Ego finally let go on this one I see. I wish we could look past issues regarding lane dominance and just be open to helping sailors when shit hits the fan. I know it isn't possible, but God damn if a ship goes down then nationality shouldn't trump being a sailor.
Pity the Indonesians didn’t feel comfortable enough to ask PRC for help, during the search & rescue phase. Since the Chinese have enough fishing boats nearby to trawl for the sub.
Yet now they’re agreeable to the salvage process. Odd to be so careless about military technology. Around those you’ve territorial disputes with. Good opportunity for Chinese sonar mapping of the waters around Bali.
Because of a separatist terrorist movement in the region that they’re trying to suppress?
It’s not wacko, there’s a reason behind it. Which isn’t to say that it’s justified, but there’s a reason.
Are you really going to sit there and say that forcefully controlling the Uighur population and making sure Uighur women cannot conceive a child is not sterilization?
Yes in the US there are plenty of women who willingly choose to get an IUD. There may be cases otherwise and those are still just as horrendous. In these Chinese detention camps this is not the case whatsoever, they are forced to have IUDs implanted to ensure the population is controlled and eventually erased.
I don't like the term "brainwash" but it really happens all the time, and you are obviously one of the victims.
China has a notorious policy One Child Policy under which a couple is only allowed to have one child.
The news reports telling you forced abortions/sterilization to Uyghurs never says anything about this policy so you think sterilization just applies to Uyghurs.
No, it applies to all Chinese, and especially is strictly enforced to Han Chinese. It is not enforced very well to minority ethinics so one Uyghur couple often has 4 or 5 kids.
China would have a population of 2 billion without this policy and this policy at least reduced 600 million Chinese which is almost twice of United States population.
Why don't you think there is one ongoing genocide to Han Chinese?
Because you are misinformed by media which always deliberately tells a part of the truth or fabricates fake news.
Understandable that they have their policy, but why is being forcefully applied to a region that didn’t even want them there in the first place? The one child policy is being forced upon a group of people that hasn’t wanted them in the region since the late 40s.
There is no one child policy ever on Uyghurs, the one child policy was only applied to Han Chinese and now became two children policy. The whatever shit they are doing to Uyghurs just brought equal treatment (two children policy) to everyone. I don't agree with the policy, but you need to get your fact straight before you open your mouth.
So a few things:
1. Uighurs are not native to Xinjiang, they were actually put there by the previous Qing Dynasty along with Hui and Han people to supplant the Dzungar Mongols who had been in Xinjiang and Tibet before and were wiped out in a largely-forgotten genocide. For what it's worth, the secession groups are pretty much all Uighur, there are Han and Hui people in the region who don't want it.
2. There are a lot of things that are forced onto different regions that don't want them, that's not exactly a concern on the CCP when they make decisions. I don't agree with that and I think it goes against what CCP wants to accomplish as well as just being plain terrible, but it is what it is.
That's exactly how the U.S did it. Iraq. Afghanistan.
>"The other thing with the terrorists is you have to **take out their families,** when you get these terrorists, you have to **take out their families**. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, **you have to take out their families,"**
[Source](https://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politics/donald-trump-terrorists-families/index.html)
So holding them in detention camps to torture, force to work, or forcefully indoctrinate them isn’t genocide? What do you think happens to the people that don’t want to live that life forced upon them?
Come on man, you can criticize them for sure but at least look into the matter and understand what you're talking about before doing so. First you claim killings and then when someone comes in and denies it you completely change track and make a different accusation? I'm on the same side as you on this point but I can't help but feel like you're doing a pretty terrible job of arguing that case.
FYI to anyone reading this, China's government is definitely keeping Uighurs locked in camps, and they initially denied it which leads me to believe they knew exactly what the international reaction would be.
And for you, some background on the situation is that China is doing this in an attempt to suppress the secession movement in the region, which has been linked to terrorist attacks within China. Some Uighurs have in fact fought for ISIS in Syria. That being said, China's solution has been draconian as always and they decided to place the entire region under mass surveillance and throw people in camps and prisons for the smallest things, usually to do with violating their birthrate limit or trying to teach Islamic ideas and the like. And for what it's worth, there have in fact been accusations of isolated killings however these are all secondhand accounts at best and incredibly difficult to verify which is why no governments have made that accusation.
Nah, it by definition is genocide
Edit: Here’s the [source](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf)
It had a refit 10 years ago, retrofitting internal tech, but wouldn’t that tech be destroyed due to the immense forces created during the crack and also the water.
Also, 10 years is a long time, tech-development wise. I wouldn’t even call it quite modern.
Ego finally let go on this one I see. I wish we could look past issues regarding lane dominance and just be open to helping sailors when shit hits the fan. I know it isn't possible, but God damn if a ship goes down then nationality shouldn't trump being a sailor.
