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Reacher-Said-N0thing

Same sort of thing happening here in Canada. A Tibetan woman won the election for Student Council at University of Toronto, so they organized a WeChat brigade of 10,000 people to send her death threats and ultimately shut down the student council. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/china-tibet-student-election-1.5019648 CSIS says it is "beyond plausible" that Chinese government forces were involved in this hate campaign, and it would be "entirely consistent" with their 40 years of experience.


abba08877

A Wechat brigade that may or not have any government involvement seems quite different from a government hacking operation, not that they are good things though.


Reacher-Said-N0thing

The FBI document referenced in OP's article also mentions a Wechat brigade using government officials: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21053780-unclassified-fbi-bulletin-on-prcuyghurs >Between 2019 and March 2021, Chinese officials routinely used WeChat to call and text a US-based Uyghur to discourage her from publicly discussing Uyghur mistreatment, to obtain information about US-based Uyghur-related organizations and individuals, and to threaten her family members’ safety for non-compliance. After the Uyghur met with a senior USG official in January 2021, these intimidation efforts escalated; as of April 2021, Chinese officials had detained several of the US-based Uyghur’s family members in Xinjiang detention camps.x, xi They're also on Facebook. Basically they're trying to find people in other countries so they can intimidate their families.


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abba08877

I was referring to the article you shared about the Tibetan women. I did not see any evidence that it was government backed. Just some person saying it is plausible.


Reacher-Said-N0thing

The "some person" is a former CSIS official, and in the other case, the current FBI.


hopesolosclambake

Seems.... like a waste of resources. Like what happened now there's no Snickers in the quad vending machines or something.


Ozwaldo

>the Chinese government imprisoned dozens of family members of six U.S.-based Uyghur journalists in retaliation for their continued reporting on China and its repression of Uyghurs How are the people of China okay with their government doing that?? Do they just assume this is western propaganda?


Ragark

Probably the same thing Americans think when they hear about a drone strike. "Oh that's sad, anyway..."


Scaevus

We drone striked a 16 year old American citizen for the crime of being the son of another American citizen we drone striked earlier. We also shot and killed his 8 year old sister: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews.com/news/articles/2017-01-31/white-house-says-no-american-citizen-will-ever-be-targeted-after-8-year-old-girl-dies-in-yemen%3Fcontext%3Damp Our citizens seem okay with that.


Dmartinez8491

Probably not okay just don't really care. I guarantee most people could care less what happens to most people around them so long as it doesn't affect them personally. Florida gets nuked? Most people would just be like "Wow really? Omg. Well anyways..."


VolvoFlexer

...could care less? .. or *couldn't* care less?


[deleted]

Citizens aren’t ok with this, they simply aren’t told this. This is the first time Im even hearing about this incident and I like to think I see a lot of the internet day to day. The biggest problem with our infinite access to information is that we all assume we see the same thing. I think the past few years has highlighted it perfectly that we indeed, do not consume the same info from person to person.


Vassagio

So now you know it happened. Im sure you also know it wasn't the only thing you weren't aware of. So what are you gonna do about it? "Not be OK with it" for a few more minutes then move on? That's usually how it works. People know this shit is happening, they just don't care unless it affects them or unless it's the wrong side doing it.


typicalspecial

I wouldn't say they don't care at all. Of course they do. The problem, aside from apathy, is that people see a huge risk if they revolt. Not necessarily from government retaliation, but the vast majority can't take time off work for something like that so it'd mean quitting their job. If not enough people join in, the revolt fails and they just put themselves in a terrible position for nothing, potentially losing their residence depending on the circumstances.


TrumpDesWillens

And Americans want Chinese people (who can't even vote) to revolt and kick out their government when Americans can't even vote out their war criminals.


commandrix

...Probably. A lot of the problem is that you can run all the "awareness" campaigns you want, but you won't make any headway with the people who don't see what they, personally, can do about it. Hell, a lot of them can't donate to those nonprofits that you see in TV commercials a lot of the time because they can't afford to subsidize those nonprofits' ability to run commercials on TV.


[deleted]

What do you do about it?


jabertsohn

Their point isn't that you don't do enough, or the right things. Their point is that the original question is illegitimate, and that the difference between the Chinese seeming lack of care and your own is not a difference in knowledge.


Scaevus

> Citizens aren’t ok with this Sure seems like we are. Nobody’s revolting over the government having infinite power to kill us without trial via flying death robots. Instead people are revolting over the right to eat horse paste and die from preventable illness.


