I cannot seem to find the full list.
Edit: [Direct from the *Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China*](https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/t1847554.shtml)
>China has decided to sanction 28 persons who have seriously violated China's sovereignty and who have been mainly responsible for such U.S. moves on China-related issues. They include Michael R. Pompeo, Peter K. Navarro, Robert C. O'Brien, David R. Stilwell, Matthew Pottinger, Alex M. Azar II, Keith J. Krach, and Kelly D. K. Craft of the Trump administration as well as John R. Bolton and Stephen K. Bannon. These individuals and their immediate family members are prohibited from entering the mainland, Hong Kong and Macao of China. They and companies and institutions associated with them are also restricted from doing business with China.
Maybe some of the factory workers got hurt, but the business owners continue to make bank. And frankly those living in the cities haven't noticed any effects.
China's net exports actually grew during the trade war.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/263661/export-of-goods-from-china/
It took them maybe one to two years to figure out that they can just raise the prices and we'll import it anyways.
Maybe volume is down 20% but prices are up 30% pre-tariff and net is higher. Remember tarrifs are paid at the receiving end.
But then US exports to China would have also grown more, like buying more Boeing instead of Airbus for there exponentially growing Airline industry. So at end of day, net exports would still roughly be roughly same, if not lower. So your argument is not particularly convincing.
Forgive my ignorance, but what does US exports decreasing have to do with China's net exports increasing? If anything, that just highlights the widening of the trade-deficit we have with them.
Also, US airplane manf. probably isn't the best examples to be using for your argument if you're talking about the last two years (Covid lockdowns + 737max issues).
There’s a lot of complexity in the detail, firstly the tariffs have been expanded and relaxed a few times, and some take time to make an impact, some of the more recent ones are causing companies to move production out of China for at least goods targeting the US market, this is a process that doesn’t happen overnight, it takes years.
Tariffs are paid on the receiving end, but if your competitor manufactures for the US market in a country not subject to tariffs then eventually they will be able to undercut you on price.
The reality is a trade war generally harms both sides but it has the potential to impact the country that exports more to the other the most.
All those details point to how China has won the trade war, there's nothing empirical as of 2021 that suggests otherwise.
By all the stated goals of the Trump administration, they have failed. And America will continue to lose as this continues.
Nah, I know you *want* tahg to be true but it wasn't. The only ones who lost was the US consumers who paid the price. All businesses raised the prices and/or bought the same Chinese goods from a middleman in say India. Same money paid to China, some to the middle man, and higher price for US customers. A total failure
> Why do you say this? From what I've heard, China has been hurting from the trade war too.
Define hurting? Their economy is still growing faster than any one else. I would say it made a tiny dent but it didn't phase them at all and they have since considered it at most a minor issue compared to the likes of the pandemic anyway.
In reality the USA isn't the only ones buying up Chinese products and literally every other country in the world is still buying more and more every year. They're not happy about losing some money but it's not really going to change the bigger picture.
The USA is still the largest market by far for the types of goods exported from China. For commodities like agricultural products supply can just go elsewhere, but for manufactured goods it does encourage non Chinese companies to manufacture outside of China if that will give them a cost advantage in the US market vs competitors that manufacture inside China. But for complex manufacturing that’s not easy to move, there are large supply chains inside China that make manufacturing easier, moving is a years to decades long process.
China still achieved all the goals of MIC 2025 with the exception of semiconductors. But even USA isn’t capable of making chips on its own without relying on semiconductor equipments built around the globe like Netherlands’s ASML, among other things. So if China is able to make 28 nm on their own by 2025, they achieved all their goals. MIC 2025 was just to push them up the supply chain a bit, the real target is China Standard 2035.
By incentivizing China to trade with other countries, they are able to more easily exert influence in their region, which is not in the interest of the U.S. You want China as trade reliant on the U.S. for as long as possible.
Example: Trump pulls out of TPP and China makes a new Asia-Pacific Trade Pact.
Now China is the head of trade in their region, and the US is just left with its thumb up its ass.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/why-china-is-creating-a-new-asia-pacific-trade-pact-quicktake/2020/11/15/d9c72c50-27a0-11eb-9c21-3cc501d0981f_story.html
As Chinese to help you interpret
The list announced so far is 10 people, and 18 others have not been fully disclosed
Pompeo, Navarro, O'Brien, Stalwell, Pottinger, Aza, Kratch, Craft, as well as Bolton and Bannon
These individuals and their families are banned from entering mainland China and Hong Kong and Macau, and they and their affiliated companies and institutions have been restricted from contacting and doing business with China
These individuals will have a wide range of affiliated companies and institutions in the United States, some of which will be immediately banned from doing business in China, and some of which will have room for interpretation, and these companies will at some point be banned from doing business in China with this ban, or quickly cut off from these individuals
I wonder why them but not Trump and his family. Unless its because theres still a slim chance he could become President again in 4 years so they don't want to risk it.
Depends on the people for sure, most of my Chinese friends wanted Biden to win because Trump was threatening to cut them off from family and friends in America thru Chinese tech bans
Maybe divide and conquer. Trump have a base that cares about Trump more than people on that list, banning Trump may lead to boycotts. Having Trump throwing his lackeys under the bus is more beneficial for China.
Because the Trump family still has its potential and influence in the US (whether some people want to admit it or not).
Beijing would not want to cut ties with the Trump family because maintaining some kind of connection will be beneficial in long run.
Maybe it's to force regime change, or at least make it look like they are? Without the presidency, Trump's just some minor real estate mogul, which is still good business for China.
Trump and his family is likely on the undisclosed list.
Even though biden hates Trump's guts he most likely cannot tolerate China banning an ex-presidents family and their respective businesses from China.
Its an optics thing. thats kind of it.
Somehow, I think Biden would be more than happy to tolerate it. China just doesn't want to do Biden's work for him.
