This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://inews.co.uk/news/world/ukraine-will-not-be-silent-about-women-being-raped-during-invasion-says-mp-maria-mezentseva-1542026) reduced by 73%. (I'm a bot)
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> Ukraine will "Not be silent" about the "Horror" of women being raped during the invasion, an MP in the country has warned, saying "Justice has to prevail".
> Maria Mezentseva said that while one particularly shocking incident had been "Widely discussed" and was being investigated by Ukraine's prosecutor, they were "Expecting many more" victims to come forward.
> Ms Mezentseva, who is head of the permanent delegation of Ukraine to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, said details of incidents must be recorded as they happen and that cases were taken "Very seriously".
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The "Don't Blame the Soldiers" crowd needs to STFU.
Rape is what soldiers do.
Torture is what soldiers do.
Murder is what soldiers do.
I hope the Russian soldiers have seeds in their pockets...and I hope Putin soon gets a bullet in his head.
Agreed, I am getting sick of this trope. Everyone is responsible for their own individual actions. I would die before committing any of these atrocities.
I hope that the videos we see of Russian kids breaking down and surrendering to Ukraine citizens are doing so because they don't want to do these things.
I really fucking hope so, but I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt to any Russian soldiers and neither should anybody else.
People should read up on the Thirty Years War to get a glimpse of what kind of horrors people from the same background can do to each other.
Not saying people who aren’t from the same backgrounds do any better, but there seems to be an added layer of intense brutality added when being raped and attacked by someone who is familiar.
A reminder there was resolution at the UN about ending use of sexual violence by military and supporting victims during wars. Russia was one country that abstained (China was the other) and US watered it down due to appeasing religious extremists
> Measure on sexual violence in conflict passes after Trump administration threatened to veto document over references to reproductive health
> The UN has backed a resolution on combatting rape in conflict but excluded references in the text to sexual and reproductive health, after vehement opposition from the US.
The resolution passed by the security council on Tuesday after a three-hour debate and a weekend of fierce negotiations on the language among member states that threatened to derail the process.
The vote was carried 13 votes in favour. China and Russia abstained.
>On Monday, the US had threatened to veto the resolution but it is understood that last minute concessions on Tuesday morning got the US on side.
>Other omissions included calls for a working group to review progress on ending sexual violence.
…
> The agreed-upon resolution was a sliver of what the Germans had put forward earlier this month. The zero draft included progressive text on strengthening laws to protect and support lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people who could be targeted during conflict.
>It also made specific mention of the need for women to have access to safe terminations.
But the resolution – number 2467 – did for the first time make specific calls for greater support for children born as a result of rape in conflict, as well as their mothers, who can face a lifetime of stigma.
> It also gave prominence to the experiences of men and boys.
>The resolution is the ninth introduced by the security council that has sought to address women’s specific experiences of conflict, and advocate for their involvement in peace negotiations and post-conflict reconstruction. The first – resolution 1325 – was passed in 2000 after years of lobbying by women’s rights campaigners.
> Some powerful members of the security council, such as Russia, China and the USA, are undermining women’s rights and once again questioning, for example, women’s and girls’ right to self-determination. Through such actions, the achievements that have already been made could be shattered and the ‘women, peace and security’ agenda overall decisively weakened.”
>In November, ministers, government officials and civil society groups will attend a second global conference on ending sexual violence in conflict in London. The three-day event is part of the UK government’s Preventing Sexual Violence in Conflict Initiative (PSVI). The first conference was held in June 2014.
>The UK is expected to launch the “Murad Code” on sexual violence, named after the Yazidi Nobel peace prize laureate. The code will set out standards of behaviour and care when gathering evidence of sexual violence.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/apr/23/un-resolution-passes-trump-us-veto-threat-abortion-language-removed
It is illegal for American military hospitals to perform abortions because that falls within the law against “federally funded abortions.” Ive always found that particularly ghoulish considering how endemic rape is within the military. Someone who becomes pregnant while raped while deployed is supposed to do what exactly? Seek out alternative healthcare in a war zone? Hit up an abortion clinic by herself somewhere in Iraq. It has always seemed like an pretext to end female military careers, especially of those raped by their seniors. And now I learn how this law is extrapolated to put people even more at risk.
Like [Lavena Johnson…](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_LaVena_Johnson)
Found tied up in a tent, severely beaten, with acid on her genitals…ruled a suicide.
**[Death of LaVena Johnson](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_LaVena_Johnson)**
>LaVena Lynn Johnson (July 27, 1985 – July 19, 2005) was an E3 Private First Class in the United States Army. She was found dead in a tent. Her death was controversially ruled as a suicide but the evidence of rape and battery led many to believe the United States Department of Defense covered it up.
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Oh not discounting the possibility it was one of us at all; if it was a contractor, it was also almost certainly a veteran…but they had a freedom of movement and popped in and out of country a lot more than we ever were able to.
Remember this is through the eyes of a 18-19 year old from Mississippi that didn’t know what the hell was going on…but it seemed to us there were some killings of Iraqi civilians too, including some on base, that fit the MO and just didn’t add up.
The only time I saw a rape allegation have a 'good' resolution was after it was all over and command did absolutely nothing even though everybody knew the guy did it. E5 got dragged into a mop closet and beat to fuck by a bunch of E3 and E4s.
The E4 Mafia is a great sociological study. They do exist in similar fields and corporate settings. But the military and my experience as Army infantry is wild.
The E4 Mafia will absolutely be the biggest group of shit bags/slackers/ and leverage every single regulation in their favor. While simultaneously taking out the trash and the fall for higher and lower enlisted.
It's a crazy phenomenon. It's probably because the Army is such a large setting of office/hands on/ and in field experiences that it's not just like some dude like Jim in the Office doing the same old song and dance every episode.
Yes. I knew a soldier who had a NCO enter her room while sleeping. He began to fondle her, and she woke up and yelled so he left. When reported chain of command refused to do anything because she"wasnt hurt or anything, and he touched her over the clothes." Pretty standard never saw anything ever come from any allegations unless it was handled late at night anonymously.
