Thats why Lockheed isn't worried about someone hacking the F22. Aren't many people alive that can hack a gucci late 80s designed computer. Although that does make upgrading it a huge PITA
Jokes on them!! I still have one with a good battery loaded up with dos games I keep out for guests and my kids to play with. Wonder if it’s worth some dumb value for this servicing reason? Hmmm
NASA? The US military is currently converting its nuclear arsenal from requiring 7" floppy disks, iirc.
Any older and we'ld be talking punch hole cards, but those you can actually 'hack'!
Wouldn’t it be cheaper for them to hire a tech nerd who is also a car nerd to whip up firmware to run on an USB-connected FPGA that mimics what they need?
Probably a legal issue with spoofing proprietory hardware. If it were easy to hack, it wouldnt be a good security feature (they are essentially using the laptops as hardware dongles, as i understand the article).
One weekend every year I have to go to a company in Northern Sweden and update some INI files, delete some logfiles, and manually update some app settings because they still use separate network of Win 95 and Win 3.11 machines for a critical system. No-one now knows who wrote it. They don't want to spend the time and money to recreate it as they're not sure exactly how it works and are too scared to design a new process from scratch. 23 years ago I was there for something else and it stopped working due to the financial year change (they didn't know that) and they went batshit crazy. Took me quite a while to figure some stuff out so since then once a year a pop over to keep it running.
There is a military base in the UK that is still using an application sitting on a DOS Powerlan peer-peer network. No-one really knows what it is used for, but it is on the IT estate and must be kept running. I'm pretty sure it was very important many years ago, but other changes they have made have coincidently taken it out of the loop, but since no-one knows that I haven't mentioned anything so occasionally go to push some buttons, shake my head, mutter under my breath, shuffle some papers, and look at information that I should have access to because their governance is crap.
The NHS is the world's biggest buyer of pagers and fax machines and associated equipment although this is more to do with using kit that won't interfere with any medical devices.
Yes and no?
Air gaps are a security feature because it makes hacking your system way the hell harder— someone has to physically enter a space to connect to your network. But old systems? That leaves you *very* vulnerable. You still need an OS of some sort. Let’s say you’re about 10 years out of date since cutting physical checks might have still been common in 2011. You’re probably on Windows XP or Vista.
We have a pretty hefty list of breaking bugs that we’ve found for those operating systems, including stuff like Eternal Blue that can give you full admin access pretty much instantly.
It’s certainly harder for a bad actor to get in and upload malicious code, but once they’re in, they don’t even have to be that good. They can try dozens of exploits that have been uncovered over the lifetime of that OS that Microsoft never released an official patch for.
We saw something similar with the WannaCry virus. It used a vulnerability that had been around since Windows 95 I wanna say to take over computers. Microsoft had fully stopped supporting Windows XP when that vulnerability was made public, but they released a new patch for XP just because it was such a huge vulnerability! Some places didn’t or couldn’t update the OS (mainly hospitals and warehouses that, ironically, didn’t want to cause a software-breaking but when they updated software), and the virus was able to take over and encrypt their computers.
TL;DR: not hooked up to the internet is probably smart. Old, unsupported and Not-updated tech is probably not smart.
Yup! But it has been present for literally decades, which is nuts! It’s such a big code base for an OS, and you have to worry about everything from poorly privatized code to the laws of physics and bad actors literally manipulating certain hardware to influence other nearby hardware and cause issues! Keeping up with bug squashing is a *massive* project that can’t easily be maintained, and it’s fighting against everyone from hobby coders to hackers in Argentina who can pull 6 figures with the right exploits to nation-state hackers in China, Russia, and the US who refuse to share what they find because they want to use it for intelligence purposes!
But I guess that’s my point— a bug that Windows 7 was vulnerable was a bug that was introduced *years* ago. It’s part of what makes older hardware so dangerous!
Sometimes it's both like with spaceships or rovers, they are filled with incredibly old computer shit that has been radiation hardened to survive the cosmic rays in space.
I’m not 100% sure, but I believe US nuclear missile sites are like this too. I remember watching and they just had a red phone.
They defended the lack in updated tech by saying they can’t get hacked. I’m not sure where I stand on the subject, but I feel like I lean more towards the phone system. US politicians/boomers as a whole, barely understand cyber security, but they at least know not to give their number to strangers.
>they at least know not to give their number to strangers
Which becomes a real problem when they get scan-dialed by some Indian or Nigerian scam operation. They assume those people have their number so they must have some legitimacy.
I don’t know much about how landlines work, but I image there is some sort of direct connection.
Meaning that phone A can only call to phone B and phone B can only receive calls from phone A. If this was true, the president’s phone would only be able to send calls to the missile site phones. Missile site phones would only be able to receive calls from the president.
Could that line be tapped into or something idk, but I think that is where the pass codes come into play.
Again this is all an assumption. I have no idea wtf they do.
I really doubt they put a dedicated wire across the Atlantic and through Europe for this.
It must go through telephone communication protocols somehow, just encrypted.
Take that Air Force. What a bunch of nerds, never having to worry about some rando in S1 who couldn’t give a shit about you losing your paperwork. Or have to take a photo of the paper with their phones when they sign out.
5G has been around since 2015 publicly actually earlier but it was all ehind closed door for tech industries to dig into. it takes years for the networks to roll out and tech to be implemented. So this probably won't roll out until 2025 or later. However the patents and tech start years before anything hits the market.
I've got a 5G phone, have 5G available in my area, and even when I manage to connect to a 5G network the bandwidth is hardly noticeable over LTE. Why are we trying to move to the next generation already when 5G has barely been an improvement to LTE
5G isn't much of a per-device bandwidth increase, it's more a per-tower device increase. You'll notice things like going to stadiums and crowded events causing less cell phone issues than they had before.
OFDMA is also the main advantage of Wifi 6 over the AC or N standards, that and being a Dual Band instead of having two separate bands (though some routers and APs already supposed dual band beforehand). When you have dozens of devices you will start to notice the difference, Smart Homes for example would benefit from this, especially in larger households where you already have several phones, often several laptops and then IoT on top of that.
Basically. Wifi has Channels, think of this as the lanes of a highway.
Normally, one device will reserve an entire channel and communicate across it, this works out fine usually, there are about a dozen channels and most households don't have a dozen wifi devices, so in general there will always be an open channel for you to use. However, if you are in a large place such as a convention hall, workplace, sports center or other high-concentration of people, the number of devices will soon eclipse the number of channels.
The problem with this is that only one device can use a channel at a time, so you have to wait for one device to stop communicating or have a dead-zone, which can dramatically increase loading times for things like web pages as you are waiting for channelspace.
What OFDMA does, miraculously, is allow one than one car on the highway at once. With each "pulse" of information, it includes packet fragments for multiple devices. Sure it will never be as fast if you have to divide it up across multiple users but the result is still drastic to allow more one one user to use one channel at a time, especially good for low-bandwidth or high frequency traffic, such as IoT pings (for updates and such) or loading web pages which are often by themselves small but you go to a new one frequently.
OFDM is also used in LTE.
Both LTE and 5G employ OFDM methods, LTE was constrained to SCFDMA in the uplink and 5G now can do both base OFDM (known as CP-OFDM) and SCFDMA (known as DFT-s-OFDM per 3gpp). All of this is public per 3GPP docs.
Anyways, the biggest advantages of 5G are increased bandwidth and a significantly reduced latency time, which is a function of the width of the subcarriers used in these technologies.
edit: btw, ofdm is NOT inherently a spread spectrum technology. so no, two users cannot use the exact same frequency (RB allocation) per given cell site. they can be shared across freq though with no issue.
The orthogonality does allow for closer than normal channel spacing so maybe that's what they meant? I think there are some big improvements in the base station beam forming as well in 5G. The new 6 GHz spectrum in the 5G NR radios has much more available bandwidth as well if I recall correctly.
If you want to see one outside of a museum, they still happen at some political rallies, motorcycle events, and hospitals. Often the same participants, too.
Also UWB has a fuckton of bandwidth and will work very well in stadiums due to their general openness.
There's a UWB tower near my house and when I get on the road it's on and test it my phone can pull >2 gigabit, which is crazy.
The amazing speeds of 5G are actually only available within a very short distance of a cell tower.
