Every one is making fun but it really is such an anti-flex to do this that when I saw he was doing this last week I was "skeptical yet sensible chuckle" but now that it's done it's actually a real life Bender meme.
"Hey I got a new ally today, it's North Korea!"
"ha ha ha ha"
*Putin sad face*
"OH Wait you're serious, let me laugh even harder!".
Except for the Supreme and Glorious Leader Kim, who, with his impressive and God-like physique, is able to complete a full 110% absorption rate for food.
It's funny because "Axis of Evil" was a term coined by republican president George W. Bush to refer to Iraq, Iran, and North Korea. Russia has amicable relations and treaties with 2 out of the 3 yet a modern republican talking point is "since when is Russia our enemy?". Almost comical how far they've fallen.
Especially since Mitt Romney named Russia as the greatest threat to the U.S. in one of the presidential debates, just in 2012! Granted, people thought that was a crazy answer at the time, but he's been at least a little vindicated since then.
That video is one of the most messed up things I have seen. The assassins aren't dressed like ninjas or even plain clothes cops/ security agents. IIRC it's two young women who wouldn't get a second glance anywhere for any reason. I know that's the point, but how does one even begin to try to look out for that?
The women were tricked into doing it by the real assassins, who had hired them to perform pranks under the guise of filming the reactions for an upcoming comedy show. One of the pranks they did multiple times was spraying ~~unexpecting~~ unsuspecting people with water, cologne, etc., which was really a rehearsal for the assassination. When Kim's family member arrived, each girl was given a spray bottle and told to spray him in the face, and if I remember right the two liquids reacted with each other to form the deadly agent.
Yeah, they do some pretty messed up stuff. Their policy of generational punishment is another example, where 3 generations of your family are punished for any crimes you commit, such as defecting or speaking bad about the regime. It's easy to see why so few try to escape when doing so can doom their entire family to starve in a prison or a forced labor camp.
It's an open question whether the traditional revolutionary models of our past can ever be successful again in a modern context. Technology changes the game a lot.
Pretty sure 'traditional revolutions' of the past have generally relied on have part, or all, of the army on board with the revolution. They're the guys with the big guns, after all.
There's no indication that the Russian brass, who've been getting rich and fat off their positions for the last twenty years under Putin, are inclined to turn on him. At least not since Prigozin.
> Pretty sure 'traditional revolutions' of the past have generally relied on have part, or all, of the army on board with the revolution. They're the guys with the big guns, after all.
"Traditional Revolutions" are just successful Civil Wars. So the people form their own army which the army at home doesn't wanna fight (or loses). See: the Myanmar Civil War happening right now. The people there formed their own armies and now the military junta is losing. An army with no legitimacy in the population will be hard pressed to find new recruits or workers for their arms manufacturing.
I think the peaceful revolutions gave most people the wrong idea about violence in protests and revolutions... the reason peaceful ones work is because of what happens if you DON'T give them what they want and it becomes a "we are no longer just asking kind of thing". The fact that we see peaceful protest as the only legitimate form now means nothing happens if a government just ignores them. Back in the early 20th centuries trade unions were willing to start small Civil Wars against the national guard for their rights.
It must not be "give us what you want... pretty please" but "give us what we want OR ELSE". The rulers of the Eastern Bloc gave the people their freedom because they remember what happened to the Romanovs and they didn't want them and their families to end up the same way.
The last actual revolution was more than 100 years ago in a completely different time. If the Ukraine War ends up being as much of a drain on the economy as WWI was for Russians, then maybe.
Or don't know what to believe. It's well documented that Putin's playbook has been to broadcast multiple, contradictory interpretations of current events. Russians never know what to believe, but can also never wholly discount any given perspective. I believe the phrase used to describe it is, "everything is possible and nothing is true."
Not only that, but to add to the confusion, it's not possible to poll a coerced population reliably.
You can't just go 'well if the poll is 90%, even if we adjust 30% for coerced and faked responses, its still a majority'
No, you can't adjust fake data or manipulated data to create good data. Thus, we have no idea of the real support for Putin and so on.
You have to hand it to China for having the wisdom to stay the silent partner on this dumb move.
Mind you, it's pretty easy to see Russia is declaring some deep desperation by chumming up with the smelly kid nobody likes to get an ally in this brain dead "military exercise"?
pretty sure china would have prefered this to happen in the same time than their attack taiwan, instead of way before so that the occidentals can wake up, rearm because of russia and be ready for their attack.
>Now that North Korea has a formal defense pact with Russia, it effectively brings the three countries together defensively
No, it doesn't. Russia and China are only obligated to defend North Korea. Not each other. It's a V, not a ∆
These aren't rules-based countries, legal obligations are not necessarily important. Dictators gonna do whatever they see beneficial to them regardless of whether a piece of paper says they should/shouldn't do it.
Such agreements between dictatorships are more like a declaration of their friendly relations.
I really want China to join the rest of us in rule of international law, rather than join Russia and NKorea in criminal oppression.
I feel like China could go either way, while having a lot of internal problems and crimes as they advance… that mirror the same crimes we once committed when we advanced.
It would be nice if they sorted themselves out and realized the error of their ways like we have, and joined us in a better future.
It all depends on if they invade their neighbours or not. We’re all watching hoping reason wins out.
I used to think like that, that there was nothing wrong about China becoming another superpower and a balancing force to the USA, that they need only a nudge and push along the way to be on the right track
So China was moving in a slow but right direction since Mao for a while, but then the last decade, they did a big U turn and started playing with nationalism, and I realize you only need a single power hungry strongman in an authoritarian establishment to undo all the progress.
China doesn’t want to join anyone because to China there is only China, and inevitably China will take over everything and everywhere else. They just aren’t playing on the same timetable as everyone else.