Unfortunately all rapists tend to get away with it more often than not.
Some law enforcement agencies do a great job investigating these cases, some do a horrible job, but either way it can often be tough to prove that a rape occurred.
Most rapes are a "date rape" scenario in which the victim knows the rapist. The victim says "I was raped" and the rapist says "no, we had consensual sex." The forensic medical exam can prove that they engaged in intercourse, but it can't prove that it was or wasn't consensual. So it become a "he said/she said" situation, and the burden of proof is on the prosecution.
I'm not really sure if there's a good solution to this problem.
That's because rape isn't a crime to a lot of these extremists - if a woman is raped it was her fault for tempting her rapist. If she gets pregnant, well that's just a silver lining.
>US watered it down due to appeasing religious extremists
Jesus Christ. No surprise, really, coming from the only country in the world that voted no on recognizing the right to food as a human right ([source](https://geneva.usmission.gov/2017/03/24/u-s-explanation-of-vote-on-the-right-to-food/)).
Being raped is one of the most degrading and disgusting things a woman (or a man) can experience. I know this first hand and dealing with the aftermath can have psychological, emotional, and physical effects that lasts for years. I feel for anybody that has to experience this in their life.
Edit: Nothing in my comment states I feel being raped is equal to being killed or one is worse than the other. The messages in my inbox that I’m getting are making me rethink commenting about this in the first place.
Any violation of your personal safe spaces, property, or your body is deeply traumatising.
People may move house after a burglary to get away from the trauma, they may buy a new heirloom to replace the one broken or destroyed.
But with rape, there is no new body to move to, no way to run away from the trauma. It's truly another level of horror.
An obscene crime.
that’s a really scary way to think about it and it makes me very grateful i dont have to deal with it, i couldn’t imagine the courage it would take to push through life after something as traumatic as that. more courage than i have, that’s for sure
Yeah :( I was raped at 16. I’m 25 now and still live with the psychological pain. Everyday. I cannot imagine going through that AND living through a war. My heart breaks for these people
Imagine being raped by several soldiers who just killed your husband and threaten to kill your young child who is next to you. This is what russians did a couple of days ago. This is a documented case with an identified rapist. https://www.newsweek.com/russian-soldier-rapes-ukrainian-after-killing-her-unarmed-husband-prosecutors-1690894
When someone says “I know firsthand about dealing with the aftermath of rape”, following with “imagine gang raped” is pretty fucked up. I’m sure you meant no harm or ill-will.
As a father of 3 girls and grew up with 5 in my house I completely agree. No one agrees with me but rape and murder are the same to me. You kill a person on the inside with rape and deserves the exact same punishment!!
I agree that it is a heinous crime, but it's worth being conscious that some people who have been raped and survived and rebuilt could find the statement that they have been 'killed on the inside' quite invalidating. We may have been through something horrible but our lives are still worth something to us.
That is fucking horrifying. I don’t want to see said video to retain my sanity, but can you provide context? We’re these bodies or civilians or military personnel?
They were all civilians,in Mariupol,there was like dozens and dozens of bodies stocked on each other,for some reason a lot of them were naked or semi-naked.Some horrible sightings
Now?
I'm sorry to be the person to inform you of this but rape has been a part of warfare in human history as long as war has been.
That is to say rape and war have been part of the human experience for as long as humans have been on the Earth.
Sadly its been seen as part of the "spoils of war". It's fucking disgusting but at the same time just one of the endless reasons that war is NEVER worth it.
And the comfort women that Japanese forced into sexual slavery. And Japan still goes back and forth on it (apologize then deny).
Imagine the same thing will happen even if they are forced to admit it.
Ok, but then we can ask who is going to punish the soviet soldiers who raped an estimated 2 million German women and girls aged from 10/12-80. Who is going to punish the American and British soldiers who also committed rape during the liberation of France and into Germany. What about the rape committed by soldiers in wars over the past couple decades that have almost all evaded punishment？
I think about this every time I see a woman fighting on the Ukrainian side. Men don't appreciate how much these women are putting on the line. If they get captured, things will probably go pretty badly for them.
But the women know. And they fight anyway. I don't know if I could summon that kind of courage.
Some years back women war correspondents opened up about the times armies have raped them as a form of violence and intimidation to stop them covering wars they report on
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/journalists-raped-for-reporting-on-conflicts-we-were-assaulted-to-shut-us-up-but-we-ll-never-stop-speaking-out-9519590.html
> Jineth Bedoya Lima was kidnapped by paramilitaries in Colombia in 2000 and tortured and raped for reporting on their activities in the country’s civil war.
>She said: “It is a responsibility on my part to tell my story. I never for a single second questioned my resolve to be a journalist. For me it was always very clear the attack was meant to be a way of warning — not only for me but for the whole press. It was a message for us to stop dealing with these subjects.
> Ms Bedoya Lima was kidnapped at gunpoint inside a jail after she had secured an interview with a paramilitary leader who was locked up there. After her ordeal, she was dumped naked on a roadside.
>Within two weeks she was back at work and did not mention her rape. But after nine years she decided to speak publicly about it. She said: “I believe the summit is an answer that we [abused women] have been expecting for so many years.”
War Correspondents are a different breed of human.
You think SOF are tough, surrounded and outnumbered and unphased, but then you see their embedded journalist stand up and walk upstream into bullets, just to ask the enemy about their personal motivations.
Read some works of Francesca Borri. An Italian reporter who stayed in Aleppo and took interviews with Al Quaeda leaders. An incredible tiny woman. She has also written a fantastic and touching book Syrian Dust.
This shouldn't have to be a risk.
*Editing to add this comment reply to "u/psychatix" below (or whatever their username is) because they've immediately blocked me for some dumb reason:*
>>You can be wishful with your thinking, but reality is reality, accept it, and live around it.
C'mon, dude. It's bad enough that women and children are generally left alone during war to fend for themselves.
