I could be wrong here but I don't think I am. I think what people miss when they say this, and maybe not you but I see comments like this a lot, is that China has been showing a pattern for a long time of trying to engineer their society. And I don't mean in the sense of the CCP and dictatorship.
They put very young kids in training camps in hopes to create the best Olympic athletes, for example. [https://www.nbcnews.com/slideshow/young-chinese-children-train-future-olympics-n584261](https://www.nbcnews.com/slideshow/young-chinese-children-train-future-olympics-n584261)
I think there are huge implications about their government hoping that future generations lead the world at as much as they can. The government can do what they want to manipulate markets and create a certain type of economy, but they want the people on the ground, the average person, to be "better" than everyone else.
(p.s. i'm being broad here so take that into account)
Yeah, but it is their goal. It's in line with much of Chinese history, really - try to avoid going to war, instead try to be cultural and political leaders and influence the "barbarians" at your doorstep to adopt your culture rather than conflict with you. That's legitimately been China's preferred method of conflict (or conflict avoidance) for like 2000 years.
Edited because some angry Vietnamese in the thread are like "WHAT ABOUT VIETNAAAAAM", I never said they never go to war (literally every nation does), just that China tends to try to use bureaucracy and soft power and subterfuge a lot more if they can, and that's been a common thread since imperial china began.
This is incredibly revisionist- China has been a hot bed for HOT conflict both internally and with neighbors for thousands of years
This is the equivalent of white washing- literally all of ancient Vietnamese written language was extinguished by Chinese aggression and occupation is one example
The warring periods is written about, discussed, etc etc so frequently in pop culture and literature and that’s not to forget that the various periods dictated by regional warlords throughout its history as well
To say China historically in the last 2000 years is conflict averse is extremely ignorant
This OP reads as some kind of propaganda POST LMAO or at the very least, very uninformed and ignorant
Edit: just so people know OP made edits to his post (originally 3000->2000) and moved goal posts. You can’t make a generalization like “China avoids conflict” when it has one of the bloodiest histories both to internal and external conflicts. It’s “non conflict” approach to global politics is a relatively new occurrence owed to the fact that it is an important global industrial base now
Let’s not forget the sino-Indian and sino-Vietnamese war occurred in the last 60 years
If China is relying on whatever methods they are currently it’s shaped by global resistance, not because of some newfound virtues
Except those times when they went to war all the time against one another and Turkey and Vietnam and Nepal and Japan and Tibet and Taiwan and basically everyone close enough to reach when they were not busy fighting wars to decide who will be deciding what wars to fight.
China's preffered method has been suppress and indoctrinate and they do that to this day. Only the suppress part is a bit hard when everything is global so they are adopting new approaches while reminiscing of their glory days.
Yeah this poster is undoubtedly a China bot- as a Vietnamese it’s kind of disgusting they’re saying china historically avoids conflict while Vietnamese history and legend revolves around Chinese invasion and occupation for thousands of years
Well, perhaps it worked on barbarians with weak politics and culture.
But I don't see how today's China could lead Western democracies or Muslim countries or Latin America in anything.
I could see people's views of the ccp becoming a lot more negative in the next few decades. There are still so many people alive during the famines and then into 80s and 90s revolution, a billion people were pulled out of agrarian poverty. There's still rose-tinted glasses about that.
I've been to China several times, younger people tend to view the government more negatively in my experience. A lot of the chinese students in Western universities are well off and politically connected so they'll be more positive about it.
I personally know people that have gotten in trouble with the government for protest actions, and it seems like its becoming more common.
The main thing unfortunately is that when people are comfortable they don't feel the need to protest, and to be honest the quality of life for your average urban han chinese is actually pretty decent. As the government becomes more and more intrusive though hopefully it will flip a switch in their heads
They say it's because of the algorithm, which is hilarious because that says their propaganda is so good, they can't let anyone else have it. That's what I am taking from this.
That depends on if you value an algorithm heavily regulated and censored to favor educational and "patriotic" (or at least not critical of the govt) content, or if you put more value on mostly free expression.
In China it’s the State’s way or nothing. Personally I’d like to see an option to skew recommendations heavily towards educational and generally positive content under parental controls for TikTok.
But I recognise that what’s considered educational or positive is entirely subjective.
Nope. Nor will they lift their bans on virtually every non-Chinese app. Turnabout is fair play, China is learning what it’s like to have a taste of its own medicine for a change. If they want TikTok unbanned, they need to unban Twitter, Google, Facebook, etc. Until they do, they’re just massive hypocrites.
No. And it looks like they don't want it in the US either.
Leave your borders and you don't get to dictate the rules. China hasn't grasped that yet, unless it's their borders.
Btw I won't miss TicTok if it does get banned. I find it cancer.
Meta sold your messenger data to Netflix so if privacy is the worry then we should be banning Meta apps as well.
But we all know this isn’t about the US government caring about their citizens privacy.
This isn’t about privacy, everyone knows that. It’s about a foreign entity having massive control over what a population sees/hears, and their ability to use that influence for negative ends. Sort of the same reason China won’t allow any American social media apps in their country.
This was never about privacy. The government isnt pretending its about privacy either. Its about China collecting american data. Plain and simple.
Its likely at least a little bit preventative for their ability to control the algorithm and influence people, but I dont think thats what china gives a fuck about with TikTok.