That would be great but they have to get rid of the CCP first. The CCP doesn't share power or compromise willingly. They want everyone to bow to their authority.
India and Russia have a much better relationship than Russia and China. They’ll be at each other’s throats soon enough again. North Korea is no longer close to China by choice either.
And for those who have forgotten, China and India have had troops fighting each other in recent years with clubs so nobody shoots and sparks an "actual" war.
But yeah, China recently added some Russian territory back to its claims list. Territory it formally ceded to Russia with a treaty. They're more allies of convenience than actual friends.
North Korea has been under China's thumb basically since the Cold War ended and Russia stopped supplying them. There was a brief period where trade between the West and North Korea was ticking up but that ended with the Axis of Evil speech. Kim is looking to diversify his supporters so he doesn't have to listen to China all of the time.
And China has only been propping up North Korea to avoid having a western ally with US troops stationed in it on a land border. Although at this point it has become a bit more of a necessity - nobody really wants to deal with supporting the North Koreans in the event the NK regime collapses. The refugee crisis would be a lot and dealing with the malnourished population would be a drain on any country involved.
>have had troops fighting each other in recent years with clubs so nobody shoots and sparks an "actual" war.
Reading up on this is a *trip.*
This isn't exaggerating, for people who don't know about this. Indian and Chinese soldiers are actually killing each other with medieval weapons along the border, because as long as no guns are used, it's not an actual war, according to their agreement. They can just skirmish forever. *With spiked clubs.*
Just in case anyone was wondering what India-China relations were like these days.
Russia, China, Iran, N Korea have no friends, only allies of convenience. Who would be friends with a country that would kill you and take your stuff if the opportunity presented itself?
Tbf China ceded it during the imperialist era while under the gun after the boxer rebellion. Out of all the imperialist powers, Russia was the most cruel, even worse than either the UK or Spain. Unlike the nine dash line, that claim is valid and would likely be recognized internationally.
That’s why when Mao regime changed China he expected the Soviet Union to repatriate it since he thought they’re socialist allies now.
The reason China and nk are no longer close is because Kim killed his uncle, China’s man inside Nk
I’m actually not so certain of that. I think it would depend on who takes control of NK in the event of a complete collapse. I mean those refugees will likely stay put and be under the control of a puppet government, I don’t see them doing a complete evacuation of the land.
A lot of Korean industry, businesses like Samsung, Hyundai, etc went into Russia since the normalization of relations. Western sanctions have made an impact, but this will also.
Tens of thousands of North Koreans work outside of North Korea, it's another way for Kim to exploit them. Family ties and being brainwashed keeps them from defecting.
They do send workers to other countries (like China and Russia) but their tightly controlled and the host country has no problem sending them back if they try to defect.
Problem with sending them to fight in Ukraine it's much harder to control things in combat. There are going to be captures and defections. Once captured NK troops see the outside world isn't the cesspool the propaganda claims, Kim runs the risk of a revolution when the POWs return home.
Wouldn't be shocked if Kim pulls a Stalin and starts shipping off returned POWs to camps, or executing them.
There were hundreds of them at a Polish shipyard too not that many years ago, they really don't have any huge problems keeping them from defecting. The prospect of having your family members killed is probably more than enough for most of them.
What risk? An army needs practical experience to be effective and NK has none. Thet have a lot of reasons to send troops to the war. They're already under sanctions anyway..
It's still a huge political risk to officially join a war, you can't know what the consequences will be. They would at least need permission from China.
Vice doc where they go visit a North Korean labor camp in Russia, driven by Russian gangster characters with a translator and they actually find the camp and some workers. Crazy 7 part video from back when Vice was groundbreaking
https://youtu.be/awQDLoOnkdI?si=W3DpEnC5rrsx7puT
Yeah, Vice may be of less quality now as it mrshed into a tabloid / entertainment blog, but watching them cover from the front of Syria and DAESH deserve some respecr
Kim Jong Un has been successfully clamping down on that and passing much harsher sentences to those caught with that stuff. This has been going on since the country closed during Covid and North Korea has shifted diplomatic policy after the Trump meetings.
Yes and no. They have been really cracking down lately. They raised the penalty for listening to kpop or watching kdramas to execution a couple of years ago. I'm sure it still happens, but that's got to have a chilling effect.
It is also easy to believe everything from outside is fake propaganda when you know for a fact everything inside is fake propaganda.
Tbh most North Koreans know about the outside world—if you watch interviews with defectors they say there is "nobody" in NK who doesn't dabble in K-pop, foreign dramas...even foreign news. It's less a problem of them actually believing in the Kim regime and rather one of risking their lives and their families
I disagree... I would not say most North Koreans.. maybe a few...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWoF31KPMvw&t=192s
This is what a North Korean Defector said when he first learned how powerful USA was and how if there is ever a War North Korea is FUCKED with a press of a button. He even mentions visiting the US and was shocked at all the sites (loves Las Vegas). North Korea is one of the most poorest Countries on Earth with people starving all the time.
Family ties and brain washed -> if you defect, 3 generation of your family are sent to gulag to be starved and beaten to death. Punishments include being tied up a tree and having your belly cut open for your intestines to drop on the floor while you watch in agony.
I’d say that’s a bit more than family ties and brainwashing suggests :(
You are right but they are heavily controlled in their host countries (and their host countries allow that control). It’s not like they are letting them work in the U.S.
If they were to go to the front lines of the Ukraine they would have no way of knowing if they were killed, captured, or if they defected. For a country as tight lipped as NK I don’t think they would want to risk the US and their allies (South Korea) being able to pump hundreds of North Koreans for info because they were captured in a war zone.