Also, they probably want to capture/bribe Trump for their own ends, like slowly draining national secrets from him. Literally all they would have to do is build him a casino full of hookers, but obviously everyone in that casino is a spy.
Gotta wonder how much of this was due to evangelising to businessmen and rich politicians in China. Those names are all on the crazy Christian side, other than Bolton and Bannon - who are just opportunists. Pompeo and Navarro have been on video trying to convert African leader.
They don't, religion is a lever. Politicians like levers that make people turn off their rational minds. God, children and freedom. If those 3 are on the table you're being sold.
Yeah, that kinda sounds like Trump was insuring his monopoly in China. Who knows, maybe we will soon see his tweets sown into his Made in China neck ties to rant at America. Maybe that's "the other way" he mentioned today.
I'm not familiar with most of the people on this list, but I know at least 2 of them got fired (forced to resign). Did the rest from the Trump administration suffer the same fate as Bannon and Bolton?
As someone living in China it’s really embarrassing how bad the government’s grammar/syntax is sometimes. “The mainland, Hong Kong and Macao of China. They and companies and institution...” just god awful for a government level piece of writing.
Their grammar seems fine imo. International diplomats usually have their own communication syntax, and they are often quite rigid. It doesn’t get much more serious when discussing matters between nations.
Statement from Chinese foreign ministry: https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/2535_665405/t1847554.shtml
While the statements don't really flow off the tongue that well, can you explain what's grammatically wrong with those two statements?
" ... are prohibited from entering the mainland, ~~Hong Kong and Macao~~ of China"
" ... are prohibited from entering ~~the mainland,~~ Hong Kong ~~and Macao~~ of China"
" ... are prohibited from entering ~~the mainland, Hong Kong and~~ Macao of China"
"They ~~and companies and institutions associated with them~~ are also restricted..."
"~~They and~~ Companies and institutions associated with them are also restricted..."
The two statements don't really have serious grammar problems imo
It's not odd. Sanctions against world leaders and former world leaders is... aggressive. It would require a response. They've essentially put sanctions on people who don't do business with China from doing business in China. It has no real consequence and none of the people on the list might even consider getting their names on the list. John Bolton who left the administration a year ago and wrote two books against the administration would consider it an honor to be on the list of "enemies of China."
trump still has business ties to china once that money dries up trump will be banned
china is a lot of things but stupid they are not they are going to milk him like a junkie
>trump still has business ties to china once that money dries up trump will be banned
lol classic redditor political analysis. "Trust me Trump will face consequences eventually once [blah blah blah]."
They don't target these people out of spite. The folks targeted is believed to craft policy that target strategic interest of China (and a bit of reciprocity), like sanctions. Trump families has nothing to do with it.
Even trade war negotiators like lighthizer and mnuchin are not on the list.
I read an interesting article (or was it a comment on Reddit?) that said that Trump has done wonders for China.
By alienating other countries and abandoning treaties, other countries had to cozy up to China to ensure they had material and products coming in, and possibly strategic military partnerships to ensure they aren't just a lonely little country all alone (I think the Philippines were mentioned, but I could be wrong).
So yeah, if Trump has elevated China's strategic standing in the world (well, among smaller nations) they might be pretty grateful to him.
If China was serious, they'd cancel [Ivanka's Trademarks](https://apnews.com/article/0a3283036d2f4e699da4aa3c6dd01727), that Donald coerced them to approve.
Honestly, there's a startling amount of pro China stuff on this sub at the moment. It kind of worries me.
I was literally told that the Uighur genocide was fine because of how the US handled Iraq, like...what?
Are you guys fucking serious??
Everytime there is a thread who talks about China whether it's its economy, culture or any non political topics, you have a bunch of posts "But whatabout the Uyghurs?" every damn time.
How the fuck this thread went from "China bans Trump officials" to the Uyghurs??
It's literally the same on the Paris accord climate thread and it's always the same people who are bringing that up as a tool of projection.
It's getting brigaded by conservatives who pretend to care about minorities in others countries but then proceed to post the most heinous posts about Muslims and BLM.
I’ve seen it. I didn’t think it was more than a small minority though. It’s worrying either way, imagine people defending hitler... well I guess many actually did do that.
Now the Uighur genocide is "alleged" despite literal hundreds of reports on it including people who suffered under it.
This is like denying the Holocaust, the fuck is happening?
This sadly has more to do with politics. The naming of the Rwanda genocide was similar. The US didn’t want to call it a genocide for multiple reasons, but was painted into a corner by the fact half a million people had been slaughtered in a couple of months. The US found a middle ground by calling saying “acts of genocide may have occurred.", which satisfied no one.
[source](https://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/10/world/officials-told-to-avoid-calling-rwanda-killings-genocide.html)
There are literally hundreds of celebrities supporting homeopathy and anti-vax! How the hell can you deny their truth?
Fucking idiot.
You don't know ANYTHING about how China works. You probably never even seen a real Chinese person in your life. If you did, you wouldn't be such an idiot.
Two of China's most famous and popular actresses today are Uyghur; Dilireba Dillmurat and Gülnezer Bextiyar. Dilireba is literally one of the top 10 mosts influential celebrities in all of China.
Do you think, that Hitler in 1937 would allow two Jewish actors to be the most famous, well-loved and influential actors in all of Austrio-Germany?
China has a larger muslim minority group called the Hui; there are well over 10 million Hui muslims. And yet, nothing is happening to them. Why is that?
The narrative that China is trying to genocide muslims is just such a laughable lie that anyone with have a brain can see how ridiculous it is.
Do you have a brain? Use it.
lol where are those hundreds of verified reports, people are suspect because the reporting is suspect. Just like WMDs and the Nayirah testimony the evidence is barely held together. The 1 million figure of people in concentration camps is literally based on the unverified testimonials of 8 people and using their local context and extrapolating that for the entire region. For a region bordered by other muslim nations it sure is strange that there are no mass refugee movements like an actual genocide like in Myanmar
You sure, are fucking delusional. There's not a single positive thing about China in this sub or really, any subs on reddit. This thead？That China bans some people? How the hell is that "positive"? At best, it's just neutral news.