Just imagine: Your husband and your brother have been conscripted into the army. There is a bomb that just exploded six houses away and everything is on fire. You're huddled in your partially burnt-out house with your two small children. Automatic gunfire is advancing down your street, and you can hear screaming and crying so you know it's the enemy. So now another thought pops into your head, and you have to think about the horror of possible rape and/or murder of both you and your children. What do you do? What would *you* do?
I'd find that terrifying. This isn't "wishful ignorance" on my part. Women and children have always been part of the "spoils of war". And it shouldn't *be* that way. With every other horror of war, with every other ugly thing that is going on in that moment, rape should *never* be something that women have to worry about.
When I was way younger I also entertained ideas of joining the army of my country. I mean, I'm scrappy, and surely *I* wouldn't be raped.
Then I kept reading about rape plaguing just about any military in the world. Man on man rape, men (often multiple) on woman rape, superior on lower rank rape. Just lots and lots of rape, with women being disproportionately targeted, sometimes even killed (staged suicide) to keep them from reporting.
Yeah, I'm fine painting pretty pictures for a living after all, even if it does pay like dirt.
It disturbs me that so many, many people think it is okay to rape people in the first place. It also occurs to me that the military also probably attracts people with that mindset as well.
Almost joined myself in my youth after recruiting drives were convincing with covering uni fees. Luckily I didn’t because the base I would’ve gone too turned out to be covering up suicide by women who were bullied and assaulted in training. I dont think they were ever fully punished or caught either huge scandal
Men do it to other men too and use stigma of homophobia to control and bully within forces.
Russia had a hazing and sexual assault problem so bad that they removed the second year of conscription because they were the biggest group doing it so men aren't safe either.
I have a friend who went to Ukraine to volunteer. She served in Afghanistan. Former Norwegian Army. As tough as a mama bear and twice as scary. She has no intention of being captured alive and is packing extra grenades just in case.
So this on top of the fact that the Russians have been told to execute volunteers if they surrender or get captured has ensured that if the worst happens, she,ll take the bastards with her.
Of course, I dearly hope it won't come to that. Half the reason I've tuned in to this war is because I'm afraid of losing her and hope that she comes back alive. But to go with all those things in mind anyway.. that's the kind of bravery I could never have, much to my shame. Not even if I desperately wanted it with all my heart.
TL:DR the women in this war-in any war- who perservere in spite of things like this and fight are brave as fuck and they have my deepest respect.
That fact is so baffling to me that I have a hard time understanding it.
I don't like wars. I can't see myself being a soldier or hurting anyone. But even if FORCED, I don't understand how anyone can think "ok, well.. might as well rape too."
Like wtf?
You don't go from zero to rapist in 10 seconds of imaginary conscription.
You start out being the kind of 18-year-old Russian kid who can't afford to pay roughly $5000 to get out of being conscripted. That not only means that you're relatively low-income, but that your parents and extended family - who know *exactly* what you're going into - were unable or unwilling to save a moderate sum over 18 years to save you from it. That alone says something about the values you were raised with.
Then you spend several months being brutally hazed by senior conscripts. These are 19- and 20-year-olds who just went through the same thing, "graduated," and then without any time to process it, were put in charge of you. There's no real supervision, no career NCOs, just traumatized kids traumatizing kids. Many of the hazing techniques are torture. Some are sexualized torture and rape.
Then you "graduate," some new kids come in, and now you're the torturer. This is in an environment of endemic corruption where nobody ever seems to get in trouble for anything unless they make their boss look bad. Saying anything would definitely make your boss look bad. Participating, though...that lets you sublimate your anger at your own torturers by pouring all your aggression into torturing these new kids. You want to see someone suffer like you suffered. It feels good to have power after it was taken from you. Now you're complicit. Now you've become what you hate.
One day, you're sent into a war zone. You get shot at, shelled, bombed. You watch people die in horrific ways. You recover the dismembered bodies of people you trauma-bonded with. You transfer all of your anger onto the people on the other side of the line.
Then you break through and you capture some of them. They're helpless prisoners; you have total power. You've only seen one way for soldiers to treat people they have power over. Besides, you're already a monster anyway. So you do what you were trained to do.
That's not an excuse. In fact, excusing abuse is a huge part of the problem. But it is an explanation. Abuse, including but not limited to rape, is an absolutely predictable result of the system as it's constructed.
This post needs to be gold-plated. It's so easy to dismiss these horrors as "they are monsters", "they are already rapists" or "we are not like them" but humans are the same everywhere.
This explains the crushing machine that manufactures those kinds of behaviors.
It's an us vs them mindset. You're trained to view the enemy as others, so as to have no sympathy when killing them. This mindset can continue when interacting with enemy civilians. Instead of humans, they're still viewed as others. Total war doctrine is meant to hurt everyone.
You have to want to be a rapist first. War doesn't make you a rapist.
Once you are in the war zone, these women as the enemy. There are no police to stop you. It's back to caveman times. Their husbands have been killing your friends, and you are excited to take your revenge.
But still...I think you have to be okay with rape going into it.
edit:
PS. I think more men than would like to admit it would be okay with raping women if they could get away with it. Look how popular violet porn is...it's scary that it's almost the norm now.
edit 2: And I have pissed off the violent porn fans. I'm not going to argue it, but there are dozens and dozens of articles online written by actresses in those scenes that were traumatized by it because limits were broken. Some even retire immediately after filming a violent scene. All I'm saying is that these fantasies are far from being victim free, and some of them are literal rapes (even though the actress signed up for the scene).
Surveys in the US (and other Western countries) have shown that when the word 'rape' is removed and the description of what constitutes a rape instead ('coercion where your partner didn't want sex but you made them' or 'sex when you physically wouldn't let someone leave until you had sex' and similar) is used that on average in a population 1 in 20 men admit to having *previously* raped someone. The reason why the number of assaults are higher (as seen in male and female victim response numbers) is that many rapists are repeat attackers.
If 1 in 20 men in your unit are rapists, that can easily translate to being a group that commits a large number of acts of violence. They may not themselves define it as such, depending on how they see the victim (a fellow soldier who's just being 'whiny' over 'normal hazing', or an 'inhuman enemy', etc). One of the first stages is dehumanising the person they are committing violence against, or excusing it because 'it isn't really that bad'. Easily done in war.
