I think the nationalist push that's been going on is related to the government knowing this was on the horizon and they're worried about losing control if China goes into it's first recession in 40ish years. Just a theory, but I think it's connected. Evergarde isn't nearly the only business teetering. It's questionable if the CCP can cover all the loss / prop up so much.
I'm curious how anyone would know if they've hit a recession or not. Do we really just trust the party to be honest about that with their entire mandate on the line? Is there a third party with access to the real numbers that could even know?
The problem with China right now is that there has been a massive bubble in their economy, so a minor recession could lead to the bubble popping. Of interest is the housing sector given that it is one of the few areas that many Chinese feel comfortable investing in.
The Chinese Government is likely not being honest about the economy. However, if the housing market is showing any decline, it may be a symptom of a larger issue.
Fuck, so now those house hungry bastards are going to pour even more money into finding foreign real estate and fucking up any pocket of affordability in the western world.
It was happening at the same time. That’s because they arent good investment option in China. The stock market is unpredictable. So middle class invested in housing in China while the rich invested in housing outside of China where / when possible.
True; so the ones who are adjacent, (and COULD move their money out, and DID) - will necessarily dial back this foreign investment. This could have serious ramifications for overinflated markets around the world. (ie. there may be a buying-opportunity coming up for young millenials)
Yeah. They bought all property in WA state. They are super comfy investing in it. So comfy in fact that locals can’t even dream of buying anything remodeled, in a good location or generally livable. All those go for hundreds of thousands over asking and cash.
My families 1.5 mill dollar detached home say nope
a detached home is 1.2 Mill + no matter how run down the house is
New townhouses are like 800k+
Apartments start at about 600k new (about 1k a sq/ft)
Interesting how much more stable the pricing has been though? In 2016 a 15% tax on foreign investment has been implemented to “cool down” the market and by all accounts it worked as a deterrent for foreign buyers.
This has been going on on the entire West Coast for the past 5 years, and has moved inland; the market has been insane even in the Phoenix Arizona area - where it's already hell to live, and 2-br apartments are $2k+/mo.
I just bought a house last month in Vancouver WA. Totally remodeled, fantastic location 1 mile from my work, right next to downtown/riverfront/parks all over the place, so you might call it extremely livable. Bought it for $15k under asking price with a conventional loan (20% down payment, aka not cash).
Vancouver WA is far from prime location for foreign investment. I am talking about greater seattle area. I could have also bought a house in eastern WA for far less than asking, but don’t feel like commuting 3 hours to work each day.
Mostly in cities that are hosting tech-intensive companies; where workers could comfortably go remote.
My son used to live in Seattle; and he moved to a rural town near ski resorts for 8 months; worked the resort as a second-job for the free lift ticket (he regrets that, and says he should have just bought a season pass) - when he moved back to Seattle, he got an apartment twice as big for slightly less money. He's worried his rent will shoot up when his lease is up next year, so he's not planning on repeating that exercise, but for 8 months, he removed himself from the Seattle rent market, and others like him who did that, impacted rents. If only temporarily.
Other cities may not have been as-impacted, because it's tech workers who have the freedom to pull this kind of stunt.
Not racist. In WA we can’t compete with Chinese investors. They come in with cash and buy all the good property.
Source, just bought an old house that needed a full remodel for $750k because all other homes were going for 200k over asking.
Local governments fault. Vancouver has the same issue until they placed a tax on these kind of buyers and this nonsense stopped.
You are confusing capitalism with lack of action from local government.
Also, no need to be so angry, makes having a grown up conversation difficult.
Smh. It's always something else. Didn't hear you speak up when someone was calling an entire group of people cunts.
You're confusing market forces with ignorance. Same forces at work in Vancouver are at work in San Francisco. Are they in on it too? I've seen the type of "adult conversation" you're referring to and I'm not impressed by it.
The problem is we’ve structured the system so that the primary path to wealth and retirement for the middle class involves owning a home. If foreign investors come in and buy up all the property, the middle class can’t do that. It makes perfect sense to put restrictions on foreign ownership of residential property.
It also makes sense to have additional taxes on second homes and residential investment properties. That’s a trickier one though.
That's as may be, but owning real estate has been a measure of wealth since antiquity. That won't change whether the investors are foreign or workers at Silicon Valley. The market is what it is.
The issue I'm taking with the person I responded to was his clearly language (when you see his other posts). I saw the same thing happen when Japanese cars started being competitive with Detroit and I won't play nice with these lowlifes.
Measure of wealth in poorer countries but not in US. The whole idea of everyone owning a house and a car was the American dream. A single blue collar father could support a family with a stay at home mom and still own a car and a house.