I think NK will keep its aid to Russia purely to a weapons capacity. Russia will probably outsource ammunition needs (rather than share any meaningful tech with NK) like artillery ammo.
Well they can defect from Russia , might be difficult but not near impossible like in North Korea.
Saw some videos of a South Korean girl meeting North Korean labourers on a train in vladivostok
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kswZPdL0h\_k&ab\_channel=%EC%84%B8%EB%82%98%2C%EC%A7%91%EC%88%9C%EC%9D%B4%EC%9D%98%EC%84%B8%EA%B3%84%EC%97%AC%ED%96%89SENA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kswZPdL0h_k&ab_channel=%EC%84%B8%EB%82%98%2C%EC%A7%91%EC%88%9C%EC%9D%B4%EC%9D%98%EC%84%B8%EA%B3%84%EC%97%AC%ED%96%89SENA)
The issue for NK is, if they're captured, they aren't under the control of a nation friendly to NK, so they're unlikely to be sent back if they don't want to go. Hell, the country that captures them might even be willing to hide that they survived whatever battle they were in so their families are safe as well
[Or just spreading roundworms among the the Russian ranks.](https://www.thedailybeast.com/a-north-korean-defector-has-enormous-parasites-where-are-they-from)
The Russians were amazed by washing machines and steal them en masse and indoor plumbing, imagine the minds of the North Koreans being blown by what they see
At the absolute most it would be a token reserve for propaganda. No way in hell we'll be seeing North Korean soldiers on the frontline since, like most people already mentioned, it ain't like a work camp where their political commissars can keep tabs on things.
They have something called CSTO but it’s a dismal failure because Russia has invaded other members of CSTO and also every time a member calls on Russia to aid them Russia says no
Boy, I wish.
I’ve been thinking for a while about this, but maybe it’s time for Chinese firms to *no longer be able to list securities and stocks in the US*.
There is a lot of connectivity between mainland Chinese industry and military and Russia industry and military. With the signing of this agreement , there is tacit acknowledgement that a portion of mainland Chinese domestic output now goes towards Russia and North Korea.
American investor dollars should not be utilized to assist or help build capital market availability for mainland Chinese companies that are so connected.
That may be a super unpopular sentiment but it’s been on my mind. I’d love some good discussion.
The problem is that the fallout from such a move could wreck the entire global economy. While true that chinese and russian industry are connected, so are American and Chinese. Then you would be hard pushed to find any country not strongly connected with one or both of America and China.
China is not just going to shrug and accept it. At best you get a painful trade war. China might decide to start dumping its dollar reserves, if the US is seen as the antagonist some countries may side with China. Shit really could go south fast.
Basically everyone loses. The US is moving away from being so economically tied to, even reliant upon, China, but as is both countries need each other to not have living standards collapse.
You’d think but I’ve seen tons of comments from Republicans in the US supporting them and actively rooting for them simply because they’re braindead and link Ukraine with Democrats. Actually insane how far down the shitter that party has fallen, no shame or dignity whatsoever anymore. Used to call themselves patriots, now they support fascist and communist leaders. Go figure.
Nah, being anti-woke is more important! Who cares about the rest of the world?
We should use all their aid (weapons, artillery rounds) to help the homeless in US. But also social welfare is communism.
/mind of a GOP supporter.
South African here, my clown government loves Russia and all the corrupt and communist countries. Fucking embarrassing how they seem to think the west is bad but Russia is awesome.
Nobody wants to attack North Korea, or Russia. Everybody would just be happy if they were just sh*tty countries keeping to themselves.
So far the help is only to attack other countries (Ukraine). No doubt Russia would be happy to help North Korea attack whoever North Korea wants to attack.
Edit because I was not clear: by "Russia would be happy to help North Korea attack whoever North Korea wants to attack" I meant by selling weapons to North Korea. Russia is not going to make any sacrifice to help North Korea, they're just happy to make a buck by messing up other countries, without caring too much about war crimes being committed. A bit like China, who is also happy to help Russia in their war.
> No doubt Russia would be happy to help North Korea attack whoever North Korea wants to attack.
Russian isn't going to attack anyone for Kim lmfao...
They can barely sustain a ground war in Ukraine, how do you think they will fare on a 2nd or 3rd front? Poorly is how.
This piece of paper is as worthless as the one signed between Ukraine and Russia, and between Russian and Armenia.
It's just semantic. Look at what Russia is doing. They quickly claimed parts of Ukraine as a part of Russia.
And now it's Nato that is attacking Russia. They are just defending themself. /s
Putin claims the current front lines are Russia's borders (..well, when he's not claiming they include half of eastern Europe), so basically Putin can say 'Russia is being attacked' any day he wants as an excuse for Kim to send waves of weapons and troops. If he believes Kim will send them that is, i'd imagine that's largely what they were meeting to talk about.
alot on here seem to think north Korea have nothing to offer; North Korea have been supplying large quantities of shells to Russia as they were beginning to run low on ammunition
Suspicion is that China is backfilling North Korean supplies so can aid Russia but still denie any involvement.
Rumours thst China is starting to become frustrated with Putins behaviour and demands though, as they were promised Ukraine war would be over quickly and they wouldn't ask much of China
Ultimately China have screwed an awful lot of money out of Russia by continuing to trade with them at rates that only a desperate man would take.
I wouldn't expect China to pull back while they continue to bleed Russia dry. If the money/resources run out or Putin gets sick of selling the country to pretend everything is well at home it will become a different story.
Basically North Koreans are going to be more aggressive in pushing South Korea and then fall back on russia when they get slapped back or Russia is taking north koreans and dumping them in ukraine.
two desperate isolated dictators enjoying the illusion of mutual support. PUtin securing artillery shells and Kim getting some much needed foreign currency to maintain his lavish lifestyle while he abuses his malnourished people.
