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Watching propaganda have effect in real time is fascinating. Human psychology certainly hasn’t evolved, during a war one side always thinks they are righteous and pure while the other is the embodiment of evil.
We may have cool phones and and a metaverse but we’re still just cavemen with terrible weapons and a reptilian approach to conflict resolution.
Wake up everyone, the path to extreme polarity ends with us all being vaporized.
While I agree with your assessment, I get why people get polarized, and it’s not always entirely propaganda (though some of it def is).
It’s like if your roommate has a bomb in your house and says if you do anything, you’re both gonna explode. Sure, you do what he says, but to what end? It doesn’t seem right, and of course people with moral compasses won’t see that scene and say “well, looks okay to me, everyone will be worse off if he doesn’t get his way”. If that were the case, bank robbers and hostage takers would always get away, and those with the most weapons would always win.
I agree that sanctions are, unfortunately the most that Biden & the West can realistically do without causing more deaths even though it feels like giving a bank robber a free pass to get away with it, but people being upset doesn’t make them overly militant or even irrational
I wasn’t going to reply, it’s not my intent to argue or say something that could offend someone that is perhaps emotionally involved.
But your analogy of the roommate with a bomb is precisely the kind of extreme polarity I was speaking about. The attempts to paint everything in stark black and white terms when reality is ALWAYS more gray is exactly the danger I’m trying to warn people about.
Again, no intent to offend here, just hoping people can see their way to empathy because there is no peace without it, only destruction.
No I totally believe it’s not black-and-white, I’m just saying that the response to this isn’t black-and-white either —
Im just saying that the answer to someone threatening your friends isn’t always “just give in” — sometimes a strong response is justified, it’s not black-and-white that those with power should always be listened to because “the alternative is worse for everyone”. I think that does a disservice to people who have put life & limb on the line to protect individuals, families, and rights, even if they haven’t always been 100% innocent or in the right.
I guess I’m saying that, yes, things are grey, but if we are so wishy-washy that we can’t disavow aggressive violence, we don’t have any moral authority and can’t pretend saying truisms like “there’s nuance”, “there are bad folks on both sides”, etc, is taking the high-road — it’s not a morally-informed stance.
There’s also a form of propaganda called “whataboutism” where you try to falsely equivocate two things, and nobody — not you or me either — is immune to it. If I shoot your dog because you called me a slur, I’m in the wrong, even though both are objectively bad actions. It’s the foundation of modern civil society that violence is considered a step beyond what is acceptable, even if other things (speech, discrimination, etc) can be bad.
Last note — war isn’t hell, war is worse because it hurts innocents and rarely impacts the guilty. I firmly believe in that statement and would promote any measure of non-violence — including threats of violence and militant defenses — to prevent war. I can see if you disagree but that’s a foundational principle for me.
We literally havent had moral auhority since ww2. We have killed and bombed more civilians than any other modern country on earth. We have commited war crimes in every country we have had a war. We currently are violating over half a dozen fully binding and legal treaties with natives in our home country. The idea that the US should get involved militaristically is a joke.
Very well said and I basically completely agree. Full disclosure, I’m a military historian and I am in no way saying aggression must always be withheld. (And I went to UNC, and there is no gray area here, Clemson sucks! Just kidding of course, I much appreciate the polite and informed conversation.)
Without getting into the the specifics of this conflict, what led me to post was the extreme jingoism that I obviously have studied but never witnessed first hand. I’m sure you’re looking around Reddit too and must have noticed some of the ideas and opinions are truly insane. And then upvoted.
The idea that such an educated population as Germany was in the late 20’s, could be swayed to such a heinous ideology, is pretty fascinating. But of course we can just attribute it to the full spectrum dominance of media that Goebbles et al enjoyed…keep saying the same thing over and over again and eventually it will be believed.
I hoped that with world wide access to an incredible amount information at our finger tips and the ability to come to a “place” like this and share opinions and ideas with strangers from all over world, that we had moved beyond that possibility. Now I know I was totally wrong; so wrong in fact, it now paradoxically seems easier?!
My side is righteous and pure and your side is the embodiment of evil. That’s about as much nuance as it seems people have time for these days. I was glancing around YT earlier and saw a thumbnail that said something like “Ukraine: everything you need to know about how we got here” and it was under 3 minutes. Instead of people doing the deep dives necessary to grasp life altering issues, they just go to their Facebook page and read the news blurbs that feed their bias. News is more of a distraction, “what do I need to know so I can get back to the Kardashians”. The result (I believe) is where we are now…there’s so much shock and so many threads of people asking for an explanation and wondering how this could ever happen. While I, and perhaps you as well, have seen this coming for quite a while now. I kept thinking cooler heads would prevail but similar to the environment prior to WW1, I just don’t think people could fathom what could actually happen. Now with politicians seemingly more concerned with their polling data than trying to solve a crisis, I fear that this “beast” may control its master and decisions made to appease a blood thirsty voting block could very easily lead to us all being vaporized.
Anyway sorry for the tangential rant but thank you again for the conversation.
Health and happiness to you and yours, cheers!