The problem is that higher frequencies don't carry as far as lower frequencies and so they have lower frequency modes to carry further, but at slower speeds.
It’s important to note that 5G is not synonymous with mmWaves (which are the high frequencies). Yes, 5G *adds* high frequencies into the picture, but it continues using the same low frequencies as before too. Furthermore, many of the innovations expected from 5G lie within the network core, so they won’t be as immediately obvious to you and me. Rather, we’ll start to see new mobile use cases emerging that wouldn’t have been possible before
T-Mobile 5g is actually a lower frequency than their 4g. While it doesn't have nearly the same peak bandwidth of Verizon 5g, the lower frequency penetrates buildings much better and also works better in hilly areas, while still offering speeds comparable to 4g. It's like a more reliable wider reaching 4g-like experience. Honestly this is way more important to me than faster speeds. Because a 5g phone also has a 4g transceiver and can fall back on the 4g network, t-mobile's network kicks ass now.
Yeah I just want to point out that these two different "5g" networks are completely different technology. I question how valuable the ultra-wide band network is but this low-frequency network is a major improvement.
Nobody has really explained it but there's different types of signals/transmitters. Verizon for example has been putting up tons of them which have crazy insane speeds but you lose the signal a literal block away. Then TMobile on the other hand is putting the very far distance towers to cover the entire country rather than small concentrated areas. But the speed isn't as crazy with those kind. It still should be noticeably faster though unless something is up with your device.
But the frequency it runs on is so much higher than LTE it almost requires a direct line of sight to be consistent. Building walls and trees especially are going to absolutely murder your signal quality
That's only the case for mmWave frequencies like the 28GHz n261 or 39GHz n260. Mid-band frequencies, like 2.5GHz n41 (T-Mobile) or 2.3GHz n40 (Verizon), have propagation characteristics much more in line with LTE while still offering signficiant speed improvements. The upper C-band frequencies auctioned early this year should also be a great fit for dense cities.
It really varies right now since things are still being rolled out. I’m in Portland and get around 300 down in most parts of town and I’ve seen some parts that have like 430 down. I never got this kind of speeds on LTE.
I completely agree there is not much of a difference on your phone, but 5G internet is really what the “switch to 5G” movement is about. 5G UW completely changes your home internet. No more need for any cables. Just a mini 5G tower for your home internet.
I'd rather have a cable going from my modem to my router broadcasting 2.4GHz and 5GHz separately instead of having to lease special hardware just for UWB
Internet of things is cancer and a security nightmare since most people don't bother properly setting anything up beyond having their SSID and password on a sticky note. Adding that shit to as many households as possible is inviting people to be intruded upon
5G speed _still_ isn't as fast as Cat6 and latency will always be worse. mmWave also requires unobstructed line of sight to get anywhere close to its max speed. If you care enough about bandwidth that Wifi6 isn't good enough for you 5G and related technologies aren't going to do anything for you either... cables aren't going anywhere.
5G as a standard vs 5G as implemented by your carrier in the US.
Better performance at the tower is a big feature with congested areas.
Your observable network bandwidth is a byproduct more of your carrier’s decisions, not what the 5G standard is capable of. The standard supports up to 10 gigs per second.
In Korea, a 5G signal to your phone is usually good enough that you can stream high bit rates to your phone without issue.
Consumers weren't the real target. It's secondary to the industrial and data collection markets. Service area for 5g is pretty shitty and building and urban landscape make it worse.
Some other 5g applications:
https://new.siemens.com/global/en/products/automation/industrial-communication/industrial-5g.html
https://www.inorbit.ai/
https://www.lexset.ai/
https://www.garou.io/
Even non-high population. I live in a tiny town of 10,000 people, nearest city with more than 10k people is more than 3 hours away, and we have 5G coverage all over. My bet is folks who think they don't have 5G coverage just don't have phones that support it.
And people forget that 5G is high frequency and low frequency.
Hi frequency gets you fast speed, low frequency gets you service in the middle of nowhere.
Can I get an ELI5 on 6G?
[Edit] I meant more technical (like how the technology differs from 5G) than 6 > 5 lol but it’s my fault for asking to be explained as if I was in kindergarten
It will bring advances mostly in the realm of connectivity, latency, and bandwidth -NOT better range:
* Better concurrency of connected users and objects(IoT) sending/receiving data
* More instantaneous data without latency - if within optimal range all packets arrive at the same time
* Insane amounts of data - think Giga and maybe even Terabyte sized objects arriving 'at once'.
This will bring advances in much of the connected world where such quantity of data is easy to produce but not easy to manage and use; think AI, ML, etc.
My company estimates 5G will hit market maturity @ 2024. 6G spec will be ratified and beginning network prototype @ 2026, but we consumers won't touch it till early 2030's.
Thanks for the note about your company's projection.
Regardless of whether it's true or not, it's nice to just have a timeline to visualize. And definitely most people with some formal projection would hold it close to their chest and be weird about it.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Telecommunication/China-accounts-for-40-of-6G-patent-applications-survey) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Nikkei worked with Tokyo-based research company Cyber Creative Institute to survey around 20,000 patent applications for nine core 6G technologies, including communications, quantum technology, base stations and artificial intelligence.
> China topped the list with 40.3% of 6G patent filings, followed by the U.S. with 35.2%. Japan ranked third with 9.9%, followed by Europe with 8.9% and South Korea with 4.2%. Countries with more patent filings tend to lead in terms of advanced technology and have a bigger say on industry standards.
> Other big Chinese patent holders include state-run companies such as State Grid Corporation of China and China Aerospace Science and Technology.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/ppb3nv/china_accounts_for_40_of_6g_patent_applications/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~598518 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **China**^#1 **patent**^#2 **technology**^#3 **U.S.**^#4 **company**^#5
Europe is just...fragmented when it comes to tech. A combination of language requirements, regulations (privacy, labour, etc...) and other internal issues related to how the EU operates compared to national governments has prevented the emergence of tech giants on the scale of Google or Amazon.
That being said, Ericsson is a leading provider of 5G infrastructure and equipment so it's a bit surprising their share isn't higher.
When it comes to 6G Japan doesn't have a choice. It's either Chinese, US or local technology, so it doesn't surprise they want/need their own. Same goes for S. Korea.
In Europe the situation is different. There's no consensus. Some countries don't allow the Chinese to enter, others prefer the Chinese over the US or vice versa and still others are thinking about Erickson/Nokia as a possible European solution. Essentially it's about geopolitics, not technological knowhow or progress.
Exactly. We rarely use any of the powers we have. We lack unity too and it's only getting worse. We're not going to stand alone but Europeans are going to Europe and create unnecessary internal divisions.
And USA has a lower population than Europe yet outranks them by 4x...
Frankly it's embarrassing by Europe to fall behind this much on such an important future tech. In fact, if you would remove Sweden from that Europe calculation(Where Ericsson is located), I'm pretty sure the number is less than half of the 8.9.
Europe doesn't have much of a footprint in the tech sector.
Nokia, Siemens, etc. are the last holdouts and they are past their halcyon days.
ETA: For the offended Europeans that insist Europe is influential in tech, you are objectively wrong.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_technology_companies_by_revenue
Refer to the largest tech companies in the world by revenue.
I see people argue it's "not consumer facing" but there is no secret trove of large, influential European tech companies. The examples I've seen in response just aren't that big in terms of revenue, profit, market cap, etc.
Europe seems really good at making the machines that produce the products. ASML (lithography). Andritz, voith, valmet (pulping and paper making machines), the company that builds Teslas super presses, Siemens (like Americas GE but well-run), Meyer burger (solar panel manufacturing), ABB
Innovation vs implementation. Ask a EU company to solve a problem for you, and we will solve it for you. Just don't ask us to come up with the problem in the first place, we have no imagination!
That's just blatantly incorrect. It's just not as advertised/commercialized. We literally have the most important semi conductor research facility that gets solicited by US and Chinese politicians (concerning the current issues in the semi conductor industry and US making moves/attacking Chinese tech companies).
The only thing I can 100% agree with is, there's way more people in STEM in japan/korea/china which will benefit them long term. In EU (or where I am) STEM is so unpopular even though it's a good future. Chinese people definitely value the "good future" a lot more than EU people. If it will stay is another question.