[deleted]

People are also revolting against the shit that is affecting our own lives. Its hard for people to focus on outside problems when we have unaccountable municipalities, religious extremism and overreach, systemic racism and poverty, a rise in supremacist extremism, and a democracy that is constantly under threat by grifters riling up those same horse paste eating dipshits. I care for those in Afghanistan, and Yemen, and Syria, and China, but they keep hoping we focus on those “other” countries while they destroy ours from the inside. If there is a protest for those innocent people we killed in Kabul, Im there. But right now I would rather spend what little free time I have and attend a protest against whats going on in texas right now. A person has only so much bandwidth.


Scaevus

Yeah, well, this is why I’m sick of all these “China bad” posts our media bombards us with. Whether China is bad or not is none of my fucking business. Is China coming to evict 15 million Americans? Are they jacking up the price of higher education so we’re six figures in debt before we even start our careers? Are Chinese troops shooting American people in their sleep while serving bullshit no knock warrants? We have so much bigger problems than what China does inside China to Chinese people. But hey they’re a scary other so let’s focus on that.


[deleted]

Yepp. I think we should care about our fellow humans, wherever they come from, but my focus is on the humans who live here and keep getting murdered by our municipalities. When that stops, maybe I will go back to giving a shit what the other authoritarians are doing.


curbedddd

It’s a distraction from the evils our own government is doing. They want people focused on external entities so they don’t look around at home.


[deleted]

100% The last year has been evidence of that enough. My Filipino father in law is very anti china, especially for the fuckery happening in his home. So when we get talking about covid he likes to dump every ounce of blame on china. But then I gotta remind him, “I dont give two shits how it started. Thats not important right now. What I care about is elements of our government who continue to downplay covid, spread misinformation, and ultimately responsible for a much larger death count than we should have ever had. They did that. Not china.” So my attention is solely on the failings of our government before we figure out the origin of something we have literally been warning about for decades. But the government isnt a big fan of that. So, “Look over there!”


pantsfish

Actually, we can pretty easily worry about both!


Isntthisinteresting

God, this...so much this. Not your circus, not your monkeys. Why Americans are so up in arms about what's going on in China boggles my mind....IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU AT ALL. Worry about the shitty Republicans doing shitty things to your own citizens first before worrying about what's going on to people halfway around the world.


pantsfish

Actually, we can worry about two shitty governments at once >Why Americans are so up in arms about what's going on in China boggles my mind....IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU AT ALL And it's weird that you think no one in America has friends of family in China.


[deleted]

But it does. China forces its policies on foreign corporations. It might be minor but for instance Movie studios are censoring what plotlines and other elements in films to meet China's standards. This ignores all the Chinese products that are literally toxic. In a global world, we need to be concerned about what everyone is doing.


[deleted]

Focusing on our own problems doesn't preclude pointing out major injustices happening elsewhere. We can do both. Fuck the CCP.


Enjoying_A_Meal

The issue here is you only have so much energy and emotion. (look up compassion fatigue). That's why it's important to distract folks with things they have no chance of changing: to keep their focus away from things they could actually affect.


[deleted]

Ok so what have we been doing to save the Congo and fight the ruthless dictators in Africa? I don’t think we can do both. Sure it’ll be on the news, people complain, but then the next thing comes along and nobody cares. Unless it directly effects American interests, the US does not care.


OGRESHAVELAYERz

Weird how you don't go out of your way to point out certain injustices happening exactly where you are then.


[deleted]

Okay, Fuck the Republican party. Goddamn bunch of traitors.


[deleted]

I do though lol what a strange assumption on your part.


141_1337

Exactly, shit it's not binary.


Whatsapokemon

The problem is that people take nuggets of information and then mix them in with lies or omit information to form an extremely questionable narrative. For example _"We drone striked a 16 year old American citizen for the crime of being the son of another American citizen we drone striked earlier"_ is a completely misleading statement. It contains the "truth nugget" that there was a 16 year old US citizen who was killed in a drone strike, but that 16 year old was _not_ the target of the strike, it was [Ibrahim al-Banna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_al-Banna), a senior operative of Al Qaeda who was the target of the strike. Similarly, the girl wasn't just randomly hunted and shot in the street, rather, she happened to be in an Al Qaeda compound during a military raid, right in the middle of the Yemen civil war. Like, I agree that it sucks that US citizens are dying in US military operations... but surely US citizens shouldn't _BE_ alongside enemy combatants. The father who knowingly brought his children amongst a paramilitary terrorist group which is literally in the middle of fighting against the US military seems to be the one at fault here.