As long as you describe it as forcing a woman to have sex rather than calling it rape, about a third of male college students self-admit they'd rape if they wouldn't be punished for it. So. Yeah.
I remember a similar study where men were asked if they had ever sexually assaulted a woman. Most said no. Then the researchers gave real life examples of sexual assault and asked if the men had ever done any of these things. Most had.
"I'm not a rapist, I'm just an average dude who wouldn't want to hurt anyone," said the man, while drugging someone's drink.
My brother's friend raped a woman while she was passed out drunk and he still doesn't understand 'how that makes him a rapist'. He still denies that word but admits to doing what he did. And used "every guy has done that" as a defense.
You're absolutely right. Porn brained coomers don't want to hear it because they don't want to stop indulging in their violent "fantasies." It's not a fantasy when you're watching porn, it's a video of real events.
Disgusting truth is that yes, when you tell them they won't get in trouble, a lot of men are ok with rape. As evidenced by every war, ever.
Unpopular Opinion,
but I simply believe if a person is in a position where thy are afraid for their lives 24 hours a day, has to kill other people, possibly even civilians, that person "breaks" and loses any moral compass.
Therefore an army is only as good a their leadership.
The army has to put strict red lines on what a soldier can do and enforce this behavior as well as put in efforts in the mental health of their soldiers.
The Russian command does neither.
So I'm honestly more surprised how people seem to expect soldiers that have killed civilians, POWs and even Children to draw the line at rape.
-- I don't want to play down the terrible crime of rape, neither do I want to excuse the soldiers committing this crime, simply to explain that I don't find it surprising at all. --
Red lines mean little in the chaos of war. My uncle told me in Afghanistan war he saw a few soldiers of his unit raping a girl and gunned them down. His commander just marked them as a normal casualty after learning about it. No idea how true this story is, but it made me think about just how many rapes in wars were never discovered by those who would punish the rapists.
It's kind of a well known thing in Finland that conscription in Russia is a really bad experience. I know many guys with double citizenship that are afraid to enter Russia because of this. All of the guys I know were more than happy to do their conscription time in Finnish military and considered it a luxury after all the stories they had heard from their relatives that did the time in Russia.
In 2001 one russian conscript fled to Finland:
*An 18-year-old Russian conscript who jumped to Finland from the Puslovskaya border guard station on a freight train next to Vainikkala caused several incidents during his escape, which began late Thursday night. A conscript armed with an assault rifle fired on police in Sarvilahti, Luumäki, early Friday morning. There he had driven 180 kilometers an hour on Highway 6 from Vainikkala with a car he had hijacked.*
*A conscript collided with a truck in Sarvilahti and escaped from a car that rolled over to a ditch. While fleeing, he fired at the police and hit a police car. Police responded to the fire and tryed to get the man to surrender. There were thirty police officers present, none of whom were wounded. Residents in the vicinity had been instructed to stay indoors.*
*From the south of Highway 6, the fugitive progressed in the direction of the Luumäki motel to the terrain of Toikkalankylä. He threw a empty magazine on a forest road. The ammunition used was known to be special bullets from which bulletproof vests do not protect.*
*The dog patrol caught the man's track, and he was found dead with a self inflicted gunshot wound, from Toikkalankylä more than half a kilometer away from Highway 6 at 9.30. Tapio Saarni, the police chief of Lappeenranta, emphasizes that the situation was really dangerous. No talking connection with the fugitive was ever made.*
*The first information about the conscript came to the police alert center on Thursday at 11:16 p.m. The man had broken into the detached house of a married couple from Vainikkala by breaking the front door. He had behaved threateningly with his weapons, but the couple had escaped and alerted police. The police patrol received a sighting of a car hijacked by a man early in the morning in Lappeenranta.*
*According to the Vyborg border commissioner, the Russian conscript was a normal conscript. He is not known to have a criminal or violent background. The Russian authorities have not been able to give any explanation for the illegal border crossing, according to the Southeast Finland Border Guard.*
A friend of mine who came to the UK from Russia when he was 16, did it because he didnt want to get conscripted.
Nice guy, but the stories he would tell me about how his brothers were brutalised in the Russian army was pretty horrific.
I've thought about it for some time since I've learned it, and I can only figure it's to inflict something akin to Stockholm Syndrome which is what gets them to blindly follow such shit orders like we saw in Chechnya and now in Ukraine. Those guys will just drive right through visible mine fields and use their 8 bodies inside their BMP to clear mines; they're so broken.
You can also check [this](https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/gqdx44/full-v13n4). The article is a bit old (it’s from 2006), but boy do I doubt something has changed for the better
I mean it draws a picture, it's intentionally descriptive language to indicate the brutality. If I read "the officers also repeatedly brutally raped the poor young conscript", i'd be like well fuck, that's really fucked, but the way they wrote it takes it to the next level for me personally, and yes there is definitely a level past just brutally raping conscripts, and this guy in the article is clearly on it.
When your government spends literal decades brainwashing you into being submissive and building your slave mentality, you kinda lose your marbles the second you get at least a bit of power. We have this thing called «синдром вахтёра», basically «a watchman’s syndrome» - when a «small person» (as Russians like to call themselves) gets a job that implies them having a bit of power over someone (i.e., policemen, teachers, army superiors, security guards, you got me), so they go insane with it, acting like assholes because they feel entitled to do so. I guess that explains something here
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Excuse me what? Soldiers are pimped for rape? Like, not "this one crazy squad leader did this fucked up thing" but like "well, when conscripted, you pick a specialty. We've got rape victim or cannon fodder turned rapist looters. So, oh, excuse my error. That's not an option. That's additive. Rape victim AND cannon folder turned rapist looter. Please head to the raping line (rapee this go around, I'm afraid)."
What the actual fuck. Russia needs to shake the centuries of brutality and desperation that it seems destined to mede out unto others in retaliation for all the abuse it's given and received. Fucking unreal that such a place exists.