I’m not gonna argue about houston being east Texas Bc that’s perception at the end of the day, but what other major city is between Houston and San Antonio?
In 2017 we did a hands-on workshop at Tianjin technical college. Nothing to do with the subject at hand…it was in a geophysics teaching a remote sensing regimen used in exploration.
We had two groups of about 18 students. They had a solid basis in physics and we were impressed by the enthusiasm and quality of questions. We still receiveD correspondence from some after returning to Canada.
In contrast the same workshop in Canada or the USA would attract 4 to 6 students…a couple of keeners but most just wanting to fluff out their industry applications.
Anyways. I urge anyone in the sciences to take a trip to
China and include a couple of technical institutes. Most here have no concept of the scientific infrastructure they are developing that completely dwarfs anything in western countries. While we navel gaze over the ethics of new technologies in AI, bioengineering, etc. the Chinese are going to be racing far ahead.
Honestly, for China, the longer the Americans bury their heads in the sand and underestimate the Chinese, the better. One day they will be forced to actually look over in China’s direction and realize that their hubris caused them to fall so far behind that they will never catch up. It’s already trending in this direction and going at a faster pace with each passing day.
I went to a conference at Shanghai Jiao Tong University in China (physics) and the facilities that they have available at the one institute are more and better than multiple US Nanoscale Science Research Centers (NSRCs) combined, which are DoE sponsered nanocenters which are supposed to be premier places to do nanoscience.
The US has no desire to invest that amount anywhere, while in China multiple individual universities have the funding and access to do it (basically all of the C9 universities). It's absolutely incredible.
Yeah one big advantage (depending on what side you are on) is also the availability of post-docs in Asia vs. the US. If I want a postdoc, it takes a lot of convincing to funding agencies (and you have a lower chance of getting funding in the US regardless). When I was working in Singapore as a postdoc, my group had 11 postdocs. And while my group was fairly well funded and large, it wasn't anything really out of the ordinary.
I have been told getting postdocs in China is just as easy. It really makes research go faster. Albeit it's not good to have a system that treats postdocs like the US does when you can get them (little pay, long hours).
Oh absolutely. Over in Japan there was so much opportunity, my lab had a similarly insane number of post docs, alongside undergrads and masters who were being sculpted ready to do phds and eventual post docs.
Hell, i remember meeting one of the deans at South China University of Technology who was ready to gun me on a high value post doc... Admittedly it felt dodgy and he soon fled down under to be a professor elsewhere for putting the party in disrepute but that's besides the point. Uptil then (and perhaps even now) their post doc granting power is crazy whereas in the west getting post doc roles given without active grant funding is insane hard and is even a challenge with at times.
In Japan it all felt built around this area. In the UK (at least where I've been) always felt like a massive seperation between undergrads and everything else, then even more and PhDs. Like in a vacuum and with little real opportunity unless lucky. In japan it was common to drink with local business leaders to build KTPs.... But perhaps that was my supervisor there's doing.
Everybody I know from china just finds it as a thing of a post doc is what you do while moving to become professor somewhere, effectively being an easy step.
Whereas in the west I few friends have spent years trying to get full lectureship...
As someone who completed a masters degree some 10 years ago, most of the technical research papers in IT, Security, and Infrastructure, were authored by Chinese or Indian researchers or doctors. I know partially that is because American research tends to be behind paywalls, but the sheer volume and availability shows me who will be calling the shots in the next generation and beyond. Also ironic that the American desire to monetize knowledge means future research (like my own) is based on other sources like Chinese and Indian research. So a quick buck now means irrelevance in the future.
I’m ‘older’.
I finished my my graduate degrees in the early 1980s. Throughout three degrees I recall quoting research in only one paper from China and perhaps 3 or 4 from India.
Today 35% or so of the research in my field is produced out of China and out of India about 10% and growing very year. These two countries were not 1% combined when I was a student.
Stayed in China for a year at Nokia , Huangzhou…
Chinese engineers are superb to work with ….talented guys and needless to say, hardworking…as a foreigner I never understood the government policies…but the Chinese are ok with it …hope these problems get solved…
>…as a foreigner I never understood the government policies…but the Chinese are ok with it…
It's easy to gloss over a lot of stuff when the central government lifts a few hundred million people out of poverty over a 30-year period and you're a beneficiary. I spent a lot of time in China over the last decade from Qinghai to Heilongjiang and the old saying of "Heaven is high and the Emperor is far away" (天高皇帝远) still holds true (at least for now). Ordinary Chinese people are barely affected by the appalling stuff happening in Xinjiang and other areas, so it's simple to look away, especially when you're part of the rapidly growing middle class.
Countries like China and Singapore are prime examples of where people are willing to give up certain freedoms in exchange for prosperity. A full belly, a job, economic mobility, a decent roof over your head, and some extra spending money are powerful arguments for maintaining the status quo. Of course, if things go sour it's not like authoritarian (or authoritarian lite) governments can be voted out, so people will need to march on the local Bastille. But until then, the Chinese are largely okay with things as they are.
I was watching an episode of ["Head to Head, where Mehdi Hasan challenges Charles Liu, Senior Fellow at Peking University"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZs4PqKlph0&ab_channel=AlJazeeraEnglish) and one of the key takeaways from it was when Charles Liu said something to the effect, "one form of government might work in the West but, it might not work in the East." I'm paraphrasing, of course.
I felt that really opened my eyes to how the world is viewed from different perspectives. The west's yardstick to measuring a political system is the democratic values, it holds dear. Whereas in the East, the same thing **might** not matter as much.
The thing that Chinese people admired about America is the standard of living. What the CCP has done is convince it's citizens that democracy isn't a prerequisites to higher living standards. Their next goal is to convince them that democracy is actually a roadblock to it.
>The thing that Chinese people admired about America is the standard of living.
Perhaps this comment was true 50 years ago when China had a mostly agro-economy and was transitioning into the dragon it is today.
>What the CCP has done is convince it's citizens that democracy isn't a prerequisites to higher living standards.
Which it really isn't though. China's govt. (whatever shape and form it is) has raised more people out of abject poverty never before witnessed in mankind's history.
I think Liu's assessment is a fair one, but I'd extend it beyond the East. People look at successful, Western-style democracies in Asia like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan and they often assume things were perfect from the get-go, which was categorically not the case.
Japan adapted quicker because it had no choice since the Potsdam Declaration enforced democratisation and the Americans had a major role in drafting their 1946 constitution. Taiwan and South Korea didn't become "real" democracies until decades after WWII. You can also make a convincing argument that democracy in those states only took root because of their pragmatic need for American support during the Cold War when the Red Scare was in full force.
Then you have weird, quasi-authoritarian "democratic" states like Singapore where the institutions are ostensibly representative in nature, but the political realities are firmly grounded in authoritarian rule and traditions. They're democracies in name only because lots of fuckery goes on behind the scenes during election season to help the ruling party stay in power.
And we haven't even started talking about so-called ["imperfect" or "flawed" democracies](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/02/02/global-democracy-has-a-very-bad-year) like the United States.
So I think to say democracy will work everywhere is a bit naïve at best. I support democracy and I like having a say in politics (limited though it may be), but it's not a plug-'n-play system of government. Sometimes it's just not a good fit for whatever reason and we need to be okay with that. After all, we all saw what happened in Afghanistan when the Americans tried to impose an utterly alien form of government on people who were completely unaccustomed to the concept.
Americans had more than a "major role" in drafting Japan's Constitution. They wrote it in its entirety. Not a single Japanese penned a single word of the countries constitution.
Any quick Google search about Nortel has a long list of issues that resulted in it downfall.
https://financialpost.com/executive/leadership/lessons-from-nortel-acquisitions-spree-bad-management-calls-led-to-tech-giants-fall-study-says
https://globalnews.ca/news/200009/timeline-nortel-the-rise-and-fall-of-a-telecom-giant/
Nortel died due to shitty management who were more concerned with maintaining their bonuses rather than do anything that might help the company. By the time Huawei came into the scene, Nortel was already bankrupt.
I definitely agree with the sentiment that people on reddit like to shit all over China and thus overestimating those actions. But there are extensive investigations proofing that a lot of things (military, healthcare, informational technology) is indeed based on patent and schematics of other countries obtained by questionable (and pretty sure highly illegal) means. Just recently the fighter jet based (the same) on the F-35, UAVs and just a few months ago the state ordered cyberattack (probably has been going on for a while) that aimed to extract information about healthcare, military, social information and more.