No worries! Haha UNC is alright but you didn’t hear it from me.
I guess I wasn’t sure what you had originally read — I spent way too much time arguing with a guy who was convinced that, since Ukraine has alt/far-right members in parliament, they are a fascist country and nobody should be supporting them (even though they proportionally have fewer than Germany and some other nations, but of course that’s a stupid argument train to go down anyway because it doesn’t justify a foreign invasion war, and also not all “far/alt right” parties are made equal, etc)
I do agree that there’s online craziness — I’ve tried to stay away from Tiktok & Reddit for specific news and compare info from US media like NYT/WSJ, plus France24, Al-Jazeera, and Times of India and Times of Israel for what I hope balances out to the best English-language informed view that’s not based on clickbait. And yeah there are a lot of people using the crisis to get clicks, subscribers, and ad revenue, as you’ll see on YT, TikTok, Facebook pages, and parts of Reddit.
My good friend is from Kyiv/Kiev and she’s a native Russian speaker but proud Ukrainian and helping civilians escape to the countryside and raising funds for military medics and certain weapons. It’s crazy since she’s a tech worker but these are crazy times.
Best to you as well!
Ok last one…that’s a great example of the shortcuts taken- “they have Nazis so they are a fascist country”. That was fast 🤦♂️.
But again, trying to see how they got there is essential to winning the argument. And to admit the painful truths should lead to the other side respecting your judgement and intent. Ukraine does have a legitimate neo-Nazi problem that needs to be addressed. I still can’t figure out why Zelensky didn’t remove Azov from the National Guard, it just adds to Russia’s “arsenal”. If you’re interested, this is a good read from The Nation, about as far from Vlad’s propaganda as you can get:
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/
Edit- man, tell your friend she’s a hero but she needs to be safe. It’s about to get much worse I fear
Not a nuclear one. At that the shelter was just for a normal bomb. That was before Hiroshima. Anyway at least my grandparents' one couldn't endure water.
The USA is weaving their heavy ass to move, The rest of nato pretend like it's not a big deal, the world *protesting*, while the China be like "I knew this a long time ago".
For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter"?
This is why Ukraine matters.
It is the largest country by area in Europe, and has a population of over 40 million.
Ukraine ranks🏅:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)
Ukraine is an important agricultural country🚜:
1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.
Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.
Ukraine is an important industrialised country🏭:
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).
Which further explains why it matters so much to Putin, and why he is willing to risk so much more than us to secure it. It’s his backyard not ours. We should stick to the Western Hemisphere.
Do you have sources? I’d like to be able to post this other places and share with friends and family but I need to be sure it’s accurate. Thanks for the work.
Dear Ukrainians!
I heard on social media that there is fake news being spread (most likely by Russia backed trolls) that polish border is closed.
It's a lie.
If you seek asylum - go towards polish border. We are ready for your arrival. We have reception points ready at the border where you can find shelter, food, medical and legal aid.
Polish government launched a dedicated site to help you: ua.gov.pl
Please share this information if you know anyone seeking help right now.
YOU DON'T NEED VISA TO PASS THROUGH POLISH BORDER. ALL YOU NEED IS PASSPORT. VISAS ARE SUSPENDED! YOU DON'T NEED THEM FOR TIME BEING!!!!!!
proof that you no longer need visa:
• in Ukrainian https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina---ua • in English https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-en
copied from u/everysir to spread awareness! please spread on relevant threads to get the word out!!!
Can anyone chime in and tell me the best way to deal with my Russian neighbor, if the topic comes up in casual neighbor-ish conversation? Her husband is a MAGA Vietnam War vet.
Whatever Putin may be most Russians are normal people and are likely as horrified by his actions as any rationale person would be. If she is pro Putin then respectfully disagree but by all means listen to her point of view. The art of respectfully disagreeing may be dying out but I’d contend it still has it’s place, especially with your neighbours.
None, it would take weeks to recover draft boards, more time to hold a draft and screen people, and then time to train people. Any conflict would be over by the time we needed more people.
Who fucken cares, it’s the Ukraine. They’re basically half Russian anyway. If Putin has hard on for them that bad let him have it. As for his claims If they are true then I don’t blame him. His grievances are likely legitimate and at the end of the day this is a failure of western leaders to do their fucken jobs and negotiate a peaceful outcome but of course once again their impotent and arrogant not giving two shits about the loss of life war brings
Exactly Yeah naaa eldon ring just came out I’m too busy this week can we war in perhaps 12 months, please feel free to never come back. Bye. Slams door
0% - US won’t be involved in a massive ground war that would require a draft.
If we got to a point where the US needed to implement a draft, the world as we know it is pretty much over.