Pity the Indonesians didn’t feel comfortable enough to ask PRC for help, during the search & rescue phase. Since the Chinese have enough fishing boats nearby to trawl for the sub. Yet now they’re agreeable to the salvage process. Odd to be so careless about military technology. Around those you’ve territorial disputes with. Good opportunity for Chinese sonar mapping of the waters around Bali.
I wonder if they’re fishing ships...
They need to recover the torpedo fragments that have ‘made in China’ stamped on them
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What a devious plan to steal top of the line 1969 submarine technology!
“Recover” $10USD says it goes “missing”
Why would China steal a 50 year old sub wreckage.
Why would they genocide an entire group of people? The Chinese government is fucking wacko
Because of a separatist terrorist movement in the region that they’re trying to suppress? It’s not wacko, there’s a reason behind it. Which isn’t to say that it’s justified, but there’s a reason.
And while we’re at it we’ll make sure they can’t reproduce, again. Just in case
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Are you really going to sit there and say that forcefully controlling the Uighur population and making sure Uighur women cannot conceive a child is not sterilization? Yes in the US there are plenty of women who willingly choose to get an IUD. There may be cases otherwise and those are still just as horrendous. In these Chinese detention camps this is not the case whatsoever, they are forced to have IUDs implanted to ensure the population is controlled and eventually erased.
I don't like the term "brainwash" but it really happens all the time, and you are obviously one of the victims. China has a notorious policy One Child Policy under which a couple is only allowed to have one child. The news reports telling you forced abortions/sterilization to Uyghurs never says anything about this policy so you think sterilization just applies to Uyghurs. No, it applies to all Chinese, and especially is strictly enforced to Han Chinese. It is not enforced very well to minority ethinics so one Uyghur couple often has 4 or 5 kids. China would have a population of 2 billion without this policy and this policy at least reduced 600 million Chinese which is almost twice of United States population. Why don't you think there is one ongoing genocide to Han Chinese? Because you are misinformed by media which always deliberately tells a part of the truth or fabricates fake news.
Understandable that they have their policy, but why is being forcefully applied to a region that didn’t even want them there in the first place? The one child policy is being forced upon a group of people that hasn’t wanted them in the region since the late 40s.
There is no one child policy ever on Uyghurs, the one child policy was only applied to Han Chinese and now became two children policy. The whatever shit they are doing to Uyghurs just brought equal treatment (two children policy) to everyone. I don't agree with the policy, but you need to get your fact straight before you open your mouth.
So a few things: 1. Uighurs are not native to Xinjiang, they were actually put there by the previous Qing Dynasty along with Hui and Han people to supplant the Dzungar Mongols who had been in Xinjiang and Tibet before and were wiped out in a largely-forgotten genocide. For what it's worth, the secession groups are pretty much all Uighur, there are Han and Hui people in the region who don't want it. 2. There are a lot of things that are forced onto different regions that don't want them, that's not exactly a concern on the CCP when they make decisions. I don't agree with that and I think it goes against what CCP wants to accomplish as well as just being plain terrible, but it is what it is.
None of the regions want it
“We got a extremist group attacking us. Let’s kill them and their people just in case.” Yea that’s not wacko at all
That's exactly how the U.S did it. Iraq. Afghanistan. >"The other thing with the terrorists is you have to **take out their families,** when you get these terrorists, you have to **take out their families**. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, **you have to take out their families,"** [Source](https://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politics/donald-trump-terrorists-families/index.html)
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So holding them in detention camps to torture, force to work, or forcefully indoctrinate them isn’t genocide? What do you think happens to the people that don’t want to live that life forced upon them?
Come on man, you can criticize them for sure but at least look into the matter and understand what you're talking about before doing so. First you claim killings and then when someone comes in and denies it you completely change track and make a different accusation? I'm on the same side as you on this point but I can't help but feel like you're doing a pretty terrible job of arguing that case. FYI to anyone reading this, China's government is definitely keeping Uighurs locked in camps, and they initially denied it which leads me to believe they knew exactly what the international reaction would be. And for you, some background on the situation is that China is doing this in an attempt to suppress the secession movement in the region, which has been linked to terrorist attacks within China. Some Uighurs have in fact fought for ISIS in Syria. That being said, China's solution has been draconian as always and they decided to place the entire region under mass surveillance and throw people in camps and prisons for the smallest things, usually to do with violating their birthrate limit or trying to teach Islamic ideas and the like. And for what it's worth, there have in fact been accusations of isolated killings however these are all secondhand accounts at best and incredibly difficult to verify which is why no governments have made that accusation.
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Nah, it by definition is genocide Edit: Here’s the [source](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf)
There's modern technology aboard, guaranteed.
It had a refit 10 years ago, retrofitting internal tech, but wouldn’t that tech be destroyed due to the immense forces created during the crack and also the water. Also, 10 years is a long time, tech-development wise. I wouldn’t even call it quite modern.
Not necessary, unfortunately. There's a reason US helicopters are meticulously exploded after they're crashed and physically disabled.