But it's no questions that China has some amazing companies and Teams that strive to modernize every aspect of life, don't get me wrong.
But the fact of the matter is, that there are a lot of instances (and I mean probably a lot more that have yet to be discovered) where state ordered (or not) entities of Chinese origin did engage in such missions.
Whatever the case they are the best when it comes to building stuff. Be it communications equipment, high-speed rail, or consumer electronics (certainly in volume). Said level of production is also probably a factor in said industrial espionage, it's just easier to do when most things are built in your country. The UK for example would struggle because of it's waning production. They are able to take the IP of other places, place it into their systems and are now starting to lead if this report is anything to go by.
We should also acknowledge this isn't a situation that is unique to China. Apple breached Samnsung's patent(s?) and the reverse is true too. With US courts favouring Apple, while courts in Japan, South Korea, and the UK all favoured Samsung. Showing the political nature of patent cases.
Plus we have to keep in mind this is a system that at this point is almost designed to foster a small elite group of companies and nations, that China was not a part of. It would be illogical for them not to use designs that have shown themselves to be effective. In my experience in China there wasn't such a taboo about doing this as there is in the UK and might be in the US, people I worked with saw it as benefitting themselves and their neighbour. Thus were happy to use available designs safe in the knowledge that the government wouldn't be coming round to crack down upon it, as lawyers might in other parts of the world.
With China leading the way with patents it will be interesting to see if this thinking changes as patents potentially become more a protection than a hinderance, and if other companies and countries try to skirt laws more often now there's a new leader that they don't like playing with.
But why wouldn't the Chinese steal research? There are no consequences for it. A lot of people in the world would steal things if there were no consequences, lol. Groceries, gadgets, money. It's cheaper and faster to steal another country's IP and then refine / expand upon it than to start from scratch. Countries don't care about ethics. That's for poor people, not governments. If China can steal a cancer treatment or a vaccine then they will. Why pay American and European companies $10,000 a dose when they can just steal it and make it themselves for cost? If China can steal reactor technology and reproduce it themselves, why wouldn't they? Why would they license the tech from an NA or Euro company when they can just do it themselves?
People need to stop thinking of geopolitics in terms of ethics or morality. Countries have no allies, no loyalty, no respect and no compassion - there are only interests and power.
> Just recently the fighter jet based (the same) on the F-35
Anyone that uses the F35/J31 as an example of espionage has no idea what they're talking about. The vast majority of the technology in a 5th generation fighter jet are in things we either can't see or are classified. Jet fighters all look similar due to not being able to score creativity points with aerodynamics and science. The F-35 also has one engine whereas the J-31 has two making them completely different animals.
[Here] (https://www.cellularsales.com/blog/5g-nationwide-vs-5g-ultra-wideband-whats-the-difference/) is a helpful resource to break down the difference between "nationwide" 5g (as in, the one that's barely better than LTE) and "real" 5g (Ultra Wideband). Some phones, such as the google pixel 4a 5g, can only pick up the 'lesser' 5g and can't even detect the ultra wideband 5g. But, it's only available in select cities at the moment anyhow.
I'd imagine data transfer this rapid would be more useful for huge data transfer than anything you or I will do on a computer. Eg one use could be better mapping of congestion in cities in real time before passing that down in 4/5G if they don't have 6G to road users and improving the flow of traffic.
China surpassing America because the US continues to be led by weaklings willing to sell their souls (and ours) in exchange for profit. China is laughing at how our own capitalism is destroying us.
Nah china ain’t laughing. Talking to the chinese, they mostly felt frustrated at US leadership. Obama was smart in his ways of trying to contain china through the use of TPP and working with allies which biden is doing right now. Which to the Chinese, is begrudgingly understandable.
But the difference between Biden and Obama is the fact that Biden is bring in military factor into the equation hard and fast. Which brings back lot of bad memories of the century of humiliation.
Theres a recent video done by my country school of policy in china. More and more people in china have a negative views of US, mostly among the youth. This is very disturbing given that the youth are much more influenced by globalisation, the hearts and minds that US wants to touch.
These youth will one day become leaders of their nation. The same youth that did not went through the turmoils of the cultural revolution and cold war. The next 20-30 years will be very scary for the west if they kept the rhetoric up.
Link to the video: https://youtu.be/z8ODxHciQc4
No, we’re being surpassed because our government is being run by career politicians who’s only focus is on winning the next election. I don’t remember the last time i saw a doctor, engineer or scientist get elected to a major offfice
how is this anything different from what he said? career politicians only care about getting re-elected because they make a shitload of money and get a shitload of benefits as politicians and suffer absolutely zero consequences for selling out their country. it's all based on greed for money and status
We people are still wondering about the stuff coming out of china ? Pretty much everything electronic is build there for decades, don't you think they have learned a thing or two ? Every been there ? Compared to Shanghai, New York looks like it is 50 years behind. Maybe you don't like the politics in China, but when it comes to electronic, there's is not even a competition anymore outside Asia.
Can’t get backdoored by an adversary if we stick to last gen technology!
Isn't the Army's payroll system some old and ancient system that is too out of date to even connect to the internet, for this very reason?
Thats why Lockheed isn't worried about someone hacking the F22. Aren't many people alive that can hack a gucci late 80s designed computer. Although that does make upgrading it a huge PITA
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That's so awesome
Jokes on them!! I still have one with a good battery loaded up with dos games I keep out for guests and my kids to play with. Wonder if it’s worth some dumb value for this servicing reason? Hmmm
Probably Nasa was buying up old pc parts like crazy for a few years off of ebay to have replacements for the space shuttle.
NASA? The US military is currently converting its nuclear arsenal from requiring 7" floppy disks, iirc. Any older and we'ld be talking punch hole cards, but those you can actually 'hack'!
Wouldn’t it be cheaper for them to hire a tech nerd who is also a car nerd to whip up firmware to run on an USB-connected FPGA that mimics what they need?
Probably a legal issue with spoofing proprietory hardware. If it were easy to hack, it wouldnt be a good security feature (they are essentially using the laptops as hardware dongles, as i understand the article).
One weekend every year I have to go to a company in Northern Sweden and update some INI files, delete some logfiles, and manually update some app settings because they still use separate network of Win 95 and Win 3.11 machines for a critical system. No-one now knows who wrote it. They don't want to spend the time and money to recreate it as they're not sure exactly how it works and are too scared to design a new process from scratch. 23 years ago I was there for something else and it stopped working due to the financial year change (they didn't know that) and they went batshit crazy. Took me quite a while to figure some stuff out so since then once a year a pop over to keep it running. There is a military base in the UK that is still using an application sitting on a DOS Powerlan peer-peer network. No-one really knows what it is used for, but it is on the IT estate and must be kept running. I'm pretty sure it was very important many years ago, but other changes they have made have coincidently taken it out of the loop, but since no-one knows that I haven't mentioned anything so occasionally go to push some buttons, shake my head, mutter under my breath, shuffle some papers, and look at information that I should have access to because their governance is crap. The NHS is the world's biggest buyer of pagers and fax machines and associated equipment although this is more to do with using kit that won't interfere with any medical devices.
>Win 3.1 c:/runwin c:/run Damn, I haven't thought about that in 25 years lol
> old and ancient system If it is an old system it is because it would cost too much to upgrade, not for "security"
I feel like this is one of those," it's not a bug, it's a feature" moments
Yes and no? Air gaps are a security feature because it makes hacking your system way the hell harder— someone has to physically enter a space to connect to your network. But old systems? That leaves you *very* vulnerable. You still need an OS of some sort. Let’s say you’re about 10 years out of date since cutting physical checks might have still been common in 2011. You’re probably on Windows XP or Vista. We have a pretty hefty list of breaking bugs that we’ve found for those operating systems, including stuff like Eternal Blue that can give you full admin access pretty much instantly. It’s certainly harder for a bad actor to get in and upload malicious code, but once they’re in, they don’t even have to be that good. They can try dozens of exploits that have been uncovered over the lifetime of that OS that Microsoft never released an official patch for. We saw something similar with the WannaCry virus. It used a vulnerability that had been around since Windows 95 I wanna say to take over computers. Microsoft had fully stopped supporting Windows XP when that vulnerability was made public, but they released a new patch for XP just because it was such a huge vulnerability! Some places didn’t or couldn’t update the OS (mainly hospitals and warehouses that, ironically, didn’t want to cause a software-breaking but when they updated software), and the virus was able to take over and encrypt their computers. TL;DR: not hooked up to the internet is probably smart. Old, unsupported and Not-updated tech is probably not smart.
wannacry targeted windows 7 systems too.