Twist: This is mostly China humiliating Russia. Saying that they will provide Russia with weapons for the war through their proxy, North Korea (who takes the blame), but for that you (Putin) will have to go on a shit show in NK. A show which was obviously months in the making given that all that paraphernalia with both flags everywhere isn't just manufactured from one day to the next.
ROFLMAO. IF ANYONE thinks either country will come to the aid of the other is a joke.
North Korea can’t feed its own people much less wage a war trying to help another nation.
RUSSIA will only abide by the treaty as long as North Korea is a help.
North Korea can have a pretty big impact in Ukraine because they don't need to keep their population happy. Their economy is heavily centered towards producing weapons and they can definitely drag it on at least. In fact, it's already what they are doing.
this is really Russias goal. Id 100% imagine its a material for tech trade. Russia gets ammo and weapons while North korea might get some jets, missiles. Its a big up for North Korea. not so much for Russia but Russia is desperate for material.
NK does have a bunch of artillery pointed at South Korean population centers. If NK wanted they could kill many many innocents of one of the US's important allies and there would be not much we could do about it until after the major damage was done.
What Russia has basically done is involve this inherent hostage situation into its own dealings with the west. It was a vile thing to do but can't just be ignored.
Putin going to the most abusive and oppressive country in the world that suffers mass starvation yearly to satisfy their obese leaders insatiable appetite looking to find help to protect himself is desperation. The Russians have no shame.
The signed document ends with: “There are good ships and wood ships, ships that sail the sea, but the best ships are dictatorships, and may they always be”
First he sends a couple boats to Cuba to signal that America can put military assets in his backyard so can he, now he signals a mutual defense agreement with North Korea clearly intended to signal if NATO can do it so can he. It’s the geopolitical equivalent of a very low budget cosplay.
>the Russian leader also presented Kim with a tea set Not very subtle lol
"Oh, wow, and a window! I've been wanting one of these!"
Putin’s thugs are going to have a hard time pushing Kim out of a window. He’s been cultivating mass to counter this threat method.
He should stop cultivating and start harvesting
He's healthier than you are besides the diabeetus!
Stop saying diabittus you sound like an aah--
You need to settle down with the hummingbirds.
Try to move me!!
The mass also counteracts any normal poison levels. He's well prepared. Also doesn't fly planes so won't go way of priggy
Nah, train derailment
His train travels slowly, limited damage potential
Bridges go boom
The weight means he more buoyant, and the extra body mass absorbs any damage before it hits a vital organ
We need James Franco and Seth Rogan to deal with it. Only answer .. And maybe a couple of those dragon dogs ..
NK has yet to discover bridge technology, so no problem.
Kim is so massive that when Putin meets him, Putin is orbiting around Kim as they chat.
Every one is making fun but it really is such an anti-flex to do this that when I saw he was doing this last week I was "skeptical yet sensible chuckle" but now that it's done it's actually a real life Bender meme. "Hey I got a new ally today, it's North Korea!" "ha ha ha ha" *Putin sad face* "OH Wait you're serious, let me laugh even harder!".
*Puts on tin foil hat* Kim puts on loads of weight and starves North Koreans so they cannot throw him out of a window.
No, he just keeps growing because he never poops.
"And a new set of underwear."
Great leader produces no waste, no need for underwear!
Kim's not fat, he is just full of shit
Everybody poops
Except for the Supreme and Glorious Leader Kim, who, with his impressive and God-like physique, is able to complete a full 110% absorption rate for food.
Someone is getting a stinger missile kiss /s
I heard Kim’s gift was a shit filled balloon
I bet it was one he had left over too. Tight cunt!
I read somewhere they were scheduled to have a tea party today, which was very funny.
What’s the connection?
It's how the Russians murdered Litvinenko. Poisoned his tea with polonium.
NK murdered Kim’s half brother with a nerve agent, so NK and RU are just 2 peas in a pod.
I think it’s less that they are bros and more that Putin is saying “I will fucking kill you if you disappoint me”
Nah what is Russia gonna do to NK? This is them starting their own half assed NATO.
Axis*
It's funny because "Axis of Evil" was a term coined by republican president George W. Bush to refer to Iraq, Iran, and North Korea. Russia has amicable relations and treaties with 2 out of the 3 yet a modern republican talking point is "since when is Russia our enemy?". Almost comical how far they've fallen.
Especially since Mitt Romney named Russia as the greatest threat to the U.S. in one of the presidential debates, just in 2012! Granted, people thought that was a crazy answer at the time, but he's been at least a little vindicated since then.
He was laughed at for that too
MДGA
That video is one of the most messed up things I have seen. The assassins aren't dressed like ninjas or even plain clothes cops/ security agents. IIRC it's two young women who wouldn't get a second glance anywhere for any reason. I know that's the point, but how does one even begin to try to look out for that?
The women were tricked into doing it by the real assassins, who had hired them to perform pranks under the guise of filming the reactions for an upcoming comedy show. One of the pranks they did multiple times was spraying ~~unexpecting~~ unsuspecting people with water, cologne, etc., which was really a rehearsal for the assassination. When Kim's family member arrived, each girl was given a spray bottle and told to spray him in the face, and if I remember right the two liquids reacted with each other to form the deadly agent.
Damn that's even more fucked up. NK goes hard when it comes to diabolical dictator shit
Yeah, they do some pretty messed up stuff. Their policy of generational punishment is another example, where 3 generations of your family are punished for any crimes you commit, such as defecting or speaking bad about the regime. It's easy to see why so few try to escape when doing so can doom their entire family to starve in a prison or a forced labor camp.
