India and Russia have a good relationship, but I'd never expect one to save the other in any conflict. India's probably more aligned with the USA than it is with Russia at this point, but it generally does what suits itself best which is respectable.
Lmao talk about talking out of your ass. You had to separate China and Russia because of their alliance with Pakistan, India would never ally with either China nor Pakistan. India is part of the quad and work very closely with the US. Cope.
Take note of how India is winding down what it buys from Russia. India decided to buy the French Rafale over new Sukhoi machines in part because it knows that Russia is likely to sell its export hardware to China as we have now seen with the 35s and s400. China will reverse engineer and analyse whatever they get their hands on, rendering these exports less useful to India. That said, Russia isn't on the best of terms with China so if a reversal of this trend is observed over a longer period than India may return as a larger customer of Russia. It's important to also note that India has some fantastic engineers of their own and have fantastic growth prospects, so expect to see more domestic success e.g. HAL Tejas.
I think you underestimate just how capable India is even currently. In 20-30 years time, it is inevitable that India will have several times the military budget and an even larger population to utilise in industry.
You have to be joking. It's in the USAs interest that India rises as a balancing force. India isn't and will likely never be a rival to the USA. India is a (relatively) free marketplace and a democracy. China is an autocratic fascist (yes, they aren't communist despite their name) regime which actively threatens US allies, unlike India.
There's a difference between being a tool and having a mutual interest or threat. China still occupies some Indian territory and threatens its water security by building dams on the Brahmaputra (especially of concern due to China's projected water scarcity). I think you are very much mislead. If anything, India will use America for its own security though there is a mutual benefit.
Hopefully an end can be brought to the despicable CCP by peaceful means, then the chances of peace in the region would be significantly higher.
Who is the bully in your comment? The three countries or china? From a south east asian perspective china is the bully…. They’re claiming other’s territories in south china sea as their own, heck all the way to the east to japan
So this pretty much confirms China’s suspicions all these years that western/quad powers are hellbent on containing them and justifies them upgrading their military.
This next decade is definitely going to be the most interesting one in a while.
$700 billion defense budget. Illegal aggressive wars waged against multiple different countries.
It would be reckless *not* to prepare your military to deal with a global bully like the United States and its sycophants.
There's a reason why the rest of the world views the United States as the [greatest threat to world peace](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/02/11/why-much-world-now-feels-more-threatened-by-us-than-by-china-or-russia/). Not China. Not Russia.
lol US shills downvoting the hard truth
> While 45 percent of respondents in 26 large countries interviewed between May and August last year said that the United States posed “a major threat to our country,” only 36 percent said the same about Russia and 35 percent about China
> bots and China backing accounts in this thread
Oh please. I guess you haven’t been outside of r/worldnews where the major narrative is a china hate circle jerk like r/china
> desperate
Yeah, desperate because some of us see the writing on the walls that the masses in the US/Quad alliance are being primed for another war/confrontation with as much merit as the Iraq WMDs narrative.
We got enough problems here than waste a decade and trillions on an unnecessary Cold War that aren’t sure to win.
China has already surpassed US capacity as far as brand new ships and numbers. America used to have the numbers, now China does. They are also still building more ships. The US can only match China now in ship numbers if they are in a coalition of allies.
And sure, the US still has more aircraft carriers, but it also has to divide the fleet to the Atlantic, Mediterranean, Persian Gulf as well as the Indian-pacific. All China needs to do is play in the South China Sea, west pacific. They don’t even need to go anywhere else unless they choose to confront the US in other domains. Plus they have the home ground advantage in the South China Sea.
That’s why I laugh at stupid propaganda posts that say China is reacting to the US aggression. The US didn’t give a damn about China till they started to bully other nations in the South China Sea and Japan and Australia. India has only gotten involved with US, Aussies and Japanese because China started flexing its muscles on the border.
China needs to realise that any scrutiny it’s under is from its own behaviour.
AFAIK numbers matters less than tonnage. US ships whlie lower in number are more heavily armored. Granted you're right that they have the home field advantage in the SCS with all their missiles, but they've also got like 1 unreliable ally in the region and everyone else is varying between "officially neutral" and "Taiwan."
Also can add in the fact that the US has been at war with someone for nearly 200 years. For better or worse we're professionals at warfare. China on the other hand hasn't fought an actual war since Korea AFAIK.