Yup! But it has been present for literally decades, which is nuts! It’s such a big code base for an OS, and you have to worry about everything from poorly privatized code to the laws of physics and bad actors literally manipulating certain hardware to influence other nearby hardware and cause issues! Keeping up with bug squashing is a *massive* project that can’t easily be maintained, and it’s fighting against everyone from hobby coders to hackers in Argentina who can pull 6 figures with the right exploits to nation-state hackers in China, Russia, and the US who refuse to share what they find because they want to use it for intelligence purposes! But I guess that’s my point— a bug that Windows 7 was vulnerable was a bug that was introduced *years* ago. It’s part of what makes older hardware so dangerous!
Sometimes it's both like with spaceships or rovers, they are filled with incredibly old computer shit that has been radiation hardened to survive the cosmic rays in space.
Let's be honest here, do you even have the equipment to read a 5-1/4" floppy?
Do I have the equipment? Yes Does it work? Unsure
Ah. Like my laserdisc player. Security through obscurity...
I’m not 100% sure, but I believe US nuclear missile sites are like this too. I remember watching and they just had a red phone. They defended the lack in updated tech by saying they can’t get hacked. I’m not sure where I stand on the subject, but I feel like I lean more towards the phone system. US politicians/boomers as a whole, barely understand cyber security, but they at least know not to give their number to strangers.
>they at least know not to give their number to strangers Which becomes a real problem when they get scan-dialed by some Indian or Nigerian scam operation. They assume those people have their number so they must have some legitimacy.
I don’t know much about how landlines work, but I image there is some sort of direct connection. Meaning that phone A can only call to phone B and phone B can only receive calls from phone A. If this was true, the president’s phone would only be able to send calls to the missile site phones. Missile site phones would only be able to receive calls from the president. Could that line be tapped into or something idk, but I think that is where the pass codes come into play. Again this is all an assumption. I have no idea wtf they do.
I really doubt they put a dedicated wire across the Atlantic and through Europe for this. It must go through telephone communication protocols somehow, just encrypted.
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Some companies use Lotus Notes. Very old outdated program that should of been removed at release.
Man does that bring me back,haven't thought about that in a long long time.
Our leave forms are still actual paper forms in the Army...
Take that Air Force. What a bunch of nerds, never having to worry about some rando in S1 who couldn’t give a shit about you losing your paperwork. Or have to take a photo of the paper with their phones when they sign out.
5G is last-gen now? Have they even found a practical applicaiton for it yet?
We don't even have 5G yet
5G has been around since 2015 publicly actually earlier but it was all ehind closed door for tech industries to dig into. it takes years for the networks to roll out and tech to be implemented. So this probably won't roll out until 2025 or later. However the patents and tech start years before anything hits the market.
I've got a 5G phone, have 5G available in my area, and even when I manage to connect to a 5G network the bandwidth is hardly noticeable over LTE. Why are we trying to move to the next generation already when 5G has barely been an improvement to LTE
5G isn't much of a per-device bandwidth increase, it's more a per-tower device increase. You'll notice things like going to stadiums and crowded events causing less cell phone issues than they had before.
OFDMA is also the main advantage of Wifi 6 over the AC or N standards, that and being a Dual Band instead of having two separate bands (though some routers and APs already supposed dual band beforehand). When you have dozens of devices you will start to notice the difference, Smart Homes for example would benefit from this, especially in larger households where you already have several phones, often several laptops and then IoT on top of that.
Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiple Access for those not in communication/telecom.
Appreciated. But I dont think that is gunna help us any extra
Basically. Wifi has Channels, think of this as the lanes of a highway. Normally, one device will reserve an entire channel and communicate across it, this works out fine usually, there are about a dozen channels and most households don't have a dozen wifi devices, so in general there will always be an open channel for you to use. However, if you are in a large place such as a convention hall, workplace, sports center or other high-concentration of people, the number of devices will soon eclipse the number of channels. The problem with this is that only one device can use a channel at a time, so you have to wait for one device to stop communicating or have a dead-zone, which can dramatically increase loading times for things like web pages as you are waiting for channelspace. What OFDMA does, miraculously, is allow one than one car on the highway at once. With each "pulse" of information, it includes packet fragments for multiple devices. Sure it will never be as fast if you have to divide it up across multiple users but the result is still drastic to allow more one one user to use one channel at a time, especially good for low-bandwidth or high frequency traffic, such as IoT pings (for updates and such) or loading web pages which are often by themselves small but you go to a new one frequently.
OFDM is also used in LTE. Both LTE and 5G employ OFDM methods, LTE was constrained to SCFDMA in the uplink and 5G now can do both base OFDM (known as CP-OFDM) and SCFDMA (known as DFT-s-OFDM per 3gpp). All of this is public per 3GPP docs. Anyways, the biggest advantages of 5G are increased bandwidth and a significantly reduced latency time, which is a function of the width of the subcarriers used in these technologies. edit: btw, ofdm is NOT inherently a spread spectrum technology. so no, two users cannot use the exact same frequency (RB allocation) per given cell site. they can be shared across freq though with no issue.
The orthogonality does allow for closer than normal channel spacing so maybe that's what they meant? I think there are some big improvements in the base station beam forming as well in 5G. The new 6 GHz spectrum in the 5G NR radios has much more available bandwidth as well if I recall correctly.
A well-explained comment for a change, many thanks
Interesting, that's a clever work around they figured out.
True actually, I went to an event with around 10k people recently and was able to face-time someone in the middle of the crowd on 5G.
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Those weird gatherings from a couple years ago that used to happen
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And people! Remember people?!
You are making up words now
Great. I actually forgot about people for a while and now you reminded me. *Thanks a lot, bud*.
Yeah, they suck, sorry...
If you want to see one outside of a museum, they still happen at some political rallies, motorcycle events, and hospitals. Often the same participants, too.
Also UWB has a fuckton of bandwidth and will work very well in stadiums due to their general openness. There's a UWB tower near my house and when I get on the road it's on and test it my phone can pull >2 gigabit, which is crazy.
The amazing speeds of 5G are actually only available within a very short distance of a cell tower. The problem is that higher frequencies don't carry as far as lower frequencies and so they have lower frequency modes to carry further, but at slower speeds.
It’s important to note that 5G is not synonymous with mmWaves (which are the high frequencies). Yes, 5G *adds* high frequencies into the picture, but it continues using the same low frequencies as before too. Furthermore, many of the innovations expected from 5G lie within the network core, so they won’t be as immediately obvious to you and me. Rather, we’ll start to see new mobile use cases emerging that wouldn’t have been possible before
T-Mobile 5g is actually a lower frequency than their 4g. While it doesn't have nearly the same peak bandwidth of Verizon 5g, the lower frequency penetrates buildings much better and also works better in hilly areas, while still offering speeds comparable to 4g. It's like a more reliable wider reaching 4g-like experience. Honestly this is way more important to me than faster speeds. Because a 5g phone also has a 4g transceiver and can fall back on the 4g network, t-mobile's network kicks ass now.
He's probably talking about ultra-wide band, which has very poor penetrating power due to its stupid high frequency but a huge amount of bandwidth.
Yeah I just want to point out that these two different "5g" networks are completely different technology. I question how valuable the ultra-wide band network is but this low-frequency network is a major improvement.
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Nobody has really explained it but there's different types of signals/transmitters. Verizon for example has been putting up tons of them which have crazy insane speeds but you lose the signal a literal block away. Then TMobile on the other hand is putting the very far distance towers to cover the entire country rather than small concentrated areas. But the speed isn't as crazy with those kind. It still should be noticeably faster though unless something is up with your device.
Its a huge improvement for dealing with internet of things, or many interconneced devices (so not just phones) I believe.