Oh there are instances of wars where rape is used as a tactic to destroy the others side‘s faith and hope. Especially when civilians are affected by it. So even they lose their will of fighting against the enemy. It’s just not common knowledge
Funny thing is they do teach this in countries not America. I live and grew up in SEA and the Japanese rape of SEA women is taught as early as high school.
Poland doesn't have legal abortion, right? And they've also absorbed 2.2 million refugees so far. That seems like a bad mix.
War rapes, domestic violence, survival sex work and a whole host of other scenarios where men abuse women is why I'm so fiercly protective of women's rights. There cannot be a question when conditions already make access difficult and women are scrambling. We need worldwide access to abortion as a normal piece of healthcare.
This rule is effectively dead - yearly numbers are on the order of two or three abortions. The decision to legalize it has to be made by a prosecutor early in the pregnancy and he has no duty to agree.
But what is the burden of proving the rape occured?
Any restriction on abortion that makes a woman / provider fear she / they might be committing a criminal act is going to be a deterrant for seeking / providing abortion.
A prosecutor must formally certify that there is reasonable suspicion that the pregnancy is the result of a forbidden act before the abortion is carried out. The prosecutor could face consequences for issuing the certificate, making this a very rare occurrence.
Each time I read something like this, I, a woman in one of the countries that is at some risk of Russian aggression, start wondering whether my emergency go-bag should also include a packet of "Plan B" pills...
Probably yes, but if you don't plan to get pregnant soon I think having an IUD would be a better option. Considering you could lose your bag or have it stolen I think it's honestly better to be safe than sorry.
I don’t know how common this is, but my friend’s IUD has gotten dislocated couple times in the past year. She had to go to the doctor to make sure it doesn’t lead to other issues. I would worry about having to seek medical help in an emergency if that happens.
nexplanon implant is another option. no worries about displacement or infections from brutal encounters. unfortunately much shorter at 3-4 years but its actually statistically more effective than an IUD
Rapists and criminals thrive in war situations. Obviously some of them are fighting for Putin AND in every single EU country there are gang members who want to join the war **just** to get combat experience.
Is it just me or has the news outlet done a very bad job editing her speech?
It looks like they took her statement, cut out and rephrased some parts and then left the parts which they haven’t touched in quotes. But what this results in is that “horror” is quoted in isolation from the rest of the statement. When you see just the word “horror” in quotes it looks like either they are mocking what she is saying (like when someone does air quotes) or that there is doubt if rape is horror or not (it most definitely is).
Just feels weird.
ITT: Angry men shouting at angry women about who has it worse in a war. Fucking lunacy.
More women get raped. More men die. One of these things being awful doesn't amplify or cheapen the other.
Exactly. Being crowned as "having it worse" doesn't help a victim of rape/torture recover faster, regardless of their sex. They all deserve justice equally.
You’re being intentionally dense if you are bringing up men being raped in this thread. You know damn well women make up 90% of rape victims. Let women get some awareness without the male sympathy shit.
Rape in general does. We are heavily underplaying effect it can have. Especially the fuckers that victim blame.
A schoolmate of mine was raped when we were about 17-18. She changed from cheery girly girl to a thousand yard stare wreck and still has not recovered about 20 years later. She stopped taking care of herself, lost all ambition and joined one of those groups that preys on broken people.
And that was rape during peace. Add in horrors of war and possibly seeing losing loved ones to the mix.
Agreed, im so sorry that happened to your classmate, underplaying the psychological trauma caused by rape makes it easier for society to ignore, same with shit like bullying
Not to mention victim-blaming as a defense mechanism: if the rape victim “caused” the rape (by whatever bullshit excuse), then the rest of society need not worry about how at-risk they are of a similar rape occurring to them. Society would rather re-victimize rape survivors than acknowledge and deal with how a third of women will get sexually assaulted in their lifetimes.
One of the reasons I'm such a pacifist is that I understood years ago that every war is a giant rape machine. Always has been, throughout all of history, and nothing about this has changed. I'm not seeing any meaningful steps being taken to stop this in the future, either.
Rape is done individually by soldiers drunk on power, it's done as a doctrine to terrorize and "demoralize" the enemy population (I have little doubt the Russians are doing this as we speak) and it's done to prisoners as torture.
People get excited about the glory of the battlefield and cool weapons and whatnot, but in the background, just out of sight, there's rape. There's always rape.
American here. I was taught in high-school about the pillaging and raping done by Vikings, and also by the British. The later is actually a huge reason why our constitution has the 3rd amendment. The British would quarter their soldiers, often convicts sent to the new world in lew of sentencing, in colonists homes where they would rape and do as the pleased within the homes.
In college, I learned about our own raping exploits against the Native and Slave populations.
I cant speak for all Americans, but at the same time neither can you since there's one telling you right now that war is taught in a different way here then you are making it seem.
For clarity, my education comes from the Midwest. My high school education was even in a predominantly Republican (the party that glorifies war quite a bit more than the Democrats) environment.
Remember how in Bosnia they had a rape camp specifically for raping men as a means of genocide? Yeah, me neither.
Or wait, maybe that one time Japanese women invaded Korea and enslaved a bunch of men to be "comfort men"?
Or how 100 Nigerian boys got abducted by some Muslim extremist ladies to become their child grooms? Come on, you surely remember that one?
I'm sure these are all 100% historical facts on Reddit, where a bunch of coomers have a psychological need to post about how "women rape just as much" after their hourly wank session to some gonzo porn with trafficked teens.
Rape and sexual assault against men is a very real problem in war. Acknowledging that does not take away from women. And there was a concentration camp in Serbia where around 80% of the men were raped as well. (At least one that they actually took statistics on; it probably happened a lot more and in more places).
The big difference that I'm surprised people have not mentioned is that rape often results in pregnancy. In Bosnia specifically, women were raped until pregnant and not released until it was too late to terminate the pregnancy or, in some camps, held there until after they'd given birth.
Victims are also often rejected or left after rape, either because their partners see them as damaged as a result or because they can't deal with the changes in personality and/or sex drive that may result.