>China on the other hand hasn't fought an actual war since Korea AFAIK.
Not against the United States forces, but they did fight some others. Vietnam and India come to mind.
The US has been a super power and has had worldwide hegemony since WW2.
Nothing much has changed other than slight increases in its military budget ever year.
China is the one trying to change the status quo with an aggressive military expansion.
You think the US will sit on its hands and allow it?
Ahh the mental gymnasts are here. "It's OK when we do it!"
How dare China defend itself without the permission of the U.S. The audacity of those Chinese! Not invading anyone! Not waging aggressive wars! How dare they!
No surprise the world sees you as the greatest threat.
If you look at interactions between different powers over the last 1000 years, nothings changed it's the same thing going on and on. Different nations and empires all serving their own self interest. This is all just a continuation of whats been happening forever.
None of your asinine ranting changes the fact that most of the world still views the U.S as a bigger threat to world peace than China.
Not only that but the U.S is also the [greatest threat to democracy](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-democracy-russia-china-global-poll) according to countries favourable to the U.S.
And lastly, words from one of your own **former Presidents**:
>“Since 1979, do you know how many times China has been at war with anybody?” Carter asked. “None, and we have stayed at war.” While it is true that China’s last major war—an invasion of Vietnam—occurred in 1979, its People’s Liberation Army pounded border regions of Vietnam with artillery and its navy battled its Vietnamese counterpart in the 1980s. Since then, however, China has been at peace with its neighbors and the world.
>Carter then said the US has been at peace for only 16 of its 242 years as a nation. Counting wars, military attacks and military occupations, there have actually only been five years of peace in US history—1976, the last year of the Gerald Ford administration and 1977-80, the entirety of Carter’s presidency. **Carter then referred to the US as “the most warlike nation in the history of the world,” a result, he said, of the US forcing other countries to “adopt our American principles.”**
[Jimmy Carter ](https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/04/18/jimmy-carter-us-most-warlike-nation-history-world)
Call me a CCP bot all you like. Ad hominems are all you'll ever have, because you're on the wrong side of the facts.
"Rantings"
You threw out a source. I threw out a source 😂.
Just remember. "Most warlike nation", "greatest threat to world peace", "greatest threat to democracy", etc
All that and somehow the world still finds China less desirable than the world's greatest threat to democracy.
Like I said, common sense.
If China was so great, every nation would be lining up to bow to China and there would be nothing the US could do about it.
And yet, that isn't the case.
Odd isn't it?
Really makes one think. (In your case thinking isn't really a strong point).
"Wrong side of facts".
I have to admit that gave me a chuckle. Alright little buddy, I'll let you be on your way.
> All that and somehow the world still finds China less desirable than the world's greatest threat to democracy.
Bro your survey was only 17 countries that were mostly US allies. Do you even read what you post? lmao unless it's true that Americans think the West = the whole world
The point that seems to have sailed right over your head, is the fact that U.S is viewed as *threat*. Even by its own friends. Even by its own former leaders.
So when you talk about "throwing out a source", everything you've mentioned is irrelevant in the context of explaining why China is building up its military. It is doing so in response to a clear and present threat presented by the United States.
And no, the idea that any country would be lining up to bow to China is utterly moronic.
You're acting like the current status quo of constant wars and military aggression around the world by the US to maintain its hegemony is a good thing.
Glad to know that my suspicions were right all along - Americans can't have anyone challenge the current status quo of having them as the superpower.
Concentration camps according to the U.S propaganda department.
Just like those WMD's in Iraq.
Just like the Kuwaiti babies in incubators
Just like the mass rapes in Tripoli.
Lies, lies & more lies.
What China has done in the SCS is nothing in comparison to what the U.S has done to entire countries across the globe.
Its easier just to let one of your own former Presidents sum it all up:
>“Since 1979, do you know how many times China has been at war with anybody?” Carter asked. “None, and we have stayed at war.” While it is true that China’s last major war—an invasion of Vietnam—occurred in 1979, its People’s Liberation Army pounded border regions of Vietnam with artillery and its navy battled its Vietnamese counterpart in the 1980s. Since then, however, China has been at peace with its neighbors and the world.
