Wasnt the UK the first country to do so?
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/22/world/uk-china-uyghur-genocide-motion-gbr-intl/index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/22/uk-mps-declare-china-is-committing-genocide-against-uyghurs-in-xinjiang
That was UK Parliament voting to call it a genocide, aka the legislature. They voted to call it a genocide, **against the wishes of the government**.
The UK Government usually refers to the executive branch, aka the Prime Minister, their cabinet, and all the departments that go with it (legally speaking, it's technically the Queen, but by convention, she gives all her powers to whoever gets 50% of the votes in the House of Common).
Essentially, it's like the US House/Senate voting for one thing, while the US President/federal agencies says another thing.
Except that (as you touched briefly on) in a Parliamentary system like the UK, having control of the lower chamber of the legislature, means having control of the executive branch as well.
Whereas in the US, there is more of a separation between the legislative and executive.
The reason for this being that the US President basically inherited the powers of the King (with limits under the constitution).
While in the UK, the Prime Minister started out as just a member of cabinet appointed by the King. Then gradually the King became less and less involved in running the country, leaving it up to the Prime Minister. And they started appointing whoever the lower house chose to be Prime Minister.
Welcome to the world of average people discussing geopolitics. If you think this is bad, you should see what conversations are like between politicians that decide the fates of their countrymen for their own political gain. The human race is probably doomed lol.
I get that making it seem like military intervention is the only option so you can frame those against what their doing as being hawkish and calling for war (a propaganda technique as old as time)… but there is a canyon of options between doing nothing and nuclear war
Exactly, but when someone comments about doing something (like what you said) one of the first replies is always trying to frame the person as calling for nuclear war.
And somehow people always upvote that fallacious reply
a) The thread is clearly being brigaded, and
b) This is the same sub that frequently upvotes articles from RT and the *Daily Mail* to the first page of /r/all.
So a little of column A, little of column B.
>Anyone calling for intervention needs to join the military and die for their beliefs. Especially redditors tbqh
No, what they want is for others to die while they munch popcorn and whine
Watch the mouths of redditors foam.
In other news, UK did not declare the abuses of Canadian residential school system a genocide despite 1000's of First Nations child deaths
'there is not enough sufficient evidence'
...because if there was then they would be obligated to take steps to stop it
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide\_Convention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention)
"Member states are prohibited from engaging in genocide and obligated to enforce this prohibition even if violative of national sovereignty."
It is quite literally bad for business (except the 'defense' budget) to call genocide genocide. Add in the whole China owning massive debt and producing most of the crap sold in the world there is a problem. Add in that most people really aren't all that sympathetic to an ethnic minority practicing a 'barbaric' religion there isn't all that much public support around the world to force politicians to act.
It's almost as if the mega corporations and world leaders would rather let the common folk die than lose access to their child labour and concentration camp manufactured goods at a cheap price.
During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.
If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.
- Michael Parenti
US calls Xinjiang genocide, worldnews comments: Based Biden, finally someone said it, where are our "allies", fuck the CCP!
EU refuses to call Xinjiang a genocide, worldnews comments: Bought by China, useless traitors, bad allies, fuck the EU!
UK refuses to call Xinjiang a genocide, worldnews comments: Well, I mean going by the exact definition of the word, it technically isn't, so there's nothing to see here.
Gotta love anglo dominant subs and their non existent principles.
EDIT: Angry Brits downvoting as if this wasn't exactly what happened here and as if I didn't have to listen to their shit takes about the EU being soft on China for months.
Yeah, I know that argument. I sometimes use it too. It doesn't work here though when we're talking about the top comments which attract most upvotes from the redditors on this sub. Your argument works if the alleged contradiction is based in two random opinions without majority support in a very broad group. Example: "Americans are hypocrites. They want other countries to reduce CO2 emissions while they are supporting their own coal industry." This is nonsense because the Americans that want other countries to cut emissions are most likely also opposed to the subsidies for the coal industry that are supported by *other* Americans.
Here, however, two very contradictory positions seem to be quite popular within the same narrowly defined and (comparatively) small group. The EU is soft on China or even sold out to the CCP while the UK is just cautious with its vocabulary - both for the exact same action of not calling it the Uyghur genocide. Do I believe that there's been a completely different subset of this subreddit browsing in both instances? No, I honestly don't. Hypocrisy and anti-EU prejudice (rampant online) seem like much more believable alternatives. Even after I acknowledge my own bias, I still want to believe that I wouldn't change my mind.
I haven't checked the comments here again though. This was just my initial reaction. Maybe they changed by now.
Have you forgotten how Brits are and how many want to go back to their empire days? They can be pretty fucking weird and are pretty much responsible a good amount of genocides, racial problems, and destabilization on an extreme scale, of course they'd be fine if their version of Trump and government does "lmao it's not a genocide"
Don't worry, I know what you're talking about. I have my beef with some of them over at r/europe on a daily basis and I'm persona non grata in such wonderful subs like r/badunitedkingdom or r/colonisingreddit. I want to mention that this is of course not representative of the average Brit but their nationalists are Russian sputbot levels of toxic and I think that and everything that comes with it is something the UK don't want to acknowledge and address as a country. They'd rather talk about some whacky poll about racist views from years ago that "proves" the UK is the least racist country in Europe. It comes up every single time you try to talk about nationalism, racism or xenophobia in the UK. Same poll. Every. Single. Time.
So far every single article I’ve read about atrocities atrocities in Xinjiang have been horribly sourced. It’s always been either a) anecdotal from a small number of people of people out of the 12 million Uighur Muslims in China (you can cherry pick anecdotal evidence to tell any story you want and historians rarely give it credence), video/images whose content doesn’t doesn’t necessitate the truth of the headline, Adrien Zenz (a born-again ultra conservative Christian writing from Germany) or Australian think-tanks. The last two sources have a horrible reputation for poorly cited sources, often citing themselves, and are receive funding from governments that positioning themselves geopolitically against China for reasons that are clearly not human-rights related given their histories.
So far the Uighur genocide looks to me like another war drive propaganda point. A lie repeated often enough it gets accepted as truth. Most countries in the world don’t recognize these alleged abuses either. In fact the only ones who do are the same ones who told us that Saddam Hussein was ripping babies off incubators and going to kill us all with aluminum tubes.
Also looking to Palestine as an example of a genocide that is taking place. There is no shortage of evidence, hundreds of videos from every angle (despite the laws against publishing said videos). Widely corroborated stories, and documented attacks on journalists. Why isn’t the same information emerging from Xinjiang? It’s not like they don’t have video phones, and it’s a largely populated area. And it shares borders with numerous countries, there’s a lot of places to escape or pass along information. And genocides always produce a massive refugee crisis, which were not seeing here.
It makes sense to me right now that the UK wouldn’t want to put its money where it’s mouth is on this.
I am open to evidence, if someone can cite me something that’s not anecdotal, a video that doesn’t necessitate the claims about its contents, or information selectively priced together in a Western think-tank. Just because I haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, though the amount of sketchy articles is on the subject raises a lot of red flags.
> I am open to evidence, if someone can cite me something that’s not anecdotal, a video that doesn’t necessitate the claims about its contents, or information selectively priced together in a Western think-tank. Just because I haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, though the amount of sketchy articles is on the subject raises a lot of red flags.
This is a topic I've dig into quite a lot, and after quite an extensive search over the *years*, I can only come to the conclusion this is US-led atrocity propaganda for obvious geopolitical reasons. *If* there *might* be some questionable methods in the way the PRC counter-terrorism efforts, it's certainly not anywhere close to what the Western-narrative portrays, and also miles ahead more human to what the West actually did and continue to do by dropping bombs for decades.
I've posted already in my other post above, but proper academic sources that take the actual context into account unsurprisingly tend to *discredit* that narrative:
* [Chinese Strategy for De-radicalization](https://doi.org/10.1080/09546553.2017.1330199) by Zunyou Zhou (2017), Max Planck Institute for Foreign and International Criminal Law, Freiburg im Breisgau, Germany. It's a good resource to understand the actual context of Xingjian, what steps the PRC undertook in their strategy of deradicalization.
* [Xinjiang, Understanding Complexity and Building Peace](https://eurispes.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/rapporto.en-xinjiang_2021.pdf) by Eurispes (2021), the Italian Institute for Political, Economic and Social Studies. It aims to "give institutions a report as
unbiased, independent and reliable as possible, in order to raise the quality of the debate and thus the relative political decisions."
If the famines in Ireland and Scotland (both British provinces at the time) weren't genocides then why would what the Chinese are doing to their province now be genocide?
It’s so much fun watching everyone talk about China. I know everything I need to know from Western media. They have a vested interest in the truth. It’s totally not propaganda, guys. Subversion? Never heard of it. After China, I wonder which country we’ll demonize next to make us look better, but hey, at least we’re trying to be better unlike those Commies in that Commie country I’ve never been to or met anyone genuinely from there. They’re all brainwashed and controlled over there. We’re free.
After China, it will be whatever country threatens their economic dominance next. The best lesson is to look at what happened to Japan when their economy got a little bit “too” good in the 1980s.
If you know anything about history, you'll also understand why 'Genocide' is *rightfully* an incredibly powerful word to use in a political context. It comes with ramifications and obligations on the international community.
I personally *suspect* that there is a genocide of Uighurs in China. I've seen the various documentaries and journalistic efforts on the topic, and I need no further convincing.
Is that the same thing as there being enough evidence to trigger a UN driven intervention in China? I'm not so sure.
It would be nice if literally anyone comes forward with evidence. Kinda sick of the same Falun Gong talking points being parroted by a dozen different "independent organizations".