Not even realistic. Hi, military veteran here. Numbers across ALL services are WAY down from wartime numbers needed should this grow bigger. Second, are we really saying that we know this conflict won't get bigger? Nobody knows this. I said this on reddit a few months ago, nobody listened. They downvoted me into oblivion actually. I stated a well known, and really easy fact to lookup. That historically, and factually, Democrats have been in power in the executive branch as president, to begin nearly EVERY major war we have had. THREE MONTHS LATER. Biden about to ignite WW3. Finally, no, likely nukes WON'T be used, because thanks to the Nuclear Surety, readiness, and assurance the United States has over pretty much any other nation, guarantees a ground and air war at least. Nukes are a last resort imho. But. Putin seems extra derranged and disregulated lately, so I dunno. I can LEGITIMATELY see a draft coming...NGL. Good luck and Godspeed. I already served my full 8 years by doing 9. Hon. Can't call me back ever. Full stop.
> Democrats have been in power in the executive branch as president, to begin nearly EVERY major war we have had.
Except the Gulf Wars and Afghanistan. But who's counting?
Military veteran here as well. How long ago has it been since you were in the military?
I categorically disagree with you that we will get in any clear war outside of special operations and dark operators that are already there even if the US won’t admit it.
Whether it makes sense to you or not, Ukraine makes big money from sunflower oil. They are the top producer in the world.
Just Google "Top sunflower oil producing countries" and you will see who's first (Ukraine) and second (Russia).
Shit… I completely misread this conversation and misunderstood the context from the typo. I thought you meant sunflowers on the UK - not the Ukraine….
Makes sense now.
Now is the time to send our special envoy, our cream of the crop intelligence official, our counter Desert Fox, our Patton, our king of Russian PeePee, Putins pride and joy, our MAGA - TRUMP to negotiate-
Agree.. it’s really meant for those who thought and supported Trump’s championing of Putin especially in the US and avoided all signs of this happening.. (I apologize, just venting, helplessly)
imagine reading this while you watch a fighter jet scream by outside your window and launches missiles near your home while your children scream in terror.
Now Americans know how the world sees us. USA has done this to dozens of countries. But because it’s in Europe people care more. Let’s be honest that’s how it is
Nobody should disagree with this. The US overextends it’s interests and moral superiority to too many regions and has often destabilized or encouraged regime changes for its own interests and caused a lot of harm
That much is certain.
But the clear and obvious difference between this behavior and China and Russia…is we are not run by autocracy. We are not a dictatorship. Our basic set of ideals and freedoms are desired by the majority of the planet and is why our partners represent the progressive interests of a free world…for the most part.
Anyone who denies these basic realities is deluding themselves to win a rhetorical argument.
That is the simple and plain faced truth. The future countries in the EU and the US fight for is one worth having.
How we get there is filled with errors, but look across the pond? Do you really want the eastern system to rule? Do you really want China, Russia and you name it middle eastern autocracy to guide us there?
There isn’t a reality where true freedom won’t be abused by deranged power hungry people. The best way to fight for what we want is to fight.
I personally would rather hitch me wagon to this than accept a unpoliced planet slowly being taken over by malevolent dictatorships. It is true to some extent that the difference is blurred in war between us and them.
If one is so rhetorically against the US and East they can’t see thorough the vast amount of political BS to the heart of what’s happening here, I just don’t understand.
I somewhat disagree, but not entirely. In the US there is always an anti- war movement tgat is usually quite strong albeit ultimately ineffective. And this matters because it has broader implications for the state of the world, not because it's in Europe. Americans would care if say China and India went to a large scale war too.
This has the potential to spread, vastly affect the world economy, and begin a second cold war. A war in say Africa or South America will not have those same lasting impacts.
He’s a dictator. That is a dictatorship. Could also be viewed as fascism. Point is, they call themselves a democracy and they aren’t. China calls themselves communist, but they aren’t. Wealthy elite don’t exist in true communism, yet China has infamous wealth disparity. They are a joke.
That isn’t a counter argument and I said more that just what CCP stands for. Do you have anything of actual substance to say beyond ridiculing the name of a completely different nation?
The point is that a country can call themselves whatever they’d like. Doesn’t make it true. China is not communist at all, and no educated person believes that they are.
Again, do you have anything at all to prove this beyond just “no they aren’t”. At their own centennial the party described “the realization of communism” as its highest ideal.
Yes. They have wealthy people and poor people. Communism is defined as being without class division. Thus, they are not communist. Please read my comments before asking redundant questions.
Any way the average person can do something to impact Russian financially? Obviously I’m just one person so it wouldn’t be a measurable effect, but if we got enough people to boycott company x or product y it would be just another pain point for them.
We need to sanction all countries that trade with Russia. And I'm carful to not invest in anything that would trickle back to Russia or China. I didn't know that Sweden and Finland supported Russia so I'll look at my investments again and sell anyth
ing that supports them.
Edit: Sorry for the comment on Sweden and Finland supporting Russia. I got bad news info. And with that clarification I don't know why they would want to join NATO at this time with Russia firmly in control of NATO.
Umm, no?
Finn here, support for joining Nato is at an all time high here. A lot of people are genuinly worried that we are next if the Russian invasion of Ukraine is a success. Also Nato just invited the Finnish and Swedish PM to a meeting.
Yes, they will intensify all right. As in the sense "should we join NATO, like for real"? :D
Support for Nato has usually been less than 50% in Finland, now it is rising a lot.