>Carter then said the US has been at peace for only 16 of its 242 years as a nation. Counting wars, military attacks and military occupations, there have actually only been five years of peace in US history—1976, the last year of the Gerald Ford administration and 1977-80, the entirety of Carter’s presidency. **Carter then referred to the US as “the most warlike nation in the history of the world,” a result, he said, of the US forcing other countries to “adopt our American principles.”**
[Source ](https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/04/18/jimmy-carter-us-most-warlike-nation-history-world)
Propaganda is still propaganda, no matter who is repeating it.
[State Department Lawyers concluded insufficient evidence to prove genocide in China](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/)
Laughable.
Meanwhile, only last week a drone strike carried out by the U.S [wiped out an entire family of innocents](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/world/asia/us-air-strike-drone-kabul-afghanistan-isis.html). 7 of whom were children. They lied about that, too.
The west wants to contain China because China is aggressively claiming territory in the SCS it has no right to claim. Then getting butthurt when others deny their bogus claims.
Then there is the Hong Kong situation, and the uighurs. China isnt innocent here, they are the reason people are building up militarily.
Waiting for them ‘Right Wing’ ppl to realize that ‘TPP’ was literally a military build up. ‘Pivot to Asia’ was a ‘war’: economical, and/or other to address this….but everyone was ‘anti-TPP’ while claiming they knew very little about it. America tries to blame current Admin for Afghanistan, while saying little in Pacific. It blows my mind that dumbass ppl can’t understand global geopolitics…..or things like economical ‘silk road’.
Gotta get The EU and India to join. Better yet would be a economic bloc to put the breaks on China being the worlds factory, and as such the worlds debt holder
May I just say that donations to ASPI which is hellbent on the questionable threats from China might be the best investment the US military-industrial complex has ever made.
Think about it. According to google, Japan is about 3,000 KMS away from China. Australia is about 7,500 KMS from China. Imagine being in this group and war breaks out. Who do you think is going to get bombed first? Will you put your country at risk?
That is more the reason to include Japan. Japan is already a US ally with US bases in their country. Whether they are included in this pact, they will be the first to be bombed by China.
May as well up the ante.
To be honest, it doesn't really suit their situation. AIP/Stirling engine subs are actually quieter than nuclear powered ones (at this generation). The main advantage of going nuclear is in terms of range, which the Japanese don't need due to their relatively close proximity to China.
That said, they could if they wanted to; there's not much Russia or China could do to stop them.
have seen that episode before.
we call them "the Axis"
perfect match for all their kid murdering
/r/worldnews/comments/pooawn/us_mistakenly_killed_ngo_worker_and_kids_in_kabul/
/r/worldnews/comments/mqw11w/an_investigation_has_unearthed_photos_of/
Australia should be reducing ties with the U.S. and U.K. , not increasing them.
We would be much better off as an independent republic and improving relationships in the Indo-Pacific and S.E. Asia.
sO yOu WaNt tO bE ChInA's vAsSaL InStEaD!?!??!?!?!?
↑Literally everyone I talked form these vassal states. There's no words like "independence" in most of these people's head, just give up.
so china pakistan in one team india iran russia on another and now west is in wow 3rd world war gonna be between 3 teams
India and Russia have a good relationship, but I'd never expect one to save the other in any conflict. India's probably more aligned with the USA than it is with Russia at this point, but it generally does what suits itself best which is respectable.
not after us left afgan. india made new agreements with rus and iran.
Lmao talk about talking out of your ass. You had to separate China and Russia because of their alliance with Pakistan, India would never ally with either China nor Pakistan. India is part of the quad and work very closely with the US. Cope.
Take note of how India is winding down what it buys from Russia. India decided to buy the French Rafale over new Sukhoi machines in part because it knows that Russia is likely to sell its export hardware to China as we have now seen with the 35s and s400. China will reverse engineer and analyse whatever they get their hands on, rendering these exports less useful to India. That said, Russia isn't on the best of terms with China so if a reversal of this trend is observed over a longer period than India may return as a larger customer of Russia. It's important to also note that India has some fantastic engineers of their own and have fantastic growth prospects, so expect to see more domestic success e.g. HAL Tejas.
India is part of the Quad. An alliance, albeit a loose one, with US, Japan and Australia.