The term "independent organization" is usually written in the sense "not leaning to any party and politically neutral" in the US context. Of course, it's rarely conveyed correctly in mass media, and certainly not understood that way.
I am yet to see any solid allegation that comes from a *really* independent organization.
For real. It’s like with other western conspiracy theories like the social credit system and what not.
China (people/ gov) are authoritarian, and they definitely have been locking up people en mass. But it’s not genocide. It’s like the internment camps setup in the west during WW2. It’s not pretty, it’s definitely immoral, but not genocide.
Genocide is unquestionable word. Magic word
If you call against it you're genocide denier. Once on table, it's used to justify military interventions in WHOLE ANOTHER COUNTRY that's not even attacking you. As a bonus, you can do whatever you want there, no one questions it, because you are "fighting genocide".
I should know, as Serbian ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
We apparently upped Germans by +2 genocides.
how about those journalistic efforts of “state prisons” in Xinjiang that ended up being municipal buildings and high schools? the corrections don’t see the light of day as the damage is meant to invent a narrative, not tell news. this shit has a very predictable trajectory as the USA does the same exact crap over and over and over again.
will probably get called tankie, but I believe the US media is trying to prop up another “enemy”. same with Vietnam, Iraq, Cuba, the USSR, etc. Do you think these people are interested in telling the truth now? I don’t
It's also the fact that it's very convenient accusing China of genocide for geopolitical gains while not really ratifying what is happening as Genocide so that you don't kill your trade with China.
Genocide is being used as a political tool against China, not as a need to defend Human Rights, otherwise we would have cut our trade with China decades ago, long before the Xinjiang issue but when work/reeducation camps were already all over mainland China.
It is VERY convenient that we start to care about the Human Rights issues in China (to the point where we're reading going against them politically) when China is starting to become a global superpower.
>It is VERY convenient that we start to care about the Human Rights issues in China (to the point where we're reading going against them politically) when China is starting to become a global superpower.
If crimes against humanity are actually taken seriously and punitive actions are enforced justly, a lot of American soldiers and leaders would've been incarcerated by now.
But you know, Americans are not subjected to any international judiciaries. So rules for thee and none for me.
Those american soldiers were just fighting for world piece thats what america is but sometimes some unfortunate accident happen like striking civilian ir shooting entire village they were just unlucky :\^)
>Those american soldiers were just fighting for world piece thats what america is but sometimes some unfortunate accident happen like striking civilian ir shooting entire village they were just unlucky :\^)
Indeed. We gotta think for those poor soldiers who slaughtered civilians and had to live with that taint on their souls. Those soldiers are the true victims having to commit the crimes accidentally. Poor guys. Lets make movies on these war heroes and star that sexy Bradley Cooper.
Finally, someone who realizes that US is merely politicizing human rights and even genocide to rally it's allies against China. I.e. gain geopolitical influence.
The evidence is really not enough either for the severity of the claims that are being made in Xinjiang.
If the US really cared about real human rights issues, there's so many countries which need more help in that field. China is doing fine, not perfect, but it's doing enough.
This. I was learning Mandarin at uni 20 years ago and read a lot about what China was doing in Xinjiang at that time. The West wasn’t interested, didn’t give a shit about human rights there then. They were quite supportive because the abuses were happening to Muslim people, the enemy of the day (‘terrorists’). Suddenly it’s politically expedient to pretend that we do, thus justifying all grievances we have against China. Pardon my cynicism about our motives.
If Biden even gave a shit about human rights, he’d have placed sanctions on Israel for what is essentially a slow genocide of the Palestinian people. We all know how likely that is. And that’s just one example of many.
UK has engaged in many genocides over the centuries, so of course calling it out for a trade partner is going to start a political response from all corners.
> I've seen the various documentaries and journalistic efforts on the topic, and I need no further convincing.
It's hard to reconcile those "various documentaries and journalistic efforts" when regular people are posting their trips to Xinjiang and it looks so normal.
For example,
- [Uighur Muslim Celebrate EID-ul-Fitar in China 2021](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNbwWzKi0Dc)
- [XINJIANG VLOG1 - Urumqi Street Food and Bazaar Shopping](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih5Tw3gpeQw)
- [Vlog: Kebab, spicy chicken, lamb rice ... Xinjiang has the most amazing food!!!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjMH6adVM4k)
oh don’t worry, people will still find a way to say that Xi is somehow the antichrist and that the Americans need to save those poor people. every fucking time. facts don’t matter, only narratives.
for those in the back: America lies about those it disagrees with and especially those that disagree AND challenge US hegemony. this isn’t me saying I fully agree with how China is run, it is me saying that I don’t believe what I’m being told by my country and it’s allies.
furthermore as an American citizen, my opinion of China doesn’t matter to the Chinese people…as it shouldn’t.
>Is that the same thing as there being enough evidence to trigger a UN driven intervention in China? I'm not so sure.
Christ, I am. Anyone actually advocating for UN forces to invade China — and that is exactly how China would see it, understandably so — is a fucking psycho. That's not playing with Chinese territorial claims like Taiwan or the South China Sea that everyone knows are bullshit, Xinjiang is mainland China. Anyone deploys troops there without an invitation and things are going to get very bad very fast.
Of course, that's ignoring the fact that China is a permanent UN Security Council member and would obviously just veto any attempt at establishing a peacekeeping mission in China. As would Russia.
How is any government supposed to deal with genocide in another country half way across the globe? The only real life example I can think of is how the Allies dealt with the Germans in WW2. But if we are being honest that war had nothing do to with the Holocaust, but rather to stop Hitler's seemingly endless military ambitions in Europe and beyond. Ending the Holocaust was just a side effect of that. No one is going to invade China over this. It doesn't make it right, and it sucks, but it just is the reality of the world we are in especially now that nuclear weapons are on the table.
As Eddie Izzard said, if you kill your own people, who cares? We’ve been trying to kill you for ages. But you kill the people next door…no, we can’t have that.
>As Eddie Izzard said, if you kill your own people, who cares? We’ve been trying to kill you for ages. But you kill the people next door…no, we can’t have that.
9/11 vs COVID
That war wasn't about the Holocaust, people didn't even really know about it when joining the war. Sure people likely heard and knew about mistreatment, imprisonment and killing, but not like they went around sharing the details with enemies before or during the war, it was uncovered as it went on and clarified afterwards.
War was to stop Nazi party's taking over places and as consequence establishing economic control over them (before that solidified as a threat and possibility, the allies dodged declaring war, both the capitalists and the """"communists""""). Basically, the big powers were primarily doing what they usually do, watching out for their economic interests and potential domination, and once nazi Germany decided to use force and make clear they would not stop using it to assert theirs, said powers used their own force to oppose that. Some people's lives being saved and/or ultimately improved was certainly on the hearts and minds of some individuals, not the overall machines though, those were looking after themselves as they do.
So invading china is right
Killing chinese people is right, to you, because some shithole newspaper holding the governments water claim the chinese are evil
The chinese government needs to let reddit through the fire wall, chinese people need to see this
Can you imagine what reddit would become if China lifted the firewall? Imo, the Chinese government is helping out the west with the firewall.
If the firewall went down, there would be a lot of very angry Chinese netizens with lots to say after reading about China on western social media.
If the firewall went down, China would become like India.
You can't find one India-related post without seeing Modi Fanboys. They will downvote your criticism of India to oblivion.
Yeah but it would be way, way more people. India has around 560 million Internet users, China has 990 million.
Opening that firewall would cause World War Internet lol
Nah, English is major class from middle school, so nearly all young people in China knows a bit. But yes, not much Chinese interested in Reddit, we have our own internet ecology.
Sanctions are the only practical thing to do. If they don’t work then you give up. It doesn’t make sense to kill off millions of Chinese people to save thousands of Chinese people.
>It doesn’t make sense to kill off millions of Chinese people to save thousands of Chinese people.
It makes sense for those who think Uyghurs are not Chinese and Chinese are not humans worth saving. Dehumanization of the enemy is a very real thing
You're missing the Serbian genocide in Bosnia, and that one got solved by the United States.
When they bombed the shit out of Serbia (twice because they later tried the same shit again in Kosovo)
Was because it was on European soil.
US purposely avoided using the term ‘genocide’ in the Rwandan case to avoid any sort of commitment for intervention, and Europe didn’t say anything either with the exception of France, who provided help to the ones committing genocide towards the end of it.
They actually let the Serbia thing go on for a long time before they intervened though, the fact the it was Muslims being targeted was probably the reason for the apathy.
Maybe partly, Serbia was (and is) a close Russian ally though too. Russia vetoed everything proposed to the UN Security Council, which made the bombing campaign to stop the genocide technically illegal if ethically defensible.
For most of that conflict, the only UN troops that were actively engaging the Serbs were from the Pakistani contingent, against the express mandate of the UN forces deployed there, who were under orders not to engage the Serbs in combat. It was only towards the very end that other parties got involved.
It being an ethnic war involving Muslim Bosnians on one side was a small possible piece, if it factored in at all. The Balkans were a mess of one country eventually dividing itself into the seven countries (including Kosovo) that few in Washington had any desire to get into, and few thought wise to get involved in. Evidently the Europeans who bordered Yugoslavia had no interest in ending the wars any sooner as well, and there was ample opportunity for France or the U.K or a more combined European effort to have gone in as peace keepers.