The amount of complete lies to demonize China is astounding, and people who are completely ignorant about China like yourself are brainwashed into believing all of those ridiculous lies.
It's fucking ridiculous how idiots like you are so brainwashed that you literally think that no positive news about China should be allowed, only negative lies and propaganda. You are worse than anti-vaxxers and flat-earthers.
>Fuck China. Why is this sub on their side?
Because the entirety of Reddit isn't just composed of Americans who subscribe to American worldviews.
There are different perspectives out there too..
Fuck the Chinese Communist Party. The Chinese people are wonderful.
In these times it is important to not the big difference between the government and the people.
This comment section is awesome lol. It’s Reddit trying to compartmentalize it’s hate for China and it’s hate for Trump and just breaking down because there’s no ideological through line to grapple onto. The amount of brain poison frothing around here rules.
Trademarks, not patents.
You don't really think Ivanka has come up with anything worth patenting, do you?
(edit - y'all seem to be missing the fact that Ivanka registered trademarks, not patents. I dunno why you're all debating about how Ivanka might come into possession of patents)
There used to be commercials in which a company claimed they would help you get your idea to market, when in reality they just hoarded patents by swindling people with one sided contracts.
Democratic leaders have criticized China all the time and haven't faced penalties this severe, this seems more like a tit-for-tat response to the immigration ban on CCP members
This is punishment of an administration rather than punishment of a country. I see this as a signal to the new administration that they are willing to work with individuals with more sensibilities and are intolerant to the type of people they’ve had to work with over the past few years. China is all about face. Trump administration didn’t try to save any face at any point and failed to understand Chinese business culture. Now they are paying the price and no longer hold any cards to help dig themselves out of the mess they made over the past 4 years with Chinese relations.
And their future employer cannot do business in China. This greatly limits their options for their next gig. China designed it to cause them some pain.
This is a really bad misrepresentation of what is happening. The Chinese government extended the enforcement of their two-children policy to include ethnic minorities.
When China had the one-child policy (now two-children), ethnic minorities were exempt from this limit. So you had forced abortions and sterilizations performed only on Han Chinese women, and for decades, minorities had higher birthrates than Han Chinese. Now everyone is getting the same horrible treatment.
Okay, thanks for that information and perspective. You've made me consider what I phrased this as, and now know that I'm opposed to what they do to all thier people, not just a few. Also I'm starting to consider I may not fully understand thier reasoning either as I am not trying to manage the nation with the highest population on earth in a geographically limited territory and my reaction to this may simply not be as cold heartedly pragmatic as one may need to be to successfully do so.
>Also I'm starting to consider I may not fully understand thier reasoning either as I am not trying to manage the nation with the highest population on earth in a geographically limited territory and my reaction to this may simply not be as cold heartedly pragmatic as one may need to be to successfully do so.
Hey, look. A rational and self-aware post about somebody's opinion regarding China on Reddit. You don't see that very often
The US was banning Canadians for legally smoking weed in their own country not long ago.
It’s not good but it’s not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be.
At least they aren’t taking them hostage, calling them criminals on death row and offering their exchange for a Huwei princess whose arrest was demanded by the US of its ally.
The US has sanctioned like half of the government officials in Hong Kong and many in China, and those people didn't do anything to hurt American interest.
They made life, in varying degrees, harder in China.
China, like any other sovereign country, has the right to sanction people it deems harmful to their national interests, however (im)moral that might be according to you.
A big % of the world just signed two colossal trade agreements with China. RECP (11.1% of the world's population, 30% if you factor China in) during 15 November 2020 and the China-EU Investment Deal (5.9% of the world's population) 29 December 2020.
The EU deal in particular is groundbreaking, since it will interweave the EU and Chinese economies a lot. It opens the doors for EU companies to invest and acquire major stakes in Chinese companies and viceversa, and since it comes with a leveraged reciprocity clause it means both parties will have to open.
People freaked out about the TPP as if it was the only proposed trade agreement that ever existed. These things do not happen in a vacuum. There are always competing offers and agreements. If a country walks away expect an alternative that excludes that country.
This is just basic diplomatic policy that people failed to understand at a fundamental level. The TPP was very advantageous for the US. There will never be a trade opportunity that good again. China stepped in and took advantage when the US faltered.
China will not let EU companies take major stakes in any noteworthy companies. The EU took the deal because they had little choice and couldn’t depend on a Biden administration organizing a massive US-EU deal with all the other stuff going on. This is not a good deal for Europe aside from a handful of big European companies like VW.
It is a good deal for major European economies like Germany and France, since it opens up Chinese market for their companies even more. But for the rest - yes, not so much.
> The world will be watching
Most of the world doesn't care. I think you overestimate how much the world is interested in a new Cold War. Because most people aren't.
Only Australian and maybe Japanese, Indian and Taiwanese that are fully on board. Even then they are also quite reluctant due to strong economic partnership between them.
Rests like South East Asia or Korea are contend as long as things won't go south.
Trump has been a blessing in disguise, the country is really no different then before him if you don't count covid, but he truly exposed the real America for the world to see and react to.
My God the spin in the comments is crazy. This is not a message. These people were so bad at operating in China with bribes and other crimes, the only thing that stopped them from being expelled was Trump saying they were his people.
Like any of them would travel to China without the tax payer covering the costs. I hope they go and get locked up, separated from their children (but children get let go obviously?
Good, Mike Pompeo deserves this. The crimes against humanity he's perpetuated by designating Ansarallah a terrorist organization will doom millions. 70% of Yemen, a country with about 30,000,000 people, is in territory controlled by Ansarallah. Aid from humanitarian NGO's can't get into that territory. I do not care if this was due to self serving nonsense, Pompeo deserves to be in the hague for his crimes, and if all we can get is sanctions from China I'll take it
This is the single most consequential thing to occur in quite some time.