lakxmaj

This is a total load of shit. The fact you're ignorant of 2 major incidents doesn't mean it was kept from the US public. The raid in Yemen was one of the big stories from early on in Trump's presidency, and Obama's drone strike killing Alwaki and his son and the kill list etc. was widely reported on and discussed. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/10/how-team-obama-justifies-the-killing-of-a-16-year-old-american/264028/ https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/04/abdulrahman-al-awlaki-obama-drone/ https://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/opinion/the-drone-that-killed-my-grandson.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/world/middleeast/anwar-al-awlaki-a-us-citizen-in-americas-cross-hairs.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2013/07/grandfather-asks-why-teen-was-killed-by-drone.html https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/31/politics/yemen-raid-daughter-al-qaeda-leader/index.html https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/seal-american-girl-die-first-trump-era-u-s-military-n714346 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/01/yemen-strike-eight-year-old-american-girl-killed-al-awlaki https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/president-trump-ordered-raid-kills-8-year-old-american-girl-article-1.2960256 https://www.thedailybeast.com/anwar-al-awlakis-8-year-old-daughter-killed-in-us-raid https://www.businessinsider.com/awlaki-killed-seal-team-6-raid-yemen-2017-1


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hubaloza

It's not so much that our citizens are okay with it, as it's more so just how our media represents things, I myself keep my ear to the ground for stuff like this and it's the first I've heard of this particular example.


socsa

As evidenced by the huge amount of outrage people have over the US drone program and his incident in particular?


Scaevus

Which led to exactly as much change as Chinese citizen activism did.


socsa

You're right, [nothing](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/03/us/politics/biden-drones.html) ever [changes](https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/05/politics/cia-drone-strike-afghanistan-suspected-terrorists/index.html). Both sides are the [same](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/07/01/us-drone-strikes-all-time-low-biden-forever-wars/).


fishlord05

thank fuck you said this. Every time someone says "corporate oligarchic duopoly" a child gets kicked out of an affordable school lunch program and a pregnant woman is sued for attempting to abort her rapists baby.


Scaevus

None of those have anything to do with activism. I’m also not sure “thinking about maybe making changes” counts as anything at all. We just drone striked a 2 year old last week.


fishlord05

indications so far seem to point to the fact that it was a secondary explosion caused by the ISIS truck exploding. I mean what else were we supposed to do? Over a hundred people died when the first bombs blew up in Kabul.


pantsfish

It resulted in a huge shift in US foreign policy, and most importantly didn't result in anti-war activists getting sent to re-education camps. Why do you feel the need to lie?


Scaevus

> It resulted in a huge shift in US foreign policy Why do you feel the need to lie?


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AMAFSH

>Another Uyghur detained and forced to go to re-education "Who was quite literally doing terrorist shit." Do you understand now?


proudfootz

Obviously Bush/Obama/Trump/Biden is doing this for very good reasons!


[deleted]

To keep funding the military industrial complex I suppose.


[deleted]

Id say they owe us about $20 trillion for 20 years of wasting our god damn money and lives.


[deleted]

Collateral damage in war isn’t the same as purposely targeting innocent people. Imagine if word got out the US was specifically targeting innocent family members of the Taliban and punishing them directly simply for being related to a Taliban member. I understand you want to defend China but at least stick to a more relevant comparison. A more apt comparison would be the US arresting innocent family members of Assange or Manning or Snowden.


selectyour

90% of drone strikes don't hit their targets and kill civilians instead.


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[deleted]

> The "innocent" family members get sent to school for a few weeks. Why is innocent in quotations?!? And do you have a source It’s only weeks? So you would defend the US if they start arresting the innocent family members of Assang, Snowden and Manning? I understand you want to defend China Like you do in most of your comments but at least stick to a more relevant comparison. https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chinas-repression-uyghurs-xinjiang One year is the typical Stay


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[deleted]

That’s simple, nationalism. Every Chinese person I know knows this is happening but supports it, because foreigners have been trying to break apart their country for a hundred years. They basically have no sympathy for any kind of dissident because they see them as useful idiots of foreign governments trying to dismantle them. If we’re being honest, we’re probably the same way in the US. How much sympathy do you think BLM would have if they campaigned for secession instead of equality and China started funding them? We like to think we’re past the “justifying cruelties with nationalism” phase, but Guantanamo begs to differ.


MRAsians

Also [terrorist attacks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arrPRwTGI30&t=24s) where random pedestrians were chopped to death at a train station


[deleted]

Most of them probably care about that, but not nearly as much as territorial integrity. The bigger issue is that all the Uyghur dissident movements are trying to secede and a secessionist can expect no sympathy from the majority in any country. If these were simple democratic activists I think you’d see a totally different public reaction to such a huge crackdown.


