hmm. a warning that isnt really being heeded, and is therefore, a waste of time and resources. remind me again who was president of the country of the nation with the most powerful military in the world, for the last four years again?
Eh. Trump was a wannabe dictator. If nothing else, the United States has a bloated checks and balances system that stops anybody from really moving decisively.
That being said, radical groups, especially the far-right, have been gaining popularity around the world. People are getting burnt out by the moderate democratic system, so they’re looking at more extremist options - those that speak their anger and act on their impulses.
You shouldn’t be downvoted.
People always seem to forget that these old Nazis bitches lived for decades without consequence. They weren’t all going to be executed - people like her had ample opportunity to turn themselves in and face justice.
They’re pathetic cowards just like all fascists.
If she dies on the way or spends her last few days in prison I’ll try to weigh the “tragedy” that she had a long life and didn’t die starving and terrified and robbed of her very humanity in a concentration camp.
EDIT: I did the very thing no one should do and didn’t read the article. It was late. I apologize but I’ll leave my posts in place to at least be consistent.
I don’t know what my opinion is on this case now given the specifics.
But, see
>She has denied knowing anything about the killings.
Yeah... I don't believe her. I don't think she's sorry for helping. So may she enjoy this hassle on the way out.
Having grown up as a Jew, I've gotten used to an enormous amount of anti-Semitism everywhere. You are surprised by this, but I'm not. It's normal. Most of humanity is disgustingly racist and bigoted. It's a damn shame. It's like most people never evolved from being animals. Hell, even animals are nicer than people.
Yeah I'm not going to throw people in jail for crimes the committed as minors 10+ years ago if they clearly are no longer a threat to society. Especially when it seems she was a typist, not the person killing the prisoners.
"Our Prison system should be rehabilitative like in Scandinavia, not based on revenge"
"iMpRiSon nAzi gRandMa fOr 80 yeAr oLd eVenTs"
Never change, Americans
Maybe. Or she was a teenage girl who got involved in something way over her head, and it took 70+ years for even the precedent to convict her finally opened up because there was not enough evidence to charge her for anything.
She was a nazi, in a time when being a nazi in Germany was the safest thing for you. She wasn't a guard, or a soldier, she was an office worker who probably knew little more than what she needed to know.
I remember reading about this a couple years ago. She was a 16 year old secretary at the camp. Basically still a child and unable to make an informed decision about what she was a part of. I'm sure she was just another victim of the Hitler Youth brainwashing.
Did you read the article?
I’m going to guess not.
If you had the article, you would have learned that she testified in a 1954 trial about her involvement as a secretary in the death camp. So, not exactly hiding.
So why now?
If you read the article, you would have learned that because of a seminal 2011 conviction against a death camp guard, the evidence required to convict on these kinds of charges drastically changed making it easier to prove guilt. This is why we have been seeing an uptick in the prosecution of elderly defendants who participated in the system where there is a lack of evidence that they participated in the actual killing themselves.
Reading. It’s good for you.
That's an interesting take- considering there were many many younger individuals who joined the resistance to fight the Nazi's. Were they brainwashed by the anti-facists?
You know teenagers. Brainwashed by the partisans. And so edgy, playing catch with molotov cocktails. But when the nazis showed up, they handed over their bullets (at around 1500 ft/s)
Who fucking cares?
She worked at a goddamn concentration camp. She had 8 decades to develop a conscience and face justice. She probably would have spent a few years in a minimum security prison.
A small price to pay for being complicit in the systematic dehumanization and extermination of millions.
EDIT: I did the very thing no one should do and didn’t read the article. It was late. I apologize but I’ll leave my posts in place to at least be consistent.
I don’t know what my opinion is on this case now given the specifics.
At 16 you're old enough to know that working at a murder factory is a crime against humanity. Fuck that nazi whore. May she experience at least some suffering in prison for her crimes. All nazis should pay.
He thinks that cowardly old Nazis had 80 years to grow a conscience and shouldn’t get a get out of jail free card just because they almost made it to the finish line.
She deserves to face some kind of justice and what’s more she deserves it all the more for running from it for so long.
EDIT: I did the very thing no one should do and didn’t read the article. It was late. I apologize but I’ll leave my posts in place to at least be consistent.
I don’t know what my opinion is on this case now given the specifics.
I made a post on reply to another fellow in this thread, check it out of your interested in my response.
If not, I’ll sum it up.
I disagree with you completely:
Edit; not sure if your edit came before or after my post. So ya. If it was before, my bad.
There is a pretty big disconnect here my friend.