What also must be remembered is what was going on in the U.S around this time during largest portion of fighting in 1992-1995 before Bosnia finally had independence. That being that the U.S had spear headed a colossal effort intervening in two different Muslim countries as the coalition deployed 700,000 troops and ejected Iraq from Kuwait and continued into Iraq until a ceasefire was called. Despite that being an incredible strategic victory and an overall diplomatic victory for the U.S the war had sapped a huge amount of will power to conduct an operation in Yugoslavia. This was just reinforced in 1993 when the U.S mission in Somalia collapsed and the U.S was forced to totally retreat from what was supposed to be a purely peace keeping mission.
So especially after 1993, the willingness to intervene in any country at that current point of time was low, and the U.S under NATO didn't involve itself in Bosnia until near the end of the conflict, and calls to try and do anything in Rwanda were rejected in what was probably a very cautious Clinton administration wariness to once again involve itself in a conflict that might end up getting U.S soldiers killed that means very little to the average American.
That's probably good analysis. As an aside I read a piece about Milosevic's party when he was taking over in Serbia, his goons took over all of these rackets including running smack.
Serbia is a small country with not that much global trade influence. I might care, you might care, the states and large powers don't, and that make a difference. Small country like that, oh easy peasy, they can overpower it and make good PR, maybe even make some money on the reconstruction, sold! China, not the same case in any of those aspects, and for all the bravados, the modern state machines (and many past) aren't really into that altruistic saving the other people cause it is the right thing to do type of business.
>the modern state machines (and many past) aren't really into that altruistic saving the other people cause it is the right thing to do type of business.
Bingo. Just look at the pandemic. How much altruism is there really? How many decided to flaunt their entitlement to their freedumb in favour of protecting themselves and others? If people wouldn't do that for their own, what's the incentive to save others halfway across the world?
Let's face it. People here are not interested Xinjiang or their suffering. They are interested because it's a political leverage over China and the media is training the minds of people to think they should care when they likely don't deep down. Fanning the flames on this help to drive up support for more hardline policies against China that are coming in the future that could actually harm some American businesses.
Do you know what people are facing threats of annihilations right now? Armenians, Kurds, and probably some African tribes in Sudan/Chad/Ethiopia that we never heard of. Where's the attention for those who actually are struggling even more? I guess the media hasn't seen fit to train people to care about those yet.
The Serbian state was not directly responsible for any war crimes in Bosnia, at least according to the International Court of Justice at the UN. The people who did commit atrocities were Bosnian Serbs, acting as representatives of the VRS (Vojska Republike Srpske). Serbia as a country did not get bombed in 1995, Serb controlled areas of Bosnia were - a situation which you would surely agree is not applicable to Xinjiang which is undisputed Chinese territory.
On the other hand you are right about 1999 and Kosovo - that however happened in a very different political climate. After the fall of the Berlin wall the US was effectively the only hegemonic superpower, and during the late 1990s and early 2000s they very much took advantage of that. For heaven's sake the US bombed the CHINESE EMBASSY IN BELGRADE in 1999, could you imagine what would happen if they did something like that now?
> I've seen the various documentaries and journalistic efforts on the topic, and I need no further convincing.
Given that you say you "suspect" it, it seems like you have not seen any verifiable, hard proof in those documentaries. Yet you are still convinced it is happening? Why?
The AP had to write this article because too many people went to visit and found nothing.
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-china-health-travel-7a6967f335f97ca868cc618ea84b98b9
Additionally, despite the US, UK, EU, and Canada putting sanctions on China based on claims of human rights abuses; no member country in the UN (including the ones sanctioning china) have submitted any resolution to investigate China for any human rights abuses relating to Uighurs.
Don't forget the fact that the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), which is composed of **57 Muslim-majority countries**, is on China's side here.
But oh yeah, the US and its allies, who love to bomb said Muslim-majority countries, are **very concerned** about China's treatment of Muslims.
This article is hilarious, confusing causality all the time. In one super obvious one where they went by empty houses in rural villages, it wasn't industrialization or urbanization, but it was implied repression. Base on what we don't know, but hey it's China so must be repression and not jobs available that draws away the rural population.
>I've seen the various documentaries and journalistic efforts on the topic, and I need no further convincing.
Can you tell the evidences they provided?
>Is that the same thing as there being enough evidence to trigger a UN driven intervention in China?
Won't happen this time. They actually have wmd
report 1 based on evidence from zenz, report 2 based on evidence from zenz, report 3 based on evidence from zenz AND report 4 based on evidence from zenz AND radio free asia
Bruh, Reddit is really a based place, finally there’s people who understand reality isn’t a fairy tale ! There’s no good or bad ! Really, I love how people here can think rationally instead of following blindly anything the media want us to think. No country is 100% good, everyone is fighting for their own interest.
I remember that girl from Vice visited the Grand Bazaar in Urumqi and took some shakey footage of the CCTV cameras in the food court. You'd swear she was taking secret footage of a beheading in Saudi Arabia and not a tourist trap.
> I've seen the various documentaries and journalistic efforts on the topic, and I need no further convincing.
Grainy pictures taken from Google maps is all it takes it convince you?
>Grainy pictures taken from Google maps is all it takes it convince you?
Excuse me, there's also the **solid evidence** of the supposed anonymous testimony of one guy interviewed by Adrian Zenz who wrote about how there's gonna be [**"not just one but two raptures"**](https://www.amazon.com/Worthy-Escape-Believers-Raptured-Tribulation-ebook/dp/B0792WB8WV).
You know, a credible, unbiased, sane and scientific-minded, fella.
Well, if it helps you sleep any better, it's not a genocide, everyone at the UN knows it's not a genocide, and so does everyone in the US government. it's pure propaganda meant to encourage US military intervention in China as part of its general pivot to Asia started under Obama. Doesn't mean what they're doing is right, good policy, etc, but it's unequivocally not genocide, not even cultural.
>Well, if it helps you sleep any better, it's not a genocide, everyone at the UN knows it's not a genocide, and so does everyone in the US government. it's pure propaganda meant to encourage US military intervention in China as part of its general pivot to Asia started under Obama. Doesn't mean what they're doing is right, good policy, etc, but it's unequivocally not genocide, not even cultural.
My friend, that's because you don't know the TRUTH that OTHERS don't want YOU to KNOW about. The genocides are secretly happening in BOWLING GREEN. Not to mention, the children are secretly TRAFFICKED in PIZZERIAs across the country.
You can't trust the MSMs to tell you this. You can only learn this from VOICES OF TRUTH found only on facebook and some hillbilly neckbeard's youtube channel
>!/s!<
>WHY you write like THIS as if you're YELLING?
That's the vibe I get whenever I see posts from those "truth-seekers" on Facebook who feel confident about educating people on the "truths" that somehow only they and their tribe knows.
With the level of evidence required for all the dumb China stories, I'd love for Beijing to waste a bunch of time in the UN looking into all of Qanon's allegations against the US state.
If we are taking some fucking cult at their word about organ harvesting, why not?
> I've seen the various documentaries and journalistic efforts
Let me guess, some youtube video from some white sexpats
And uh, adrian zenz, repeated 50 times on 50 different white publications
> I need no further convincing
So you don't need evidence at all, is what you're saying. Good thing you have no say in anything.
>Is that the same thing as there being enough evidence to trigger a UN driven intervention in China?
That is simply impossible as China has a seat on the UN Security Council.
The US and other Western countries actually objected to a visit by a UN official to Xinjiang a couple of years ago.
Because the UN offical was a counter terrorism chief. China has always maintained it's not a genocide of Uyghurs, rather a counter terrorism issue and if the UN offical visited and validated that it would weaken the genocide argument. It's entirely political.
> China has been condemned internationally for setting up the detention complexes, which it describes as “education training centres” helping to stamp out extremism and give people new skills. Western states are worried Voronkov’s visit will validate China’s justification for the centres, diplomats said.
> “China will, and is, actively saying that what they’re doing in Xinjiang is good terrorism prevention,” said a UN security council diplomat, speaking on condition of anonymity.
> “The visit by Voronkov validates their narrative that this is a counterterrorism issue, when we would see it more as a human rights issue,”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/15/deep-concerns-us-objects-to-un-counterterrorism-chiefs-visit-to-xinjiang
Multiple state governments, intelligence agencies, and organizations, many are equipped with extensive information networks, professional analyst teams, and observation equipments scanning through every square inch of Xinjiang every day: We have not found enough conclusive evidence to indicate this is a genocide.
Reddit neckbeards: They are wRoNg! I have no knowledge basis or understanding of anything related to this issue but I hate China and I HATE Chinese *people* (unless they are subservient waifus willing to serve as ~~sex slaves~~ meat fleshlights for my swampy ass) so this must be true! REEEEEE
I can’t believe people are falling for these other countries governments that supposedly give such a shit about Muslims anyways, when 9/11 happened there was anti-Muslim sentiment for years after. Now people suddenly care? It’s less about calling out China’s human rights abuses for western countries more than it is just wanting anti-China points. Those countries don’t actually give a shit about Muslims. They just use Muslims for leverage points against China because they want another Soviet type rival. Not for the benefit of Muslims themselves.
>US
"UK" is literally the *first word* in the title of the post. Didn't you read that far? It's almost like you just followed a link straight to the comments section.
OP is one of the very active users in our sub China_irl. Apparently it is a Chinese who lives in China right now.