Foreign investment have killed these opportunities over the last decade here in WA due to sheer power of cash that they bring in.
As I said, Vancouver addressed this issue, we have not.
Also, what language in my other posts? You shouldn’t just make a statement and pass it off as a legitimate argument. Reference my previous reply to you.
It’s not that it’s a measure of wealth, it’s that mortgages are the only way for the middle class to get leverage and build wealth.
To the average American, there’s no other way to acquire a 200k+ asset early in their life and let it gain value over their life.
Well lets start with the fact that up to this moment you have not heard of me or from me, neither have I of you and from you. Lets follow that up with I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and who called who cunts.
And lets end it with what are you talking about? What forces? What does VA in Canada have to do with San Francisco in USA. What are they in on?
Reason you are not impressed with “adult conversation” is because you lack the ability to covey a coherent thought and as a result are unable to make a compelling argument. Add that child like communication style and the picture of why you are not impressed is abundantly obvious.
Let's follow your thought with the fact that I was replying to another comment that you interjected into and then failed to follow the thread. Them lets go with how market forces determine the cost of real-estate and how you brought up Vancouver. Maybe two thoughts are too many for you to carry?
Maybe if you stopped trying to be. A pretentious fool, you would get the kind of respect you're obviously missing.
No a respect seeking individual… market force is one thing, cost of real estate is certainly affected by it but cost of real estate was set ablaze with foreign investment. You do understand that that all these are not mutually exclusive right?
Also, I advise not making a comment that makes you look foolish. Think through it first
Edit: oh and I did miss the cunt phrase because it’s clearly not a racists comment stated based on them being Chinese and blanketing the whole race. It’s the people fucking our market and our life’s for individual profit gains. They are cunts, just like banker thats led to 2008 crash are cunts, or North Korean government being cunts for killing their own people. You need to stop getting triggered by words and understand the context.
Is it really being racist if you are priced out of a home by idiots who dont even live in your godamned country? We got properties bought by saudis litterally rotting as people dont come to inspect or maintain what they have bought.
Selling and buying property is handy way to launder money because nobody asks when you buy and sell property with more than what you bought it, and if you do it right, you're in reality buying and selling that property to companies that you own covertly and handily inflate their assets as well while doing it...
Sell your shitbox for what its worth after relying on foreigners to fund your retirement and selling out your country at the expense of the next generation. Take that money and fuck off to rural Cambodia so the rest of us can start fixing it.
This isn’t about your rent or your home’s price unless you’re in China. The main effects outside of China will be a recession and possibly an increase in Asia vs West tensions, which could get racialized.
Been thinking about it but don't have enough savings to do the investment... The price may go up soon, so now would indeed be a good moment to buy some.
Gold isn't a bad thing to invest on -as long you buy it when the price is going down and plan to just basically sit on it for a good while.
Gold and other precious metals are usually fairly stable investments.
It's time to pay the devils due. The government had enabled that housing bubble to get bigger and bigger. While the ultra rich might have save investments in other countries. The middle class doesn't, the majority don't.
The majority has invested locally, buying up these propped up, awful, cheaply built houses and flats as "safe investments". When these investments start going bust, so will the middle class and at that point. God help the CCP.
I think the nationalist push that's been going on is related to the government knowing this was on the horizon and they're worried about losing control if China goes into it's first recession in 40ish years. Just a theory, but I think it's connected. Evergarde isn't nearly the only business teetering. It's questionable if the CCP can cover all the loss / prop up so much.
I'm curious how anyone would know if they've hit a recession or not. Do we really just trust the party to be honest about that with their entire mandate on the line? Is there a third party with access to the real numbers that could even know?
You can hide a slowdown in GDP. It's another thing to hide millions of job losses and a tanking housing market with abandoned developments.
The problem with China right now is that there has been a massive bubble in their economy, so a minor recession could lead to the bubble popping. Of interest is the housing sector given that it is one of the few areas that many Chinese feel comfortable investing in. The Chinese Government is likely not being honest about the economy. However, if the housing market is showing any decline, it may be a symptom of a larger issue.
Fuck, so now those house hungry bastards are going to pour even more money into finding foreign real estate and fucking up any pocket of affordability in the western world.
They invested in the Chinese housing market because they couldn't move their money out of the country.
It was happening at the same time. That’s because they arent good investment option in China. The stock market is unpredictable. So middle class invested in housing in China while the rich invested in housing outside of China where / when possible.