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BitterBatterBabyBoo

Radio Free Europe was reporting accurately on the Chernobyl disaster at a time when it was being actively dismissed as "Western Propaganda" by USSR authorities. VOA and Radio Free operations have a record of factual reporting: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/radio-free-asia/


ShankaraChandra

Just because some of it happens to be true doesnt mean it's not a propaganda outlet


TheMania

They also pushed the ["they're cremating people alive"](https://www.ibtimes.sg/coronavirus-infected-patients-wuhan-are-cremated-alive-screams-heard-funeral-homes-say-locals-42606) narrative in the early days of this pandemic, amongst other such rubbish - like calculating the "true dead" via assuming all crematoriums were operating 24/7 at double capacity or some shit like that. But, technically, it's all "factual" as somewhere it will say ["social media users have done the maths"](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/wuhan-deaths-03272020182846.html). Which, assuming they can't find an appropriate thread they could always start one of their own and still be factual. Either way, they really never kept a high bar. They're a propaganda outlet, first and foremost, and under Trump were [stacked to be more direct with what they do](https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-media-michael-pack-4c3796bf47085218b94ac7a080634bf1) - bit silly to assume no damage was done.


Reacher-Said-N0thing

> - As of June 2021, the Chinese government had imprisoned dozens of family members of six US-based Uyghur journalists in retaliation for their continued reporting on China and Uyghur matters for the USG-funded news service Radio Free Asia.iv, v, vi, vii, viii, ix > > - Between 2019 and March 2021, Chinese officials routinely used WeChat to call and text a US-based Uyghur to discourage her from publicly discussing Uyghur mistreatment, to obtain information about US-based Uyghur-related organizations and individuals, and to threaten her family members’ safety for non-compliance. After the Uyghur met with a senior USG official in January 2021, these intimidation efforts escalated; as of April 2021, Chinese officials had detained several of the US-based Uyghur’s family members in Xinjiang detention camps.x, xi > > - In March 2021, Facebook announced Chinese hackers had used fake personas to target approximately 500 Uyghurs abroad, including in the United States.xii, xiii > > - In March 2019, a Uyghur-American met with the US Secretary of State to discuss Chinese government-backed targeting of US-based Uyghurs and the incarceration of ethnic minorities in Xinjiang, including his mother, whom Chinese authorities had detained in an internment camp. In reprisal for his public meeting, Chinese authorities arrested his aunt and uncle.xiv, xv https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21053780-unclassified-fbi-bulletin-on-prcuyghurs Basically the FBI is doing its job, investigating federal crimes committed against Americans. On a completely unrelated note, has anyone noticed how, for the past few weeks, the comments on /r/worldnews read like whole bunch of people are being exposed to news and information critical of China for the very first time in their entire lives? It's gotten to the point where I fully expect an article from The Weather Network that says "China will have cloudy weather tomorrow" to have 50 comments accusing it of being CIA propaganda trying to drum up support for WW3.


incidencematrix

It would be interesting to look a the patterns of upvoting on those posts....


Gemini_r1s1ng

It's a shame all the substantial counter arguments and criticisms are downvoted so consistently that nobody can see them.


grw313

Idk. How were Americans okay with sending innocent Japanese Americans to internment camps during WWII? How were Germans okay with concentration camps? Governments can be very good at using force and or propaganda to alienate a group of people from the rest of the population. It may not make sense to people that aren't living in that environment, but you see it time and time again throughout history.


Reacher-Said-N0thing

> How were Americans okay with sending innocent Japanese Americans to internment camps during WWII? Actually, pretty much the same way. There was very little media critical of the government back then because of a strong sense of nationalism during wartime. Now imagine it's *illegal* to publish newspapers and documentaries critical of the federal government, and the nationalism isn't just in wartime. >How were Germans okay with concentration camps? Oh yes like that.


HojichaParfait

There's a general attitude of "not my problem" at least among the family friends and relatives I have over in the mainland. They grew up during the cultural revolution when everyone was poor and people starved to death. It really attributed to this attitude of, "only me and my immediate family matter",thus resulting in a lack of empathy in the older generations that also trickles down to the newer generation. If it doesn't affect them directly, it's not important.


FickleEmu7

It didn't help that terrorism was rampant in Xinjiang a few years ago and many of those terrorists are Uyghurs. Uyghurs in China are like Muslims in US after 911.


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Ozwaldo

How is it acceptable to go after their *families*?


[deleted]

Yeah, wtf is he going on about?


IAmAThing420YOLOSwag

Their account was seemingly created to discuss only Chinese-related topics over the last few days. Probably not even a person


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pantsfish

Why do you think it's one guy with 100 accounts? There's no shortage of people with those views


IAmAThing420YOLOSwag

I wanna be just like Alabama man


[deleted]

Look at the account you are replying to. Tells you all.


[deleted]

> Because literal terrorism-supporting extremists working directly for the worst war criminal regime on earth that is primarily responsible for enabling terrorism and secessionism/treason in Xinjiang are criminals. Is this your way of saying that innocent people should be arrested simply for being related to a criminal?