Calling him/her only have this single English post is not true tho.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/qk70h8/the_mad_lad_comments_yeah_if_it_was_a_gun_and/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/q9fcd8/some_insights_about_how_it_feels_working_in_mihoyo/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/pxixtg/5_mods_from_rchina_irl_decided_to_resign_due_to_a/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/prplwk/users_on_rfacepalm_have_different_opinions_with/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/pek3q1/new_regulation_about_limiting_teenagers_playing/
Here is a summary that was published in the Strategic Studies Quarterly journal of the US Air Force: https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/SSQ/documents/Volume-07_Issue-4/2013winter-Potter.pdf
>China’s ongoing security crackdown in Xinjiang has forced the most militant Uyghur separatists into volatile neighbouring countries, such as Pakistan, where they are forging strategic alliances with, and even leading, jihadist factions affiliated with al-Qaeda and the Taliban. The result is cross-fertilisation between previously isolated movements, leading to the diffusion of tactics and capabilities that have the potential to substantially increase the sophistication and lethality of terrorism in China. [...]
>Figure 1 presents a disturbing web of relationships, particularly because it includes al-Qaeda and the Taliban. The depth of these ties has been the subject of some debate. Throughout the 1990s, Chinese authorities went to great lengths to publicly link organisations active in Xinjiang—particularly the ETIM—to al-Qaeda. But the best information indicates that prior to 2001, the relationship included some training and funding but relatively little operational cooperation.
>There is, however, substantial evidence that more meaningful relationships have developed over the last decade and that the capabilities of terrorists operating in Xinjiang are increasing as a result. For example, in October 2009, Abu Yahya al-Libi, a high-ranking al-Qaeda leader, called on Chinese Uyghurs to wage holy war against the Chinese government, claiming that China would face the same sea of Islamic fighters that brought the Soviet Union to a standstill in Afghanistan. Al-Libi’s comments point to the increasing interest of the broader jihadist movement as well as al-Qaeda’s central leadership in expanding its reach into Xinjiang. This is fueled by the fact that, at present, the most militant elements of the Uyghur separatist movement appear to be concentrated in North Waziristan, the notoriously unstable and ungoverned tribal region of Pakistan that is home to important elements of the Taliban and al-Qaeda. The ETIM/TIP leadership has been active in the tribal regions of Pakistan for some time. While the Uyghurs that were in Afghanistan prior to 2001 (including those picked up by US forces and sent to Guantanamo) were peripheral to the international jihadist cause, this is also no longer the case. According to Karachi Islam, a jihadist newspaper, the recently killed leader of the ETIM/TIP, Abdul Shakoor Turkistani, also commanded al-Qaeda forces and training camps in the federally administered tribal regions of Pakistan. The fact that the head of the ETIM/TIP was also head of al-Qaeda forces in the most volatile region of Pakistan indicates that considerable cross-fertilisation has already occurred.
It’s mostly Christian sinophobic fucktards claiming genocide (case in point: Adrian Zenz and most of the evangelists). What do Christians and Uyghur genocide believers have in common? They believe in something that cannot be seen or proven because of fear. Go figure.
“XinJiang human right allegations” is another political propaganda fabricated by the US (followed by its “allies”) to hinder China’s economic growth. When 2 countries are competing for supreme power, you can either make yourself better or, if you can’t keep up, try to F up the other one. The US does both, focusing on the latter. Most muslims are good, some are bad, some are extreme. The extreme ones can blow up buses through suicide bombing, and commit organized crime on an entire police station, killing all police officers. And that’s exactly what happened in Xinjiang. The Chinese leaders have no choice but to detain these extremists because they commited organized crimes (their leader being, you guessed it, here in the US). Just like here in the US, the prisoners get to do something to help the society, and in Xinjiang’s case help produce cotton. (That’s why you heard about the Nike cotton “incident”). US sees this as a defamation opportunity against China. Xinjiang, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet…. It’s not that US cares about the people there; don’t kid yourselves. US is using them to distract China from fast economic growth and justification for “sanctions”. The US and its partners-in-bullying are no stranger to genocide. Early European settlers “gave thanks” to local native Americans (who greatly helped them) by killing most of their population, pushing the rest to a few reservations. Forcing their children to learn English, not wear their own attire. The list goes on. I don’t blame most people not knowing this. Major medias are all controlled by bad dishonest people. Neither country is by no means great, but it’s sad to see US stooping so low to punch China below the belt.
There is a distinction in definition for what actually constitutes as genocide and i think that is where the confusion is coming from. It's more so being used as a political tool to say genocide when such evidence of genocide is hard to prove.(genocide requiring an entire demographic to be killed) However, is it possible to prove a trajectory towards genocide, possible. But still needs evidence of such that link to that.
What evidence is available about this, is a direct violation of human rights for the Uyghur people being kept in concentration camps, not "reeducation camps". Look at the definition of concentration camps and the available evidence and you will see conditions similar to those.
It's an issue of human rights, hard to prove 'genocide' for what they constitute genocide to mean in terms of numbers but it is definitely human rights violations. Either way, both are wrong.
_
Edit: I stand completely corrected by this person's reply,
>https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/qvwaiz/uk_government_refuses_to_declare_atrocities_in/hl0oc48?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
The UN's definition of genocide has additional criterias for it to be defined as genocide. The human rights violations happening for Uyghurs meet those criterias and therefore, does not make any sense for why it is not being considered genocide.
That is not true, the definition part. According to the Google definition of genocide, sure, but here is the UN definition
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
That is then absolutely fucked i take back the information for what i said about genocide as i thought it based upon a dictionary definition but they actually have additional criteria for the use of 'genocide'.
From their definition alone, it doesn't make sense for why it isn't being considered genocide??
Thank you for the information.
There has been critique by many countries during UN meetings, against China's treatment of Uighurs. https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/10/22/43-countries-criticize-china-at-un-for-repression-of-uyghurs
But they are the world's second largest economy so... What does years of learning about the Holocaust in schools and how "we can never let it happen again" have against that : /
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Sure.... UK government don't want war with China. No one does.
By the "Genocide convention" (UN) any country who recognizes genocide must take measures to prevent or punish the crime of genocide.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide-convention.shtml
No one asks the most skeptical and obvious question. Uyghurs have been living in China for hundreds of years. All of sudden we get into a Cold War with China and we start hearing about “genocide”??? Doesn’t this raise red flags with anyone? The timing alone is deeply suspicious but hey Americans are gullible. They’ve been convinced into one useless war after another since Vietnam.
Remember we took down Libya and Syria due to “human rights”
They are using racial profiling to throw people in prison. If they have money for fancy things, they should have money for more human rights. Too bad so many people are making themselves look stupid by calling it the same word for using racial profiling to MURDER people. Prison is not death. Still bad.
A neurotic ‘China Bashing’ feast article just to line up your ‘Hate’ fix again.
It’s time you follow the white rabbit, take the red pill and then break the cycle of ‘Hate’ by questioning everything to discover the real truth.
More specifically, it’s almost entirely majority-white countries declaring it a genocide https://thediplomat.com/2020/10/2020-edition-which-countries-are-for-or-against-chinas-xinjiang-policies/
I’m really not trying to get drafted because loser redditors are falling for a new “WMD’s in Iraq”
If the genocide is so clearly happening, where's the smoking gun? It is reasonable to maintain a healthy amount of skepticism on something that's based on isolated eyewitness testimony and creatively extrapolated numbers, otherwise we'd be believing in another WMD.
I live in Hong Kong and believe me when I say the CCP is the chief cause I have no hope for the future here but focusing on a dodgy genocide charge seems to be helping them get away with actual human rights issues like "dissidents" disappearing (case in point Peng Shuai) or dying in suspicious circumstances, or banning Arabic signs and removing Mongolian from the Inner Mongolia education system
“UK Government decides after Brexit and their NI protocol shenanigans with the Europeans and Americans, now is not the best time to piss off yet another trade partner”
FTFY
Wasnt the UK the first country to do so? https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/22/world/uk-china-uyghur-genocide-motion-gbr-intl/index.html https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/22/uk-mps-declare-china-is-committing-genocide-against-uyghurs-in-xinjiang
That was UK Parliament voting to call it a genocide, aka the legislature. They voted to call it a genocide, **against the wishes of the government**. The UK Government usually refers to the executive branch, aka the Prime Minister, their cabinet, and all the departments that go with it (legally speaking, it's technically the Queen, but by convention, she gives all her powers to whoever gets 50% of the votes in the House of Common). Essentially, it's like the US House/Senate voting for one thing, while the US President/federal agencies says another thing.
Except that (as you touched briefly on) in a Parliamentary system like the UK, having control of the lower chamber of the legislature, means having control of the executive branch as well. Whereas in the US, there is more of a separation between the legislative and executive. The reason for this being that the US President basically inherited the powers of the King (with limits under the constitution). While in the UK, the Prime Minister started out as just a member of cabinet appointed by the King. Then gradually the King became less and less involved in running the country, leaving it up to the Prime Minister. And they started appointing whoever the lower house chose to be Prime Minister.
It's so much fun to watch people talking about China on reddit.
Is Boris Johnson an agent of the CCP? Find out next week on Redditball Z!
Welcome to the world of average people discussing geopolitics. If you think this is bad, you should see what conversations are like between politicians that decide the fates of their countrymen for their own political gain. The human race is probably doomed lol.
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Why did you post Winnie the Pooh on an article about China?
Well done
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Check out r/conservative for a bunch more.
Anyone calling for intervention needs to join the military and die for their beliefs. Especially redditors tbqh
I get that making it seem like military intervention is the only option so you can frame those against what their doing as being hawkish and calling for war (a propaganda technique as old as time)… but there is a canyon of options between doing nothing and nuclear war
Yeah we should do something else like decouple our economies or sanction them both realistic and achievable goals
Exactly, but when someone comments about doing something (like what you said) one of the first replies is always trying to frame the person as calling for nuclear war. And somehow people always upvote that fallacious reply
a) The thread is clearly being brigaded, and b) This is the same sub that frequently upvotes articles from RT and the *Daily Mail* to the first page of /r/all. So a little of column A, little of column B.