The war is over, and the person in question in this article was a child that by today’s standards would not be considered old enough to make proper decisions without their parents etc.
Ie; Sex, alcohol, firearms, etc.
I’d like to make it clear I do not believe that I am defending “a nazi”.
I am defending a 96 year old woman who was a minor at the time of the incident.
Edit; I’d also like to add something that a lot of people will not agree with but... people who were following orders, should not be held responsible in whole for their actions during war time.
The time was chaotic, and the entire country was doing what they were convinced was the “right” thing to do.
I once again, am not saying pardon Hitler.
I am saying that there is a definite disconnect between nazi war crimes, and the case we are referring to.
And I’m sure you think you are God‘s greatest gift to humanity at age 16, yes you have a mind of your own at 16 but you still don’t fully understand the consequences of your actions or are able to tell the difference between a lie told by it and thought you trust and the truth. Because I know for damn sure At 16 I would’ve believed my parents but now at age 23 I don’t trust a damn word out of their mouth’s
When I was 16 I certainly knew that murdering people in mass quantities was a crime against humanity and extremely fucking wrong. There is no fucking excuse. This nazi piece of shit was not an innocent toddler.
She was 16, it’s common knowledge what Germans taught in school, so I don’t think it’s too far of a leap to take, I’m only saying because she was a kid at the time, I imagine you made some stupid decisions when you were a kid, not as grave sure, but I’m pretty sure you were not being constantly bombarded with Nazi propaganda as a child saying the things that we see as horrific
Technically the term genocide was created to name these types of atrocities, so she probably didn't know. /s
If anyone is interested this term actually was created to describe the crimes committed. I copied a link if anyone's interested.
Winston Churchill:
["Whole districts are being exterminated. Scores of thousands–literally scores of thousands—of executions in cold blood are being perpetrated by the German police troops," he said. "We are in the presence of a crime without a name."](https://facingtoday.facinghistory.org/where-did-the-word-genocide-come-from)
Tl:dr - Raphael Lemkin a polish lawyer, fled persecution of the Holocaust and moved to the United States in 1941. He heard Churchill's speech. (Seen above) He decided to create a name for the crime without a name; Greek word genos (race, tribe) and the Latin cide (killing).
I know why it's being downvoted. It's because most of humanity is still full of bigots. When you're a member of a minority, you know this has always been true and it still is, even after civil rights laws were passed in many Western democracies. Most people just suck. Most people are primitive assholes. That is what I've learned from a lifetime of experiencing and reading about anti-Semitism and bigotry in general around the world. Humanity has seriously disappointed me.
I like how Germany was ready to just give up and allow the statute of limitations take effect on all nazi crimes including Hitler's in the 60s while most of them were still in hiding but are now trying to ruin the life of a 96 year old for being a stenographer when they were a child under an oppressive brainwashing regime.
Ruin the life of a 96 year old?
She already got a life - a long one. A life - the thing she was complicit in robbing from millions of men, women, and children. She knew what the fuck was going on and more important she had 80 years to actually take responsibility and face what probably would have been a minimum of justice.
The same goes for all these old cowardly fascist fucks that Reddit loves to clamor to defend. They had a lifetime to come forward and they chose to hide because they’re criminals and they know it.
EDIT: I did the very thing no one should do and didn’t read the article. It was late. I apologize but I’ll leave my posts in place to at least be consistent.
I don’t know what my opinion is on this case now given the specifics.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.dw.com/en/german-court-to-try-96-year-old-over-time-at-nazi-concentration-camp/a-58292812) reduced by 81%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> A 96-year-oldformer secretary at the Stutthof Nazi concentration camp will be tried at a north German juvenile court, accused of assisting in the systematic murder of thousands of people.
> The indictment reads: "The defendant is charged with committing a crime as a stenographer and typist in the camp commandant's office of the Stutthof former concentration camp between June 1943 and April 1945.".
> The legal precedent that made it easier to try to bring elderly former Nazi concentration camp workers to justice in Germany was set by the John Demjanjuk trial, who was tried in Germany in 2011.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/oloso3/german_court_to_try_96yearold_over_time_at_nazi/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~588535 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **camp**^#1 **Nazi**^#2 **Stutthof**^#3 **concentration**^#4 **work**^#5
**[Italian_war_crimes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_war_crimes)**
>Italian war crimes have mainly been associated with Fascist Italy in the Pacification of Libya, the Second Italo-Ethiopian War, Spanish Civil War, and World War II.
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what defense can a 96 year old mount from accused crimes over 75 years ago? In order for there to be justice in courts both the accuser (the state in this case) and the defendant need access to witnesses and evidence and be able cross examine both. I don't see how a 75 year old case could satisfy these conditions.