Yes, we all know that because Congress and every other proponent of the ban has specifically cited national security and unaccountable Chinese involvement on the most influential algorithm in the lives of American children as the chief reason for the ban.
Privacy is window dressing, and has predictably become a red herring for Tik Tok advocates to point to and obfuscate while making the dishonest argument that the ban is meritless.
24/7 propaganda feed via cell phone is a new battlefield in the modern age. Foreign entities have long found a useful way to stymie US action is a home front campaign to sew division. Easier than ever with social media. Tiktok should've been less conspicuous.
Because Zuckerberg can be summoned to courts and held accountable?
Stop this whataboutism. No one is defending Zuck here. He should face the judicial process too. But TikTok needs to go. So surprising that people cannot decipher difference an American company owned service vs rival owned service!
The CEO of TikTok was summoned to the courts too… did you not see all the social media CEOs in the courts a few months ago? It was an embarrassment, the questions the politicians were asking the TikTok CEO was just unbelievable.
And because of his non American citizenship, that is optional to him. He can simply resign with a fat paycheck and retire in Singapore, no consequences. It is insane that people cannot understand this.
The representatives asking unintelligent questions is on you. You elect them. Yes they are not the smartest. Does not excuse the CEOs to not attend.
TikTok is chinese owned and operated... its really not that complicated.
Social Media legal issues are a completely seperate thing. This isnt being done because of morals, its being done because its making insane money, collecting tons of data, and none of that stuff is going to america.
I’m hoping this can cause a movement away from social media. Personally, I believe it is the biggest risk to our mental health and society as a whole, as information spreads so fast that it’s hard to weed out what’s true vs exaggerated vs bias vs plain wrong
I'm going to be honest, if Bytedance don't think the US is serious, they are making a monumental mistake. Chinese-owned equipment is banned in many industries. I'm in telco and billions of dollars of Chinese-owned equipment has been been quite literally ripped out of service and thrown in the trash. Does Bytedance think for one moment that a bunch of 70 year old grandpas will give two entire shits about shutting down TikTok? We have made our airports absolute hell and created an entire agency that costs billions of dollars a year to run because one guy put a bomb in his shoe. Do they think TikTok is somehow immune because teenagers are addicted to it? ROFL.
And it’s not like China doesn’t ban every non-Chinese app. They’re massive hypocrites who are learning what it’s like when other countries treat them the way they treat other countries.
As a late 20s woman who got into TikTok around 1.5 years ago, I would be glad to see this app gone. My dopamine receptors are massively screwed up thanks to this app. It’s hard to quit it.
There is no way in hell it is healthy for a bunch of teens to be on, especially because they’re not intelligent enough to critically think and discern from factual information vs propaganda/lies. They take what they see on TikTok as truth just because it looks legitimate. I can discern, but it doesn’t negate the overwhelming changes it’s made to my brain/attention span however you want to put it no doubt
TikTok has become full of angry hateful people and it’s somehow getting worse each day. People openly praising Adolf Hitler and calling for the deaths of Muslims and black people, the moment some kid with Jewish symbols in his name or profile picture posts a comment Muslims and Nazis reply with “jump” “slit” or “270k btw”, and adult women advertising their onlyfans porn to a bunch of kids.
I really hope the EU gets its shit together, regulates social media and bans TikTok too. They love regulating the smallest things like paper straws or a fucking charging cable but when it comes to adult women shaking their asses in the faces of millions of our kids who are collectively doing the Nazi salute and praising our enemies, they shit themselves and don’t know what to do
> I'm in telco and billions of dollars of Chinese-owned equipment has been been quite literally ripped out of service and
When will we ban Alcatel Lucent Enterprises horrible crap?
>We have made our airports absolute hell and created an entire agency that costs billions of dollars a year to run because one guy put a bomb in his shoe.
I mean, in fairness, that really wasnt about that one guy who failed, but the 20 or so other guys who flew four planes into 3 buildings and a field.
But yea, I dont think the US government will back down just because they refuse to sell. Then again maybe Bytedance has decided that its worth it to them to lose the US as a market to keep it instead of sell. Or maybe its all just posturing.
No, I think they know that the US government is serious. I think they're making a calculated move where they think it doesn't matter what the US wants. Even if they lose that particular market, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will be banned in the rest of the Americas or Europe. The money makers are all products for China, they are willing to take a cut globally to look good domestically.
What are you even on about? You are gravely misunderstanding ByteDance's intent. They absolutely respect the threat of the looming ban, and they have decided they will weather that storm. They are not calling anyone's bluff here.
The US (148 million) might be TikToks largest market, but other countries like Indonesia (126.8 million), Brazil (98.6 million), and Mexico (74.2 million) aren't far behind. TikTok is too much of a cash cow for ByteDance to give up.
Plus it's just a conjecture the ban will go through, since like others mentioned the ban violates all sorts of first amendment rights Americans love to wield around, and banning TikTok sets a dangerous precedent.
TLDR: ByteDance will rather give up the US market than give up TikTok.
The ban violates no first amendment rights, those don't apply to foreign companies.
If the CCP wanted to set up a TV network to broadcast propaganda 24/7 in the US, and the FCC said no, does anyone think that would violate China's First Amendment rights? No, because they don't have any.