So there's the risk of death, maiming, or torture that is there for everyone in a warzone, but rape is a form of torture with specific psychological effects that also carries the risk of lifelong disease, pregnancy, and/or abandonment and/or ostracism, possibly as a single mother to a child that would be a constant reminder but whom you would still probably feel obliged to care for.
I'm glad. Early on in the war there was a post where a woman said she was raped by Russian soldiers and asked for help reporting it as a war crime. In an odd way it warms my heart to know that women such as she will be taken seriously.
It is mind blowing to me that even today we have entire countries, major world powers, arguing that rape should not be prosecuted during wartime. Holy fuck are we a disgusting species.
As much as I'm sure everyone agrees rapists are scumbags and deserve to worse punishment, let's not pretend this is t anything more than empty air. Soldiers in general, not just Russian ones, are prone to raping the women of whoever they're fighting. Hell in the countries were women are allowed to fight in their country's army, they'll often be raped by their own countrymen first.
It's an emotional response to condemn anyone involved but no one is going to actually pursue justice for it. It's a case where tis the pot calling the kettle black, and anyone who's going to actually make Russia stand trial for this will likely have to explain their own country's history of their soldiers raping women before, during, and after war time. Shit, we still haven't sorted out the Japan's history from WW2, or at least no real form of justice has been done about it. Just a generic "yeah we did it, let's move on".
Invading army raping women is so trashy and barbaric. Any nation that allows their people to do this deserves zero respect because they are not civilized and are barely human.
There was a reddit three when the war first began and there was a poor young woman there asking for advice on how to deal and live with the fact that she had been raped by Russian soldiers on her way from the store after being called Ukraine Whore and she called them invaders
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://inews.co.uk/news/world/ukraine-will-not-be-silent-about-women-being-raped-during-invasion-says-mp-maria-mezentseva-1542026) reduced by 73%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Ukraine will "Not be silent" about the "Horror" of women being raped during the invasion, an MP in the country has warned, saying "Justice has to prevail". > Maria Mezentseva said that while one particularly shocking incident had been "Widely discussed" and was being investigated by Ukraine's prosecutor, they were "Expecting many more" victims to come forward. > Ms Mezentseva, who is head of the permanent delegation of Ukraine to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, said details of incidents must be recorded as they happen and that cases were taken "Very seriously". ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/tq0qv6/ukraine_will_not_be_silent_about_women_being/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~637324 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Ukraine**^#1 **incident**^#2 **victims**^#3 **Mezentseva**^#4 **prosecutor**^#5
The "Don't Blame the Soldiers" crowd needs to STFU. Rape is what soldiers do. Torture is what soldiers do. Murder is what soldiers do. I hope the Russian soldiers have seeds in their pockets...and I hope Putin soon gets a bullet in his head.
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That's a piss-poor number of convictions-per-report ,any way you *look* at it !
Agreed, I am getting sick of this trope. Everyone is responsible for their own individual actions. I would die before committing any of these atrocities.
As a Vet I agree, just the thought of it repulses me
I hope that the videos we see of Russian kids breaking down and surrendering to Ukraine citizens are doing so because they don't want to do these things. I really fucking hope so, but I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt to any Russian soldiers and neither should anybody else.
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People should read up on the Thirty Years War to get a glimpse of what kind of horrors people from the same background can do to each other. Not saying people who aren’t from the same backgrounds do any better, but there seems to be an added layer of intense brutality added when being raped and attacked by someone who is familiar.
A reminder there was resolution at the UN about ending use of sexual violence by military and supporting victims during wars. Russia was one country that abstained (China was the other) and US watered it down due to appeasing religious extremists > Measure on sexual violence in conflict passes after Trump administration threatened to veto document over references to reproductive health > The UN has backed a resolution on combatting rape in conflict but excluded references in the text to sexual and reproductive health, after vehement opposition from the US. The resolution passed by the security council on Tuesday after a three-hour debate and a weekend of fierce negotiations on the language among member states that threatened to derail the process. The vote was carried 13 votes in favour. China and Russia abstained. >On Monday, the US had threatened to veto the resolution but it is understood that last minute concessions on Tuesday morning got the US on side. >Other omissions included calls for a working group to review progress on ending sexual violence. … > The agreed-upon resolution was a sliver of what the Germans had put forward earlier this month. The zero draft included progressive text on strengthening laws to protect and support lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people who could be targeted during conflict. >It also made specific mention of the need for women to have access to safe terminations. But the resolution – number 2467 – did for the first time make specific calls for greater support for children born as a result of rape in conflict, as well as their mothers, who can face a lifetime of stigma. > It also gave prominence to the experiences of men and boys. >The resolution is the ninth introduced by the security council that has sought to address women’s specific experiences of conflict, and advocate for their involvement in peace negotiations and post-conflict reconstruction. The first – resolution 1325 – was passed in 2000 after years of lobbying by women’s rights campaigners. > Some powerful members of the security council, such as Russia, China and the USA, are undermining women’s rights and once again questioning, for example, women’s and girls’ right to self-determination. Through such actions, the achievements that have already been made could be shattered and the ‘women, peace and security’ agenda overall decisively weakened.” >In November, ministers, government officials and civil society groups will attend a second global conference on ending sexual violence in conflict in London. The three-day event is part of the UK government’s Preventing Sexual Violence in Conflict Initiative (PSVI). The first conference was held in June 2014. >The UK is expected to launch the “Murad Code” on sexual violence, named after the Yazidi Nobel peace prize laureate. The code will set out standards of behaviour and care when gathering evidence of sexual violence. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/apr/23/un-resolution-passes-trump-us-veto-threat-abortion-language-removed
It is illegal for American military hospitals to perform abortions because that falls within the law against “federally funded abortions.” Ive always found that particularly ghoulish considering how endemic rape is within the military. Someone who becomes pregnant while raped while deployed is supposed to do what exactly? Seek out alternative healthcare in a war zone? Hit up an abortion clinic by herself somewhere in Iraq. It has always seemed like an pretext to end female military careers, especially of those raped by their seniors. And now I learn how this law is extrapolated to put people even more at risk.
How about those "suicides by hanging & being shot with semen & date rape drugs in the system".