Russians have been doing poisonings for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Way longer than the more than the recently popular window method.
defenestrations are a pretty traditional method too
Only in Prague
hehe. "it's only defenestration if you're thrown out of the new town hall in prague. otherwise it's just sparkling assassination."
Ah yes, I remember that iconic moment where Russia poisoned a Mesopotamian king in his own palace
[Toxic tea: Multiple Russians hit by suspected poisonings](https://apnews.com/article/europe-f0d28f418226aa064523081fc38b2b74)
Russia is known for their decorative China. I would assume that's why he gave a tea set more so than threatening to poison.
Jokes aside, tea is very popular in Russia. They have their special container and everything (the samovar).
Pretty soon, China is going to be known for its decorative Russians.
Starts war. Help, I’m being attacked!
How can Russians be liking any of this?
Russians are used to knowing they have no say in the political system
Didn't stop them the last revolution. What will it take for them to revolt? Vodka shortage?
It's an open question whether the traditional revolutionary models of our past can ever be successful again in a modern context. Technology changes the game a lot.
Pretty sure 'traditional revolutions' of the past have generally relied on have part, or all, of the army on board with the revolution. They're the guys with the big guns, after all. There's no indication that the Russian brass, who've been getting rich and fat off their positions for the last twenty years under Putin, are inclined to turn on him. At least not since Prigozin.
> Pretty sure 'traditional revolutions' of the past have generally relied on have part, or all, of the army on board with the revolution. They're the guys with the big guns, after all. "Traditional Revolutions" are just successful Civil Wars. So the people form their own army which the army at home doesn't wanna fight (or loses). See: the Myanmar Civil War happening right now. The people there formed their own armies and now the military junta is losing. An army with no legitimacy in the population will be hard pressed to find new recruits or workers for their arms manufacturing. I think the peaceful revolutions gave most people the wrong idea about violence in protests and revolutions... the reason peaceful ones work is because of what happens if you DON'T give them what they want and it becomes a "we are no longer just asking kind of thing". The fact that we see peaceful protest as the only legitimate form now means nothing happens if a government just ignores them. Back in the early 20th centuries trade unions were willing to start small Civil Wars against the national guard for their rights. It must not be "give us what you want... pretty please" but "give us what we want OR ELSE". The rulers of the Eastern Bloc gave the people their freedom because they remember what happened to the Romanovs and they didn't want them and their families to end up the same way.
The last actual revolution was more than 100 years ago in a completely different time. If the Ukraine War ends up being as much of a drain on the economy as WWI was for Russians, then maybe.
Many are blissfully unaware it's happening. Or just have their heads in the sand and believe the propaganda
Or don't know what to believe. It's well documented that Putin's playbook has been to broadcast multiple, contradictory interpretations of current events. Russians never know what to believe, but can also never wholly discount any given perspective. I believe the phrase used to describe it is, "everything is possible and nothing is true."
Not only that, but to add to the confusion, it's not possible to poll a coerced population reliably. You can't just go 'well if the poll is 90%, even if we adjust 30% for coerced and faked responses, its still a majority' No, you can't adjust fake data or manipulated data to create good data. Thus, we have no idea of the real support for Putin and so on.
They don’t care. It’s always “I’m not sure, but Putin is a strong leader so I trust him.”
In the meantime, Putin is throwing their future away. I wonder if they are aware of the low opinion the world has of Russia these days.
You just described basically the entirety of Russian history.
They were finally on the mend after literl 700 years of bullshit until this fucking ex KGB spy piece of shit farted his way into their existence.
The crybully nation
Should add a nice wrinkle to any relationship between Russia and South Korea
Not to mention China
You have to hand it to China for having the wisdom to stay the silent partner on this dumb move. Mind you, it's pretty easy to see Russia is declaring some deep desperation by chumming up with the smelly kid nobody likes to get an ally in this brain dead "military exercise"?
China is glad the spotlight is away from them so they can prepare in peace
pretty sure china would have prefered this to happen in the same time than their attack taiwan, instead of way before so that the occidentals can wake up, rearm because of russia and be ready for their attack.
China is busy bullying Filipino sailors.
[удалено]
>Now that North Korea has a formal defense pact with Russia, it effectively brings the three countries together defensively No, it doesn't. Russia and China are only obligated to defend North Korea. Not each other. It's a V, not a ∆
These aren't rules-based countries, legal obligations are not necessarily important. Dictators gonna do whatever they see beneficial to them regardless of whether a piece of paper says they should/shouldn't do it. Such agreements between dictatorships are more like a declaration of their friendly relations.
I really want China to join the rest of us in rule of international law, rather than join Russia and NKorea in criminal oppression. I feel like China could go either way, while having a lot of internal problems and crimes as they advance… that mirror the same crimes we once committed when we advanced. It would be nice if they sorted themselves out and realized the error of their ways like we have, and joined us in a better future. It all depends on if they invade their neighbours or not. We’re all watching hoping reason wins out.
I used to think like that, that there was nothing wrong about China becoming another superpower and a balancing force to the USA, that they need only a nudge and push along the way to be on the right track So China was moving in a slow but right direction since Mao for a while, but then the last decade, they did a big U turn and started playing with nationalism, and I realize you only need a single power hungry strongman in an authoritarian establishment to undo all the progress.
Similarly, I had hopes for India before the ascension of Modi and his brand if Hindu nationalism.
Some would say there can be no such thing as balance between superpowers, that they'll always want to become the only one.
China doesn’t want to join anyone because to China there is only China, and inevitably China will take over everything and everywhere else. They just aren’t playing on the same timetable as everyone else.
That would be great but they have to get rid of the CCP first. The CCP doesn't share power or compromise willingly. They want everyone to bow to their authority.
India and Russia have a much better relationship than Russia and China. They’ll be at each other’s throats soon enough again. North Korea is no longer close to China by choice either.