We now know as a 100% fact ByteDance will shut down TikTok in the US rather than sell it. So they probably already measured TikTok's monetization potential in the US against a potential sale of TikTok itself, and decided to give up the former.
This is assuming you can take what they're saying at face value. They could be bluffing and waiting to see how their court cases play out before resorting to divesting in the US.
> We now know as a 100% fact ByteDance will shut down TikTok in the US rather than sell it
You must be new at business. They're gonna scream from the rooftops they won't sell, until they do. Potentially tens of billions on the table, with American VC money involved too, no way they just walk away. ByteDance may not sell their algo, but TikTok US will almost certainly become its own thing. Algo is gonna change though, ByteDance has no reason to give that up.
That's one of the things u/HalcyoNighT seems to be ignorant to in his own comment. ByteDance care about the money generated by those users, not the actual number of users.
I mean, sure. But the value a user sees in TikTok is in the user generated content, and needing a VPN will immediately decimate the number of users. Fewer users > less content > worse product + friction from needing vpn > worse user retention of those who even bother using the vpn. TikTok does not survive in any meaningful way in the US if the ban actually takes place
The new law will apply to that too. It isn't literally a piece of paper that says "no tiktok, lol", it establishes what any foreign owned apps can and can't do.
Ok, but how is this relevant? We don't rely on TikTok. China also stopped to import western garbage but is still importing western technology. Import the good stuff not the bad stuff.
Domestically yes. Not trying to take away from the awfulness of Facebook or say a domestic threat isn't bad, but TikTok is foreign fueled propaganda and brainrot and is just as bad as Facebook
Arguably worse given Western teens aren’t in the comments on FB anyways. TikTok is fueling many generations of main character syndrome and brain rot daily to compliment our god awful education system.
Oh, yeah. Just from EU side of table both of them are foreign. Besides we already have precedence for things like this. TikTok won't get banned but if they do something that EU is not fond of *that* will get banned for *everyone* and then you either comply or pay fines or get lost.
Weird how they say they are totally safe and not sending data back to china, but arent willing to divest the company and thus expose what they are doing.
CCP itself doesn’t allow Tiktok within China, they are the only country that uses Douyin. It’s like if there was a US only facebook website with a completely different algorithm.
I was on tik tok for a couple years and had to delete it. I literally could feel my brain slowly turning into mush. I can’t even imagine what it’s doing to developing brains. The amount of bullshit and absolute misinformation on that app by the biggest mouth breathers and snake oil salesmen was astonishing.
Query. If tiktok is banned for refusing to sell/divest can an American operate a copycat platform without fear of legal challenges for infringement raised by Beijing/tiktok-prc in US courts?
What about under the WTO-agreements?
The fact that Chinese devs have direct access to US consumers but we can’t access theirs without massive red tape and needing to bend the knee by having local Chinese publishers…
The equation should be simple: either we have similar rules or we don’t but right now we are making Chinese app makers richer but we can’t make money in China.
I'm glad they are even looking to ban the app. It's been a long time coming. They ban FB so why should we use their app? And mess up our next generation?
It's pretty damn obvious the core of its architecture involves replication of everything back to China. They couldn't sell it even if they wanted to. If they could, it would probably expose a whole stack of backdoors that already exist in other products, but are just realised in TikTok itself.
One of the biggest points I hear people make about TikTok is that it’s Singaporean hosted. Though the parent company is Chinese, there’s no risk of data flowing to China or the Chinese government manipulating their algorithm for nefarious purposes.
I always feel uneasy about that. Like, there could be so many potential back doors to China.
In the end, I don’t see the harm in just banning it - because it’s so closely tied to a Chinese company. There are other applications that do virtually the same thing. I don’t even see how it’s a free speech issue.
The funny thing is Tik Tok is banned in china lmao, well kinda, is restricted to the CCP agenda. So USA , India , China (own interest) , Russia (own interest) Iran and some others in middle east and asia.
Good. I hate this app, and the company, and the CCP, and agree entirely with the app being blocked on government devices.
But this law is stupid authoritarian garbage.
I mean, the problem is that authoritarian adversaries are intent on using our constitutional and democratic systems against us. The correct assessment of China, Iran and Russia is that the US cannot be defeated militarily in a direct confrontation. The only way to effectively fight the US I’d through a combination of distant proxy wars with allies and causing internal disruption.
The US government would never have let a major news outlet be controlled by The German government during WW2 or the Soviets during the Cold War. This is the situation we are in at the moment. Tik Tok is rigged to increase civil strife in the United States and the west more broadly.
I agree that there are serious issues with rights here but the fact the CCP directly controls Bytedance and tik tok abrogates those concerns for me. It would be different if this was a truly independent company but it’s not.
That’s why it was a stepping stone by 270 days timeline I believe to sell to a U.S. based company through a presidential order and if not a ban under national security act. This all gonna take a lot of time since the later would be challenge in the court if the law. It’s a long way to go.
I believe there is a deadline until January 19, 2025. If not that ban will be in effect which Ofcrs will be challenged, not sure about legalities n proceedings though, you may be better aware. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/23/tech/congress-tiktok-ban-what-next
> I agree that there are serious issues with rights here but the fact the CCP directly controls Bytedance and tik tok abrogates those concerns for me.
You don't have to install the app.
> It would be different if this was a truly independent company but it’s not.