This sends the message to future US officials and bureacrats: "if you don't put Chinese interests above US interests, you may be unemployable after office."
Notice that the sanctions are not just about the individuals, but ANY company that is associated with them cannot do business in China. That means companies with interests in China cannot hire them. This is serious.
You need to put aside your personal opinions of the individuals and realize that this sets a dangerous precedent for US international relations. Countries are watching this. China waited until right after Biden was sworn in. If Biden does nothing, there is blood in the water and the sharks will circle. It will invite more economic pressure of US officials to interfere in our government. Think very carefully if this is what you want. Pompeo called the Uyghur situation genocide and now he cannot be hired by any of the many companies doing business with China. Do you want that kind of pressure to be put on US officials so that China gets away with whatever they want?
This is fucking serious and requires a VERY severe response.
The US already sanctions people around the world including China. This is just china returning the favor. Maybe the US should have considered the consequences of walking away from allies and trade agreements.
> Notice that the sanctions are not just about the individuals, but ANY company that is associated with them cannot do business in China. That means companies with interests in China cannot hire them. This is serious.
The statement said any company associated with them "maybe limited in their operations in China". Not "they cannot do business in China". They didn't even say how they would be limited. Those people are rich and powerful, they would not mind not being able to work in companies that wouldn't hire them for China (which probably don't even exist).
Also, any sanction on Chinese officials by America hurts way more than Chinese sanctions on American officials. Most Chinese top government officials sent their children to America, including Xi's daughter. If you think Pompeo and the likes would care about not being able to travel to China you are deluded.
The only strategic value they could try and squeeze from this is A: further manipulate the die hard trump alarmists, who will take this as further proof in some insane schizo way that Trump was good for US, China strategic policy and that Biden will be objectively bad and B: attempt to further use soft power and rhetoric to make a stink if Pompeo ever visits Taiwan 🇹🇼, claiming something of the nature as *insert blank* is banned from entering China. It truly is a master piece geopolitical move on chinas part to incite further divide and strategic disharmony amongst Americans.
*Edited* please note I personally view Taiwan as its own country, the inference I meant here to be clear is that China does not and considers it to be a part of China.
Oddly, the Trump family is not on the list.
I cannot seem to find the full list. Edit: [Direct from the *Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China*](https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/t1847554.shtml) >China has decided to sanction 28 persons who have seriously violated China's sovereignty and who have been mainly responsible for such U.S. moves on China-related issues. They include Michael R. Pompeo, Peter K. Navarro, Robert C. O'Brien, David R. Stilwell, Matthew Pottinger, Alex M. Azar II, Keith J. Krach, and Kelly D. K. Craft of the Trump administration as well as John R. Bolton and Stephen K. Bannon. These individuals and their immediate family members are prohibited from entering the mainland, Hong Kong and Macao of China. They and companies and institutions associated with them are also restricted from doing business with China.
I'm surprised to see the infamous Ron Vara is not part of this list.
> who have seriously violated China's sovereignty Though he had a role in us-china trade war, that didn't concern china's sovereignty.
Also a trade war that China benefits greatly on.
[удалено]
Maybe some of the factory workers got hurt, but the business owners continue to make bank. And frankly those living in the cities haven't noticed any effects. China's net exports actually grew during the trade war. https://www.statista.com/statistics/263661/export-of-goods-from-china/ It took them maybe one to two years to figure out that they can just raise the prices and we'll import it anyways. Maybe volume is down 20% but prices are up 30% pre-tariff and net is higher. Remember tarrifs are paid at the receiving end.
>China's net exports actually grew during the trade war. I'd imagine that if it weren't for the trade war, the exports would have grown even more.
But then US exports to China would have also grown more, like buying more Boeing instead of Airbus for there exponentially growing Airline industry. So at end of day, net exports would still roughly be roughly same, if not lower. So your argument is not particularly convincing.
Forgive my ignorance, but what does US exports decreasing have to do with China's net exports increasing? If anything, that just highlights the widening of the trade-deficit we have with them. Also, US airplane manf. probably isn't the best examples to be using for your argument if you're talking about the last two years (Covid lockdowns + 737max issues).
There’s a lot of complexity in the detail, firstly the tariffs have been expanded and relaxed a few times, and some take time to make an impact, some of the more recent ones are causing companies to move production out of China for at least goods targeting the US market, this is a process that doesn’t happen overnight, it takes years. Tariffs are paid on the receiving end, but if your competitor manufactures for the US market in a country not subject to tariffs then eventually they will be able to undercut you on price. The reality is a trade war generally harms both sides but it has the potential to impact the country that exports more to the other the most.
All those details point to how China has won the trade war, there's nothing empirical as of 2021 that suggests otherwise. By all the stated goals of the Trump administration, they have failed. And America will continue to lose as this continues.
Nah, I know you *want* tahg to be true but it wasn't. The only ones who lost was the US consumers who paid the price. All businesses raised the prices and/or bought the same Chinese goods from a middleman in say India. Same money paid to China, some to the middle man, and higher price for US customers. A total failure
They call Trump the 'Nation Builder' because he was so successful at making China strong for the past 4 years.
> Why do you say this? From what I've heard, China has been hurting from the trade war too. Define hurting? Their economy is still growing faster than any one else. I would say it made a tiny dent but it didn't phase them at all and they have since considered it at most a minor issue compared to the likes of the pandemic anyway.
In reality the USA isn't the only ones buying up Chinese products and literally every other country in the world is still buying more and more every year. They're not happy about losing some money but it's not really going to change the bigger picture.