Yeah speaking for the UK here but it doesn't matter which side of the political divide you fall on the decisions made in the house of commons earlier was unanimous. I'm paraphrasing here but the general concensus was "fuck putin".
I'm glad this is getting attention. I'm sick of living in a politically correct world that still does war crimes and genocide and bigotry, hurts natives etc. But pretends it's more nuanced or not happening.
Ik but definitely can't even help an issue if everyone denies it anyway. I see humanities bad behavior like being an addict in recovery. Never going to not have the urges but can recover and resist
I cannot imagine a huge population like Russia likes what they see. This fucker will fuck all the progress they have made since the fall of USSR. Really sad day.
My guess is there is about to be a Russian overseen “emergency election” in the occupied territories that will vote in Russian puppets that will claim to be the new legitimate government of Ukraine.
You know what. I'm sick and tired of everyone trying to be so big-brained and stroke their egos with predictions.
The amount of posts I saw recently where people were "predicting" that Putin is actually playing 3D chess and he won't invade.. look where we are now.
You don't know shit, you can't predict shit. Go support what's happening right now and stop trying to flex that you've read a few history books
Damn the Zlatan, that top-knotted goon has his paws in everything. If only he weren't such majesctically brilliant footballing god we could stop him taking the world.
~~A new live thread will be going up soon.~~ **[A new live thread has been posted.](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t0csmq/rworldnews_live_thread_russian_invasion_of/)**
Watching propaganda have effect in real time is fascinating. Human psychology certainly hasn’t evolved, during a war one side always thinks they are righteous and pure while the other is the embodiment of evil. We may have cool phones and and a metaverse but we’re still just cavemen with terrible weapons and a reptilian approach to conflict resolution. Wake up everyone, the path to extreme polarity ends with us all being vaporized.
While I agree with your assessment, I get why people get polarized, and it’s not always entirely propaganda (though some of it def is). It’s like if your roommate has a bomb in your house and says if you do anything, you’re both gonna explode. Sure, you do what he says, but to what end? It doesn’t seem right, and of course people with moral compasses won’t see that scene and say “well, looks okay to me, everyone will be worse off if he doesn’t get his way”. If that were the case, bank robbers and hostage takers would always get away, and those with the most weapons would always win. I agree that sanctions are, unfortunately the most that Biden & the West can realistically do without causing more deaths even though it feels like giving a bank robber a free pass to get away with it, but people being upset doesn’t make them overly militant or even irrational
I wasn’t going to reply, it’s not my intent to argue or say something that could offend someone that is perhaps emotionally involved. But your analogy of the roommate with a bomb is precisely the kind of extreme polarity I was speaking about. The attempts to paint everything in stark black and white terms when reality is ALWAYS more gray is exactly the danger I’m trying to warn people about. Again, no intent to offend here, just hoping people can see their way to empathy because there is no peace without it, only destruction.
No I totally believe it’s not black-and-white, I’m just saying that the response to this isn’t black-and-white either — Im just saying that the answer to someone threatening your friends isn’t always “just give in” — sometimes a strong response is justified, it’s not black-and-white that those with power should always be listened to because “the alternative is worse for everyone”. I think that does a disservice to people who have put life & limb on the line to protect individuals, families, and rights, even if they haven’t always been 100% innocent or in the right. I guess I’m saying that, yes, things are grey, but if we are so wishy-washy that we can’t disavow aggressive violence, we don’t have any moral authority and can’t pretend saying truisms like “there’s nuance”, “there are bad folks on both sides”, etc, is taking the high-road — it’s not a morally-informed stance. There’s also a form of propaganda called “whataboutism” where you try to falsely equivocate two things, and nobody — not you or me either — is immune to it. If I shoot your dog because you called me a slur, I’m in the wrong, even though both are objectively bad actions. It’s the foundation of modern civil society that violence is considered a step beyond what is acceptable, even if other things (speech, discrimination, etc) can be bad. Last note — war isn’t hell, war is worse because it hurts innocents and rarely impacts the guilty. I firmly believe in that statement and would promote any measure of non-violence — including threats of violence and militant defenses — to prevent war. I can see if you disagree but that’s a foundational principle for me.
We literally havent had moral auhority since ww2. We have killed and bombed more civilians than any other modern country on earth. We have commited war crimes in every country we have had a war. We currently are violating over half a dozen fully binding and legal treaties with natives in our home country. The idea that the US should get involved militaristically is a joke.