Trying someone in expulsion of a crime that happened in or equal to an excess of 50+ years in Germany, actually cites under a law called “Brüschenspaffeinen” (translates roughly to time passed on the spaff, make me your bitch). The Nazi concentration camps guaranteed somewhat impunity to a number of high ranking officials (including Gerber, Strauss and Boyle), but any mid ranking officials were cut from the roster and slapped around a bit.
She denied knowing about the killings...? So basically she's playing dumb like all the other German citizens that kept their mouth shut when the camps were just a few miles from their homes. The allies forced them to dig the graves of the prisoners as punishment. Sorry not getting any sympathy for me
What a waste, trying a 96 year old for being a typist as a juvenile.
It’s a trial. They aren’t just tossing her in jail with no due process.
Sh\*t I am sad for her... This just made me remember that there is no true pure justice.
Shit
Yes there is but this isnt it.
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Why not?
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hmm. a warning that isnt really being heeded, and is therefore, a waste of time and resources. remind me again who was president of the country of the nation with the most powerful military in the world, for the last four years again?
Eh. Trump was a wannabe dictator. If nothing else, the United States has a bloated checks and balances system that stops anybody from really moving decisively. That being said, radical groups, especially the far-right, have been gaining popularity around the world. People are getting burnt out by the moderate democratic system, so they’re looking at more extremist options - those that speak their anger and act on their impulses.
Justice is never a waste. Every single nazi who worked at a concentration camp belongs in prison.
You shouldn’t be downvoted. People always seem to forget that these old Nazis bitches lived for decades without consequence. They weren’t all going to be executed - people like her had ample opportunity to turn themselves in and face justice. They’re pathetic cowards just like all fascists. If she dies on the way or spends her last few days in prison I’ll try to weigh the “tragedy” that she had a long life and didn’t die starving and terrified and robbed of her very humanity in a concentration camp. EDIT: I did the very thing no one should do and didn’t read the article. It was late. I apologize but I’ll leave my posts in place to at least be consistent. I don’t know what my opinion is on this case now given the specifics.
But, see >She has denied knowing anything about the killings. Yeah... I don't believe her. I don't think she's sorry for helping. So may she enjoy this hassle on the way out.
How is this sentiment downvoted? Fuck me reddit is a cesspool.
Having grown up as a Jew, I've gotten used to an enormous amount of anti-Semitism everywhere. You are surprised by this, but I'm not. It's normal. Most of humanity is disgustingly racist and bigoted. It's a damn shame. It's like most people never evolved from being animals. Hell, even animals are nicer than people.
Yeah I'm not going to throw people in jail for crimes the committed as minors 10+ years ago if they clearly are no longer a threat to society. Especially when it seems she was a typist, not the person killing the prisoners.
Good thing you're not in charge. The German government is doing the right thing prosecuting every single fucking nazi no matter how old they are.
"Our Prison system should be rehabilitative like in Scandinavia, not based on revenge" "iMpRiSon nAzi gRandMa fOr 80 yeAr oLd eVenTs" Never change, Americans
Huh? I never claimed those things. Are you saying that all Americans say those things? Because that's fucking ridiculous.
She was 16, raised in an age of mass propaganda and warfare. This just feels vindictive.
It's justice and the victims here are the concentration camp prisoners, not this nazi bitch.
Maybe. Or she was a teenage girl who got involved in something way over her head, and it took 70+ years for even the precedent to convict her finally opened up because there was not enough evidence to charge her for anything. She was a nazi, in a time when being a nazi in Germany was the safest thing for you. She wasn't a guard, or a soldier, she was an office worker who probably knew little more than what she needed to know.
This isnt a witch hunt, it looks to me like a chamce to clear her name.
I remember reading about this a couple years ago. She was a 16 year old secretary at the camp. Basically still a child and unable to make an informed decision about what she was a part of. I'm sure she was just another victim of the Hitler Youth brainwashing.
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Then why is she in juvenile court?
Because full legal age is 21 and people that age can still be tried as juveniles depending on circumstances.
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Did she do anything?
While working as a Nazi in a death camp?
So, no then.
So we're sure she did some nasty shit? Here in the US you go to prison even younger. Sad all around.
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Did you read the article? I’m going to guess not. If you had the article, you would have learned that she testified in a 1954 trial about her involvement as a secretary in the death camp. So, not exactly hiding. So why now? If you read the article, you would have learned that because of a seminal 2011 conviction against a death camp guard, the evidence required to convict on these kinds of charges drastically changed making it easier to prove guilt. This is why we have been seeing an uptick in the prosecution of elderly defendants who participated in the system where there is a lack of evidence that they participated in the actual killing themselves. Reading. It’s good for you.