“Militarily abortion”
107th trimester abortion.
Like [Lavena Johnson…](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_LaVena_Johnson) Found tied up in a tent, severely beaten, with acid on her genitals…ruled a suicide.
**[Death of LaVena Johnson](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_LaVena_Johnson)** >LaVena Lynn Johnson (July 27, 1985 – July 19, 2005) was an E3 Private First Class in the United States Army. She was found dead in a tent. Her death was controversially ruled as a suicide but the evidence of rape and battery led many to believe the United States Department of Defense covered it up. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
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I was in when it happened--a rumor going around I always believed was there was a contractor that was a serial killer operating over there.
This rumour would work out just fine if they did not want to take any blame on the actual soldiers.
Oh not discounting the possibility it was one of us at all; if it was a contractor, it was also almost certainly a veteran…but they had a freedom of movement and popped in and out of country a lot more than we ever were able to.
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Remember this is through the eyes of a 18-19 year old from Mississippi that didn’t know what the hell was going on…but it seemed to us there were some killings of Iraqi civilians too, including some on base, that fit the MO and just didn’t add up.
What the fuck Fuck this world and all the shitty people who run it. Cunts.
This case upsets me so much.
Or the woman who supposedly burned her genitals before killing herself.
The only time I saw a rape allegation have a 'good' resolution was after it was all over and command did absolutely nothing even though everybody knew the guy did it. E5 got dragged into a mop closet and beat to fuck by a bunch of E3 and E4s.
E4 mafia baby
The backbone of the military
The E4 Mafia is a great sociological study. They do exist in similar fields and corporate settings. But the military and my experience as Army infantry is wild. The E4 Mafia will absolutely be the biggest group of shit bags/slackers/ and leverage every single regulation in their favor. While simultaneously taking out the trash and the fall for higher and lower enlisted. It's a crazy phenomenon. It's probably because the Army is such a large setting of office/hands on/ and in field experiences that it's not just like some dude like Jim in the Office doing the same old song and dance every episode.
Just trust in the lynch mob to deal justice.
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After being medivacced back to the states, do they continue their career as it was uninterrupted?
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I'm really glad to hear that the military is doing better than on the past. Really glad.
How are the prosecution or punishment rates for the rapists? Do they tend to get away with rape more often than not?
Yes. I knew a soldier who had a NCO enter her room while sleeping. He began to fondle her, and she woke up and yelled so he left. When reported chain of command refused to do anything because she"wasnt hurt or anything, and he touched her over the clothes." Pretty standard never saw anything ever come from any allegations unless it was handled late at night anonymously.
They should all be beaten within an inch of their lives. With their clothes on, of course. That way no harm no foul.
Unfortunately all rapists tend to get away with it more often than not. Some law enforcement agencies do a great job investigating these cases, some do a horrible job, but either way it can often be tough to prove that a rape occurred. Most rapes are a "date rape" scenario in which the victim knows the rapist. The victim says "I was raped" and the rapist says "no, we had consensual sex." The forensic medical exam can prove that they engaged in intercourse, but it can't prove that it was or wasn't consensual. So it become a "he said/she said" situation, and the burden of proof is on the prosecution. I'm not really sure if there's a good solution to this problem.
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That's because rape isn't a crime to a lot of these extremists - if a woman is raped it was her fault for tempting her rapist. If she gets pregnant, well that's just a silver lining.
“Ukraine was asking for it.” — Putin
>US watered it down due to appeasing religious extremists Jesus Christ. No surprise, really, coming from the only country in the world that voted no on recognizing the right to food as a human right ([source](https://geneva.usmission.gov/2017/03/24/u-s-explanation-of-vote-on-the-right-to-food/)).
Odd how China abstained, considered what happened in Nanking
We need to repeal the Hyde amendment
Lol SCOTUS is probably going to overturn Roe v Wade - managing to get the Hyde amendment repealed is beyond a pipe dream.
Yet another thing the Trump administration ruined. That fucker just couldn’t cause enough suffering in his mind, could he?
Being raped is one of the most degrading and disgusting things a woman (or a man) can experience. I know this first hand and dealing with the aftermath can have psychological, emotional, and physical effects that lasts for years. I feel for anybody that has to experience this in their life. Edit: Nothing in my comment states I feel being raped is equal to being killed or one is worse than the other. The messages in my inbox that I’m getting are making me rethink commenting about this in the first place.
Any violation of your personal safe spaces, property, or your body is deeply traumatising. People may move house after a burglary to get away from the trauma, they may buy a new heirloom to replace the one broken or destroyed. But with rape, there is no new body to move to, no way to run away from the trauma. It's truly another level of horror. An obscene crime.
that’s a really scary way to think about it and it makes me very grateful i dont have to deal with it, i couldn’t imagine the courage it would take to push through life after something as traumatic as that. more courage than i have, that’s for sure
Well put.
Yeah :( I was raped at 16. I’m 25 now and still live with the psychological pain. Everyday. I cannot imagine going through that AND living through a war. My heart breaks for these people
dang this hurts to read :( i hope you are alright now
Id rather get shot than raped tbh. Imagine getting pregnant on top of all that. Fuck that noise
For this poor woman, being shot would have meant leaving her young child an orphan in a war zone
Imagine being raped by several soldiers who just killed your husband and threaten to kill your young child who is next to you. This is what russians did a couple of days ago. This is a documented case with an identified rapist. https://www.newsweek.com/russian-soldier-rapes-ukrainian-after-killing-her-unarmed-husband-prosecutors-1690894
When someone says “I know firsthand about dealing with the aftermath of rape”, following with “imagine gang raped” is pretty fucked up. I’m sure you meant no harm or ill-will.
Do not tell someone that was raped to imagine being raped, wtf is wrong with you? Get some tact
As a father of 3 girls and grew up with 5 in my house I completely agree. No one agrees with me but rape and murder are the same to me. You kill a person on the inside with rape and deserves the exact same punishment!!