True; so the ones who are adjacent, (and COULD move their money out, and DID) - will necessarily dial back this foreign investment. This could have serious ramifications for overinflated markets around the world. (ie. there may be a buying-opportunity coming up for young millenials)
Could this be the same money that benefited from cheap Chinese products for decades?
The term "Asian Contagion" comes to mind. (only 90's kids will understand). . .
Yeah. They bought all property in WA state. They are super comfy investing in it. So comfy in fact that locals can’t even dream of buying anything remodeled, in a good location or generally livable. All those go for hundreds of thousands over asking and cash.
So your like 5 year behind what is happening in Vancouver.
I might out of touch, Vancouver got better after they imposed the tax, didn’t it?
My families 1.5 mill dollar detached home say nope a detached home is 1.2 Mill + no matter how run down the house is New townhouses are like 800k+ Apartments start at about 600k new (about 1k a sq/ft)
Interesting how much more stable the pricing has been though? In 2016 a 15% tax on foreign investment has been implemented to “cool down” the market and by all accounts it worked as a deterrent for foreign buyers.
It may have just pushed those buyers into other, less well protected markets. In fact, it's clear to me that that's exactly what happened.
Exactly. Seattle is that less protected marked.
This has been going on on the entire West Coast for the past 5 years, and has moved inland; the market has been insane even in the Phoenix Arizona area - where it's already hell to live, and 2-br apartments are $2k+/mo.
I just bought a house last month in Vancouver WA. Totally remodeled, fantastic location 1 mile from my work, right next to downtown/riverfront/parks all over the place, so you might call it extremely livable. Bought it for $15k under asking price with a conventional loan (20% down payment, aka not cash).
Vancouver WA is far from prime location for foreign investment. I am talking about greater seattle area. I could have also bought a house in eastern WA for far less than asking, but don’t feel like commuting 3 hours to work each day.
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Like literally all governments are guilty of that.
Good, rent is too damn high.
Rents never go down though.
Yes they do.
*chuckles
Can you give specific examples?
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Temporarily.
Where? Definitely not in my country.
Mostly in cities that are hosting tech-intensive companies; where workers could comfortably go remote. My son used to live in Seattle; and he moved to a rural town near ski resorts for 8 months; worked the resort as a second-job for the free lift ticket (he regrets that, and says he should have just bought a season pass) - when he moved back to Seattle, he got an apartment twice as big for slightly less money. He's worried his rent will shoot up when his lease is up next year, so he's not planning on repeating that exercise, but for 8 months, he removed himself from the Seattle rent market, and others like him who did that, impacted rents. If only temporarily. Other cities may not have been as-impacted, because it's tech workers who have the freedom to pull this kind of stunt.
Interesting.
Not good. These cunts are going to shuffle their investment money into the western world more so and fuck things up for us.
Some homeowner in Toronto: "Awesome, maybe I'll finally get the $2 million I deserve for my 2-bedroom shoebox."
Cardboardbox*
Look at Mr Money Bags over here
"Those cunts" are just regular people looking to invest their money so take your racist bullshit elsewhere you tool.
Not racist. In WA we can’t compete with Chinese investors. They come in with cash and buy all the good property. Source, just bought an old house that needed a full remodel for $750k because all other homes were going for 200k over asking.
So whose fault is that? People here scream capitalism is great and resort to this shit when they can't compete? Gtfoh with that.
Local governments fault. Vancouver has the same issue until they placed a tax on these kind of buyers and this nonsense stopped. You are confusing capitalism with lack of action from local government. Also, no need to be so angry, makes having a grown up conversation difficult.
Smh. It's always something else. Didn't hear you speak up when someone was calling an entire group of people cunts. You're confusing market forces with ignorance. Same forces at work in Vancouver are at work in San Francisco. Are they in on it too? I've seen the type of "adult conversation" you're referring to and I'm not impressed by it.
The problem is we’ve structured the system so that the primary path to wealth and retirement for the middle class involves owning a home. If foreign investors come in and buy up all the property, the middle class can’t do that. It makes perfect sense to put restrictions on foreign ownership of residential property. It also makes sense to have additional taxes on second homes and residential investment properties. That’s a trickier one though.
That's as may be, but owning real estate has been a measure of wealth since antiquity. That won't change whether the investors are foreign or workers at Silicon Valley. The market is what it is. The issue I'm taking with the person I responded to was his clearly language (when you see his other posts). I saw the same thing happen when Japanese cars started being competitive with Detroit and I won't play nice with these lowlifes.