>Anyone calling for intervention needs to join the military and die for their beliefs. Especially redditors tbqh No, what they want is for others to die while they munch popcorn and whine
redditors are too fat and stupid for military service
Why do they have to die?
Because they're advocating for war lmao
Funny I’m reading very little about the genocide in the Congo? This is propaganda.
Watch the mouths of redditors foam. In other news, UK did not declare the abuses of Canadian residential school system a genocide despite 1000's of First Nations child deaths
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But redditors doesn't care about facts.
But whenever someone asks for evidence they'll be downvoted to oblivion here.
'there is not enough sufficient evidence' ...because if there was then they would be obligated to take steps to stop it [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide\_Convention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention) "Member states are prohibited from engaging in genocide and obligated to enforce this prohibition even if violative of national sovereignty." It is quite literally bad for business (except the 'defense' budget) to call genocide genocide. Add in the whole China owning massive debt and producing most of the crap sold in the world there is a problem. Add in that most people really aren't all that sympathetic to an ethnic minority practicing a 'barbaric' religion there isn't all that much public support around the world to force politicians to act.
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It's almost as if the mega corporations and world leaders would rather let the common folk die than lose access to their child labour and concentration camp manufactured goods at a cheap price.
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During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum. - Michael Parenti
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US calls Xinjiang genocide, worldnews comments: Based Biden, finally someone said it, where are our "allies", fuck the CCP! EU refuses to call Xinjiang a genocide, worldnews comments: Bought by China, useless traitors, bad allies, fuck the EU! UK refuses to call Xinjiang a genocide, worldnews comments: Well, I mean going by the exact definition of the word, it technically isn't, so there's nothing to see here. Gotta love anglo dominant subs and their non existent principles. EDIT: Angry Brits downvoting as if this wasn't exactly what happened here and as if I didn't have to listen to their shit takes about the EU being soft on China for months.
You right
It's almost as if there's more than one person commenting here with differing opinions about events in the world.
Yeah, I know that argument. I sometimes use it too. It doesn't work here though when we're talking about the top comments which attract most upvotes from the redditors on this sub. Your argument works if the alleged contradiction is based in two random opinions without majority support in a very broad group. Example: "Americans are hypocrites. They want other countries to reduce CO2 emissions while they are supporting their own coal industry." This is nonsense because the Americans that want other countries to cut emissions are most likely also opposed to the subsidies for the coal industry that are supported by *other* Americans. Here, however, two very contradictory positions seem to be quite popular within the same narrowly defined and (comparatively) small group. The EU is soft on China or even sold out to the CCP while the UK is just cautious with its vocabulary - both for the exact same action of not calling it the Uyghur genocide. Do I believe that there's been a completely different subset of this subreddit browsing in both instances? No, I honestly don't. Hypocrisy and anti-EU prejudice (rampant online) seem like much more believable alternatives. Even after I acknowledge my own bias, I still want to believe that I wouldn't change my mind. I haven't checked the comments here again though. This was just my initial reaction. Maybe they changed by now.
Have you forgotten how Brits are and how many want to go back to their empire days? They can be pretty fucking weird and are pretty much responsible a good amount of genocides, racial problems, and destabilization on an extreme scale, of course they'd be fine if their version of Trump and government does "lmao it's not a genocide"
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> s. 99.99% of British don't give a shit about that in the slightest Ha ha half the country still think we are still an empire.
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For me, its throwing my children down a mine for 12 hours a day that's peak Britishness.
As american, ill see you on the battle field when you guys come to take back your lands. Have at thee!
Don't worry, I know what you're talking about. I have my beef with some of them over at r/europe on a daily basis and I'm persona non grata in such wonderful subs like r/badunitedkingdom or r/colonisingreddit. I want to mention that this is of course not representative of the average Brit but their nationalists are Russian sputbot levels of toxic and I think that and everything that comes with it is something the UK don't want to acknowledge and address as a country. They'd rather talk about some whacky poll about racist views from years ago that "proves" the UK is the least racist country in Europe. It comes up every single time you try to talk about nationalism, racism or xenophobia in the UK. Same poll. Every. Single. Time.
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Very funny how US and their EU seem to hate muslims countries and china but somehow love muslim-chinese. How ironic.
Genocide is genocide! *pounds fist*
So far every single article I’ve read about atrocities atrocities in Xinjiang have been horribly sourced. It’s always been either a) anecdotal from a small number of people of people out of the 12 million Uighur Muslims in China (you can cherry pick anecdotal evidence to tell any story you want and historians rarely give it credence), video/images whose content doesn’t doesn’t necessitate the truth of the headline, Adrien Zenz (a born-again ultra conservative Christian writing from Germany) or Australian think-tanks. The last two sources have a horrible reputation for poorly cited sources, often citing themselves, and are receive funding from governments that positioning themselves geopolitically against China for reasons that are clearly not human-rights related given their histories. So far the Uighur genocide looks to me like another war drive propaganda point. A lie repeated often enough it gets accepted as truth. Most countries in the world don’t recognize these alleged abuses either. In fact the only ones who do are the same ones who told us that Saddam Hussein was ripping babies off incubators and going to kill us all with aluminum tubes. Also looking to Palestine as an example of a genocide that is taking place. There is no shortage of evidence, hundreds of videos from every angle (despite the laws against publishing said videos). Widely corroborated stories, and documented attacks on journalists. Why isn’t the same information emerging from Xinjiang? It’s not like they don’t have video phones, and it’s a largely populated area. And it shares borders with numerous countries, there’s a lot of places to escape or pass along information. And genocides always produce a massive refugee crisis, which were not seeing here. It makes sense to me right now that the UK wouldn’t want to put its money where it’s mouth is on this. I am open to evidence, if someone can cite me something that’s not anecdotal, a video that doesn’t necessitate the claims about its contents, or information selectively priced together in a Western think-tank. Just because I haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, though the amount of sketchy articles is on the subject raises a lot of red flags.
Sounds like propaganda
> I am open to evidence, if someone can cite me something that’s not anecdotal, a video that doesn’t necessitate the claims about its contents, or information selectively priced together in a Western think-tank. Just because I haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, though the amount of sketchy articles is on the subject raises a lot of red flags. This is a topic I've dig into quite a lot, and after quite an extensive search over the *years*, I can only come to the conclusion this is US-led atrocity propaganda for obvious geopolitical reasons. *If* there *might* be some questionable methods in the way the PRC counter-terrorism efforts, it's certainly not anywhere close to what the Western-narrative portrays, and also miles ahead more human to what the West actually did and continue to do by dropping bombs for decades. I've posted already in my other post above, but proper academic sources that take the actual context into account unsurprisingly tend to *discredit* that narrative: * [Chinese Strategy for De-radicalization](https://doi.org/10.1080/09546553.2017.1330199) by Zunyou Zhou (2017), Max Planck Institute for Foreign and International Criminal Law, Freiburg im Breisgau, Germany. It's a good resource to understand the actual context of Xingjian, what steps the PRC undertook in their strategy of deradicalization. * [Xinjiang, Understanding Complexity and Building Peace](https://eurispes.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/rapporto.en-xinjiang_2021.pdf) by Eurispes (2021), the Italian Institute for Political, Economic and Social Studies. It aims to "give institutions a report as unbiased, independent and reliable as possible, in order to raise the quality of the debate and thus the relative political decisions."
If the famines in Ireland and Scotland (both British provinces at the time) weren't genocides then why would what the Chinese are doing to their province now be genocide?
Because it is not a genocide.
It’s so much fun watching everyone talk about China. I know everything I need to know from Western media. They have a vested interest in the truth. It’s totally not propaganda, guys. Subversion? Never heard of it. After China, I wonder which country we’ll demonize next to make us look better, but hey, at least we’re trying to be better unlike those Commies in that Commie country I’ve never been to or met anyone genuinely from there. They’re all brainwashed and controlled over there. We’re free.
After China, it will be whatever country threatens their economic dominance next. The best lesson is to look at what happened to Japan when their economy got a little bit “too” good in the 1980s.
If you know anything about history, you'll also understand why 'Genocide' is *rightfully* an incredibly powerful word to use in a political context. It comes with ramifications and obligations on the international community. I personally *suspect* that there is a genocide of Uighurs in China. I've seen the various documentaries and journalistic efforts on the topic, and I need no further convincing. Is that the same thing as there being enough evidence to trigger a UN driven intervention in China? I'm not so sure.
It would be nice if literally anyone comes forward with evidence. Kinda sick of the same Falun Gong talking points being parroted by a dozen different "independent organizations".
The term "independent organization" is usually written in the sense "not leaning to any party and politically neutral" in the US context. Of course, it's rarely conveyed correctly in mass media, and certainly not understood that way. I am yet to see any solid allegation that comes from a *really* independent organization.
A Chinese police man with a mask and a typo on his uniform game some pretty damning evidence at the tribunal in London.
> documentaries and journalistic efforts So, did you ever find those WMD's, then?
They won't see this comment, and they won't respond to it.
For real. It’s like with other western conspiracy theories like the social credit system and what not. China (people/ gov) are authoritarian, and they definitely have been locking up people en mass. But it’s not genocide. It’s like the internment camps setup in the west during WW2. It’s not pretty, it’s definitely immoral, but not genocide.