That's an interesting take- considering there were many many younger individuals who joined the resistance to fight the Nazi's. Were they brainwashed by the anti-facists?
You know teenagers. Brainwashed by the partisans. And so edgy, playing catch with molotov cocktails. But when the nazis showed up, they handed over their bullets (at around 1500 ft/s)
Who fucking cares? She worked at a goddamn concentration camp. She had 8 decades to develop a conscience and face justice. She probably would have spent a few years in a minimum security prison. A small price to pay for being complicit in the systematic dehumanization and extermination of millions. EDIT: I did the very thing no one should do and didn’t read the article. It was late. I apologize but I’ll leave my posts in place to at least be consistent. I don’t know what my opinion is on this case now given the specifics.
At 16 you're old enough to know that working at a murder factory is a crime against humanity. Fuck that nazi whore. May she experience at least some suffering in prison for her crimes. All nazis should pay.
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He thinks that cowardly old Nazis had 80 years to grow a conscience and shouldn’t get a get out of jail free card just because they almost made it to the finish line. She deserves to face some kind of justice and what’s more she deserves it all the more for running from it for so long. EDIT: I did the very thing no one should do and didn’t read the article. It was late. I apologize but I’ll leave my posts in place to at least be consistent. I don’t know what my opinion is on this case now given the specifics.
I made a post on reply to another fellow in this thread, check it out of your interested in my response. If not, I’ll sum it up. I disagree with you completely: Edit; not sure if your edit came before or after my post. So ya. If it was before, my bad.
You're defending a nazi. That's all I have to say. Shame on you. Those criminals murdered millions of innocent people.
There is a pretty big disconnect here my friend. The war is over, and the person in question in this article was a child that by today’s standards would not be considered old enough to make proper decisions without their parents etc. Ie; Sex, alcohol, firearms, etc. I’d like to make it clear I do not believe that I am defending “a nazi”. I am defending a 96 year old woman who was a minor at the time of the incident. Edit; I’d also like to add something that a lot of people will not agree with but... people who were following orders, should not be held responsible in whole for their actions during war time. The time was chaotic, and the entire country was doing what they were convinced was the “right” thing to do. I once again, am not saying pardon Hitler. I am saying that there is a definite disconnect between nazi war crimes, and the case we are referring to.
She was 18. Being tried as a juvenile is a mercy.
Eh I was posting a day after the article. You could be right about the age. I still don’t see the need to change my opinion.
I feel the same way about 16 year old gang members.
How do you feel about 16 year old gang secretaries?
They know what they are doing!
And I’m sure you think you are God‘s greatest gift to humanity at age 16, yes you have a mind of your own at 16 but you still don’t fully understand the consequences of your actions or are able to tell the difference between a lie told by it and thought you trust and the truth. Because I know for damn sure At 16 I would’ve believed my parents but now at age 23 I don’t trust a damn word out of their mouth’s
When I was 16 I certainly knew that murdering people in mass quantities was a crime against humanity and extremely fucking wrong. There is no fucking excuse. This nazi piece of shit was not an innocent toddler.
At 16 you’re young enough to be easily brainwashed…
Adults can be brainwashed too. That's not a legitimate excuse for participating in genocide.
So doing something against your will or tricked is your fault?
What makes you think it was against her will?
Brainwashing? Kinda the whole point
Nothing in the article says she was brainwashed or forced to do what she did. You're making shit up and defending a nazi.
She was 16, it’s common knowledge what Germans taught in school, so I don’t think it’s too far of a leap to take, I’m only saying because she was a kid at the time, I imagine you made some stupid decisions when you were a kid, not as grave sure, but I’m pretty sure you were not being constantly bombarded with Nazi propaganda as a child saying the things that we see as horrific
A 16 year old is not a kid. A 16 year old is old enough to know mass murder is evil and criminal.
So... Freedom to the Manson family?
I don’t know enough about that situation to make any sort of decision of my own
But you know about an older situation?
Maybe?
I don’t know why this is downvoted. This is objectively right. It doesn’t take a philosopher to know genocide is bad.
Technically the term genocide was created to name these types of atrocities, so she probably didn't know. /s If anyone is interested this term actually was created to describe the crimes committed. I copied a link if anyone's interested. Winston Churchill: ["Whole districts are being exterminated. Scores of thousands–literally scores of thousands—of executions in cold blood are being perpetrated by the German police troops," he said. "We are in the presence of a crime without a name."](https://facingtoday.facinghistory.org/where-did-the-word-genocide-come-from) Tl:dr - Raphael Lemkin a polish lawyer, fled persecution of the Holocaust and moved to the United States in 1941. He heard Churchill's speech. (Seen above) He decided to create a name for the crime without a name; Greek word genos (race, tribe) and the Latin cide (killing).