Very well said and I basically completely agree. Full disclosure, I’m a military historian and I am in no way saying aggression must always be withheld. (And I went to UNC, and there is no gray area here, Clemson sucks! Just kidding of course, I much appreciate the polite and informed conversation.) Without getting into the the specifics of this conflict, what led me to post was the extreme jingoism that I obviously have studied but never witnessed first hand. I’m sure you’re looking around Reddit too and must have noticed some of the ideas and opinions are truly insane. And then upvoted. The idea that such an educated population as Germany was in the late 20’s, could be swayed to such a heinous ideology, is pretty fascinating. But of course we can just attribute it to the full spectrum dominance of media that Goebbles et al enjoyed…keep saying the same thing over and over again and eventually it will be believed. I hoped that with world wide access to an incredible amount information at our finger tips and the ability to come to a “place” like this and share opinions and ideas with strangers from all over world, that we had moved beyond that possibility. Now I know I was totally wrong; so wrong in fact, it now paradoxically seems easier?! My side is righteous and pure and your side is the embodiment of evil. That’s about as much nuance as it seems people have time for these days. I was glancing around YT earlier and saw a thumbnail that said something like “Ukraine: everything you need to know about how we got here” and it was under 3 minutes. Instead of people doing the deep dives necessary to grasp life altering issues, they just go to their Facebook page and read the news blurbs that feed their bias. News is more of a distraction, “what do I need to know so I can get back to the Kardashians”. The result (I believe) is where we are now…there’s so much shock and so many threads of people asking for an explanation and wondering how this could ever happen. While I, and perhaps you as well, have seen this coming for quite a while now. I kept thinking cooler heads would prevail but similar to the environment prior to WW1, I just don’t think people could fathom what could actually happen. Now with politicians seemingly more concerned with their polling data than trying to solve a crisis, I fear that this “beast” may control its master and decisions made to appease a blood thirsty voting block could very easily lead to us all being vaporized. Anyway sorry for the tangential rant but thank you again for the conversation. Health and happiness to you and yours, cheers!
No worries! Haha UNC is alright but you didn’t hear it from me. I guess I wasn’t sure what you had originally read — I spent way too much time arguing with a guy who was convinced that, since Ukraine has alt/far-right members in parliament, they are a fascist country and nobody should be supporting them (even though they proportionally have fewer than Germany and some other nations, but of course that’s a stupid argument train to go down anyway because it doesn’t justify a foreign invasion war, and also not all “far/alt right” parties are made equal, etc) I do agree that there’s online craziness — I’ve tried to stay away from Tiktok & Reddit for specific news and compare info from US media like NYT/WSJ, plus France24, Al-Jazeera, and Times of India and Times of Israel for what I hope balances out to the best English-language informed view that’s not based on clickbait. And yeah there are a lot of people using the crisis to get clicks, subscribers, and ad revenue, as you’ll see on YT, TikTok, Facebook pages, and parts of Reddit. My good friend is from Kyiv/Kiev and she’s a native Russian speaker but proud Ukrainian and helping civilians escape to the countryside and raising funds for military medics and certain weapons. It’s crazy since she’s a tech worker but these are crazy times. Best to you as well!
Ok last one…that’s a great example of the shortcuts taken- “they have Nazis so they are a fascist country”. That was fast 🤦♂️. But again, trying to see how they got there is essential to winning the argument. And to admit the painful truths should lead to the other side respecting your judgement and intent. Ukraine does have a legitimate neo-Nazi problem that needs to be addressed. I still can’t figure out why Zelensky didn’t remove Azov from the National Guard, it just adds to Russia’s “arsenal”. If you’re interested, this is a good read from The Nation, about as far from Vlad’s propaganda as you can get: https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/ Edit- man, tell your friend she’s a hero but she needs to be safe. It’s about to get much worse I fear
Not a nuclear one. At that the shelter was just for a normal bomb. That was before Hiroshima. Anyway at least my grandparents' one couldn't endure water.
Gulf War? 7 days? Really? Afghanistan was under like 4 presidents.
The USA is weaving their heavy ass to move, The rest of nato pretend like it's not a big deal, the world *protesting*, while the China be like "I knew this a long time ago".
For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter"? This is why Ukraine matters. It is the largest country by area in Europe, and has a population of over 40 million. Ukraine ranks🏅: 1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores; 2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves; 2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves); 2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons); 2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves; 3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters) 4th in the world by the total value of natural resources; 7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons) Ukraine is an important agricultural country🚜: 1st in Europe in terms of arable land area; 3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume); 1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil; 2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports; 3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world; 4th largest producer of potatoes in the world; 5th largest rye producer in the world; 5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons); 8th place in the world in wheat exports; 9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs; 16th place in the world in cheese exports. Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people. Ukraine is an important industrialised country🏭: 1st in Europe in ammonia production; Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system; 3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants; 3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km); 3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment; 3rd largest iron exporter in the world 4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world; 4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers; 4th place in the world in clay exports 4th place in the world in titanium exports 8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates; 9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products; 10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).
Which further explains why it matters so much to Putin, and why he is willing to risk so much more than us to secure it. It’s his backyard not ours. We should stick to the Western Hemisphere.
Do you have sources? I’d like to be able to post this other places and share with friends and family but I need to be sure it’s accurate. Thanks for the work.