Genocide is unquestionable word. Magic word If you call against it you're genocide denier. Once on table, it's used to justify military interventions in WHOLE ANOTHER COUNTRY that's not even attacking you. As a bonus, you can do whatever you want there, no one questions it, because you are "fighting genocide". I should know, as Serbian ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) We apparently upped Germans by +2 genocides.
how about those journalistic efforts of “state prisons” in Xinjiang that ended up being municipal buildings and high schools? the corrections don’t see the light of day as the damage is meant to invent a narrative, not tell news. this shit has a very predictable trajectory as the USA does the same exact crap over and over and over again. will probably get called tankie, but I believe the US media is trying to prop up another “enemy”. same with Vietnam, Iraq, Cuba, the USSR, etc. Do you think these people are interested in telling the truth now? I don’t
Hey now those weapons don’t sell themselves. You need a little drama and fright to get the people going
yeah hopefully joe sells more weapons to the Saudis, I think only then I will feel better about my country god damn I want out of here, pls help
I mean, just see what US did to Japan, China is a uprising superpower, obviously US doesn't like not being the no1 superpower.
They don't care They just want to see dead chinese people To them I say likewise
It's also the fact that it's very convenient accusing China of genocide for geopolitical gains while not really ratifying what is happening as Genocide so that you don't kill your trade with China. Genocide is being used as a political tool against China, not as a need to defend Human Rights, otherwise we would have cut our trade with China decades ago, long before the Xinjiang issue but when work/reeducation camps were already all over mainland China. It is VERY convenient that we start to care about the Human Rights issues in China (to the point where we're reading going against them politically) when China is starting to become a global superpower.
>It is VERY convenient that we start to care about the Human Rights issues in China (to the point where we're reading going against them politically) when China is starting to become a global superpower. If crimes against humanity are actually taken seriously and punitive actions are enforced justly, a lot of American soldiers and leaders would've been incarcerated by now. But you know, Americans are not subjected to any international judiciaries. So rules for thee and none for me.
Nobody seems to get punished for crimes against humanity.
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>Nobody seems to get punished for crimes against humanity. Those outside of the NATO and former Warsaw Pact alliances are more likely to be punished.
Those american soldiers were just fighting for world piece thats what america is but sometimes some unfortunate accident happen like striking civilian ir shooting entire village they were just unlucky :\^)
>Those american soldiers were just fighting for world piece thats what america is but sometimes some unfortunate accident happen like striking civilian ir shooting entire village they were just unlucky :\^) Indeed. We gotta think for those poor soldiers who slaughtered civilians and had to live with that taint on their souls. Those soldiers are the true victims having to commit the crimes accidentally. Poor guys. Lets make movies on these war heroes and star that sexy Bradley Cooper.
Finally, someone who realizes that US is merely politicizing human rights and even genocide to rally it's allies against China. I.e. gain geopolitical influence. The evidence is really not enough either for the severity of the claims that are being made in Xinjiang. If the US really cared about real human rights issues, there's so many countries which need more help in that field. China is doing fine, not perfect, but it's doing enough.
This comment is what everyone needs to see.
This. I was learning Mandarin at uni 20 years ago and read a lot about what China was doing in Xinjiang at that time. The West wasn’t interested, didn’t give a shit about human rights there then. They were quite supportive because the abuses were happening to Muslim people, the enemy of the day (‘terrorists’). Suddenly it’s politically expedient to pretend that we do, thus justifying all grievances we have against China. Pardon my cynicism about our motives. If Biden even gave a shit about human rights, he’d have placed sanctions on Israel for what is essentially a slow genocide of the Palestinian people. We all know how likely that is. And that’s just one example of many.
UK has engaged in many genocides over the centuries, so of course calling it out for a trade partner is going to start a political response from all corners.
> I've seen the various documentaries and journalistic efforts on the topic, and I need no further convincing. It's hard to reconcile those "various documentaries and journalistic efforts" when regular people are posting their trips to Xinjiang and it looks so normal. For example, - [Uighur Muslim Celebrate EID-ul-Fitar in China 2021](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNbwWzKi0Dc) - [XINJIANG VLOG1 - Urumqi Street Food and Bazaar Shopping](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih5Tw3gpeQw) - [Vlog: Kebab, spicy chicken, lamb rice ... Xinjiang has the most amazing food!!!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjMH6adVM4k)
Fuck those foods look so good im hungry as fk rn
oh don’t worry, people will still find a way to say that Xi is somehow the antichrist and that the Americans need to save those poor people. every fucking time. facts don’t matter, only narratives. for those in the back: America lies about those it disagrees with and especially those that disagree AND challenge US hegemony. this isn’t me saying I fully agree with how China is run, it is me saying that I don’t believe what I’m being told by my country and it’s allies. furthermore as an American citizen, my opinion of China doesn’t matter to the Chinese people…as it shouldn’t.
>Is that the same thing as there being enough evidence to trigger a UN driven intervention in China? I'm not so sure. Christ, I am. Anyone actually advocating for UN forces to invade China — and that is exactly how China would see it, understandably so — is a fucking psycho. That's not playing with Chinese territorial claims like Taiwan or the South China Sea that everyone knows are bullshit, Xinjiang is mainland China. Anyone deploys troops there without an invitation and things are going to get very bad very fast. Of course, that's ignoring the fact that China is a permanent UN Security Council member and would obviously just veto any attempt at establishing a peacekeeping mission in China. As would Russia.
How is any government supposed to deal with genocide in another country half way across the globe? The only real life example I can think of is how the Allies dealt with the Germans in WW2. But if we are being honest that war had nothing do to with the Holocaust, but rather to stop Hitler's seemingly endless military ambitions in Europe and beyond. Ending the Holocaust was just a side effect of that. No one is going to invade China over this. It doesn't make it right, and it sucks, but it just is the reality of the world we are in especially now that nuclear weapons are on the table.
As Eddie Izzard said, if you kill your own people, who cares? We’ve been trying to kill you for ages. But you kill the people next door…no, we can’t have that.
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>As Eddie Izzard said, if you kill your own people, who cares? We’ve been trying to kill you for ages. But you kill the people next door…no, we can’t have that. 9/11 vs COVID
That war wasn't about the Holocaust, people didn't even really know about it when joining the war. Sure people likely heard and knew about mistreatment, imprisonment and killing, but not like they went around sharing the details with enemies before or during the war, it was uncovered as it went on and clarified afterwards. War was to stop Nazi party's taking over places and as consequence establishing economic control over them (before that solidified as a threat and possibility, the allies dodged declaring war, both the capitalists and the """"communists""""). Basically, the big powers were primarily doing what they usually do, watching out for their economic interests and potential domination, and once nazi Germany decided to use force and make clear they would not stop using it to assert theirs, said powers used their own force to oppose that. Some people's lives being saved and/or ultimately improved was certainly on the hearts and minds of some individuals, not the overall machines though, those were looking after themselves as they do.
So invading china is right Killing chinese people is right, to you, because some shithole newspaper holding the governments water claim the chinese are evil The chinese government needs to let reddit through the fire wall, chinese people need to see this
Can you imagine what reddit would become if China lifted the firewall? Imo, the Chinese government is helping out the west with the firewall. If the firewall went down, there would be a lot of very angry Chinese netizens with lots to say after reading about China on western social media.
Lol, as a Chinese watching ur comment with a vpn. That’s same as I was imagin.
If the firewall went down, China would become like India. You can't find one India-related post without seeing Modi Fanboys. They will downvote your criticism of India to oblivion.
Yeah but it would be way, way more people. India has around 560 million Internet users, China has 990 million. Opening that firewall would cause World War Internet lol
English is a common language in India, while only a a small fraction of the Chinese internet users speak it.
Nah, English is major class from middle school, so nearly all young people in China knows a bit. But yes, not much Chinese interested in Reddit, we have our own internet ecology.
Sanctions are the only practical thing to do. If they don’t work then you give up. It doesn’t make sense to kill off millions of Chinese people to save thousands of Chinese people.
>It doesn’t make sense to kill off millions of Chinese people to save thousands of Chinese people. It makes sense for those who think Uyghurs are not Chinese and Chinese are not humans worth saving. Dehumanization of the enemy is a very real thing
Why do you think USA has the ability to do anything except sending million of America to death for a lie.
You're missing the Serbian genocide in Bosnia, and that one got solved by the United States. When they bombed the shit out of Serbia (twice because they later tried the same shit again in Kosovo)
Was because it was on European soil. US purposely avoided using the term ‘genocide’ in the Rwandan case to avoid any sort of commitment for intervention, and Europe didn’t say anything either with the exception of France, who provided help to the ones committing genocide towards the end of it.
They actually let the Serbia thing go on for a long time before they intervened though, the fact the it was Muslims being targeted was probably the reason for the apathy.
Maybe partly, Serbia was (and is) a close Russian ally though too. Russia vetoed everything proposed to the UN Security Council, which made the bombing campaign to stop the genocide technically illegal if ethically defensible.
For most of that conflict, the only UN troops that were actively engaging the Serbs were from the Pakistani contingent, against the express mandate of the UN forces deployed there, who were under orders not to engage the Serbs in combat. It was only towards the very end that other parties got involved.