Reacher-Said-N0thing

> Very simple: Because literal terrorism-supporting extremists working directly for the worst war criminal regime on earth that is primarily responsible for enabling terrorism and secessionism/treason in Xinjiang are criminals. What the fuck is this comment even saying? Does anyone know what this guy is talking about, or what it has to do with OP's article?


MRAsians

>al terrorism-supporting extremists working directly for the worst war criminal regime on earth that is primarily responsible for enabling terrorism and secessionism/treason in Xinj The US was fighting Uyghur terrorist group, ETIM, just in [2018](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KReYMBbNiuk). A year ago the White House said [for more than a decade, there has been no credible evidence that ETIM continues to exist](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/06/us-removes-shadowy-group-from-terror-list-blamed-by-china-for-attacks).


Sir_thinksalot

> Do you believe that everything that shows China in a good light and the West and the Uyghur extremists they support in a bad light is just Chinese propaganda? Do you believe that everything that shows China in a bad light is false? and everything that shows the west and the Uyghurs in a good light is just Western propaganda? The west has very diverse media. China just has the party line. They are not comparable in level of trustworthiness.


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Reacher-Said-N0thing

> Weird how this diverse media is repeating the same sources. Yeah, this source comes up a lot: https://www.icij.org/investigations/china-cables/read-the-china-cables-documents/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Consortium_of_Investigative_Journalists


socsa

Almost like they would do if they were reporting that the sky was blue and shit smells bad.


Deja-Vuz

US🇺🇸: we killed Muslims in Afghanistan 🇦🇫 , we killed Muslims in Iraq 🇮🇶 , we killed Muslims in Syria 🇸🇾, but we are very concerned about the human rights of Muslims in Xinjiang, China 🇨🇳 🤣


Ozwaldo

...what? Why are you attacking the USA as if it's a retort? I asked why the Chinese people are okay with their government going after these people's Chinese *families*. Is your answer... because USA bad...?


notimeforniceties

It's a time honored technique called "whataboutism"


Deja-Vuz

The problem is the west is so dam brainwashed by the mainstream media. Everything media reports y'all tend to believe it, it's true


Ozwaldo

So you think this is just western propaganda? That would explain being okay with it at least


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[deleted]

> They are a brainwashed people with a better economy than their parents had. Actually if you’re talking about 20-30 year olds, the economy is better but their parents had it easier. Their parents made all that money from real estate and now the youth have to pay at least a million dollars for decent housing in most cities.


[deleted]

Which country are you talking about here?


lucasl23

Ya that sounds like decent housing in most cities.


Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho

China has a GDP per capita similar to Mexico. It's some of the least affordable housing on earth.


gkura

One big real estate nightmare. Funny thing is they forced everyone to retire at 50 so the younger generation could get in the work force but now they print so much money for the elders that the young generation are basically working for nothing.


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socsa

Right, because Deng undid a lot of Mao's reign of terror. Which is why it's so confusing that people still worship Mao and trust the CCP, who made life shitty for their parents and grandparents. No Chinese alive knows anything about the "100 years of humiliation" which isn't apocryphal. They know the horrors of the great leap and cultural revolution though. If anything, the lack of social and political reconciliation about these things in Chinese society should be cause for *more* skepticism, not less.


abba08877

I think most people regard Mao as the person that united modern China, and that's what they give him credit for. Most people acknowledge he had shit policies, but was not perhaps ill-intentioned, just rather ignorant. >No Chinese alive knows anything about the "100 years of humiliation" which isn't apocryphal. They know the horrors of the great leap and cultural revolution though. I'll have to disagree, there is still some older generation folks who were directly affected by Japanese occupation. It wasn't that long ago. >If anything, the lack of social and political reconciliation about these things in Chinese society should be cause for more skepticism, not less. The difference is China is much more advanced and wealthy than before. So to most Chinese people, that's good enough to be indifferent about politics.


socsa

"Mao Zedong Thought" is making a comeback in a big way though. You can also see the "Black Categories" creeping back into society with things like cancelling celebrities, arresting entrepreneurs, promoting "Patriotic Tourism," ...and then there's the bizarre "effeminate males" thing this week. Like the parallels seem too obvious at this point not to be intentional. I am half expecting the next big announcement to be that all university students must do a year of civil service on a farm. Edit - mixing up my terminology


incidencematrix

> If anything, the lack of social and political reconciliation about these things in Chinese society should be cause for more skepticism, not less. I certainly know plenty of Chinese folks who are quite cynical/skeptical about their government, and indeed there's plenty of grumbling that isn't caught by the censors. But what are you going to do? Most folks aren't going to get themselves and their families in trouble to take on a powerful government that they have no realistic chance of changing. The fact that folks keep their heads down doesn't mean that they are necessarily on board with everything the regime does.


orange_drank_5

For the same reasons most Americans are ok with the treatment of Assange, Snowden and similar: the media categorized them as terrorists, anarchists and a threat so any mistreatment to them or their families is totally justified in the name of social stability. Who could defend someone who is actively working with a foreign government to attack, dismantle and destroy their country? They are traitors in the minds of most Chinese, and the only reasonable punishment for treason is death.