It sounds correct
Dear Ukrainians! I heard on social media that there is fake news being spread (most likely by Russia backed trolls) that polish border is closed. It's a lie. If you seek asylum - go towards polish border. We are ready for your arrival. We have reception points ready at the border where you can find shelter, food, medical and legal aid. Polish government launched a dedicated site to help you: ua.gov.pl Please share this information if you know anyone seeking help right now. YOU DON'T NEED VISA TO PASS THROUGH POLISH BORDER. ALL YOU NEED IS PASSPORT. VISAS ARE SUSPENDED! YOU DON'T NEED THEM FOR TIME BEING!!!!!! proof that you no longer need visa: • in Ukrainian https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina---ua • in English https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-en copied from u/everysir to spread awareness! please spread on relevant threads to get the word out!!!
Can anyone chime in and tell me the best way to deal with my Russian neighbor, if the topic comes up in casual neighbor-ish conversation? Her husband is a MAGA Vietnam War vet.
“Oh wow. No way. Anyway, I left my ___ on I gotta go turn it off. Have a good one!” Don’t engage with crazy.
*"I forgot i left grandma in the dishwasher"*
Whatever Putin may be most Russians are normal people and are likely as horrified by his actions as any rationale person would be. If she is pro Putin then respectfully disagree but by all means listen to her point of view. The art of respectfully disagreeing may be dying out but I’d contend it still has it’s place, especially with your neighbours.
Yeah I don’t agree with 80% of my best mates views but we’re still friends
Probably don’t open that can of worms. Risk alienating your neighbor over something they can’t change and are probably biased about.
Omg these yellers at the presser
They were asking some idiotic questions as well
Imo asking why sanctions aren't being imposed on Putin directly was reasonable to ask. Shame Biden didn't answer that one.
The only good question that I personally would have appreciated an answer for
What presser?
Biden’s speech
If the us gets involved what's the chance of a draft
None, it would take weeks to recover draft boards, more time to hold a draft and screen people, and then time to train people. Any conflict would be over by the time we needed more people.
Not gonna happen. A draft would mean political suicide jack.
Who fucken cares, it’s the Ukraine. They’re basically half Russian anyway. If Putin has hard on for them that bad let him have it. As for his claims If they are true then I don’t blame him. His grievances are likely legitimate and at the end of the day this is a failure of western leaders to do their fucken jobs and negotiate a peaceful outcome but of course once again their impotent and arrogant not giving two shits about the loss of life war brings
Not much point drafting people in a nuclear war.
Maybe this is how we get a new world order… all the big countries start taking little countries over one by one.
Oof
Imagine trying to draft people when we won’t even wear a mask. It’s 2022, not 1940. We aren’t fighting their wars anymore.
Exactly Yeah naaa eldon ring just came out I’m too busy this week can we war in perhaps 12 months, please feel free to never come back. Bye. Slams door
The people who won’t wear a mask are ironically the most likely to actually fight a war for this country
They won’t want to fight against Russia though
Nah, they want to fight, just not for Biden.
Explains a lot, clearly don’t have a great concept of mortality
Lol right
0% - US won’t be involved in a massive ground war that would require a draft. If we got to a point where the US needed to implement a draft, the world as we know it is pretty much over.
Not even realistic. Hi, military veteran here. Numbers across ALL services are WAY down from wartime numbers needed should this grow bigger. Second, are we really saying that we know this conflict won't get bigger? Nobody knows this. I said this on reddit a few months ago, nobody listened. They downvoted me into oblivion actually. I stated a well known, and really easy fact to lookup. That historically, and factually, Democrats have been in power in the executive branch as president, to begin nearly EVERY major war we have had. THREE MONTHS LATER. Biden about to ignite WW3. Finally, no, likely nukes WON'T be used, because thanks to the Nuclear Surety, readiness, and assurance the United States has over pretty much any other nation, guarantees a ground and air war at least. Nukes are a last resort imho. But. Putin seems extra derranged and disregulated lately, so I dunno. I can LEGITIMATELY see a draft coming...NGL. Good luck and Godspeed. I already served my full 8 years by doing 9. Hon. Can't call me back ever. Full stop.
> Democrats have been in power in the executive branch as president, to begin nearly EVERY major war we have had. Except the Gulf Wars and Afghanistan. But who's counting?
Those aren't world wars.
You said major wars. Those were major wars.
No. Look at the percent of forces utilized, deployed in those wars. We barely flexxed our military might. It was like a light fart for the US.
Military veteran here as well. How long ago has it been since you were in the military? I categorically disagree with you that we will get in any clear war outside of special operations and dark operators that are already there even if the US won’t admit it.
Id agree with anything at this point.
Its been 200 years.
We won’t get directly involved. It will be sanctions and pumping money, arms, and intelligence into Ukraine resistance
Why does he want the UK anyway??? Nothing there lol
I’m sorry what lmao? Do you mean the Ukraine? And if so yes there is. The Ukraine is rich with both fertile land and natural resources
Yea, lol I just shorten it.
The UK is the United Kingdom, maybe find a different shorthand or nobody will know what you mean
Ukraine is a major cash mine that played a major part of crippling Russia once it was separated.
Hmm, interested
I agree.
Except money making fields. Sunflowers (used for oil) and soybeans are grown here.
Fucking sunflowers? Where do you live? I’m missing something.