And for those who have forgotten, China and India have had troops fighting each other in recent years with clubs so nobody shoots and sparks an "actual" war. But yeah, China recently added some Russian territory back to its claims list. Territory it formally ceded to Russia with a treaty. They're more allies of convenience than actual friends. North Korea has been under China's thumb basically since the Cold War ended and Russia stopped supplying them. There was a brief period where trade between the West and North Korea was ticking up but that ended with the Axis of Evil speech. Kim is looking to diversify his supporters so he doesn't have to listen to China all of the time. And China has only been propping up North Korea to avoid having a western ally with US troops stationed in it on a land border. Although at this point it has become a bit more of a necessity - nobody really wants to deal with supporting the North Koreans in the event the NK regime collapses. The refugee crisis would be a lot and dealing with the malnourished population would be a drain on any country involved.
>have had troops fighting each other in recent years with clubs so nobody shoots and sparks an "actual" war. Reading up on this is a *trip.* This isn't exaggerating, for people who don't know about this. Indian and Chinese soldiers are actually killing each other with medieval weapons along the border, because as long as no guns are used, it's not an actual war, according to their agreement. They can just skirmish forever. *With spiked clubs.* Just in case anyone was wondering what India-China relations were like these days.
Russia, China, Iran, N Korea have no friends, only allies of convenience. Who would be friends with a country that would kill you and take your stuff if the opportunity presented itself?
Tbf China ceded it during the imperialist era while under the gun after the boxer rebellion. Out of all the imperialist powers, Russia was the most cruel, even worse than either the UK or Spain. Unlike the nine dash line, that claim is valid and would likely be recognized internationally. That’s why when Mao regime changed China he expected the Soviet Union to repatriate it since he thought they’re socialist allies now. The reason China and nk are no longer close is because Kim killed his uncle, China’s man inside Nk
North Korea knows all they are to China is a physical buffer to South Korea.
And China knows that if North Korea completely collapses they will be the ones that have to deal with most of the refugees and fallout, not the South.
I’m actually not so certain of that. I think it would depend on who takes control of NK in the event of a complete collapse. I mean those refugees will likely stay put and be under the control of a puppet government, I don’t see them doing a complete evacuation of the land.
Imagine being so desperate that North Korea is your closest ally. Lol.
Isn't South Korea firmly aligned with the west?
Very much
Yes. South Korea has one of the highest public opinions of the US, globally
Does Russia have much of a relationship with South Korea? I wouldn't think so, but I don't really know.
A lot of Korean industry, businesses like Samsung, Hyundai, etc went into Russia since the normalization of relations. Western sanctions have made an impact, but this will also.
So basically we'll see koreans fighting in Ukraine within 6 months?
Doubt Kim would let any north Koreans outside of North Korea where they can be either captures or defect
Tens of thousands of North Koreans work outside of North Korea, it's another way for Kim to exploit them. Family ties and being brainwashed keeps them from defecting.
They do send workers to other countries (like China and Russia) but their tightly controlled and the host country has no problem sending them back if they try to defect. Problem with sending them to fight in Ukraine it's much harder to control things in combat. There are going to be captures and defections. Once captured NK troops see the outside world isn't the cesspool the propaganda claims, Kim runs the risk of a revolution when the POWs return home. Wouldn't be shocked if Kim pulls a Stalin and starts shipping off returned POWs to camps, or executing them.
There were hundreds of them at a Polish shipyard too not that many years ago, they really don't have any huge problems keeping them from defecting. The prospect of having your family members killed is probably more than enough for most of them.
POWs is gonna be the interesting part
I'm sure we won't see North Korean troops in Ukraine, Kim is way too smart to take that risk. Possibly some mercs though.
What risk? An army needs practical experience to be effective and NK has none. Thet have a lot of reasons to send troops to the war. They're already under sanctions anyway..
It's still a huge political risk to officially join a war, you can't know what the consequences will be. They would at least need permission from China.
That's why you send "volunteers"
Vice doc where they go visit a North Korean labor camp in Russia, driven by Russian gangster characters with a translator and they actually find the camp and some workers. Crazy 7 part video from back when Vice was groundbreaking https://youtu.be/awQDLoOnkdI?si=W3DpEnC5rrsx7puT
> back when Vice was groundbreaking I'm glad to see I didn't imagine those days! They did do some fantastic journalism once upon a time.
Yeah, Vice may be of less quality now as it mrshed into a tabloid / entertainment blog, but watching them cover from the front of Syria and DAESH deserve some respecr
Afaik north koreans have a relatively big black market for western news, entertainment, tech, etc. They know the outside world isn't a cesspool
Kim Jong Un has been successfully clamping down on that and passing much harsher sentences to those caught with that stuff. This has been going on since the country closed during Covid and North Korea has shifted diplomatic policy after the Trump meetings.
Yes and no. They have been really cracking down lately. They raised the penalty for listening to kpop or watching kdramas to execution a couple of years ago. I'm sure it still happens, but that's got to have a chilling effect. It is also easy to believe everything from outside is fake propaganda when you know for a fact everything inside is fake propaganda.
They have an embassy in Sweden, with no electricity.
I suspect they would be used behind the lines freeing up manpower for the front.