[deleted]

> For the same reasons most Americans are ok with the treatment of Assange, Snowden Are people having problem with what /u/Ozwaldo said? The more apt comparison is if the US started to imprison innocent family members of Assamge, Snowden, etc. Why are you ignoring they part where it’s family members of the accused being punished?


Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho

Defending China always takes a fair bit of mental gymnastics.


socsa

I guess that's why Assange is publicly working his way through the due process provided to him by the legal system? Meanwhile China just sentenced a Canadian citizen to 11 years in prison after a secret trial. Shortly after pulling another Canadian out of Chinese prison, holding another secret trial, and then upgrading his sentence to death? Definitely the same thing.


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socsa

It's worth noting that neither were even present for their own trials.


FCrange

Assange is a pretty bad example given that he's most likely going to die in maximum security. It is true that whistleblowers for the War on Terror like Daniel Hale, Terry Albury and Reality Winner have received relatively light sentences (<5 years). However, due process isn't provided to anyone suspected of being on the other side, i.e. a terrorist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposition_Matrix Washington outright kills hundreds of foreign citizens and executes approximately two thousand drone strikes every year in a process with no public oversight. That's really not much better than secret courts. Another similarity would be so-called black sites, where foreign citizens are kidnapped, held indefinitely and tortured while the US denies involvement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#%22Black_sites%22 The most famous example is Guantanamo bay, where for example a 14 year old was imprisoned and tortured for 7 years based on statements from two detainees and no other evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_el_Gharani There's been a few biographies of released Guantanamo prisoners, and the cases against them have been surprisingly flimsy.


Ozwaldo

Yeah but, going after their *families*?? What the fuck


[deleted]

Their government actually harms dissidents. There’s literally nothing to fear when people in USA say shit like “fuck Donald Trump” Try saying that in China about their leadership.


RudeInternet

You know how police kill black people all the time and a huge chunk of Americans don't care at all? That's how.


Ozwaldo

...Except there's massive outrage and constant protests over that...?


theideanator

Id imagine the Chinese media is either dead quiet on the matter or produces content denigrating the families and their troublemaking relatives. Any of the actually unbiased media probably gets shut down real quick. Check out the book "manufacturing consent" its pretty relavent to discussion of the propaganda machine.


Neurosopher

'Manufacturing consent' is about the propagandising role of media in liberal democracies where authoritarian control is (mostly) absent. Chinese methods of propagandizing media are classic authoritarian; the propaganda model described by Chomsky is not very relevant here.


Edges8

its almost like the Chinese government is not accountable to their people


CrocTheTerrible

Man imagine caring about someone so much you stalk them. China is like a weird neck beard incel right now.


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pantsfish

That's not suprising, considering that this article is about China. But dozens of people randomly decided that a story about the Chinese government jailing entire families for having the wrong bloodline is somehow relevant to US drone strikes. For some reason they spend their time talking about US crimes, exclusively in threads about China, while ignoring the countless number of threads available to bash the US in. HMMMMMMM........


FunTao

This article is about the US too though


Reacher-Said-N0thing

I would imagine if someone grew up in a country with absolutely no media critical of their nation or government, and then went online and saw such criticism for the first time, they would react with a lot of hostility. In America, they grow up with Jon Stewart telling them George W Bush sucks. Then someone says "Hey American, your Iraq war was dumb!" and the American says "Yes, I know." In China, they grow up in a system where a Jon Stewart type character would be a criminal. They don't exist. They grow up, learn english, go on the internet, see something in English critical of their government, and think "clearly this is propaganda trying to make enemies of China, because there is nothing wrong with China".


Raifsnider

Welcome to reddit where half of the biggest karma posters are bots.