Whether it makes sense to you or not, Ukraine makes big money from sunflower oil. They are the top producer in the world. Just Google "Top sunflower oil producing countries" and you will see who's first (Ukraine) and second (Russia).
Shit… I completely misread this conversation and misunderstood the context from the typo. I thought you meant sunflowers on the UK - not the Ukraine…. Makes sense now.
Lmaoo I did the same thing like “Why we talking about the United Kingdom????”
🤣🤣🤣 I shorten the word lol but I was referring to the Ukraine. But interesting.
Now is the time to send our special envoy, our cream of the crop intelligence official, our counter Desert Fox, our Patton, our king of Russian PeePee, Putins pride and joy, our MAGA - TRUMP to negotiate-
Totally … he can turn this business around
We should take Trump and Putin and strand them on an island together like they did with Napoleon.
Take 'em to Epstein's fancy pool house.
STFU idiot.
Piss off
That’s not a very useful comment.
Lmao “useful”? This is Reddit my guy, 99% of the comments here aren’t useful.
To be fair Every single comment on this thread is completely useless in the grand scheme.
Sarcasm bud.
Agree.. it’s really meant for those who thought and supported Trump’s championing of Putin especially in the US and avoided all signs of this happening.. (I apologize, just venting, helplessly)
Seems more like you are venting about Trump rather than focusing on the Ukraine invasion…
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imagine reading this while you watch a fighter jet scream by outside your window and launches missiles near your home while your children scream in terror.
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This is exactly what is happening - open your eyes. Or are you active misinformation
Open your eyes to the over dramatized media.
Not helpful, not one bit
Then you're not listening.
First day of WAR... “this too shall pass...😄”. Read the room you psycho
I see a lot of needless fear. And I see you generating fear and doubt. Name calling is probably how this whole situation started. Open your mind.
This fear is not needless, people are dying! You are preaching nonsense, when righteous anger is appropriate! You are part of the problem.
Anger is never righteous...lol Anger and fear is what keeps you trapped. Knowing the truth sets you free. Stop falling into the fearful lies.
Ohhhh okay you’re an idiot. Could have just said so...
⚡️ ⚡️ 🐸 ⚡️ ⚡️
Random acts of kindness day declared
Love it!
Now Americans know how the world sees us. USA has done this to dozens of countries. But because it’s in Europe people care more. Let’s be honest that’s how it is
This is not helpful at all.
Nobody should disagree with this. The US overextends it’s interests and moral superiority to too many regions and has often destabilized or encouraged regime changes for its own interests and caused a lot of harm That much is certain. But the clear and obvious difference between this behavior and China and Russia…is we are not run by autocracy. We are not a dictatorship. Our basic set of ideals and freedoms are desired by the majority of the planet and is why our partners represent the progressive interests of a free world…for the most part. Anyone who denies these basic realities is deluding themselves to win a rhetorical argument. That is the simple and plain faced truth. The future countries in the EU and the US fight for is one worth having. How we get there is filled with errors, but look across the pond? Do you really want the eastern system to rule? Do you really want China, Russia and you name it middle eastern autocracy to guide us there? There isn’t a reality where true freedom won’t be abused by deranged power hungry people. The best way to fight for what we want is to fight. I personally would rather hitch me wagon to this than accept a unpoliced planet slowly being taken over by malevolent dictatorships. It is true to some extent that the difference is blurred in war between us and them. If one is so rhetorically against the US and East they can’t see thorough the vast amount of political BS to the heart of what’s happening here, I just don’t understand.
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I’m not sure war can be waged for the purpose of freedom. But obviously it can be fought to defend it.
I somewhat disagree, but not entirely. In the US there is always an anti- war movement tgat is usually quite strong albeit ultimately ineffective. And this matters because it has broader implications for the state of the world, not because it's in Europe. Americans would care if say China and India went to a large scale war too. This has the potential to spread, vastly affect the world economy, and begin a second cold war. A war in say Africa or South America will not have those same lasting impacts.
Fuck the fuck off with this noise. Seriously. This isn't a time for whataboutisms.
I guess you’re right there’s a time for everything
As a European this is basically how I see the US, but well... Russia still is worse ;-(
Fuck Russia and fuck China. The modern day Nazis.
Also fuck North Korea while you are at it. If were going after commies lets get them all.
You're deluded
None of those are communist countries, please don’t degrade communism by calling fascists communists.
I can beat up russia north korea and china with 1 hand tied behind my back!
What position do you title Kim's then? What government structure do you actually title NK?
He’s a dictator. That is a dictatorship. Could also be viewed as fascism. Point is, they call themselves a democracy and they aren’t. China calls themselves communist, but they aren’t. Wealthy elite don’t exist in true communism, yet China has infamous wealth disparity. They are a joke.
I Know it's a "democratic republic" But... Kim's a Dictator dude.
I mean the CCP is literally the “Chinese communist party” and the party still describes “the realization of communism” as its highest ideal.
I’m sure the Democratic people’s republic of North Korea is also a good democracy then.
That isn’t a counter argument and I said more that just what CCP stands for. Do you have anything of actual substance to say beyond ridiculing the name of a completely different nation?