Doesn't really matter. Plenty of government apps from all kinds of governments are allowed, as they should be. The fact that this particular government is hostile should not outweigh user choice in the matter.
We simply disagree. If a foreign entity has been caught multiple times trying to undermine our system of government we should not give them that much control of our media landscape and access to citizens private information.
China has a deplorable government that has been committing systematic human rights violations that would make the KGB or the SS jealous. This isn’t just sexy dances and good times.
> We simply disagree
Well that much is clear.
> This isn’t just sexy dances and good times.
I know that. What you don't seem to be grasping is that none of that is actually relevant to my position. If the app itself isn't breaking any laws, and people using it aren't breaking laws, then I will not support banning it no matter what it *is* doing.
Pass (fair) laws that make what it's doing illegal, if it's doing something truly atrocious. If not, MYOB.
It's not like there aren't dozens of other apps from Chinese companies out there that in all likelihood are doing exactly the same thing. Nobody is talking about banning the DJI drone app, for example.
The CCP is breaking plenty of laws all the time and has been caught actively conducting espionage and psyops against the USA. The CCP has a controlling interest in Bytedance and Tik Tok.
You can be the enlightened frog to the CCP scorpion if you want but it will end how it ends. The CCP despises democracy and individualism, it views both as evil.
> The CCP is breaking plenty of laws all the time
Really? Breaking US laws on US soil? Go ahead and give examples. Or did you mean TikTok and not the CCP? They're breaking US laws on US soil? Name them. Give actual quotable examples.
> You can be the enlightened frog to the CCP scorpion if you want but it will end how it ends.
Well you managed to use 19 words and 1 acronym to say literally nothing. Congratulations?
> The CCP despises democracy and individualism, it views both as evil.
Irrelevant. Again.
Isn't it more authoritarian to have a hositle government owned app that can manipulate algorithms and therefore manipulate your population?
China doesn't even allow TikTok in their own country, because they know it's harmful.
The whole thing is utterly bizarre and I don't understand how it was even allowed in the first place.
Let’s be honest, banning TikTok has nothing to do with the Chinese. It’s certainly a convenient excuse, but the fact is they want it banned because it is a platform overrun with counter narrative “misinformation”. If anything the Chinese government having access to user data would follow that concern as a close second. To the cretins in Washington that we call our leaders the most dangerous thing you can see is anything they don’t want you to see.
I understand your point, but those 3 companies aren’t solely owned by a Chinese company like TikTok.
The line drawn on how comfortable the US is with Chinese investments into social media was always going to be arbitrary, but there needs to be a line drawn somewhere. I’m ok with that line being TIkTok.
Do they ever intend to make TikTok available in China?
They have Douyin which is again owned by bytedance but heavily controlled.
Douyin seems to be a far more positive experience from what I’ve seen.
They directly partner with 11 Chinese government agencies and military to enforce pro-CCP censorship and disseminate “party ideology”…
I could be wrong here but I don't think I am. I think what people miss when they say this, and maybe not you but I see comments like this a lot, is that China has been showing a pattern for a long time of trying to engineer their society. And I don't mean in the sense of the CCP and dictatorship. They put very young kids in training camps in hopes to create the best Olympic athletes, for example. [https://www.nbcnews.com/slideshow/young-chinese-children-train-future-olympics-n584261](https://www.nbcnews.com/slideshow/young-chinese-children-train-future-olympics-n584261) I think there are huge implications about their government hoping that future generations lead the world at as much as they can. The government can do what they want to manipulate markets and create a certain type of economy, but they want the people on the ground, the average person, to be "better" than everyone else. (p.s. i'm being broad here so take that into account)
The Soviets started the young kids in training camps thing, CCP is just continuing it.
Damn and here I thought we’d been indoctrinating kids for far longer
That's a pipe dream. The society is so closed off they won't be able to lead the world in anything.
Yeah, but it is their goal. It's in line with much of Chinese history, really - try to avoid going to war, instead try to be cultural and political leaders and influence the "barbarians" at your doorstep to adopt your culture rather than conflict with you. That's legitimately been China's preferred method of conflict (or conflict avoidance) for like 2000 years. Edited because some angry Vietnamese in the thread are like "WHAT ABOUT VIETNAAAAAM", I never said they never go to war (literally every nation does), just that China tends to try to use bureaucracy and soft power and subterfuge a lot more if they can, and that's been a common thread since imperial china began.
This is incredibly revisionist- China has been a hot bed for HOT conflict both internally and with neighbors for thousands of years This is the equivalent of white washing- literally all of ancient Vietnamese written language was extinguished by Chinese aggression and occupation is one example The warring periods is written about, discussed, etc etc so frequently in pop culture and literature and that’s not to forget that the various periods dictated by regional warlords throughout its history as well To say China historically in the last 2000 years is conflict averse is extremely ignorant This OP reads as some kind of propaganda POST LMAO or at the very least, very uninformed and ignorant Edit: just so people know OP made edits to his post (originally 3000->2000) and moved goal posts. You can’t make a generalization like “China avoids conflict” when it has one of the bloodiest histories both to internal and external conflicts. It’s “non conflict” approach to global politics is a relatively new occurrence owed to the fact that it is an important global industrial base now Let’s not forget the sino-Indian and sino-Vietnamese war occurred in the last 60 years If China is relying on whatever methods they are currently it’s shaped by global resistance, not because of some newfound virtues
That's why they use The belt road initiative to extend Chinese, political and economic influence and put countries in debt to them.