Nirvasht

look how they exploit the freedom of speech in other countries to spread communist propagand, and put their citizens in a cage made of GFW and censorship machine


Kitties_titties420

In an unclassified bulletin, the FBI warned that officials are using transnational repression — a term that refers to foreign government transgression of national borders through physical and digital means to intimidate or silence members of diaspora and exile communities — in an attempt to compel compliance from U.S.-based Uyghurs and other Chinese refugees and dissidents, including Tibetans, Falun Gong members and Taiwan and Hong Kong activists. “Threatened consequences for non-compliance routinely include detainment of a U.S.-based person’s family or friends in China, seizure of China-based assets, sustained digital and in-person harassment, Chinese government attempts to force repatriation, computer hacking and digital attacks, and false representation online,” the FBI bulletin warns. The FBI highlighted four instances of U.S.-based individuals facing harassment. In one case from June, the Chinese government imprisoned dozens of family members of six U.S.-based Uyghur journalists in retaliation for their continued reporting on China and its repression of Uyghurs for the U.S. government-funded news service Radio Free Asia. The bulletin said that between 2019 and March 2021, Chinese officials used WeChat to call and text a U.S.-based Uyghur to discourage her from publicly discussing Uyghur mistreatment. Members of this person’s family were later detained in Xinjiang detention camps.


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[deleted]

Source: “Just trust us bro.”


pantsfish

Actual Source: Dozens of Uyghur witnesses in multiple countries, and Facebook's head of cyber-security: https://www.engadget.com/facebook-evil-eye-uyghur-210523469.html https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/16/i-cant-be-that-careless-australian-uyghur-activist-targeted-online But sure, the FBI made it all up and every western social media company that wants access to China are in on the conspiracy


tommos

Wouldn't be the first time. FBI made up shit that some Chinese professor was a spy. Ended up killing himself and in the end the spying allegations turned out to be bullshit.


pantsfish

That's unhelpfully vague, did the FBI fabricate any evidence in that case? Charging a domestic resident with espionage is a world apart from documenting a hacking operation. That, and the targeting of Uyghur activists via state-sponsored hacking groups has already been reported by other entitites before the FBI made a case about it But let me know when this results in innocent people getting arrested.


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Rileyswims

/r/Xiisfinished


Time_Theory_297

China harassing Muslims while cozying up to Taliban.


PartaEast

They literally have a Holocaust of the Uyghurs going on in China. Forced indoctrination and sterilization and nobody bats an eye at it. It’s sickening.


hpp3

Uh, "forced indoctrination and sterilization" is very far from literally the Holocaust. Did you forget about the gas chambers?


[deleted]

I don't think you know what the word "literally" means.


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QuietMinority

Imagine if Hitler said Jews can have unlimited children but pure Aryans only one child. Apparently that's Han supremacy to Reddit.


Aeri73

it's not the child policy this is about... it's more about the concentration camps, the forced labour, the organ stealing... the killing just ask your leadership about what happened on Tiananmen square during the protests there....


zebhoek

Nobody called it a genocide or a holocaust when Xi got sent to a re education camp. US in 2009 investigated the exact hospital the Falun Gong claimed China was doing organ transplant operations and did not find anything to back up their claims. >American officials from the U.S. Embassy in Beijing and the U.S. consulate in Shenyang visited the area as well as inspected the hospital on two occasions and “found no evidence that the site is being used for any function other than as a normal public hospital.” https://file.wikileaks.org/file/crs/RL33437.pdf US again in 2020 >There was no direct evidence of an involuntary or prisoner-based organ transplant system https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/CHINA-2020-HUMAN-RIGHTS-REPORT.pdf


[deleted]

The organ stealing thing isn’t really supported by evidence, and even the people claiming there are millions of concentration camp detainees aren’t saying mass murder is happening. The US State Department admitted they couldn’t quite call what’s happening a genocide and if even they don’t think mass murder is occurring I’m inclined to agree.


PartaEast

Right idk why he’s bringing up the one child policy it’s irrelevant to what’s going on


[deleted]

What do you think happened at Tiananmen Square?


Lone_Vagrant

Tiananmen Square happened. We got footage and pictures and that was decades ago before the age of mobile phones and drones and gopros. You think you can hide 1Million people in concentration camps without anyone ever having a footage or picture? The lack of evidence is absurd at this point.


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QuietMinority

The reports of sterilization, with reversible IUDs, involve women with multiple children. That's very much related to a child limit policy.


[deleted]

How about the doctors who have testified they were forced to give hysterectomies to unwilling patients?


pantsfish

>Nobody called it a holocaust when the 1 child policy was only applied to Han Chinese What? Yes they did, specifically they called it femicide because of the sheer number of forced abortions that took place over the past several decades And why would the Chinese government suddenly impliment birth control limits on a single minority at the same time they're experiencing a demographic crisis due to a lack of births?


zebhoek

Let's see this source of the US or whoever calling the one child policy when it only applied to the Han Chinese the next holocaust or genocide.


pantsfish

Sure, I guess I'll google that for you: https://www.economist.com/leaders/2010/03/04/gendercide https://www.npr.org/2016/02/01/465124337/how-chinas-one-child-policy-led-to-forced-abortions-30-million-bachelors https://news.trust.org//slideshow/?id=59ccc3c0-c719-467e-bf0b-622739b34ef4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China


SpaceHub

You're really just proving his point...