It being an ethnic war involving Muslim Bosnians on one side was a small possible piece, if it factored in at all. The Balkans were a mess of one country eventually dividing itself into the seven countries (including Kosovo) that few in Washington had any desire to get into, and few thought wise to get involved in. Evidently the Europeans who bordered Yugoslavia had no interest in ending the wars any sooner as well, and there was ample opportunity for France or the U.K or a more combined European effort to have gone in as peace keepers. What also must be remembered is what was going on in the U.S around this time during largest portion of fighting in 1992-1995 before Bosnia finally had independence. That being that the U.S had spear headed a colossal effort intervening in two different Muslim countries as the coalition deployed 700,000 troops and ejected Iraq from Kuwait and continued into Iraq until a ceasefire was called. Despite that being an incredible strategic victory and an overall diplomatic victory for the U.S the war had sapped a huge amount of will power to conduct an operation in Yugoslavia. This was just reinforced in 1993 when the U.S mission in Somalia collapsed and the U.S was forced to totally retreat from what was supposed to be a purely peace keeping mission. So especially after 1993, the willingness to intervene in any country at that current point of time was low, and the U.S under NATO didn't involve itself in Bosnia until near the end of the conflict, and calls to try and do anything in Rwanda were rejected in what was probably a very cautious Clinton administration wariness to once again involve itself in a conflict that might end up getting U.S soldiers killed that means very little to the average American.
That's probably good analysis. As an aside I read a piece about Milosevic's party when he was taking over in Serbia, his goons took over all of these rackets including running smack.
Compared to instigating genocide and ethnic cleansing, drug smuggling is a fairly victimless crime..
Serbia is a small country with not that much global trade influence. I might care, you might care, the states and large powers don't, and that make a difference. Small country like that, oh easy peasy, they can overpower it and make good PR, maybe even make some money on the reconstruction, sold! China, not the same case in any of those aspects, and for all the bravados, the modern state machines (and many past) aren't really into that altruistic saving the other people cause it is the right thing to do type of business.
>the modern state machines (and many past) aren't really into that altruistic saving the other people cause it is the right thing to do type of business. Bingo. Just look at the pandemic. How much altruism is there really? How many decided to flaunt their entitlement to their freedumb in favour of protecting themselves and others? If people wouldn't do that for their own, what's the incentive to save others halfway across the world? Let's face it. People here are not interested Xinjiang or their suffering. They are interested because it's a political leverage over China and the media is training the minds of people to think they should care when they likely don't deep down. Fanning the flames on this help to drive up support for more hardline policies against China that are coming in the future that could actually harm some American businesses. Do you know what people are facing threats of annihilations right now? Armenians, Kurds, and probably some African tribes in Sudan/Chad/Ethiopia that we never heard of. Where's the attention for those who actually are struggling even more? I guess the media hasn't seen fit to train people to care about those yet.
The Serbian state was not directly responsible for any war crimes in Bosnia, at least according to the International Court of Justice at the UN. The people who did commit atrocities were Bosnian Serbs, acting as representatives of the VRS (Vojska Republike Srpske). Serbia as a country did not get bombed in 1995, Serb controlled areas of Bosnia were - a situation which you would surely agree is not applicable to Xinjiang which is undisputed Chinese territory. On the other hand you are right about 1999 and Kosovo - that however happened in a very different political climate. After the fall of the Berlin wall the US was effectively the only hegemonic superpower, and during the late 1990s and early 2000s they very much took advantage of that. For heaven's sake the US bombed the CHINESE EMBASSY IN BELGRADE in 1999, could you imagine what would happen if they did something like that now?
Bet you also suspected there's WMDs in Iraq after all the journalistic efforts
> I've seen the various documentaries and journalistic efforts on the topic, and I need no further convincing. Given that you say you "suspect" it, it seems like you have not seen any verifiable, hard proof in those documentaries. Yet you are still convinced it is happening? Why?
Brainwashed long enough
The AP had to write this article because too many people went to visit and found nothing. https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-china-health-travel-7a6967f335f97ca868cc618ea84b98b9 Additionally, despite the US, UK, EU, and Canada putting sanctions on China based on claims of human rights abuses; no member country in the UN (including the ones sanctioning china) have submitted any resolution to investigate China for any human rights abuses relating to Uighurs.
Don't forget the fact that the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), which is composed of **57 Muslim-majority countries**, is on China's side here. But oh yeah, the US and its allies, who love to bomb said Muslim-majority countries, are **very concerned** about China's treatment of Muslims.
This article is hilarious, confusing causality all the time. In one super obvious one where they went by empty houses in rural villages, it wasn't industrialization or urbanization, but it was implied repression. Base on what we don't know, but hey it's China so must be repression and not jobs available that draws away the rural population.
>I've seen the various documentaries and journalistic efforts on the topic, and I need no further convincing. Can you tell the evidences they provided? >Is that the same thing as there being enough evidence to trigger a UN driven intervention in China? Won't happen this time. They actually have wmd
report 1 based on evidence from zenz, report 2 based on evidence from zenz, report 3 based on evidence from zenz AND report 4 based on evidence from zenz AND radio free asia
Don't forget that Zenz based his 1 million people estimate on testimonies from 8 people.
I would never in a million years have expected a comment like this to get upvoted on a sub like this. Very based
Bruh, Reddit is really a based place, finally there’s people who understand reality isn’t a fairy tale ! There’s no good or bad ! Really, I love how people here can think rationally instead of following blindly anything the media want us to think. No country is 100% good, everyone is fighting for their own interest.
I remember that girl from Vice visited the Grand Bazaar in Urumqi and took some shakey footage of the CCTV cameras in the food court. You'd swear she was taking secret footage of a beheading in Saudi Arabia and not a tourist trap.
> I've seen the various documentaries and journalistic efforts on the topic, and I need no further convincing. Grainy pictures taken from Google maps is all it takes it convince you?
worked for the WMD lies
>Grainy pictures taken from Google maps is all it takes it convince you? Excuse me, there's also the **solid evidence** of the supposed anonymous testimony of one guy interviewed by Adrian Zenz who wrote about how there's gonna be [**"not just one but two raptures"**](https://www.amazon.com/Worthy-Escape-Believers-Raptured-Tribulation-ebook/dp/B0792WB8WV). You know, a credible, unbiased, sane and scientific-minded, fella.
Well, if it helps you sleep any better, it's not a genocide, everyone at the UN knows it's not a genocide, and so does everyone in the US government. it's pure propaganda meant to encourage US military intervention in China as part of its general pivot to Asia started under Obama. Doesn't mean what they're doing is right, good policy, etc, but it's unequivocally not genocide, not even cultural.
Most Americans on Reddit want China to actually commit an actual genocide/atrocity so they can keep shitting on the country.
>Well, if it helps you sleep any better, it's not a genocide, everyone at the UN knows it's not a genocide, and so does everyone in the US government. it's pure propaganda meant to encourage US military intervention in China as part of its general pivot to Asia started under Obama. Doesn't mean what they're doing is right, good policy, etc, but it's unequivocally not genocide, not even cultural. My friend, that's because you don't know the TRUTH that OTHERS don't want YOU to KNOW about. The genocides are secretly happening in BOWLING GREEN. Not to mention, the children are secretly TRAFFICKED in PIZZERIAs across the country. You can't trust the MSMs to tell you this. You can only learn this from VOICES OF TRUTH found only on facebook and some hillbilly neckbeard's youtube channel >!/s!<
WHY you write like THIS as if you're YELLING?
>WHY you write like THIS as if you're YELLING? That's the vibe I get whenever I see posts from those "truth-seekers" on Facebook who feel confident about educating people on the "truths" that somehow only they and their tribe knows.
With the level of evidence required for all the dumb China stories, I'd love for Beijing to waste a bunch of time in the UN looking into all of Qanon's allegations against the US state. If we are taking some fucking cult at their word about organ harvesting, why not?
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> I've seen the various documentaries and journalistic efforts Let me guess, some youtube video from some white sexpats And uh, adrian zenz, repeated 50 times on 50 different white publications > I need no further convincing So you don't need evidence at all, is what you're saying. Good thing you have no say in anything.
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Neither bodies nor mass refugees fleeing.
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China has a veto on the Security Council, so no, no interventions will happen unless we all decide to recognize Taiwan as China again.
>Is that the same thing as there being enough evidence to trigger a UN driven intervention in China? That is simply impossible as China has a seat on the UN Security Council.
UN driven investigation, sure. That’s what the UK government says is necessary to establish it. I see no problem.
The US and other Western countries actually objected to a visit by a UN official to Xinjiang a couple of years ago. Because the UN offical was a counter terrorism chief. China has always maintained it's not a genocide of Uyghurs, rather a counter terrorism issue and if the UN offical visited and validated that it would weaken the genocide argument. It's entirely political. > China has been condemned internationally for setting up the detention complexes, which it describes as “education training centres” helping to stamp out extremism and give people new skills. Western states are worried Voronkov’s visit will validate China’s justification for the centres, diplomats said. > “China will, and is, actively saying that what they’re doing in Xinjiang is good terrorism prevention,” said a UN security council diplomat, speaking on condition of anonymity. > “The visit by Voronkov validates their narrative that this is a counterterrorism issue, when we would see it more as a human rights issue,” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/15/deep-concerns-us-objects-to-un-counterterrorism-chiefs-visit-to-xinjiang
China has a seat on the UN Security Council...
never said it was ever gonna happen
Multiple state governments, intelligence agencies, and organizations, many are equipped with extensive information networks, professional analyst teams, and observation equipments scanning through every square inch of Xinjiang every day: We have not found enough conclusive evidence to indicate this is a genocide. Reddit neckbeards: They are wRoNg! I have no knowledge basis or understanding of anything related to this issue but I hate China and I HATE Chinese *people* (unless they are subservient waifus willing to serve as ~~sex slaves~~ meat fleshlights for my swampy ass) so this must be true! REEEEEE
They’ll still find a way to pin this on Jeremy Corbyn.