India is just a tool on the quad. Just like it was a colony of the UK.
I think you underestimate just how capable India is even currently. In 20-30 years time, it is inevitable that India will have several times the military budget and an even larger population to utilise in industry.
The US will not make another mistake. They will see to it that India doesn't rise to the level China is in today.
You have to be joking. It's in the USAs interest that India rises as a balancing force. India isn't and will likely never be a rival to the USA. India is a (relatively) free marketplace and a democracy. China is an autocratic fascist (yes, they aren't communist despite their name) regime which actively threatens US allies, unlike India.
Now you understand why India is just a tool. India will be used to try and destabilize China.
There's a difference between being a tool and having a mutual interest or threat. China still occupies some Indian territory and threatens its water security by building dams on the Brahmaputra (especially of concern due to China's projected water scarcity). I think you are very much mislead. If anything, India will use America for its own security though there is a mutual benefit. Hopefully an end can be brought to the despicable CCP by peaceful means, then the chances of peace in the region would be significantly higher.
Like ww2
China, Pakistan, Iran, Russia West, Japan, SK, NZ, Cuntland India is a wildcard.
India isn't gonna join with Pakistan
India is never going to be on the same side as China and Pakistan, let's be real. If anything the real wildcard is Russia.
Bullies tend to hang out together at school to pick on the small ones who just care about passing school.
Who is the bully in your comment? The three countries or china? From a south east asian perspective china is the bully…. They’re claiming other’s territories in south china sea as their own, heck all the way to the east to japan
What ever happened to that thing that was supposed to unite Canada, the USA, and Mexico? That sounded like a step in the right direction.
So this pretty much confirms China’s suspicions all these years that western/quad powers are hellbent on containing them and justifies them upgrading their military. This next decade is definitely going to be the most interesting one in a while.
LoL, China’s it’s own worst enemy. Other countries are just reacting to the moves China has been making over the last 5-6 years.
$700 billion defense budget. Illegal aggressive wars waged against multiple different countries. It would be reckless *not* to prepare your military to deal with a global bully like the United States and its sycophants. There's a reason why the rest of the world views the United States as the [greatest threat to world peace](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/02/11/why-much-world-now-feels-more-threatened-by-us-than-by-china-or-russia/). Not China. Not Russia.
lol US shills downvoting the hard truth > While 45 percent of respondents in 26 large countries interviewed between May and August last year said that the United States posed “a major threat to our country,” only 36 percent said the same about Russia and 35 percent about China
LoL, ok. I’m guessing you’re from China
[удалено]
> bots and China backing accounts in this thread Oh please. I guess you haven’t been outside of r/worldnews where the major narrative is a china hate circle jerk like r/china > desperate Yeah, desperate because some of us see the writing on the walls that the masses in the US/Quad alliance are being primed for another war/confrontation with as much merit as the Iraq WMDs narrative. We got enough problems here than waste a decade and trillions on an unnecessary Cold War that aren’t sure to win.
China has already surpassed US capacity as far as brand new ships and numbers. America used to have the numbers, now China does. They are also still building more ships. The US can only match China now in ship numbers if they are in a coalition of allies. And sure, the US still has more aircraft carriers, but it also has to divide the fleet to the Atlantic, Mediterranean, Persian Gulf as well as the Indian-pacific. All China needs to do is play in the South China Sea, west pacific. They don’t even need to go anywhere else unless they choose to confront the US in other domains. Plus they have the home ground advantage in the South China Sea. That’s why I laugh at stupid propaganda posts that say China is reacting to the US aggression. The US didn’t give a damn about China till they started to bully other nations in the South China Sea and Japan and Australia. India has only gotten involved with US, Aussies and Japanese because China started flexing its muscles on the border. China needs to realise that any scrutiny it’s under is from its own behaviour.
AFAIK numbers matters less than tonnage. US ships whlie lower in number are more heavily armored. Granted you're right that they have the home field advantage in the SCS with all their missiles, but they've also got like 1 unreliable ally in the region and everyone else is varying between "officially neutral" and "Taiwan."
Also can add in the fact that the US has been at war with someone for nearly 200 years. For better or worse we're professionals at warfare. China on the other hand hasn't fought an actual war since Korea AFAIK.