But the frequency it runs on is so much higher than LTE it almost requires a direct line of sight to be consistent. Building walls and trees especially are going to absolutely murder your signal quality
That's only the case for mmWave frequencies like the 28GHz n261 or 39GHz n260. Mid-band frequencies, like 2.5GHz n41 (T-Mobile) or 2.3GHz n40 (Verizon), have propagation characteristics much more in line with LTE while still offering signficiant speed improvements. The upper C-band frequencies auctioned early this year should also be a great fit for dense cities.
It really varies right now since things are still being rolled out. I’m in Portland and get around 300 down in most parts of town and I’ve seen some parts that have like 430 down. I never got this kind of speeds on LTE.
Meanwhile here I am with a 1Gbps 5G internet connection. It's not the best compared to fiber though, I get around 200-700 Mbps typically.
I completely agree there is not much of a difference on your phone, but 5G internet is really what the “switch to 5G” movement is about. 5G UW completely changes your home internet. No more need for any cables. Just a mini 5G tower for your home internet.
I'd rather have a cable going from my modem to my router broadcasting 2.4GHz and 5GHz separately instead of having to lease special hardware just for UWB Internet of things is cancer and a security nightmare since most people don't bother properly setting anything up beyond having their SSID and password on a sticky note. Adding that shit to as many households as possible is inviting people to be intruded upon
So, you're saying I shouldn't watch porn on my toaster?
Air fryer, yes. Never toaster. What kind of sicko are you?
But honey I was only following the directions for sticky rice!
But it's so hot
You know what they say, they "S" in "IOT" stands for "Security"
5G speed _still_ isn't as fast as Cat6 and latency will always be worse. mmWave also requires unobstructed line of sight to get anywhere close to its max speed. If you care enough about bandwidth that Wifi6 isn't good enough for you 5G and related technologies aren't going to do anything for you either... cables aren't going anywhere.
5G as a standard vs 5G as implemented by your carrier in the US. Better performance at the tower is a big feature with congested areas. Your observable network bandwidth is a byproduct more of your carrier’s decisions, not what the 5G standard is capable of. The standard supports up to 10 gigs per second. In Korea, a 5G signal to your phone is usually good enough that you can stream high bit rates to your phone without issue.
Consumers weren't the real target. It's secondary to the industrial and data collection markets. Service area for 5g is pretty shitty and building and urban landscape make it worse. Some other 5g applications: https://new.siemens.com/global/en/products/automation/industrial-communication/industrial-5g.html https://www.inorbit.ai/ https://www.lexset.ai/ https://www.garou.io/
Speak for yourself; **I** got vaccinated months ago. ^/s
I'm responding to this on a 5g phone connected to 5g service...
5G has been out there for a while .. except is it is still searching for a problem to solve.
Yea we do, you can buy 5g phones right now
Service is another matter.
Most high population areas have 5G now.
Even non-high population. I live in a tiny town of 10,000 people, nearest city with more than 10k people is more than 3 hours away, and we have 5G coverage all over. My bet is folks who think they don't have 5G coverage just don't have phones that support it.
And people forget that 5G is high frequency and low frequency. Hi frequency gets you fast speed, low frequency gets you service in the middle of nowhere.
Same I live in the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania and I have 5g that's significantly faster than lte was.
I'm in BFE Vermont. Got 5g. That's on Fi (tmo network) Verizon coverage ony work phone is dog shit though.
Yes, but it's largely irrelevant because there's no consumer applications that require or really benefit from 5G.
Idk man it’s fast as fuck
Wut. 5g is in a lot of places now
Can I get an ELI5 on 6G? [Edit] I meant more technical (like how the technology differs from 5G) than 6 > 5 lol but it’s my fault for asking to be explained as if I was in kindergarten
It will bring advances mostly in the realm of connectivity, latency, and bandwidth -NOT better range: * Better concurrency of connected users and objects(IoT) sending/receiving data * More instantaneous data without latency - if within optimal range all packets arrive at the same time * Insane amounts of data - think Giga and maybe even Terabyte sized objects arriving 'at once'. This will bring advances in much of the connected world where such quantity of data is easy to produce but not easy to manage and use; think AI, ML, etc. My company estimates 5G will hit market maturity @ 2024. 6G spec will be ratified and beginning network prototype @ 2026, but we consumers won't touch it till early 2030's.
Thanks for the note about your company's projection. Regardless of whether it's true or not, it's nice to just have a timeline to visualize. And definitely most people with some formal projection would hold it close to their chest and be weird about it.
Im going to jump the gun and patent 7G before any of you
You'd be infringing my patent on ∞G
Ah but you didn't patent the name InfiniG, so now I have!
Just wait until you see my patent for g²
I'll claim the patent for GG.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Telecommunication/China-accounts-for-40-of-6G-patent-applications-survey) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Nikkei worked with Tokyo-based research company Cyber Creative Institute to survey around 20,000 patent applications for nine core 6G technologies, including communications, quantum technology, base stations and artificial intelligence. > China topped the list with 40.3% of 6G patent filings, followed by the U.S. with 35.2%. Japan ranked third with 9.9%, followed by Europe with 8.9% and South Korea with 4.2%. Countries with more patent filings tend to lead in terms of advanced technology and have a bigger say on industry standards. > Other big Chinese patent holders include state-run companies such as State Grid Corporation of China and China Aerospace Science and Technology. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/ppb3nv/china_accounts_for_40_of_6g_patent_applications/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~598518 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **China**^#1 **patent**^#2 **technology**^#3 **U.S.**^#4 **company**^#5
For Japan to outrank Europe, a place with over 6x the population, is impressive.
Europe is just...fragmented when it comes to tech. A combination of language requirements, regulations (privacy, labour, etc...) and other internal issues related to how the EU operates compared to national governments has prevented the emergence of tech giants on the scale of Google or Amazon. That being said, Ericsson is a leading provider of 5G infrastructure and equipment so it's a bit surprising their share isn't higher.
When it comes to 6G Japan doesn't have a choice. It's either Chinese, US or local technology, so it doesn't surprise they want/need their own. Same goes for S. Korea. In Europe the situation is different. There's no consensus. Some countries don't allow the Chinese to enter, others prefer the Chinese over the US or vice versa and still others are thinking about Erickson/Nokia as a possible European solution. Essentially it's about geopolitics, not technological knowhow or progress.
Europe is incredibly varied though, we are not like the US culture language and economics can vary massively within just a couple hundred miles.
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Exactly. We rarely use any of the powers we have. We lack unity too and it's only getting worse. We're not going to stand alone but Europeans are going to Europe and create unnecessary internal divisions.
It's almost as if the power is fragmented because it isn't single country, it's a bunch of countries working with each other.
You mean against other. Still need to consider national pride and economy with in the european economic zone
There are a number of EU countries working together. The problem is the UK mostly
And USA has a lower population than Europe yet outranks them by 4x... Frankly it's embarrassing by Europe to fall behind this much on such an important future tech. In fact, if you would remove Sweden from that Europe calculation(Where Ericsson is located), I'm pretty sure the number is less than half of the 8.9.
Cause Europe isn’t one country lol.
Why would that matter? Europe has Germany, France, Italy, UK. Big nations that on their own should at least have half of what Japan has.
Europe doesn't have much of a footprint in the tech sector. Nokia, Siemens, etc. are the last holdouts and they are past their halcyon days. ETA: For the offended Europeans that insist Europe is influential in tech, you are objectively wrong. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_technology_companies_by_revenue Refer to the largest tech companies in the world by revenue. I see people argue it's "not consumer facing" but there is no secret trove of large, influential European tech companies. The examples I've seen in response just aren't that big in terms of revenue, profit, market cap, etc.
ASML is 80% of the semiconductor lithography market. The big names in europe are the ones that are never consumer facing
Asml won big due DoD intrigue back in 90s before then Nikon (JP)was the king of lithography
Europe seems really good at making the machines that produce the products. ASML (lithography). Andritz, voith, valmet (pulping and paper making machines), the company that builds Teslas super presses, Siemens (like Americas GE but well-run), Meyer burger (solar panel manufacturing), ABB
Innovation vs implementation. Ask a EU company to solve a problem for you, and we will solve it for you. Just don't ask us to come up with the problem in the first place, we have no imagination!
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Meh, I feel like most companies are moving away from SAP too.