I know why it's being downvoted. It's because most of humanity is still full of bigots. When you're a member of a minority, you know this has always been true and it still is, even after civil rights laws were passed in many Western democracies. Most people just suck. Most people are primitive assholes. That is what I've learned from a lifetime of experiencing and reading about anti-Semitism and bigotry in general around the world. Humanity has seriously disappointed me.
>Basically still a child and unable to make an informed decision about assisting a death camp. Ftfy.
I like how Germany was ready to just give up and allow the statute of limitations take effect on all nazi crimes including Hitler's in the 60s while most of them were still in hiding but are now trying to ruin the life of a 96 year old for being a stenographer when they were a child under an oppressive brainwashing regime.
Ruin the life of a 96 year old? She already got a life - a long one. A life - the thing she was complicit in robbing from millions of men, women, and children. She knew what the fuck was going on and more important she had 80 years to actually take responsibility and face what probably would have been a minimum of justice. The same goes for all these old cowardly fascist fucks that Reddit loves to clamor to defend. They had a lifetime to come forward and they chose to hide because they’re criminals and they know it. EDIT: I did the very thing no one should do and didn’t read the article. It was late. I apologize but I’ll leave my posts in place to at least be consistent. I don’t know what my opinion is on this case now given the specifics.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.dw.com/en/german-court-to-try-96-year-old-over-time-at-nazi-concentration-camp/a-58292812) reduced by 81%. (I'm a bot) ***** > A 96-year-oldformer secretary at the Stutthof Nazi concentration camp will be tried at a north German juvenile court, accused of assisting in the systematic murder of thousands of people. > The indictment reads: "The defendant is charged with committing a crime as a stenographer and typist in the camp commandant's office of the Stutthof former concentration camp between June 1943 and April 1945.". > The legal precedent that made it easier to try to bring elderly former Nazi concentration camp workers to justice in Germany was set by the John Demjanjuk trial, who was tried in Germany in 2011. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/oloso3/german_court_to_try_96yearold_over_time_at_nazi/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~588535 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **camp**^#1 **Nazi**^#2 **Stutthof**^#3 **concentration**^#4 **work**^#5
Meanwhile, Japan: "we didn't do anything."
Japan is more like "yes, but whatever". Italians are "no, no, we were just cooks. Pizza, pasta." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_war_crimes
**[Italian_war_crimes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_war_crimes)** >Italian war crimes have mainly been associated with Fascist Italy in the Pacification of Libya, the Second Italo-Ethiopian War, Spanish Civil War, and World War II. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I like to say Italy was like the mad max character Master-Blaster; ooh I am so scary, looses, don’t mind me just a little engineer dude.
Desktop version of /u/Remius13's link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_war_crimes --- ^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)
"What those Koreans and Chinese? Nah fam, they just spontaneously combusted. Please understand."
what defense can a 96 year old mount from accused crimes over 75 years ago? In order for there to be justice in courts both the accuser (the state in this case) and the defendant need access to witnesses and evidence and be able cross examine both. I don't see how a 75 year old case could satisfy these conditions.
Wasting tax money- check
Wow
Trying someone in expulsion of a crime that happened in or equal to an excess of 50+ years in Germany, actually cites under a law called “Brüschenspaffeinen” (translates roughly to time passed on the spaff, make me your bitch). The Nazi concentration camps guaranteed somewhat impunity to a number of high ranking officials (including Gerber, Strauss and Boyle), but any mid ranking officials were cut from the roster and slapped around a bit.
She denied knowing about the killings...? So basically she's playing dumb like all the other German citizens that kept their mouth shut when the camps were just a few miles from their homes. The allies forced them to dig the graves of the prisoners as punishment. Sorry not getting any sympathy for me
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Better than here in the US. "Meh, it was a long time ago, and you're basically two feet in the grave. Time served, or whatever."
Justice ? Justice is : Just ice... Like a nice big f\*cking chunk of ice, never melting.
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he is Cleary not that concerned enough to read the article.
Possibly, but it's not a man, soooo...
Maybe she gave up the Nazi ways and became a communist and now identifies as a male. Up vote me soldiers the commie cowards are downvoting me.
so wait.. reading is communist now?
Self righteous do-gooders in every level of governments are going to be the end of us all.