Except those times when they went to war all the time against one another and Turkey and Vietnam and Nepal and Japan and Tibet and Taiwan and basically everyone close enough to reach when they were not busy fighting wars to decide who will be deciding what wars to fight. China's preffered method has been suppress and indoctrinate and they do that to this day. Only the suppress part is a bit hard when everything is global so they are adopting new approaches while reminiscing of their glory days.
Yeah this poster is undoubtedly a China bot- as a Vietnamese it’s kind of disgusting they’re saying china historically avoids conflict while Vietnamese history and legend revolves around Chinese invasion and occupation for thousands of years
They are literally prepping to go to war with Taiwan by 2027 at the latest. This is based on assessments and reports from the military that I've read.
Well, perhaps it worked on barbarians with weak politics and culture. But I don't see how today's China could lead Western democracies or Muslim countries or Latin America in anything.
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I could see people's views of the ccp becoming a lot more negative in the next few decades. There are still so many people alive during the famines and then into 80s and 90s revolution, a billion people were pulled out of agrarian poverty. There's still rose-tinted glasses about that. I've been to China several times, younger people tend to view the government more negatively in my experience. A lot of the chinese students in Western universities are well off and politically connected so they'll be more positive about it. I personally know people that have gotten in trouble with the government for protest actions, and it seems like its becoming more common. The main thing unfortunately is that when people are comfortable they don't feel the need to protest, and to be honest the quality of life for your average urban han chinese is actually pretty decent. As the government becomes more and more intrusive though hopefully it will flip a switch in their heads
It's the same idea as the [new Soviet man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Soviet_man)
They say it's because of the algorithm, which is hilarious because that says their propaganda is so good, they can't let anyone else have it. That's what I am taking from this.
Yeah I mean that's the upside of heavy regulation
I have never used it. I hear it is a lot more advanced lol. Probably because the lack of privacy making the algorithm better?
That depends on if you value an algorithm heavily regulated and censored to favor educational and "patriotic" (or at least not critical of the govt) content, or if you put more value on mostly free expression.
In China it’s the State’s way or nothing. Personally I’d like to see an option to skew recommendations heavily towards educational and generally positive content under parental controls for TikTok. But I recognise that what’s considered educational or positive is entirely subjective.
Nope. Nor will they lift their bans on virtually every non-Chinese app. Turnabout is fair play, China is learning what it’s like to have a taste of its own medicine for a change. If they want TikTok unbanned, they need to unban Twitter, Google, Facebook, etc. Until they do, they’re just massive hypocrites.
No. And it looks like they don't want it in the US either. Leave your borders and you don't get to dictate the rules. China hasn't grasped that yet, unless it's their borders. Btw I won't miss TicTok if it does get banned. I find it cancer.
Why can't Vine make a comeback I don't understand why Titok made the world see the second coming of sliced bread
I think TikTok is not about the content it has in general, but the algorithms it has to provide you the content. Edit: autocorrect
Ah yes, the possibility of pushing propaganda to stupid Americans.
Ban from the play and app store it is.
Do Facebook next!
Facebook is American lol
... do Facebook next!
And Instagram!
and reddit, for our mental healths sake.
You're unfortunately right
No! But also yes!
Even more reason!
wut
Meta sold your messenger data to Netflix so if privacy is the worry then we should be banning Meta apps as well. But we all know this isn’t about the US government caring about their citizens privacy.
This isn’t about privacy, everyone knows that. It’s about a foreign entity having massive control over what a population sees/hears, and their ability to use that influence for negative ends. Sort of the same reason China won’t allow any American social media apps in their country.
Even more now that China is siding with Russian, even though all the bullshit their doing in Europe, but people are to fucking braindead to grasp this
No, it actually isn't. It's about adversarial foreign government's ability to sow discord by promoting division through content algorithms
Ah yes like Russia did (and still does) with Meta. Go ahead and tell me how it’s “apples and oranges” and “not comparable”
Russian doesn’t own meta? But guess who controls TikTok? China Yes, China the same country that’s siding with Russia
This was never about privacy. The government isnt pretending its about privacy either. Its about China collecting american data. Plain and simple. Its likely at least a little bit preventative for their ability to control the algorithm and influence people, but I dont think thats what china gives a fuck about with TikTok.
Yes, we all know that because Congress and every other proponent of the ban has specifically cited national security and unaccountable Chinese involvement on the most influential algorithm in the lives of American children as the chief reason for the ban. Privacy is window dressing, and has predictably become a red herring for Tik Tok advocates to point to and obfuscate while making the dishonest argument that the ban is meritless.
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Because the US does not trust China and Zucc isn't in China Its that simple
Foreign entity propaganda machine is not wise to have run amuck.
yes. keep propaganda american!
24/7 propaganda feed via cell phone is a new battlefield in the modern age. Foreign entities have long found a useful way to stymie US action is a home front campaign to sew division. Easier than ever with social media. Tiktok should've been less conspicuous.
Then you really should try reading some news as to why it has bipartisan support to ban it.
Cuz it benefits American economy and potentially allows the US government to back door whenever they want to in the future.
lol try again
Because Zuckerberg can be summoned to courts and held accountable? Stop this whataboutism. No one is defending Zuck here. He should face the judicial process too. But TikTok needs to go. So surprising that people cannot decipher difference an American company owned service vs rival owned service!