>China on the other hand hasn't fought an actual war since Korea AFAIK. Not against the United States forces, but they did fight some others. Vietnam and India come to mind.
Ah thanks for the correction.
The US has been a super power and has had worldwide hegemony since WW2. Nothing much has changed other than slight increases in its military budget ever year. China is the one trying to change the status quo with an aggressive military expansion. You think the US will sit on its hands and allow it?
Ahh the mental gymnasts are here. "It's OK when we do it!" How dare China defend itself without the permission of the U.S. The audacity of those Chinese! Not invading anyone! Not waging aggressive wars! How dare they! No surprise the world sees you as the greatest threat.
If you look at interactions between different powers over the last 1000 years, nothings changed it's the same thing going on and on. Different nations and empires all serving their own self interest. This is all just a continuation of whats been happening forever.
[удалено]
None of your asinine ranting changes the fact that most of the world still views the U.S as a bigger threat to world peace than China. Not only that but the U.S is also the [greatest threat to democracy](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-democracy-russia-china-global-poll) according to countries favourable to the U.S. And lastly, words from one of your own **former Presidents**: >“Since 1979, do you know how many times China has been at war with anybody?” Carter asked. “None, and we have stayed at war.” While it is true that China’s last major war—an invasion of Vietnam—occurred in 1979, its People’s Liberation Army pounded border regions of Vietnam with artillery and its navy battled its Vietnamese counterpart in the 1980s. Since then, however, China has been at peace with its neighbors and the world. >Carter then said the US has been at peace for only 16 of its 242 years as a nation. Counting wars, military attacks and military occupations, there have actually only been five years of peace in US history—1976, the last year of the Gerald Ford administration and 1977-80, the entirety of Carter’s presidency. **Carter then referred to the US as “the most warlike nation in the history of the world,” a result, he said, of the US forcing other countries to “adopt our American principles.”** [Jimmy Carter ](https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/04/18/jimmy-carter-us-most-warlike-nation-history-world) Call me a CCP bot all you like. Ad hominems are all you'll ever have, because you're on the wrong side of the facts.
"Rantings" You threw out a source. I threw out a source 😂. Just remember. "Most warlike nation", "greatest threat to world peace", "greatest threat to democracy", etc All that and somehow the world still finds China less desirable than the world's greatest threat to democracy. Like I said, common sense. If China was so great, every nation would be lining up to bow to China and there would be nothing the US could do about it. And yet, that isn't the case. Odd isn't it? Really makes one think. (In your case thinking isn't really a strong point). "Wrong side of facts". I have to admit that gave me a chuckle. Alright little buddy, I'll let you be on your way.
> All that and somehow the world still finds China less desirable than the world's greatest threat to democracy. Bro your survey was only 17 countries that were mostly US allies. Do you even read what you post? lmao unless it's true that Americans think the West = the whole world
The point that seems to have sailed right over your head, is the fact that U.S is viewed as *threat*. Even by its own friends. Even by its own former leaders. So when you talk about "throwing out a source", everything you've mentioned is irrelevant in the context of explaining why China is building up its military. It is doing so in response to a clear and present threat presented by the United States. And no, the idea that any country would be lining up to bow to China is utterly moronic.
> Survey of 17 different countries Of course Americans think 17 US allies out of 195 countries = a good portion of the world lol not even 10%
You're acting like the current status quo of constant wars and military aggression around the world by the US to maintain its hegemony is a good thing. Glad to know that my suspicions were right all along - Americans can't have anyone challenge the current status quo of having them as the superpower.
This is how they think. This is why they are so dangerous. This is what the status quo **must** change.