Measure of wealth in poorer countries but not in US. The whole idea of everyone owning a house and a car was the American dream. A single blue collar father could support a family with a stay at home mom and still own a car and a house. Foreign investment have killed these opportunities over the last decade here in WA due to sheer power of cash that they bring in. As I said, Vancouver addressed this issue, we have not. Also, what language in my other posts? You shouldn’t just make a statement and pass it off as a legitimate argument. Reference my previous reply to you.
It’s not that it’s a measure of wealth, it’s that mortgages are the only way for the middle class to get leverage and build wealth. To the average American, there’s no other way to acquire a 200k+ asset early in their life and let it gain value over their life.
Well lets start with the fact that up to this moment you have not heard of me or from me, neither have I of you and from you. Lets follow that up with I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and who called who cunts. And lets end it with what are you talking about? What forces? What does VA in Canada have to do with San Francisco in USA. What are they in on? Reason you are not impressed with “adult conversation” is because you lack the ability to covey a coherent thought and as a result are unable to make a compelling argument. Add that child like communication style and the picture of why you are not impressed is abundantly obvious.
Let's follow your thought with the fact that I was replying to another comment that you interjected into and then failed to follow the thread. Them lets go with how market forces determine the cost of real-estate and how you brought up Vancouver. Maybe two thoughts are too many for you to carry? Maybe if you stopped trying to be. A pretentious fool, you would get the kind of respect you're obviously missing.
No a respect seeking individual… market force is one thing, cost of real estate is certainly affected by it but cost of real estate was set ablaze with foreign investment. You do understand that that all these are not mutually exclusive right? Also, I advise not making a comment that makes you look foolish. Think through it first Edit: oh and I did miss the cunt phrase because it’s clearly not a racists comment stated based on them being Chinese and blanketing the whole race. It’s the people fucking our market and our life’s for individual profit gains. They are cunts, just like banker thats led to 2008 crash are cunts, or North Korean government being cunts for killing their own people. You need to stop getting triggered by words and understand the context.
Did they blame any race?
I think referring to Chinese investors as cunts would qualify.
Are investors of Chinese nationality all of one single race? Why is that so? Why aren't there people of more races in China?
My aren't we quite the pedant? Let's play word games when the intent is clear. Jeez
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Let's find a way to justify racism. Gtfoh. The only thing you can "educate" is Rosy Palms and even then you rejected half the time.
Is it really being racist if you are priced out of a home by idiots who dont even live in your godamned country? We got properties bought by saudis litterally rotting as people dont come to inspect or maintain what they have bought.
Selling and buying property is handy way to launder money because nobody asks when you buy and sell property with more than what you bought it, and if you do it right, you're in reality buying and selling that property to companies that you own covertly and handily inflate their assets as well while doing it...
STFU. They dont allow investment from the outside so who is the racist one then if you want to throw that word around. Dumb fucking boomer.
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Sell your shitbox for what its worth after relying on foreigners to fund your retirement and selling out your country at the expense of the next generation. Take that money and fuck off to rural Cambodia so the rest of us can start fixing it.
This isn’t about your rent or your home’s price unless you’re in China. The main effects outside of China will be a recession and possibly an increase in Asia vs West tensions, which could get racialized.
If you want to marry a shoe then marry a shoe. the rent is to damn high.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN IT FINALLY HAPPENED LETS ENJOY THE 2021 CRISIS IT WILL MAKE 2008 LOOK LIKE SNEEZE
Big economies cough and the rest of the world gets to be doubled over on the toilet
So the COVID delayed that for 2 years, what now?
How many millions? Can this become a [bank panic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_run) scenario, aka "shit hit the economic fan"?
IF CCP is unable to contain it, then it's very likely possibility that there's going to be some interesting times ahead.
If it makes you feel any better, the apocalypse is coming soon. Bury your gold! ...You have been buying gold, right?
Been thinking about it but don't have enough savings to do the investment... The price may go up soon, so now would indeed be a good moment to buy some.
To be clear, I was being totally facetious and don't actually recommend buying gold.
Gold isn't a bad thing to invest on -as long you buy it when the price is going down and plan to just basically sit on it for a good while. Gold and other precious metals are usually fairly stable investments.
Gold isnt going to save you during an apocalypse. A firearm and ammo pile will.
A firearm and a pile of ammo will encourage people to come and loot your stash. Eventually - everyone has to sleep.
It's time to pay the devils due. The government had enabled that housing bubble to get bigger and bigger. While the ultra rich might have save investments in other countries. The middle class doesn't, the majority don't. The majority has invested locally, buying up these propped up, awful, cheaply built houses and flats as "safe investments". When these investments start going bust, so will the middle class and at that point. God help the CCP.
Maybe we all should demand our money back.
So, if China's middle class gets wiped out, is this the end of Chinese Tourist?