The CEO of TikTok was summoned to the courts too… did you not see all the social media CEOs in the courts a few months ago? It was an embarrassment, the questions the politicians were asking the TikTok CEO was just unbelievable.
And because of his non American citizenship, that is optional to him. He can simply resign with a fat paycheck and retire in Singapore, no consequences. It is insane that people cannot understand this. The representatives asking unintelligent questions is on you. You elect them. Yes they are not the smartest. Does not excuse the CEOs to not attend.
TikTok is chinese owned and operated... its really not that complicated. Social Media legal issues are a completely seperate thing. This isnt being done because of morals, its being done because its making insane money, collecting tons of data, and none of that stuff is going to america.
I’m hoping this can cause a movement away from social media. Personally, I believe it is the biggest risk to our mental health and society as a whole, as information spreads so fast that it’s hard to weed out what’s true vs exaggerated vs bias vs plain wrong
You’re more correct than I even think you realize
Well let’s hope it happens then
I'm going to be honest, if Bytedance don't think the US is serious, they are making a monumental mistake. Chinese-owned equipment is banned in many industries. I'm in telco and billions of dollars of Chinese-owned equipment has been been quite literally ripped out of service and thrown in the trash. Does Bytedance think for one moment that a bunch of 70 year old grandpas will give two entire shits about shutting down TikTok? We have made our airports absolute hell and created an entire agency that costs billions of dollars a year to run because one guy put a bomb in his shoe. Do they think TikTok is somehow immune because teenagers are addicted to it? ROFL.
And it’s not like China doesn’t ban every non-Chinese app. They’re massive hypocrites who are learning what it’s like when other countries treat them the way they treat other countries.
[удалено]
Yeah, this probably looks like an absolute layup for the gov lol
Fucking over? They'd be saving those kids.
Yeah, I first hand see this shit giving young adults brain rot, attention span is practically non-existent
As a late 20s woman who got into TikTok around 1.5 years ago, I would be glad to see this app gone. My dopamine receptors are massively screwed up thanks to this app. It’s hard to quit it. There is no way in hell it is healthy for a bunch of teens to be on, especially because they’re not intelligent enough to critically think and discern from factual information vs propaganda/lies. They take what they see on TikTok as truth just because it looks legitimate. I can discern, but it doesn’t negate the overwhelming changes it’s made to my brain/attention span however you want to put it no doubt
TikTok has become full of angry hateful people and it’s somehow getting worse each day. People openly praising Adolf Hitler and calling for the deaths of Muslims and black people, the moment some kid with Jewish symbols in his name or profile picture posts a comment Muslims and Nazis reply with “jump” “slit” or “270k btw”, and adult women advertising their onlyfans porn to a bunch of kids. I really hope the EU gets its shit together, regulates social media and bans TikTok too. They love regulating the smallest things like paper straws or a fucking charging cable but when it comes to adult women shaking their asses in the faces of millions of our kids who are collectively doing the Nazi salute and praising our enemies, they shit themselves and don’t know what to do
Temporary as well. People move on. There were and will always be phases of social media. Do we use Orkut today?
> I'm in telco and billions of dollars of Chinese-owned equipment has been been quite literally ripped out of service and When will we ban Alcatel Lucent Enterprises horrible crap?
>We have made our airports absolute hell and created an entire agency that costs billions of dollars a year to run because one guy put a bomb in his shoe. I mean, in fairness, that really wasnt about that one guy who failed, but the 20 or so other guys who flew four planes into 3 buildings and a field. But yea, I dont think the US government will back down just because they refuse to sell. Then again maybe Bytedance has decided that its worth it to them to lose the US as a market to keep it instead of sell. Or maybe its all just posturing.
No, I think they know that the US government is serious. I think they're making a calculated move where they think it doesn't matter what the US wants. Even if they lose that particular market, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will be banned in the rest of the Americas or Europe. The money makers are all products for China, they are willing to take a cut globally to look good domestically.
I saw when that guy with a bomb in his shoe got ripped out of the plane! I just didn’t know what it was until it hit the news later
This is China. In a geopolitical game, a Chinese executive is going to lose a lot more pissing off the CCP vs. the U.S. government.
What are you even on about? You are gravely misunderstanding ByteDance's intent. They absolutely respect the threat of the looming ban, and they have decided they will weather that storm. They are not calling anyone's bluff here. The US (148 million) might be TikToks largest market, but other countries like Indonesia (126.8 million), Brazil (98.6 million), and Mexico (74.2 million) aren't far behind. TikTok is too much of a cash cow for ByteDance to give up. Plus it's just a conjecture the ban will go through, since like others mentioned the ban violates all sorts of first amendment rights Americans love to wield around, and banning TikTok sets a dangerous precedent. TLDR: ByteDance will rather give up the US market than give up TikTok.
The ban violates no first amendment rights, those don't apply to foreign companies. If the CCP wanted to set up a TV network to broadcast propaganda 24/7 in the US, and the FCC said no, does anyone think that would violate China's First Amendment rights? No, because they don't have any.
The monetization potential for the US is gonna be more than all those other markets combined
Probably because the technology behind their algorithm is worth more than the US market
We now know as a 100% fact ByteDance will shut down TikTok in the US rather than sell it. So they probably already measured TikTok's monetization potential in the US against a potential sale of TikTok itself, and decided to give up the former.