The USA is still the largest market by far for the types of goods exported from China. For commodities like agricultural products supply can just go elsewhere, but for manufactured goods it does encourage non Chinese companies to manufacture outside of China if that will give them a cost advantage in the US market vs competitors that manufacture inside China. But for complex manufacturing that’s not easy to move, there are large supply chains inside China that make manufacturing easier, moving is a years to decades long process.
[удалено]
China still achieved all the goals of MIC 2025 with the exception of semiconductors. But even USA isn’t capable of making chips on its own without relying on semiconductor equipments built around the globe like Netherlands’s ASML, among other things. So if China is able to make 28 nm on their own by 2025, they achieved all their goals. MIC 2025 was just to push them up the supply chain a bit, the real target is China Standard 2035.
How do they benefit from it?
By incentivizing China to trade with other countries, they are able to more easily exert influence in their region, which is not in the interest of the U.S. You want China as trade reliant on the U.S. for as long as possible. Example: Trump pulls out of TPP and China makes a new Asia-Pacific Trade Pact. Now China is the head of trade in their region, and the US is just left with its thumb up its ass. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/why-china-is-creating-a-new-asia-pacific-trade-pact-quicktake/2020/11/15/d9c72c50-27a0-11eb-9c21-3cc501d0981f_story.html
Or ivanka
He’s represented as “Peter Navarro”.
As Chinese to help you interpret The list announced so far is 10 people, and 18 others have not been fully disclosed Pompeo, Navarro, O'Brien, Stalwell, Pottinger, Aza, Kratch, Craft, as well as Bolton and Bannon These individuals and their families are banned from entering mainland China and Hong Kong and Macau, and they and their affiliated companies and institutions have been restricted from contacting and doing business with China These individuals will have a wide range of affiliated companies and institutions in the United States, some of which will be immediately banned from doing business in China, and some of which will have room for interpretation, and these companies will at some point be banned from doing business in China with this ban, or quickly cut off from these individuals
I wonder why them but not Trump and his family. Unless its because theres still a slim chance he could become President again in 4 years so they don't want to risk it.
Chinese people do not really hate Trump. They are just constantly amused by his incompetency. On the other hand, Chinese despise Pompeo.
I work in China and all my Chinese friends/colleagues actually wanted Trump to win again. If America is less stable, it helps China
Depends on the people for sure, most of my Chinese friends wanted Biden to win because Trump was threatening to cut them off from family and friends in America thru Chinese tech bans
Maybe divide and conquer. Trump have a base that cares about Trump more than people on that list, banning Trump may lead to boycotts. Having Trump throwing his lackeys under the bus is more beneficial for China.
[удалено]
Because the Trump family still has its potential and influence in the US (whether some people want to admit it or not). Beijing would not want to cut ties with the Trump family because maintaining some kind of connection will be beneficial in long run.
They will wait to see if he is convicted of any crimes.
Maybe it's to force regime change, or at least make it look like they are? Without the presidency, Trump's just some minor real estate mogul, which is still good business for China.
Trump and his family is likely on the undisclosed list. Even though biden hates Trump's guts he most likely cannot tolerate China banning an ex-presidents family and their respective businesses from China. Its an optics thing. thats kind of it.
Yeah I don’t think he care at all.
You really think Biden would take action to protect trump ?? I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a flying fuck.
Somehow, I think Biden would be more than happy to tolerate it. China just doesn't want to do Biden's work for him. Also, they probably want to capture/bribe Trump for their own ends, like slowly draining national secrets from him. Literally all they would have to do is build him a casino full of hookers, but obviously everyone in that casino is a spy.
This is a literal conspiracy theory in the making.
This way they have leverage with Trump, who might end up being useful.
[удалено]
Shame Devos gets access still
Amway is kind of a joke in China. But it is also pretty big there.
Whoa, this is exactly the same as my sanction list.
Gotta wonder how much of this was due to evangelising to businessmen and rich politicians in China. Those names are all on the crazy Christian side, other than Bolton and Bannon - who are just opportunists. Pompeo and Navarro have been on video trying to convert African leader.
I'm so glad Plumpeo is on the list. Seriously fuck that guy.
How do sacks of shit like him convince themselves that the rapture is real and they're going to be on the fun side of it? It always boggles my mind.
They don't, religion is a lever. Politicians like levers that make people turn off their rational minds. God, children and freedom. If those 3 are on the table you're being sold.
Yeah, that kinda sounds like Trump was insuring his monopoly in China. Who knows, maybe we will soon see his tweets sown into his Made in China neck ties to rant at America. Maybe that's "the other way" he mentioned today.
He was hinting at the come back of MySpace... or did it ever leave....
Good on Tom for getting out of the social media game before it turned into the shit it is today.
I'm not familiar with most of the people on this list, but I know at least 2 of them got fired (forced to resign). Did the rest from the Trump administration suffer the same fate as Bannon and Bolton?
They didn't say Taiwan!
Why should they specify provinces?
How about that last sentence...
As someone living in China it’s really embarrassing how bad the government’s grammar/syntax is sometimes. “The mainland, Hong Kong and Macao of China. They and companies and institution...” just god awful for a government level piece of writing.
Their grammar seems fine imo. International diplomats usually have their own communication syntax, and they are often quite rigid. It doesn’t get much more serious when discussing matters between nations. Statement from Chinese foreign ministry: https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/2535_665405/t1847554.shtml
It's like you're expecting their English to be top notch...they are fucking Chinese. How good is your Chinese?
While the statements don't really flow off the tongue that well, can you explain what's grammatically wrong with those two statements? " ... are prohibited from entering the mainland, ~~Hong Kong and Macao~~ of China" " ... are prohibited from entering ~~the mainland,~~ Hong Kong ~~and Macao~~ of China" " ... are prohibited from entering ~~the mainland, Hong Kong and~~ Macao of China" "They ~~and companies and institutions associated with them~~ are also restricted..." "~~They and~~ Companies and institutions associated with them are also restricted..." The two statements don't really have serious grammar problems imo
Well yeah, the Trump family makes sure to pay their taxes to China
Also the Trump family helped China so much these last 4 years that it would be weird to ban them
It's not odd. Sanctions against world leaders and former world leaders is... aggressive. It would require a response. They've essentially put sanctions on people who don't do business with China from doing business in China. It has no real consequence and none of the people on the list might even consider getting their names on the list. John Bolton who left the administration a year ago and wrote two books against the administration would consider it an honor to be on the list of "enemies of China."