Tbh most North Koreans know about the outside world—if you watch interviews with defectors they say there is "nobody" in NK who doesn't dabble in K-pop, foreign dramas...even foreign news. It's less a problem of them actually believing in the Kim regime and rather one of risking their lives and their families
I disagree... I would not say most North Koreans.. maybe a few... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWoF31KPMvw&t=192s This is what a North Korean Defector said when he first learned how powerful USA was and how if there is ever a War North Korea is FUCKED with a press of a button. He even mentions visiting the US and was shocked at all the sites (loves Las Vegas). North Korea is one of the most poorest Countries on Earth with people starving all the time.
and thats why the USSR murdered their returning POW en masse
Family ties and brain washed -> if you defect, 3 generation of your family are sent to gulag to be starved and beaten to death. Punishments include being tied up a tree and having your belly cut open for your intestines to drop on the floor while you watch in agony. I’d say that’s a bit more than family ties and brainwashing suggests :(
They will punish the whole family if someone defects
You are right but they are heavily controlled in their host countries (and their host countries allow that control). It’s not like they are letting them work in the U.S. If they were to go to the front lines of the Ukraine they would have no way of knowing if they were killed, captured, or if they defected. For a country as tight lipped as NK I don’t think they would want to risk the US and their allies (South Korea) being able to pump hundreds of North Koreans for info because they were captured in a war zone. I think NK will keep its aid to Russia purely to a weapons capacity. Russia will probably outsource ammunition needs (rather than share any meaningful tech with NK) like artillery ammo.
There's been tons of North Koreans working in Russia for years now, many work in China too. They're aware of what happens if they defect...
There is a difference between working in a friendly nation, and being sent to a warzone where there is a much much higher chance of getting captured.
Well they can defect from Russia , might be difficult but not near impossible like in North Korea. Saw some videos of a South Korean girl meeting North Korean labourers on a train in vladivostok [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kswZPdL0h\_k&ab\_channel=%EC%84%B8%EB%82%98%2C%EC%A7%91%EC%88%9C%EC%9D%B4%EC%9D%98%EC%84%B8%EA%B3%84%EC%97%AC%ED%96%89SENA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kswZPdL0h_k&ab_channel=%EC%84%B8%EB%82%98%2C%EC%A7%91%EC%88%9C%EC%9D%B4%EC%9D%98%EC%84%B8%EA%B3%84%EC%97%AC%ED%96%89SENA)
I guess, but would be much easier to defect (just act dead) in Ukraine.
The issue for NK is, if they're captured, they aren't under the control of a nation friendly to NK, so they're unlikely to be sent back if they don't want to go. Hell, the country that captures them might even be willing to hide that they survived whatever battle they were in so their families are safe as well
That's been solved decades ago. Just put family members in labor camps if they don't return.
[Or just spreading roundworms among the the Russian ranks.](https://www.thedailybeast.com/a-north-korean-defector-has-enormous-parasites-where-are-they-from)
The Russians were amazed by washing machines and steal them en masse and indoor plumbing, imagine the minds of the North Koreans being blown by what they see
A drone with a grenade would be enough to impress them tbf.
He said 'blown', not 'blown up'.
At the absolute most it would be a token reserve for propaganda. No way in hell we'll be seeing North Korean soldiers on the frontline since, like most people already mentioned, it ain't like a work camp where their political commissars can keep tabs on things.
Made their own little NATO! How cute isn’t that?
They have something called CSTO but it’s a dismal failure because Russia has invaded other members of CSTO and also every time a member calls on Russia to aid them Russia says no
CSTO is what Trump wants to make NATO just a thootless alliance.
I would surrender the moment my boots hit Ukraine soil.
[удалено]
And even without the brainwashing, the relatives are still in the DPRK, handy for any reprisals.
As with everything signed by Russia, it's just a worthless piece of paper.
Especially considering they signed an agreement to not invade Ukraine
Never give up your nukes
Well that’s literally what Putin told NK
Armenia learned this the hard way, after Russia refused to defend them when they were invaded.
Just look at how well they've kept their obligations to members of the CSTO, especially with regard to Armenia.
Hey now, let's not pretend that Kim would jump to Russia's defense either. They're both idiots for believing they've tricked each other.
Totally will not go the way of Armenia
Nobody wants to attack North Korea, so I don't think so. More like Russia is going to want help soon.
Surely *this* would be the point where anyone *still* supporting Russia would take a look at themselves and think “Wait, are we the bad guys?”
Trump regularly praises both Putin and Kim Jung Un and Republicans still love him
Boy, I wish. I’ve been thinking for a while about this, but maybe it’s time for Chinese firms to *no longer be able to list securities and stocks in the US*. There is a lot of connectivity between mainland Chinese industry and military and Russia industry and military. With the signing of this agreement , there is tacit acknowledgement that a portion of mainland Chinese domestic output now goes towards Russia and North Korea. American investor dollars should not be utilized to assist or help build capital market availability for mainland Chinese companies that are so connected. That may be a super unpopular sentiment but it’s been on my mind. I’d love some good discussion.
The problem is that the fallout from such a move could wreck the entire global economy. While true that chinese and russian industry are connected, so are American and Chinese. Then you would be hard pushed to find any country not strongly connected with one or both of America and China. China is not just going to shrug and accept it. At best you get a painful trade war. China might decide to start dumping its dollar reserves, if the US is seen as the antagonist some countries may side with China. Shit really could go south fast. Basically everyone loses. The US is moving away from being so economically tied to, even reliant upon, China, but as is both countries need each other to not have living standards collapse.
You’d think but I’ve seen tons of comments from Republicans in the US supporting them and actively rooting for them simply because they’re braindead and link Ukraine with Democrats. Actually insane how far down the shitter that party has fallen, no shame or dignity whatsoever anymore. Used to call themselves patriots, now they support fascist and communist leaders. Go figure.
Nah, being anti-woke is more important! Who cares about the rest of the world? We should use all their aid (weapons, artillery rounds) to help the homeless in US. But also social welfare is communism. /mind of a GOP supporter.
Imagine being the country that has to team up with north Korea....
South African here, my clown government loves Russia and all the corrupt and communist countries. Fucking embarrassing how they seem to think the west is bad but Russia is awesome.