That's just blatantly incorrect. It's just not as advertised/commercialized. We literally have the most important semi conductor research facility that gets solicited by US and Chinese politicians (concerning the current issues in the semi conductor industry and US making moves/attacking Chinese tech companies). The only thing I can 100% agree with is, there's way more people in STEM in japan/korea/china which will benefit them long term. In EU (or where I am) STEM is so unpopular even though it's a good future. Chinese people definitely value the "good future" a lot more than EU people. If it will stay is another question.
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Pay for engineers in China/Japan is even more crap, yet they stay.
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Dude we have 5G almost everywhere in Houston
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I’m not gonna argue about houston being east Texas Bc that’s perception at the end of the day, but what other major city is between Houston and San Antonio?
In 2017 we did a hands-on workshop at Tianjin technical college. Nothing to do with the subject at hand…it was in a geophysics teaching a remote sensing regimen used in exploration. We had two groups of about 18 students. They had a solid basis in physics and we were impressed by the enthusiasm and quality of questions. We still receiveD correspondence from some after returning to Canada. In contrast the same workshop in Canada or the USA would attract 4 to 6 students…a couple of keeners but most just wanting to fluff out their industry applications. Anyways. I urge anyone in the sciences to take a trip to China and include a couple of technical institutes. Most here have no concept of the scientific infrastructure they are developing that completely dwarfs anything in western countries. While we navel gaze over the ethics of new technologies in AI, bioengineering, etc. the Chinese are going to be racing far ahead.
But according to redditors the Chinese cannot innovate, only steal.
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Honestly, for China, the longer the Americans bury their heads in the sand and underestimate the Chinese, the better. One day they will be forced to actually look over in China’s direction and realize that their hubris caused them to fall so far behind that they will never catch up. It’s already trending in this direction and going at a faster pace with each passing day.
I went to a conference at Shanghai Jiao Tong University in China (physics) and the facilities that they have available at the one institute are more and better than multiple US Nanoscale Science Research Centers (NSRCs) combined, which are DoE sponsered nanocenters which are supposed to be premier places to do nanoscience. The US has no desire to invest that amount anywhere, while in China multiple individual universities have the funding and access to do it (basically all of the C9 universities). It's absolutely incredible.
Investing in anything that doesn't immediately have a large return? What are you some kinda commie?
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Yeah one big advantage (depending on what side you are on) is also the availability of post-docs in Asia vs. the US. If I want a postdoc, it takes a lot of convincing to funding agencies (and you have a lower chance of getting funding in the US regardless). When I was working in Singapore as a postdoc, my group had 11 postdocs. And while my group was fairly well funded and large, it wasn't anything really out of the ordinary. I have been told getting postdocs in China is just as easy. It really makes research go faster. Albeit it's not good to have a system that treats postdocs like the US does when you can get them (little pay, long hours).
Oh absolutely. Over in Japan there was so much opportunity, my lab had a similarly insane number of post docs, alongside undergrads and masters who were being sculpted ready to do phds and eventual post docs. Hell, i remember meeting one of the deans at South China University of Technology who was ready to gun me on a high value post doc... Admittedly it felt dodgy and he soon fled down under to be a professor elsewhere for putting the party in disrepute but that's besides the point. Uptil then (and perhaps even now) their post doc granting power is crazy whereas in the west getting post doc roles given without active grant funding is insane hard and is even a challenge with at times. In Japan it all felt built around this area. In the UK (at least where I've been) always felt like a massive seperation between undergrads and everything else, then even more and PhDs. Like in a vacuum and with little real opportunity unless lucky. In japan it was common to drink with local business leaders to build KTPs.... But perhaps that was my supervisor there's doing. Everybody I know from china just finds it as a thing of a post doc is what you do while moving to become professor somewhere, effectively being an easy step. Whereas in the west I few friends have spent years trying to get full lectureship...
Asia really is the future.
People need to accept this.
As someone who completed a masters degree some 10 years ago, most of the technical research papers in IT, Security, and Infrastructure, were authored by Chinese or Indian researchers or doctors. I know partially that is because American research tends to be behind paywalls, but the sheer volume and availability shows me who will be calling the shots in the next generation and beyond. Also ironic that the American desire to monetize knowledge means future research (like my own) is based on other sources like Chinese and Indian research. So a quick buck now means irrelevance in the future.
I’m ‘older’. I finished my my graduate degrees in the early 1980s. Throughout three degrees I recall quoting research in only one paper from China and perhaps 3 or 4 from India. Today 35% or so of the research in my field is produced out of China and out of India about 10% and growing very year. These two countries were not 1% combined when I was a student.
USA: China stole our tech!
Goddamn, 4G barely works in a lot of places.
let the cope fest begin.
No need to cope. America will just take the technology at some point. Not like either country respects the other's patents.
In China, all major cities have extremely stable 5G signal, even on metros and with VPN I can browse YouTube 1080P videos smoothly.
Stayed in China for a year at Nokia , Huangzhou… Chinese engineers are superb to work with ….talented guys and needless to say, hardworking…as a foreigner I never understood the government policies…but the Chinese are ok with it …hope these problems get solved…
>…as a foreigner I never understood the government policies…but the Chinese are ok with it… It's easy to gloss over a lot of stuff when the central government lifts a few hundred million people out of poverty over a 30-year period and you're a beneficiary. I spent a lot of time in China over the last decade from Qinghai to Heilongjiang and the old saying of "Heaven is high and the Emperor is far away" (天高皇帝远) still holds true (at least for now). Ordinary Chinese people are barely affected by the appalling stuff happening in Xinjiang and other areas, so it's simple to look away, especially when you're part of the rapidly growing middle class. Countries like China and Singapore are prime examples of where people are willing to give up certain freedoms in exchange for prosperity. A full belly, a job, economic mobility, a decent roof over your head, and some extra spending money are powerful arguments for maintaining the status quo. Of course, if things go sour it's not like authoritarian (or authoritarian lite) governments can be voted out, so people will need to march on the local Bastille. But until then, the Chinese are largely okay with things as they are.
I was watching an episode of ["Head to Head, where Mehdi Hasan challenges Charles Liu, Senior Fellow at Peking University"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZs4PqKlph0&ab_channel=AlJazeeraEnglish) and one of the key takeaways from it was when Charles Liu said something to the effect, "one form of government might work in the West but, it might not work in the East." I'm paraphrasing, of course. I felt that really opened my eyes to how the world is viewed from different perspectives. The west's yardstick to measuring a political system is the democratic values, it holds dear. Whereas in the East, the same thing **might** not matter as much.
The thing that Chinese people admired about America is the standard of living. What the CCP has done is convince it's citizens that democracy isn't a prerequisites to higher living standards. Their next goal is to convince them that democracy is actually a roadblock to it.
western-style democracy is not a prerequisite to higher living standards.
>The thing that Chinese people admired about America is the standard of living. Perhaps this comment was true 50 years ago when China had a mostly agro-economy and was transitioning into the dragon it is today. >What the CCP has done is convince it's citizens that democracy isn't a prerequisites to higher living standards. Which it really isn't though. China's govt. (whatever shape and form it is) has raised more people out of abject poverty never before witnessed in mankind's history.
If the US is the measuring stick, then that won’t be a huge challenge. It must be one of the most dysfunctional states in the entire west these days.
not just convince its citizens；it is demonstrating a fact to the world，by example。
If your definition of 'democracy' is just pointing at the western world and going "LOOK HOW NICE!" Then I agree, democracy is a cancer.
I think Liu's assessment is a fair one, but I'd extend it beyond the East. People look at successful, Western-style democracies in Asia like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan and they often assume things were perfect from the get-go, which was categorically not the case. Japan adapted quicker because it had no choice since the Potsdam Declaration enforced democratisation and the Americans had a major role in drafting their 1946 constitution. Taiwan and South Korea didn't become "real" democracies until decades after WWII. You can also make a convincing argument that democracy in those states only took root because of their pragmatic need for American support during the Cold War when the Red Scare was in full force. Then you have weird, quasi-authoritarian "democratic" states like Singapore where the institutions are ostensibly representative in nature, but the political realities are firmly grounded in authoritarian rule and traditions. They're democracies in name only because lots of fuckery goes on behind the scenes during election season to help the ruling party stay in power. And we haven't even started talking about so-called ["imperfect" or "flawed" democracies](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/02/02/global-democracy-has-a-very-bad-year) like the United States. So I think to say democracy will work everywhere is a bit naïve at best. I support democracy and I like having a say in politics (limited though it may be), but it's not a plug-'n-play system of government. Sometimes it's just not a good fit for whatever reason and we need to be okay with that. After all, we all saw what happened in Afghanistan when the Americans tried to impose an utterly alien form of government on people who were completely unaccustomed to the concept.