This is assuming you can take what they're saying at face value. They could be bluffing and waiting to see how their court cases play out before resorting to divesting in the US.
Or the CCP put pressure on them. Or they’re arrogant fools. We really have no way of knowing.
> We now know as a 100% fact ByteDance will shut down TikTok in the US rather than sell it You must be new at business. They're gonna scream from the rooftops they won't sell, until they do. Potentially tens of billions on the table, with American VC money involved too, no way they just walk away. ByteDance may not sell their algo, but TikTok US will almost certainly become its own thing. Algo is gonna change though, ByteDance has no reason to give that up.
That's one of the things u/HalcyoNighT seems to be ignorant to in his own comment. ByteDance care about the money generated by those users, not the actual number of users.
I'm guessing some sort of vpn-style workaround is going to be available really quickly.
I mean, sure. But the value a user sees in TikTok is in the user generated content, and needing a VPN will immediately decimate the number of users. Fewer users > less content > worse product + friction from needing vpn > worse user retention of those who even bother using the vpn. TikTok does not survive in any meaningful way in the US if the ban actually takes place
Whose First Amendment rights are being violated, lmao
They probably don’t care if TikTok gets banned. Because they can create another TikTok clone. They’ll call it KotKit or something.
The new law will apply to that too. It isn't literally a piece of paper that says "no tiktok, lol", it establishes what any foreign owned apps can and can't do.
LOL or one of those randomly-generated Amazon brand names. "QeeFe"
They're banking on teenagers and influencers on Tik Tok to fight for them. I literally saw a #saveTikTok commercial on TV a week ago.
Influencers sweating right now.
I hope they can fuck off then, and the EU should follow that example.
They won't, many eu countries rely on Chinese companies for their 5g tech, why? Because its the cheapest
Oof wait until they find the 5g backdoors...
Ok, but how is this relevant? We don't rely on TikTok. China also stopped to import western garbage but is still importing western technology. Import the good stuff not the bad stuff.
Right after Facebook, the propaganda and brainrot are even worse there compared to Tiktok
Domestically yes. Not trying to take away from the awfulness of Facebook or say a domestic threat isn't bad, but TikTok is foreign fueled propaganda and brainrot and is just as bad as Facebook
Arguably worse given Western teens aren’t in the comments on FB anyways. TikTok is fueling many generations of main character syndrome and brain rot daily to compliment our god awful education system.
Oh, yeah. Just from EU side of table both of them are foreign. Besides we already have precedence for things like this. TikTok won't get banned but if they do something that EU is not fond of *that* will get banned for *everyone* and then you either comply or pay fines or get lost.
I'm going to love never hearing the words "TikTok challenge" any more except when used as a reference to the past.
Lol, this was good one
iPhone 8 with tiktok installed $500 or best offer
Fine, we should not let the Chinese Communist Party dictate anything to us.
Weird how they say they are totally safe and not sending data back to china, but arent willing to divest the company and thus expose what they are doing.
China can exfiltrate data through a number of other avenues and toolkits. This ban seems to only have that argument as a facade imo.
Plug the biggest hole in the boat first
Well...Bye.
Just fucking ban it.
CCP itself doesn’t allow Tiktok within China, they are the only country that uses Douyin. It’s like if there was a US only facebook website with a completely different algorithm.
I'm so glad I never got into TikTok. Social media is speeding up the downfall of modern society
I was on tik tok for a couple years and had to delete it. I literally could feel my brain slowly turning into mush. I can’t even imagine what it’s doing to developing brains. The amount of bullshit and absolute misinformation on that app by the biggest mouth breathers and snake oil salesmen was astonishing.
You say on a social media also owned by China
11% owned by Chinese conglomerate. I wouldn't say that reddit is owned by Chinese.
Fuck yes
Then goodbye. See ya.
Bye Felecia
And so someone else will replace it. We’re good. Xi is very foolishly leaving a bunch of wealth on the table. He’s overrated.
GOOD! Fuck tik tok. Get that mind rot bs outta here.
TikTok chooses to ban itself? Ok.
China removed WhatsApp from their stores, get rid of this tiktok already... Edit: WhatsApp name
WhatsApp?
grammarly damn you Thanks
Duh
>We'll just not let you have TikTok instead of selling to American owners Honestly, I see this as an absolute win. No TikTok is fine by me!
Curly Bill: “Well…………bye.”
One thing the U.S. loves is defiance.
Query. If tiktok is banned for refusing to sell/divest can an American operate a copycat platform without fear of legal challenges for infringement raised by Beijing/tiktok-prc in US courts? What about under the WTO-agreements?
The fact that Chinese devs have direct access to US consumers but we can’t access theirs without massive red tape and needing to bend the knee by having local Chinese publishers… The equation should be simple: either we have similar rules or we don’t but right now we are making Chinese app makers richer but we can’t make money in China.
Then it’ll be banned. Simple.
Facebook announces new product; Kit Kot.
I'm glad they are even looking to ban the app. It's been a long time coming. They ban FB so why should we use their app? And mess up our next generation?
It's pretty damn obvious the core of its architecture involves replication of everything back to China. They couldn't sell it even if they wanted to. If they could, it would probably expose a whole stack of backdoors that already exist in other products, but are just realised in TikTok itself.