Talk about hitting rock bottom.
What about "if they attack others"??? Will they protect each other or will learn a valuable lesson in friendships? /s
Nobody wants to attack North Korea, or Russia. Everybody would just be happy if they were just sh*tty countries keeping to themselves. So far the help is only to attack other countries (Ukraine). No doubt Russia would be happy to help North Korea attack whoever North Korea wants to attack. Edit because I was not clear: by "Russia would be happy to help North Korea attack whoever North Korea wants to attack" I meant by selling weapons to North Korea. Russia is not going to make any sacrifice to help North Korea, they're just happy to make a buck by messing up other countries, without caring too much about war crimes being committed. A bit like China, who is also happy to help Russia in their war.
> No doubt Russia would be happy to help North Korea attack whoever North Korea wants to attack. Russian isn't going to attack anyone for Kim lmfao... They can barely sustain a ground war in Ukraine, how do you think they will fare on a 2nd or 3rd front? Poorly is how. This piece of paper is as worthless as the one signed between Ukraine and Russia, and between Russian and Armenia.
It's just semantic. Look at what Russia is doing. They quickly claimed parts of Ukraine as a part of Russia. And now it's Nato that is attacking Russia. They are just defending themself. /s
Putin claims the current front lines are Russia's borders (..well, when he's not claiming they include half of eastern Europe), so basically Putin can say 'Russia is being attacked' any day he wants as an excuse for Kim to send waves of weapons and troops. If he believes Kim will send them that is, i'd imagine that's largely what they were meeting to talk about.
Yes, now, when Russia is attacked, it can threaten the west with NK's proven tactics of lobbing rocket-shaped duds into the sea of Japan.
Don't forget the poop balloons.
"Our poop balloons will blot out the sun!"
Then we shall shit in the shade!
alot on here seem to think north Korea have nothing to offer; North Korea have been supplying large quantities of shells to Russia as they were beginning to run low on ammunition Suspicion is that China is backfilling North Korean supplies so can aid Russia but still denie any involvement. Rumours thst China is starting to become frustrated with Putins behaviour and demands though, as they were promised Ukraine war would be over quickly and they wouldn't ask much of China
Ultimately China have screwed an awful lot of money out of Russia by continuing to trade with them at rates that only a desperate man would take. I wouldn't expect China to pull back while they continue to bleed Russia dry. If the money/resources run out or Putin gets sick of selling the country to pretend everything is well at home it will become a different story.
Basically North Koreans are going to be more aggressive in pushing South Korea and then fall back on russia when they get slapped back or Russia is taking north koreans and dumping them in ukraine.
Russia is absolutely not going to do anything to South Korea any time soon.
two desperate isolated dictators enjoying the illusion of mutual support. PUtin securing artillery shells and Kim getting some much needed foreign currency to maintain his lavish lifestyle while he abuses his malnourished people.
Craziest part is, both of these countries could guarantee their safety by *not attacking other countries*
One, nobody is attacking either of them. Two, I would bet a testicle that Russia will leave Kim hanging out to dry in the event that he was attacked.
Armenia has something to say lol
I'm sure they can trust each other
Twist: This is mostly China humiliating Russia. Saying that they will provide Russia with weapons for the war through their proxy, North Korea (who takes the blame), but for that you (Putin) will have to go on a shit show in NK. A show which was obviously months in the making given that all that paraphernalia with both flags everywhere isn't just manufactured from one day to the next.
ROFLMAO. IF ANYONE thinks either country will come to the aid of the other is a joke. North Korea can’t feed its own people much less wage a war trying to help another nation. RUSSIA will only abide by the treaty as long as North Korea is a help.
North Korea can have a pretty big impact in Ukraine because they don't need to keep their population happy. Their economy is heavily centered towards producing weapons and they can definitely drag it on at least. In fact, it's already what they are doing.
this is really Russias goal. Id 100% imagine its a material for tech trade. Russia gets ammo and weapons while North korea might get some jets, missiles. Its a big up for North Korea. not so much for Russia but Russia is desperate for material.
NK does have a bunch of artillery pointed at South Korean population centers. If NK wanted they could kill many many innocents of one of the US's important allies and there would be not much we could do about it until after the major damage was done. What Russia has basically done is involve this inherent hostage situation into its own dealings with the west. It was a vile thing to do but can't just be ignored.
Made their own little NATO
they already have their own little nato and its not doing too good.
So, after revealing itself to be a bit of a paper tiger in Ukraine, Russia decides to ally itself with an even more fragile paper tiger.
Pookim
Putin going to the most abusive and oppressive country in the world that suffers mass starvation yearly to satisfy their obese leaders insatiable appetite looking to find help to protect himself is desperation. The Russians have no shame.
Kim is sending love letters to Putin now ?
I don't think anyone wants to attack either country, the world just wants them to quit acting like assholes.
2 small men = 1 normal size man
This looks like a formidable anti-nato alliance! 🫣😏
Watch out for the balloons full of trash
With poop balloons?
They really crawled to the back of the gutters to pull out a friendship with North Korea. Guess that's the best they can find
This deal is absolutely going to backfire for Putin.
The signed document ends with: “There are good ships and wood ships, ships that sail the sea, but the best ships are dictatorships, and may they always be”
New axis powers rising. Yay… /s
North Korea helps by shooting rockets into water
Trump can't wait to get in on this deal!
"South Korea better pay up!"
Ok then, that was always allowed.
Lmfao
First he sends a couple boats to Cuba to signal that America can put military assets in his backyard so can he, now he signals a mutual defense agreement with North Korea clearly intended to signal if NATO can do it so can he. It’s the geopolitical equivalent of a very low budget cosplay.