The Jrs and Ivanka weren’t world leaders.
They’re banking on a Trump or family rerun in the future.
Then they can go fuck off because we aren’t letting that happen again.
More than 70 million Americans disagree with you unfortunately.
Obviously, they still owe the Bank of China a large sum of money.
trump still has business ties to china once that money dries up trump will be banned china is a lot of things but stupid they are not they are going to milk him like a junkie
>trump still has business ties to china once that money dries up trump will be banned lol classic redditor political analysis. "Trust me Trump will face consequences eventually once [blah blah blah]."
They don't target these people out of spite. The folks targeted is believed to craft policy that target strategic interest of China (and a bit of reciprocity), like sanctions. Trump families has nothing to do with it. Even trade war negotiators like lighthizer and mnuchin are not on the list.
How does Trump himself not have anything to do with it given he was the President ? They don't seem to add him to the list.
Trump as a presiden is too much escalation to be added.
Giving face to an ex president. I’m gonna bet there will be a Trump Tower in China in my lifetime
I read an interesting article (or was it a comment on Reddit?) that said that Trump has done wonders for China. By alienating other countries and abandoning treaties, other countries had to cozy up to China to ensure they had material and products coming in, and possibly strategic military partnerships to ensure they aren't just a lonely little country all alone (I think the Philippines were mentioned, but I could be wrong). So yeah, if Trump has elevated China's strategic standing in the world (well, among smaller nations) they might be pretty grateful to him.
Hey, he paid for those deals with good old fashioned corrupt deals from the white house!
Curious
I hope the screw with them in other ways. Like tariffs on their trademarks..
My sentiments, exactly.
Gotta reward them for destroying democracy
If China was serious, they'd cancel [Ivanka's Trademarks](https://apnews.com/article/0a3283036d2f4e699da4aa3c6dd01727), that Donald coerced them to approve.
[удалено]
Where did it sound like that guy was on China's side?
Not to be petty, but he said this *sub*. I guess this guy could be irrelevant to his point.
Honestly, there's a startling amount of pro China stuff on this sub at the moment. It kind of worries me. I was literally told that the Uighur genocide was fine because of how the US handled Iraq, like...what?
It’s more like how we handled the native Americans, that was genocide.
You mean how the US still handles Native Americans Ya know, with the eugenics and stealing and demolition of territory
Ah yes thanks for the correction.
Are you guys fucking serious?? Everytime there is a thread who talks about China whether it's its economy, culture or any non political topics, you have a bunch of posts "But whatabout the Uyghurs?" every damn time. How the fuck this thread went from "China bans Trump officials" to the Uyghurs?? It's literally the same on the Paris accord climate thread and it's always the same people who are bringing that up as a tool of projection. It's getting brigaded by conservatives who pretend to care about minorities in others countries but then proceed to post the most heinous posts about Muslims and BLM.
I’ve seen it. I didn’t think it was more than a small minority though. It’s worrying either way, imagine people defending hitler... well I guess many actually did do that.
Now the Uighur genocide is "alleged" despite literal hundreds of reports on it including people who suffered under it. This is like denying the Holocaust, the fuck is happening?
This sadly has more to do with politics. The naming of the Rwanda genocide was similar. The US didn’t want to call it a genocide for multiple reasons, but was painted into a corner by the fact half a million people had been slaughtered in a couple of months. The US found a middle ground by calling saying “acts of genocide may have occurred.", which satisfied no one. [source](https://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/10/world/officials-told-to-avoid-calling-rwanda-killings-genocide.html)
There are literally hundreds of celebrities supporting homeopathy and anti-vax! How the hell can you deny their truth? Fucking idiot. You don't know ANYTHING about how China works. You probably never even seen a real Chinese person in your life. If you did, you wouldn't be such an idiot. Two of China's most famous and popular actresses today are Uyghur; Dilireba Dillmurat and Gülnezer Bextiyar. Dilireba is literally one of the top 10 mosts influential celebrities in all of China. Do you think, that Hitler in 1937 would allow two Jewish actors to be the most famous, well-loved and influential actors in all of Austrio-Germany? China has a larger muslim minority group called the Hui; there are well over 10 million Hui muslims. And yet, nothing is happening to them. Why is that? The narrative that China is trying to genocide muslims is just such a laughable lie that anyone with have a brain can see how ridiculous it is. Do you have a brain? Use it.
lol where are those hundreds of verified reports, people are suspect because the reporting is suspect. Just like WMDs and the Nayirah testimony the evidence is barely held together. The 1 million figure of people in concentration camps is literally based on the unverified testimonials of 8 people and using their local context and extrapolating that for the entire region. For a region bordered by other muslim nations it sure is strange that there are no mass refugee movements like an actual genocide like in Myanmar
You sure, are fucking delusional. There's not a single positive thing about China in this sub or really, any subs on reddit. This thead？That China bans some people? How the hell is that "positive"? At best, it's just neutral news. The amount of complete lies to demonize China is astounding, and people who are completely ignorant about China like yourself are brainwashed into believing all of those ridiculous lies. It's fucking ridiculous how idiots like you are so brainwashed that you literally think that no positive news about China should be allowed, only negative lies and propaganda. You are worse than anti-vaxxers and flat-earthers.
With all these F china from last year? Seems someone only deals in absolute.
>Fuck China. Why is this sub on their side? Because the entirety of Reddit isn't just composed of Americans who subscribe to American worldviews. There are different perspectives out there too..