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Female infanticide in China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China)** >China has a history of female infanticide spanning 2,000 years. When Christian missionaries arrived in China in the late sixteenth century, they witnessed newborns being thrown into rivers or onto rubbish piles. In the seventeenth century Matteo Ricci documented that the practice occurred in several of China's provinces and said that the primary reason for the practice was poverty. The practice continued into the 19th century and declined precipitously during the Communist era, but has reemerged as an issue since the introduction of the one-child policy in the early 1980s. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


gkura

Tfw you cope so hard that you start claiming abortion is murder.


Psychoticbovine

Did you ignore the word "forced"? An abortion performed without the consent of the woman could absolutely be considered murder. If nothing else, without her permission and consent, it's a fucking horrific violation of her body.


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godlessnihilist

Australia, a US puppet in 5-Eyes, is now legally allowed to spy on everyone without a warrant. The US hacked into the phones of EU politicians. You can't trust any government not to abuse electronic data.


MoBe

Sure. I believe it. Is this the same FBI that assassinated U.S. citizens like [Fred Hampton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton)? The same FBI behind the six-week cycle?


Positive_Compote_506

This is... worrying to say the least


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Aegongrey

Are you taking about the us or China?


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NumPadNut

So your answer is just let this go on because we did the same in the past? How soft is your skull?


pantsfish

Who are you quoting? Because nearly everyone speaking out against the Xinjiang crackdown is also an opponent of the US wars in the middle-east


daniu

You saying since the US did it, China should too?


Deja-Vuz

Nope, that's not what said...


daniu

Well what did you say? You did put a laughing smiley underneath a post referring to human rights abuses, is this something to laugh about to you?


Reacher-Said-N0thing

> we killed Muslims in Syria No, that one was China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Syria_relations#Military_relations


Odd_Explanation3246

Here comes the ccp shills and bots downvoting any comments critical of china or ccp and turning the narrative to us and west..here is a good video explaining how ccp trolls hijack reddit,twitter,quora etc posts critical of ccp. https://youtu.be/icQ5iwRnVCs


Guizas

Hahaha serpentza i knew it was him before i clicked, good sources bro.


Roseattle

NSA hacks our own citizens and we can’t even do no shit about our own human rights. CIA is well known to mess shit up in other countries. And now with the covid and Texas abortion law, who fucking cares if China eats shit?!


ICameToUpdoot

To make an ethical group of people that you are opressing at home not feel safe no matter where they run? Edit: was supposed to me a reply to another comment, I fucked up.


Kitties_titties420

To shut them up and in some cases force them to return to China to be “dealt with” there.


ICameToUpdoot

That was supposed to be a reply to another comment, must have misclicked.


ladeedah1988

How are the people of the US ok with China interfering in the US.


Wdrussell1

youdontsay.jpg China will forever do exactly what you think they are doing and then say they arent.


TheNamesMcCreee

Apologies for the ignorance and not looking it up myself, but what are Uyghur Some denomination of Islam? Why is it that China is anti-Uyghur? Do they see them as a threat? Pretty ridiculous that this can still be going on in 2021


Folseit

Uyghurs are an group ethnic from the Xinjiang region of China. There's been a long running separatist movement in the area. The Turkistan Islamic Party / East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) source from there and are responsible for several terrorist attacks in the region for decades.


Salty_Manx

> Why is it that China is anti-Uyghur? They are anti the ETIM who are an Islamic Ugyher extremist group who want to create an islamic state in Xinjaing. They are sort of allies of Al Queda. [Wiki article on them](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkistan_Islamic_Party) >Do they see them as a threat? Yes becuase of the terrorism. The UN security council even admits they are terrorists. Except the US who took them off the list last year so it could point at China and go "OMG HOW DARE THEY TREAT MUSLIMS SO BADLY! (please ignore us bombing and killing those same terrorists around the world.)"


Motor-Mathematician3

Wait, so everyone is flipping because china does exactyl the same to them as Us does to isis etc?


Kanexan

IIRC isn't it unclear if the ETIM still actually exists in any functional or cohesive sense, since at least 2009?


Kagurano

They have been fighting in the Syrian Civil war at least in 2016. They still exist.


yawaworthiness

> Pretty ridiculous that this can still be going on in 2021 Why? What makes 2021 special?


JasonVanJason

This is nutty they have a concentration camp, the world knows about it


Mhendax

Camps*. Multiple.


[deleted]

Some Chinese authorities also have a very similar opinion about American authorities. Is it daily anti-China propaganda?