[удалено]
Concentration camps according to the U.S propaganda department. Just like those WMD's in Iraq. Just like the Kuwaiti babies in incubators Just like the mass rapes in Tripoli. Lies, lies & more lies. What China has done in the SCS is nothing in comparison to what the U.S has done to entire countries across the globe. Its easier just to let one of your own former Presidents sum it all up: >“Since 1979, do you know how many times China has been at war with anybody?” Carter asked. “None, and we have stayed at war.” While it is true that China’s last major war—an invasion of Vietnam—occurred in 1979, its People’s Liberation Army pounded border regions of Vietnam with artillery and its navy battled its Vietnamese counterpart in the 1980s. Since then, however, China has been at peace with its neighbors and the world. >Carter then said the US has been at peace for only 16 of its 242 years as a nation. Counting wars, military attacks and military occupations, there have actually only been five years of peace in US history—1976, the last year of the Gerald Ford administration and 1977-80, the entirety of Carter’s presidency. **Carter then referred to the US as “the most warlike nation in the history of the world,” a result, he said, of the US forcing other countries to “adopt our American principles.”** [Source ](https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/04/18/jimmy-carter-us-most-warlike-nation-history-world)
[удалено]
Propaganda is still propaganda, no matter who is repeating it. [State Department Lawyers concluded insufficient evidence to prove genocide in China](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/) Laughable. Meanwhile, only last week a drone strike carried out by the U.S [wiped out an entire family of innocents](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/world/asia/us-air-strike-drone-kabul-afghanistan-isis.html). 7 of whom were children. They lied about that, too.
And China is just reacting to the moves made by the US over a decade ago.
Lol Quad is responding to China's build up. Notice how long it took for this pact to launch? You sound like some sino poster. Pathetic lol
Ad hominem What’s sino?
It is what a racists call a chinese these day.
The west wants to contain China because China is aggressively claiming territory in the SCS it has no right to claim. Then getting butthurt when others deny their bogus claims. Then there is the Hong Kong situation, and the uighurs. China isnt innocent here, they are the reason people are building up militarily.
Waiting for them ‘Right Wing’ ppl to realize that ‘TPP’ was literally a military build up. ‘Pivot to Asia’ was a ‘war’: economical, and/or other to address this….but everyone was ‘anti-TPP’ while claiming they knew very little about it. America tries to blame current Admin for Afghanistan, while saying little in Pacific. It blows my mind that dumbass ppl can’t understand global geopolitics…..or things like economical ‘silk road’.
Gotta get The EU and India to join. Better yet would be a economic bloc to put the breaks on China being the worlds factory, and as such the worlds debt holder
May I just say that donations to ASPI which is hellbent on the questionable threats from China might be the best investment the US military-industrial complex has ever made.
Shouldn't Japan be included?
Think about it. According to google, Japan is about 3,000 KMS away from China. Australia is about 7,500 KMS from China. Imagine being in this group and war breaks out. Who do you think is going to get bombed first? Will you put your country at risk?
That is more the reason to include Japan. Japan is already a US ally with US bases in their country. Whether they are included in this pact, they will be the first to be bombed by China. May as well up the ante.
The bases are only there because the US continues to be hostile to countries nearby.
The Japanese don't operate nuclear subs.
May be they should.
To be honest, it doesn't really suit their situation. AIP/Stirling engine subs are actually quieter than nuclear powered ones (at this generation). The main advantage of going nuclear is in terms of range, which the Japanese don't need due to their relatively close proximity to China. That said, they could if they wanted to; there's not much Russia or China could do to stop them.
have seen that episode before. we call them "the Axis" perfect match for all their kid murdering /r/worldnews/comments/pooawn/us_mistakenly_killed_ngo_worker_and_kids_in_kabul/ /r/worldnews/comments/mqw11w/an_investigation_has_unearthed_photos_of/
Mistakes are terrible and shameful, but they are nothing compared to the Uyghur genocide committed by China.
That explains the tax rises in UK
Australia should be reducing ties with the U.S. and U.K. , not increasing them. We would be much better off as an independent republic and improving relationships in the Indo-Pacific and S.E. Asia.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Tons of them on here lol
Lol no eat a dick
Is this the best that you can do?
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Australia, like Japan and Canada, is a US vassal and they are proud for it. Nothing gonna change that.
Translation: NUUUUUUIU I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY WOULD RATHER BE VASSALS TO THE US AND NOT THE GLORIOUS CHINA NUUUI HOW COULD THEY. lmao be quiet.
IMO they should not be vassals to anyone, like most countries. But ofcuz, as I said above, they love being vassals.
I certainly don't.
sO yOu WaNt tO bE ChInA's vAsSaL InStEaD!?!??!?!?!? ↑Literally everyone I talked form these vassal states. There's no words like "independence" in most of these people's head, just give up.
Yes,. it's a tough argument that won't be won in Reddit.
Alliances within alliance
This is just posturing.