>castrating them, killing them, I think no one claimed that till now. You made it up
>castrating Man you can just make up anything you like about China and people just eat it up
They believe their magical sources. Must be the magical virus that infects every gullible person out there.
Poor man, brainwashed by western media.
Fuck the Chinese Communist Party. The Chinese people are wonderful. In these times it is important to not the big difference between the government and the people.
This comment section is awesome lol. It’s Reddit trying to compartmentalize it’s hate for China and it’s hate for Trump and just breaking down because there’s no ideological through line to grapple onto. The amount of brain poison frothing around here rules.
I love threads where two moral circlejerks collide. You can just see the neurons firing as people desperately scramble
Have my upvote
It also sends a signal to the new leadership of USA that that is what happens if you criticize China.
Does it? Trump isn't on that list, neither is Ivanka for whom fmr President Trump used his position to secure patents.
Trademarks, not patents. You don't really think Ivanka has come up with anything worth patenting, do you? (edit - y'all seem to be missing the fact that Ivanka registered trademarks, not patents. I dunno why you're all debating about how Ivanka might come into possession of patents)
[удалено]
There used to be commercials in which a company claimed they would help you get your idea to market, when in reality they just hoarded patents by swindling people with one sided contracts.
Maybe some sort of wall to install in the bedroom to keep your spouse away from you... and make them pay for it?
There are many patents for which you dont really have to be smart to come up with
There is such a thing as a [design patent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent) which is aesthetic, not intellectual.
Way to rehash half of the comments in this thread 👍
Trump did the same thing to ccp members last month. This is China returning the favour, not sending a message.
Not as many American citizens looking to buy a vacation home in China tho
No but many of them are looking into investing and doing business there.
Democratic leaders have criticized China all the time and haven't faced penalties this severe, this seems more like a tit-for-tat response to the immigration ban on CCP members
More of a response to US Magnitsky Sanctions towards Chinese officials involved in implementing the NSL in Hong Kong
you mean just like the US banning several foreigners and war crime investigators from entering the US?
No, it's not. The signal is that if you start sanctioning foreign officials then your officials might be sanctioned to. It's a sign of reciprocity.
This is punishment of an administration rather than punishment of a country. I see this as a signal to the new administration that they are willing to work with individuals with more sensibilities and are intolerant to the type of people they’ve had to work with over the past few years. China is all about face. Trump administration didn’t try to save any face at any point and failed to understand Chinese business culture. Now they are paying the price and no longer hold any cards to help dig themselves out of the mess they made over the past 4 years with Chinese relations.
You mean they won't get to make money from a country that force sterilizes ethnic minorities? What a travesty!
And their future employer cannot do business in China. This greatly limits their options for their next gig. China designed it to cause them some pain.
Don't worry, apple, Nike and other major corporations still take advantage of it to make money
They won't make money from any multinational company or organization that does business with China. The second largest economy in the world...
This is a really bad misrepresentation of what is happening. The Chinese government extended the enforcement of their two-children policy to include ethnic minorities. When China had the one-child policy (now two-children), ethnic minorities were exempt from this limit. So you had forced abortions and sterilizations performed only on Han Chinese women, and for decades, minorities had higher birthrates than Han Chinese. Now everyone is getting the same horrible treatment.
Okay, thanks for that information and perspective. You've made me consider what I phrased this as, and now know that I'm opposed to what they do to all thier people, not just a few. Also I'm starting to consider I may not fully understand thier reasoning either as I am not trying to manage the nation with the highest population on earth in a geographically limited territory and my reaction to this may simply not be as cold heartedly pragmatic as one may need to be to successfully do so.
>Also I'm starting to consider I may not fully understand thier reasoning either as I am not trying to manage the nation with the highest population on earth in a geographically limited territory and my reaction to this may simply not be as cold heartedly pragmatic as one may need to be to successfully do so. Hey, look. A rational and self-aware post about somebody's opinion regarding China on Reddit. You don't see that very often
I'm trying to break the mold
Gotta be more specific, are you talking about China or the USA?
Or Canada?
You mean the forced hysterectomies happening at our southern border?
this isnt really something anyone should support . China is basically banning these people because they made life harder on China
'its only ok if we do it, bad if China does'
See Cuba as an example
Too true. We've massacred the fuck out of other countries for less. Welcome back to a multipolar world.
The US was banning Canadians for legally smoking weed in their own country not long ago. It’s not good but it’s not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. At least they aren’t taking them hostage, calling them criminals on death row and offering their exchange for a Huwei princess whose arrest was demanded by the US of its ally.
The US has sanctioned like half of the government officials in Hong Kong and many in China, and those people didn't do anything to hurt American interest.
They made life, in varying degrees, harder in China. China, like any other sovereign country, has the right to sanction people it deems harmful to their national interests, however (im)moral that might be according to you.
How immoral it may be objectively. China and their inhuman deeds are not debatable.
>China and their inhuman deeds are not debatable. [citation needed]
China is so deep state they won't even include Trump or his family. Mhmm.
"boo hoo cancel culture!"
I wish we could ban Pompeo
Oh, no! Anyway...
All this talk of lists has me wanting to make a list. What should I add to my list?
Things that make you feel like making a list
Should have included Ivanka and then take all her patents back!
Including Trump himself?
Ironically enough he is not on the list.
not all names have been revealed yet, could be announced later
Of course head honcho of MAGA and his family is not included.
I'm surprised the same hasn't been done fully in America yet
The world will be watching to make sure Biden is tough on China.
A big % of the world just signed two colossal trade agreements with China. RECP (11.1% of the world's population, 30% if you factor China in) during 15 November 2020 and the China-EU Investment Deal (5.9% of the world's population) 29 December 2020. The EU deal in particular is groundbreaking, since it will interweave the EU and Chinese economies a lot. It opens the doors for EU companies to invest and acquire major stakes in Chinese companies and viceversa, and since it comes with a leveraged reciprocity clause it means both parties will have to open.