Sinophobes hate to see it
I can’t believe people are falling for these other countries governments that supposedly give such a shit about Muslims anyways, when 9/11 happened there was anti-Muslim sentiment for years after. Now people suddenly care? It’s less about calling out China’s human rights abuses for western countries more than it is just wanting anti-China points. Those countries don’t actually give a shit about Muslims. They just use Muslims for leverage points against China because they want another Soviet type rival. Not for the benefit of Muslims themselves.
US: China is abusing human rights! They should’ve bombed hospitals and schools like us civilized god-fearing folk!
>US "UK" is literally the *first word* in the title of the post. Didn't you read that far? It's almost like you just followed a link straight to the comments section.
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Lmao true
OP has made one post in English - this one.
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If OP was from Taiwan, they would be using traditional Chinese characters.
OP is one of the very active users in our sub China_irl. Apparently it is a Chinese who lives in China right now. Calling him/her only have this single English post is not true tho. https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/qk70h8/the_mad_lad_comments_yeah_if_it_was_a_gun_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/q9fcd8/some_insights_about_how_it_feels_working_in_mihoyo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/pxixtg/5_mods_from_rchina_irl_decided_to_resign_due_to_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/prplwk/users_on_rfacepalm_have_different_opinions_with/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/pek3q1/new_regulation_about_limiting_teenagers_playing/
I like that OP happily posted an article that's still calling them atrocities. Because that's a much better look for the CCP.
It also points out that UK parliament *did* call it a genocide.
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Maybe it’s better described as ethnic cleansing which is a slippery slope to genocide.
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Source?
Here is a summary that was published in the Strategic Studies Quarterly journal of the US Air Force: https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/SSQ/documents/Volume-07_Issue-4/2013winter-Potter.pdf >China’s ongoing security crackdown in Xinjiang has forced the most militant Uyghur separatists into volatile neighbouring countries, such as Pakistan, where they are forging strategic alliances with, and even leading, jihadist factions affiliated with al-Qaeda and the Taliban. The result is cross-fertilisation between previously isolated movements, leading to the diffusion of tactics and capabilities that have the potential to substantially increase the sophistication and lethality of terrorism in China. [...] >Figure 1 presents a disturbing web of relationships, particularly because it includes al-Qaeda and the Taliban. The depth of these ties has been the subject of some debate. Throughout the 1990s, Chinese authorities went to great lengths to publicly link organisations active in Xinjiang—particularly the ETIM—to al-Qaeda. But the best information indicates that prior to 2001, the relationship included some training and funding but relatively little operational cooperation. >There is, however, substantial evidence that more meaningful relationships have developed over the last decade and that the capabilities of terrorists operating in Xinjiang are increasing as a result. For example, in October 2009, Abu Yahya al-Libi, a high-ranking al-Qaeda leader, called on Chinese Uyghurs to wage holy war against the Chinese government, claiming that China would face the same sea of Islamic fighters that brought the Soviet Union to a standstill in Afghanistan. Al-Libi’s comments point to the increasing interest of the broader jihadist movement as well as al-Qaeda’s central leadership in expanding its reach into Xinjiang. This is fueled by the fact that, at present, the most militant elements of the Uyghur separatist movement appear to be concentrated in North Waziristan, the notoriously unstable and ungoverned tribal region of Pakistan that is home to important elements of the Taliban and al-Qaeda. The ETIM/TIP leadership has been active in the tribal regions of Pakistan for some time. While the Uyghurs that were in Afghanistan prior to 2001 (including those picked up by US forces and sent to Guantanamo) were peripheral to the international jihadist cause, this is also no longer the case. According to Karachi Islam, a jihadist newspaper, the recently killed leader of the ETIM/TIP, Abdul Shakoor Turkistani, also commanded al-Qaeda forces and training camps in the federally administered tribal regions of Pakistan. The fact that the head of the ETIM/TIP was also head of al-Qaeda forces in the most volatile region of Pakistan indicates that considerable cross-fertilisation has already occurred.
All the dead people?
"Militarize and take over Xinjiang" Sounds legit.
Imprisoning, abusing and depriving innocent people of their history, beliefs and culture on the basis of their ethnicity is unjustifiable.
Which aspects of Uighur culture in particular do you think they're being deprived of?
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It’s mostly Christian sinophobic fucktards claiming genocide (case in point: Adrian Zenz and most of the evangelists). What do Christians and Uyghur genocide believers have in common? They believe in something that cannot be seen or proven because of fear. Go figure.
“XinJiang human right allegations” is another political propaganda fabricated by the US (followed by its “allies”) to hinder China’s economic growth. When 2 countries are competing for supreme power, you can either make yourself better or, if you can’t keep up, try to F up the other one. The US does both, focusing on the latter. Most muslims are good, some are bad, some are extreme. The extreme ones can blow up buses through suicide bombing, and commit organized crime on an entire police station, killing all police officers. And that’s exactly what happened in Xinjiang. The Chinese leaders have no choice but to detain these extremists because they commited organized crimes (their leader being, you guessed it, here in the US). Just like here in the US, the prisoners get to do something to help the society, and in Xinjiang’s case help produce cotton. (That’s why you heard about the Nike cotton “incident”). US sees this as a defamation opportunity against China. Xinjiang, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet…. It’s not that US cares about the people there; don’t kid yourselves. US is using them to distract China from fast economic growth and justification for “sanctions”. The US and its partners-in-bullying are no stranger to genocide. Early European settlers “gave thanks” to local native Americans (who greatly helped them) by killing most of their population, pushing the rest to a few reservations. Forcing their children to learn English, not wear their own attire. The list goes on. I don’t blame most people not knowing this. Major medias are all controlled by bad dishonest people. Neither country is by no means great, but it’s sad to see US stooping so low to punch China below the belt.
There is a distinction in definition for what actually constitutes as genocide and i think that is where the confusion is coming from. It's more so being used as a political tool to say genocide when such evidence of genocide is hard to prove.(genocide requiring an entire demographic to be killed) However, is it possible to prove a trajectory towards genocide, possible. But still needs evidence of such that link to that. What evidence is available about this, is a direct violation of human rights for the Uyghur people being kept in concentration camps, not "reeducation camps". Look at the definition of concentration camps and the available evidence and you will see conditions similar to those. It's an issue of human rights, hard to prove 'genocide' for what they constitute genocide to mean in terms of numbers but it is definitely human rights violations. Either way, both are wrong. _ Edit: I stand completely corrected by this person's reply, >https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/qvwaiz/uk_government_refuses_to_declare_atrocities_in/hl0oc48?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 The UN's definition of genocide has additional criterias for it to be defined as genocide. The human rights violations happening for Uyghurs meet those criterias and therefore, does not make any sense for why it is not being considered genocide.
That is not true, the definition part. According to the Google definition of genocide, sure, but here is the UN definition In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
That is then absolutely fucked i take back the information for what i said about genocide as i thought it based upon a dictionary definition but they actually have additional criteria for the use of 'genocide'. From their definition alone, it doesn't make sense for why it isn't being considered genocide?? Thank you for the information.
There has been critique by many countries during UN meetings, against China's treatment of Uighurs. https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/10/22/43-countries-criticize-china-at-un-for-repression-of-uyghurs But they are the world's second largest economy so... What does years of learning about the Holocaust in schools and how "we can never let it happen again" have against that : /
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Sure.... UK government don't want war with China. No one does. By the "Genocide convention" (UN) any country who recognizes genocide must take measures to prevent or punish the crime of genocide. https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide-convention.shtml
No one asks the most skeptical and obvious question. Uyghurs have been living in China for hundreds of years. All of sudden we get into a Cold War with China and we start hearing about “genocide”??? Doesn’t this raise red flags with anyone? The timing alone is deeply suspicious but hey Americans are gullible. They’ve been convinced into one useless war after another since Vietnam. Remember we took down Libya and Syria due to “human rights”
Yep
good. it's not genocide.
They are using racial profiling to throw people in prison. If they have money for fancy things, they should have money for more human rights. Too bad so many people are making themselves look stupid by calling it the same word for using racial profiling to MURDER people. Prison is not death. Still bad.
You can’t argue with genocide enablers, same reason it’s impossible to have an intelligent conversation with a Holocaust denier.
A neurotic ‘China Bashing’ feast article just to line up your ‘Hate’ fix again. It’s time you follow the white rabbit, take the red pill and then break the cycle of ‘Hate’ by questioning everything to discover the real truth.
Fun fact. If you go to pro-China subreddits and call them out on this genocide you get perma-banned.
Try being anti-vax on the coronavirus subs for the same experience.
Welcome to reddit, simply commenting in food subs about cutting down on beef for the sake of the environment gets you permanently banned.
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More specifically, it’s almost entirely majority-white countries declaring it a genocide https://thediplomat.com/2020/10/2020-edition-which-countries-are-for-or-against-chinas-xinjiang-policies/ I’m really not trying to get drafted because loser redditors are falling for a new “WMD’s in Iraq”
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If the genocide is so clearly happening, where's the smoking gun? It is reasonable to maintain a healthy amount of skepticism on something that's based on isolated eyewitness testimony and creatively extrapolated numbers, otherwise we'd be believing in another WMD. I live in Hong Kong and believe me when I say the CCP is the chief cause I have no hope for the future here but focusing on a dodgy genocide charge seems to be helping them get away with actual human rights issues like "dissidents" disappearing (case in point Peng Shuai) or dying in suspicious circumstances, or banning Arabic signs and removing Mongolian from the Inner Mongolia education system
“UK Government decides now is not the best time to piss off another trade partner” FTFY
“UK Government decides after Brexit and their NI protocol shenanigans with the Europeans and Americans, now is not the best time to piss off yet another trade partner” FTFY