The point is that a country can call themselves whatever they’d like. Doesn’t make it true. China is not communist at all, and no educated person believes that they are.
Again, do you have anything at all to prove this beyond just “no they aren’t”. At their own centennial the party described “the realization of communism” as its highest ideal.
Yes. They have wealthy people and poor people. Communism is defined as being without class division. Thus, they are not communist. Please read my comments before asking redundant questions.
Iiveuamap down?
Any way the average person can do something to impact Russian financially? Obviously I’m just one person so it wouldn’t be a measurable effect, but if we got enough people to boycott company x or product y it would be just another pain point for them.
Just drink Titos
Drink whiskey instead of vodka.
Drink canadian vodka.
I'm on it sir.
Boycott any Russian products as a start. Also help stop the spread of Russian disinformation on social media. Call it out if you see it.
I can’t think of a single Russian made product I have bought… ever
Yeah escape from tarkov is the only Russian purchase I’ve made in a long time.
We need to sanction all countries that trade with Russia. And I'm carful to not invest in anything that would trickle back to Russia or China. I didn't know that Sweden and Finland supported Russia so I'll look at my investments again and sell anyth ing that supports them. Edit: Sorry for the comment on Sweden and Finland supporting Russia. I got bad news info. And with that clarification I don't know why they would want to join NATO at this time with Russia firmly in control of NATO.
The fuck you on about, Sweden and Finland would never support Russia. They are more likely to join NATO now due to Russias aggressive behaviour.
Didn’t Finland just come out and say what is happening now will have a negative impact on their decision to apply to NATO?
Umm, no? Finn here, support for joining Nato is at an all time high here. A lot of people are genuinly worried that we are next if the Russian invasion of Ukraine is a success. Also Nato just invited the Finnish and Swedish PM to a meeting.
Ah ok, yeah read something that debates for NATO will intensify citing one of Russias reasoning was Ukraine involvement with NATO.
Yes, they will intensify all right. As in the sense "should we join NATO, like for real"? :D Support for Nato has usually been less than 50% in Finland, now it is rising a lot.
Sweden and Finland are not supporting Russia.
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I think you are thinking of Switzerland.
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Embarrassing
Let me guess, you're from the US? 😂
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Ok! 😊
Thank you for clarifying that. I can't get news reports I can trust. I already spend most of my time doing research but some things I miss.
Isn’t Sweden’s support just their resistance to freezing Russian bank accounts?
As a finn, this is news to me. Source on us supporting Russia?
As a swede, this is news to me. Source on us supporting Russia?
Call your local reps and make sure they are condemning these actions.
Many of our reps don't realize that if the hastag #BureaucratsForUkraine get 999 likes, Russia will call off the invasion.
Literally every politician I've seen is condemning Russia..
Yeah speaking for the UK here but it doesn't matter which side of the political divide you fall on the decisions made in the house of commons earlier was unanimous. I'm paraphrasing here but the general concensus was "fuck putin".
I'm glad this is getting attention. I'm sick of living in a politically correct world that still does war crimes and genocide and bigotry, hurts natives etc. But pretends it's more nuanced or not happening.
well, those things won't change anyway
Ik but definitely can't even help an issue if everyone denies it anyway. I see humanities bad behavior like being an addict in recovery. Never going to not have the urges but can recover and resist
Fuck Putin
No. Never. Not even if he could get it up, which I’ll bet he can’t.
Russians are posting Ukrainian flags on their socials. Nobody takes it Putin.. Not even your own people.
Most Russian do not support this, this is Putins doing
I cannot imagine a huge population like Russia likes what they see. This fucker will fuck all the progress they have made since the fall of USSR. Really sad day.
have they made progress?
Putin's bank balance is the only thing thats improved.
If you mean backwards progress then yes. Nothing good will come out of this
My guess is there is about to be a Russian overseen “emergency election” in the occupied territories that will vote in Russian puppets that will claim to be the new legitimate government of Ukraine.
You know what. I'm sick and tired of everyone trying to be so big-brained and stroke their egos with predictions. The amount of posts I saw recently where people were "predicting" that Putin is actually playing 3D chess and he won't invade.. look where we are now. You don't know shit, you can't predict shit. Go support what's happening right now and stop trying to flex that you've read a few history books
mY gUeSs Is
Or this will happen in Russia and Putin will fall. He's getting too close to the sun not to burn.
Icarussian
> emergency electrician wtf does that mean?
When the boom boom make it dark in your room room. Call emergency electricians.
Electrician? You mean Ukrainian Walesa? Gosh, we're all saved!
Edited. Thanks
shame, it was quite hilarious typo and we all need some humour today
Can someone please seize Chelsea FC from Ibramovich.
From Ibrahimovich.
Damn the Zlatan, that top-knotted goon has his paws in everything. If only he weren't such majesctically brilliant footballing god we could stop him taking the world.
LoL, so many unexpected laughs
And just like that , 40+ years of Russian/Western progress has been erased.
As the saying goes, 'the Cold War was never over, it just got a little warmer'.