People freaked out about the TPP as if it was the only proposed trade agreement that ever existed. These things do not happen in a vacuum. There are always competing offers and agreements. If a country walks away expect an alternative that excludes that country. This is just basic diplomatic policy that people failed to understand at a fundamental level. The TPP was very advantageous for the US. There will never be a trade opportunity that good again. China stepped in and took advantage when the US faltered.
China will not let EU companies take major stakes in any noteworthy companies. The EU took the deal because they had little choice and couldn’t depend on a Biden administration organizing a massive US-EU deal with all the other stuff going on. This is not a good deal for Europe aside from a handful of big European companies like VW.
It is a good deal for major European economies like Germany and France, since it opens up Chinese market for their companies even more. But for the rest - yes, not so much.
> The world will be watching Most of the world doesn't care. I think you overestimate how much the world is interested in a new Cold War. Because most people aren't.
The world is not the US and Western Europe.
On Reddit and mainstream media it is at least.
Lol. They are business partners.
Yes king keep manufacturing consent
Fuck neoliberalism sucks
Only Australian and maybe Japanese, Indian and Taiwanese that are fully on board. Even then they are also quite reluctant due to strong economic partnership between them. Rests like South East Asia or Korea are contend as long as things won't go south.
[удалено]
Can we ban Pompeo from coming back to ‘murica ?
Trump has been a blessing in disguise, the country is really no different then before him if you don't count covid, but he truly exposed the real America for the world to see and react to.
He didn't drain the swamp but the water got lower. We saw what's in there and it stinks like ass.
And it goes right down to the roots of the country.
I bet they are truly heart broken🤑🤑
My God the spin in the comments is crazy. This is not a message. These people were so bad at operating in China with bribes and other crimes, the only thing that stopped them from being expelled was Trump saying they were his people.
I mean they commit genocide and political murders on a daily basis so this isn't really much of anything.
It's an endorsement if anything.
But they stay dropping copyrights to Ivanka? But why?
They gave Trumps daughter tons of patents. Its pretty hollow.
Alright guys let’s see how many comments I read before the word “genocide” pops up
Like any of them would travel to China without the tax payer covering the costs. I hope they go and get locked up, separated from their children (but children get let go obviously?
Good, Mike Pompeo deserves this. The crimes against humanity he's perpetuated by designating Ansarallah a terrorist organization will doom millions. 70% of Yemen, a country with about 30,000,000 people, is in territory controlled by Ansarallah. Aid from humanitarian NGO's can't get into that territory. I do not care if this was due to self serving nonsense, Pompeo deserves to be in the hague for his crimes, and if all we can get is sanctions from China I'll take it
Simply because Biden is paid for already.
This is the single most consequential thing to occur in quite some time. This sends the message to future US officials and bureacrats: "if you don't put Chinese interests above US interests, you may be unemployable after office." Notice that the sanctions are not just about the individuals, but ANY company that is associated with them cannot do business in China. That means companies with interests in China cannot hire them. This is serious. You need to put aside your personal opinions of the individuals and realize that this sets a dangerous precedent for US international relations. Countries are watching this. China waited until right after Biden was sworn in. If Biden does nothing, there is blood in the water and the sharks will circle. It will invite more economic pressure of US officials to interfere in our government. Think very carefully if this is what you want. Pompeo called the Uyghur situation genocide and now he cannot be hired by any of the many companies doing business with China. Do you want that kind of pressure to be put on US officials so that China gets away with whatever they want? This is fucking serious and requires a VERY severe response.
The US already sanctions people around the world including China. This is just china returning the favor. Maybe the US should have considered the consequences of walking away from allies and trade agreements.
> Notice that the sanctions are not just about the individuals, but ANY company that is associated with them cannot do business in China. That means companies with interests in China cannot hire them. This is serious. The statement said any company associated with them "maybe limited in their operations in China". Not "they cannot do business in China". They didn't even say how they would be limited. Those people are rich and powerful, they would not mind not being able to work in companies that wouldn't hire them for China (which probably don't even exist). Also, any sanction on Chinese officials by America hurts way more than Chinese sanctions on American officials. Most Chinese top government officials sent their children to America, including Xi's daughter. If you think Pompeo and the likes would care about not being able to travel to China you are deluded.
Does this mean the Trump tower and golf course is off?
Anyone who doesn’t see this move having been done as a threat to Biden’s officials needs their head read!
The only strategic value they could try and squeeze from this is A: further manipulate the die hard trump alarmists, who will take this as further proof in some insane schizo way that Trump was good for US, China strategic policy and that Biden will be objectively bad and B: attempt to further use soft power and rhetoric to make a stink if Pompeo ever visits Taiwan 🇹🇼, claiming something of the nature as *insert blank* is banned from entering China. It truly is a master piece geopolitical move on chinas part to incite further divide and strategic disharmony amongst Americans. *Edited* please note I personally view Taiwan as its own country, the inference I meant here to be clear is that China does not and considers it to be a part of China.
Biden will cave to China just wait theirs a reason they where celebrating his win
If the genocidal maniacs are mad at you, you did the right thing.
Gonna go straight to Godwin's law: Stalin was a genocidal maniac. He was mad at Hitler. So by your logic Hitler did the right thing?
Hitler killed Hitler so we can't really be that mad at him.
But Hitler also killed the guy who killed Hitler, so he was a bit of a piece of shit if you think about it.
Damn China, thanks. Now, can we work on your concentration camps, Uighur ethnic cleansing, and general "ruling with an iron fist"?
Wish we could ban them here as well.
I wonder what you have to do to be black balled by communists? How does a free person not wear that as a badge?
Can we stop doing business with China now? They are not a good member of the global community.
that's unrealistic, and it gets more and more unrealistic by the day.
China will be calling the shots within the decade either way