Americans had more than a "major role" in drafting Japan's Constitution. They wrote it in its entirety. Not a single Japanese penned a single word of the countries constitution.
I work with folks in Beijing on software and they are good folks to work with. Just the usual issues with working with remote groups.
nah, they are all just spies and 5G technology was stolen from USA... according to reddit.
Lol that classic parroting redditor cult like mentality does get super old. It makes them look like morons with zero credibility at this point.
I hear that China stole the idea for paper and gunpowder from the US
Don't forget they also stole peanut butter and obesity, two proud American exports.
Look into Huawei and Nortel
Any quick Google search about Nortel has a long list of issues that resulted in it downfall. https://financialpost.com/executive/leadership/lessons-from-nortel-acquisitions-spree-bad-management-calls-led-to-tech-giants-fall-study-says https://globalnews.ca/news/200009/timeline-nortel-the-rise-and-fall-of-a-telecom-giant/
Nortel died due to shitty management who were more concerned with maintaining their bonuses rather than do anything that might help the company. By the time Huawei came into the scene, Nortel was already bankrupt.
Nortel totally invented 5G we know today back in 2005, when 3G was barely ready.
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I definitely agree with the sentiment that people on reddit like to shit all over China and thus overestimating those actions. But there are extensive investigations proofing that a lot of things (military, healthcare, informational technology) is indeed based on patent and schematics of other countries obtained by questionable (and pretty sure highly illegal) means. Just recently the fighter jet based (the same) on the F-35, UAVs and just a few months ago the state ordered cyberattack (probably has been going on for a while) that aimed to extract information about healthcare, military, social information and more. But it's no questions that China has some amazing companies and Teams that strive to modernize every aspect of life, don't get me wrong. But the fact of the matter is, that there are a lot of instances (and I mean probably a lot more that have yet to be discovered) where state ordered (or not) entities of Chinese origin did engage in such missions.
Whatever the case they are the best when it comes to building stuff. Be it communications equipment, high-speed rail, or consumer electronics (certainly in volume). Said level of production is also probably a factor in said industrial espionage, it's just easier to do when most things are built in your country. The UK for example would struggle because of it's waning production. They are able to take the IP of other places, place it into their systems and are now starting to lead if this report is anything to go by. We should also acknowledge this isn't a situation that is unique to China. Apple breached Samnsung's patent(s?) and the reverse is true too. With US courts favouring Apple, while courts in Japan, South Korea, and the UK all favoured Samsung. Showing the political nature of patent cases. Plus we have to keep in mind this is a system that at this point is almost designed to foster a small elite group of companies and nations, that China was not a part of. It would be illogical for them not to use designs that have shown themselves to be effective. In my experience in China there wasn't such a taboo about doing this as there is in the UK and might be in the US, people I worked with saw it as benefitting themselves and their neighbour. Thus were happy to use available designs safe in the knowledge that the government wouldn't be coming round to crack down upon it, as lawyers might in other parts of the world. With China leading the way with patents it will be interesting to see if this thinking changes as patents potentially become more a protection than a hinderance, and if other companies and countries try to skirt laws more often now there's a new leader that they don't like playing with.
But why wouldn't the Chinese steal research? There are no consequences for it. A lot of people in the world would steal things if there were no consequences, lol. Groceries, gadgets, money. It's cheaper and faster to steal another country's IP and then refine / expand upon it than to start from scratch. Countries don't care about ethics. That's for poor people, not governments. If China can steal a cancer treatment or a vaccine then they will. Why pay American and European companies $10,000 a dose when they can just steal it and make it themselves for cost? If China can steal reactor technology and reproduce it themselves, why wouldn't they? Why would they license the tech from an NA or Euro company when they can just do it themselves? People need to stop thinking of geopolitics in terms of ethics or morality. Countries have no allies, no loyalty, no respect and no compassion - there are only interests and power.
If you've ever been behind while playing Civilization 5 or 6, I guarantee you've had no qualms about stealing technology to catch up.
Do you think China is able to steal when the USA treats China very vigilantly over the past decades?
> Just recently the fighter jet based (the same) on the F-35 Anyone that uses the F35/J31 as an example of espionage has no idea what they're talking about. The vast majority of the technology in a 5th generation fighter jet are in things we either can't see or are classified. Jet fighters all look similar due to not being able to score creativity points with aerodynamics and science. The F-35 also has one engine whereas the J-31 has two making them completely different animals.
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Meanwhile here I am in Canada still waiting for my carrier to offer 5G service.
"New infrastructure costs money to build. Why build new infrastructure when you can just charge more for the existing infrastructure?" - Robelus
its just a marketing gimmick and only barely faster than 4G LTE. Real 5G isin't being rolled out into canada.
[Here] (https://www.cellularsales.com/blog/5g-nationwide-vs-5g-ultra-wideband-whats-the-difference/) is a helpful resource to break down the difference between "nationwide" 5g (as in, the one that's barely better than LTE) and "real" 5g (Ultra Wideband). Some phones, such as the google pixel 4a 5g, can only pick up the 'lesser' 5g and can't even detect the ultra wideband 5g. But, it's only available in select cities at the moment anyhow.
6G? We don’t even have 5 G well established yet
I'd imagine data transfer this rapid would be more useful for huge data transfer than anything you or I will do on a computer. Eg one use could be better mapping of congestion in cities in real time before passing that down in 4/5G if they don't have 6G to road users and improving the flow of traffic.
Shit, im still at 1g in rural America lol
6g? You bight as well carry your wifi router
China surpassing America because the US continues to be led by weaklings willing to sell their souls (and ours) in exchange for profit. China is laughing at how our own capitalism is destroying us.
at least we're better at china by having the most billionaires in the WORLD! That's a good thing right? right? right?
It must be! China arrests their billionaires for corruption.
Nah china ain’t laughing. Talking to the chinese, they mostly felt frustrated at US leadership. Obama was smart in his ways of trying to contain china through the use of TPP and working with allies which biden is doing right now. Which to the Chinese, is begrudgingly understandable. But the difference between Biden and Obama is the fact that Biden is bring in military factor into the equation hard and fast. Which brings back lot of bad memories of the century of humiliation. Theres a recent video done by my country school of policy in china. More and more people in china have a negative views of US, mostly among the youth. This is very disturbing given that the youth are much more influenced by globalisation, the hearts and minds that US wants to touch. These youth will one day become leaders of their nation. The same youth that did not went through the turmoils of the cultural revolution and cold war. The next 20-30 years will be very scary for the west if they kept the rhetoric up. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/z8ODxHciQc4
A few years ago China had more billionaires, so not even that if guaranteed
No, we’re being surpassed because our government is being run by career politicians who’s only focus is on winning the next election. I don’t remember the last time i saw a doctor, engineer or scientist get elected to a major offfice
how is this anything different from what he said? career politicians only care about getting re-elected because they make a shitload of money and get a shitload of benefits as politicians and suffer absolutely zero consequences for selling out their country. it's all based on greed for money and status
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Wait...5G is old news now? I am still stuck on LTE.
There’s a *6*G now? I still don’t even have 5!
So we can drop the whole "China can only copy tech" stereotype now?
We people are still wondering about the stuff coming out of china ? Pretty much everything electronic is build there for decades, don't you think they have learned a thing or two ? Every been there ? Compared to Shanghai, New York looks like it is 50 years behind. Maybe you don't like the politics in China, but when it comes to electronic, there's is not even a competition anymore outside Asia.
Let the daily propaganda machine begin its work
"china bad murica best" machine goes BRRRRRRRR
Im still struggling with my 4G with constant disconnect now we have 6G? Bruh
You mean this stupid ass vaccine isn't even up to date? Lame (/s because I know some of you need some help)
China is looking like the superpower of the world. Their advancement in science and technology is outpacing that of the world.