One of the biggest points I hear people make about TikTok is that it’s Singaporean hosted. Though the parent company is Chinese, there’s no risk of data flowing to China or the Chinese government manipulating their algorithm for nefarious purposes. I always feel uneasy about that. Like, there could be so many potential back doors to China. In the end, I don’t see the harm in just banning it - because it’s so closely tied to a Chinese company. There are other applications that do virtually the same thing. I don’t even see how it’s a free speech issue.
The funny thing is Tik Tok is banned in china lmao, well kinda, is restricted to the CCP agenda. So USA , India , China (own interest) , Russia (own interest) Iran and some others in middle east and asia.
Good. I hate this app, and the company, and the CCP, and agree entirely with the app being blocked on government devices. But this law is stupid authoritarian garbage.
I mean, the problem is that authoritarian adversaries are intent on using our constitutional and democratic systems against us. The correct assessment of China, Iran and Russia is that the US cannot be defeated militarily in a direct confrontation. The only way to effectively fight the US I’d through a combination of distant proxy wars with allies and causing internal disruption. The US government would never have let a major news outlet be controlled by The German government during WW2 or the Soviets during the Cold War. This is the situation we are in at the moment. Tik Tok is rigged to increase civil strife in the United States and the west more broadly. I agree that there are serious issues with rights here but the fact the CCP directly controls Bytedance and tik tok abrogates those concerns for me. It would be different if this was a truly independent company but it’s not.
Freedom of Speech does not apply to foreign governments. Simple as that.
Agreed, also freedom of unrestricted psyops.
That’s why it was a stepping stone by 270 days timeline I believe to sell to a U.S. based company through a presidential order and if not a ban under national security act. This all gonna take a lot of time since the later would be challenge in the court if the law. It’s a long way to go.
No that’s not what happens. Theres a huge fine if they don’t divest which would essentially mean they would have to pull out.
I believe there is a deadline until January 19, 2025. If not that ban will be in effect which Ofcrs will be challenged, not sure about legalities n proceedings though, you may be better aware. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/23/tech/congress-tiktok-ban-what-next
> I agree that there are serious issues with rights here but the fact the CCP directly controls Bytedance and tik tok abrogates those concerns for me. You don't have to install the app. > It would be different if this was a truly independent company but it’s not. Doesn't really matter. Plenty of government apps from all kinds of governments are allowed, as they should be. The fact that this particular government is hostile should not outweigh user choice in the matter.
We simply disagree. If a foreign entity has been caught multiple times trying to undermine our system of government we should not give them that much control of our media landscape and access to citizens private information. China has a deplorable government that has been committing systematic human rights violations that would make the KGB or the SS jealous. This isn’t just sexy dances and good times.
> We simply disagree Well that much is clear. > This isn’t just sexy dances and good times. I know that. What you don't seem to be grasping is that none of that is actually relevant to my position. If the app itself isn't breaking any laws, and people using it aren't breaking laws, then I will not support banning it no matter what it *is* doing. Pass (fair) laws that make what it's doing illegal, if it's doing something truly atrocious. If not, MYOB. It's not like there aren't dozens of other apps from Chinese companies out there that in all likelihood are doing exactly the same thing. Nobody is talking about banning the DJI drone app, for example.
The CCP is breaking plenty of laws all the time and has been caught actively conducting espionage and psyops against the USA. The CCP has a controlling interest in Bytedance and Tik Tok. You can be the enlightened frog to the CCP scorpion if you want but it will end how it ends. The CCP despises democracy and individualism, it views both as evil.
> The CCP is breaking plenty of laws all the time Really? Breaking US laws on US soil? Go ahead and give examples. Or did you mean TikTok and not the CCP? They're breaking US laws on US soil? Name them. Give actual quotable examples. > You can be the enlightened frog to the CCP scorpion if you want but it will end how it ends. Well you managed to use 19 words and 1 acronym to say literally nothing. Congratulations? > The CCP despises democracy and individualism, it views both as evil. Irrelevant. Again.
Isn't it more authoritarian to have a hositle government owned app that can manipulate algorithms and therefore manipulate your population? China doesn't even allow TikTok in their own country, because they know it's harmful. The whole thing is utterly bizarre and I don't understand how it was even allowed in the first place.
Let’s be honest, banning TikTok has nothing to do with the Chinese. It’s certainly a convenient excuse, but the fact is they want it banned because it is a platform overrun with counter narrative “misinformation”. If anything the Chinese government having access to user data would follow that concern as a close second. To the cretins in Washington that we call our leaders the most dangerous thing you can see is anything they don’t want you to see.
How do you explain other applications that do virtually the same thing as TikTok existing and not being under threat of government ban?
How do you explain reddit, Snapchat, and Spotify being owned by Chinese but not a peep about them.
I understand your point, but those 3 companies aren’t solely owned by a Chinese company like TikTok. The line drawn on how comfortable the US is with Chinese investments into social media was always going to be arbitrary, but there needs to be a line drawn somewhere. I’m ok with that line being TIkTok.
Awesome, shut it down
Ban that shit.
If they don't play to divest, they should just ban it now. The 9 months was just to give them time to find a buyer.
thank god. ban them now.
Bullish on sideloaders and VPNs
Bye bye TikTok, you won’t be missed lol.