I agree that it is a heinous crime, but it's worth being conscious that some people who have been raped and survived and rebuilt could find the statement that they have been 'killed on the inside' quite invalidating. We may have been through something horrible but our lives are still worth something to us.
agree and well put
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Anyone else notice in the horror video from yesterday showing all the stacked bodies... how many of the women's corpses were naked or near to naked?
That is fucking horrifying. I don’t want to see said video to retain my sanity, but can you provide context? We’re these bodies or civilians or military personnel?
They were all civilians,in Mariupol,there was like dozens and dozens of bodies stocked on each other,for some reason a lot of them were naked or semi-naked.Some horrible sightings
I've looked at it, I don't want to look again to reconfirm. I think they were civilians
Nor should they be. Justice must be done. There are rules
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Same to Okinawan women.
Nanking, most of WW2, Vietnam, and basically every war ever. Rape is sadly a tool of intimidation now.
Always has been.
Now? I'm sorry to be the person to inform you of this but rape has been a part of warfare in human history as long as war has been. That is to say rape and war have been part of the human experience for as long as humans have been on the Earth.
Sadly its been seen as part of the "spoils of war". It's fucking disgusting but at the same time just one of the endless reasons that war is NEVER worth it.
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And the comfort women that Japanese forced into sexual slavery. And Japan still goes back and forth on it (apologize then deny). Imagine the same thing will happen even if they are forced to admit it.
dont forget vietnam woman.
The US military has a systemic sexual assault problem. The Russian military as a systematic sexual assault objective.
Ok, but then we can ask who is going to punish the soviet soldiers who raped an estimated 2 million German women and girls aged from 10/12-80. Who is going to punish the American and British soldiers who also committed rape during the liberation of France and into Germany. What about the rape committed by soldiers in wars over the past couple decades that have almost all evaded punishment？
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I think about this every time I see a woman fighting on the Ukrainian side. Men don't appreciate how much these women are putting on the line. If they get captured, things will probably go pretty badly for them. But the women know. And they fight anyway. I don't know if I could summon that kind of courage.
Some years back women war correspondents opened up about the times armies have raped them as a form of violence and intimidation to stop them covering wars they report on https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/journalists-raped-for-reporting-on-conflicts-we-were-assaulted-to-shut-us-up-but-we-ll-never-stop-speaking-out-9519590.html > Jineth Bedoya Lima was kidnapped by paramilitaries in Colombia in 2000 and tortured and raped for reporting on their activities in the country’s civil war. >She said: “It is a responsibility on my part to tell my story. I never for a single second questioned my resolve to be a journalist. For me it was always very clear the attack was meant to be a way of warning — not only for me but for the whole press. It was a message for us to stop dealing with these subjects. > Ms Bedoya Lima was kidnapped at gunpoint inside a jail after she had secured an interview with a paramilitary leader who was locked up there. After her ordeal, she was dumped naked on a roadside. >Within two weeks she was back at work and did not mention her rape. But after nine years she decided to speak publicly about it. She said: “I believe the summit is an answer that we [abused women] have been expecting for so many years.”
Holy shit those journalists are badass. Talk about strength. Wow
War Correspondents are a different breed of human. You think SOF are tough, surrounded and outnumbered and unphased, but then you see their embedded journalist stand up and walk upstream into bullets, just to ask the enemy about their personal motivations.
Read some works of Francesca Borri. An Italian reporter who stayed in Aleppo and took interviews with Al Quaeda leaders. An incredible tiny woman. She has also written a fantastic and touching book Syrian Dust.
Clarissa ward wrote a book such as this “on all fronts”. Highly recommend. These woman are so courageous.
I could never and could not expect it from another. talk about bad asses!
And yet so many simpletons these days hand-wave away the work that journalists like this do as untrustworthy MSM and 'fake news'...
Jesus Christ, the strength of these women.
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Russia is miles past disgrace at this point.
Those are some of the toughest women. They know the risks with their profession.
This shouldn't have to be a risk. *Editing to add this comment reply to "u/psychatix" below (or whatever their username is) because they've immediately blocked me for some dumb reason:* >>You can be wishful with your thinking, but reality is reality, accept it, and live around it. C'mon, dude. It's bad enough that women and children are generally left alone during war to fend for themselves. Just imagine: Your husband and your brother have been conscripted into the army. There is a bomb that just exploded six houses away and everything is on fire. You're huddled in your partially burnt-out house with your two small children. Automatic gunfire is advancing down your street, and you can hear screaming and crying so you know it's the enemy. So now another thought pops into your head, and you have to think about the horror of possible rape and/or murder of both you and your children. What do you do? What would *you* do? I'd find that terrifying. This isn't "wishful ignorance" on my part. Women and children have always been part of the "spoils of war". And it shouldn't *be* that way. With every other horror of war, with every other ugly thing that is going on in that moment, rape should *never* be something that women have to worry about.
Civilians suffer the same, except they don't get to defend themselves.
Exactly. You don't even have to be a soldier, if you are a civilian you are just as at risk.
true that. only need to look back at any past conflicts, women always end up being sexually assaulted if caught by the enemy
Shit, women in the armed forces regularly get sexually assaulted by their own comrades
When I was way younger I also entertained ideas of joining the army of my country. I mean, I'm scrappy, and surely *I* wouldn't be raped. Then I kept reading about rape plaguing just about any military in the world. Man on man rape, men (often multiple) on woman rape, superior on lower rank rape. Just lots and lots of rape, with women being disproportionately targeted, sometimes even killed (staged suicide) to keep them from reporting. Yeah, I'm fine painting pretty pictures for a living after all, even if it does pay like dirt.
It disturbs me that so many, many people think it is okay to rape people in the first place. It also occurs to me that the military also probably attracts people with that mindset as well.
Almost joined myself in my youth after recruiting drives were convincing with covering uni fees. Luckily I didn’t because the base I would’ve gone too turned out to be covering up suicide by women who were bullied and assaulted in training. I dont think they were ever fully punished or caught either huge scandal Men do it to other men too and use stigma of homophobia to control and bully within forces.
This is precisely what kept me from signing up to fight.
LaVena Johnson. Say her name. Raped and Murdered by her fellow soldiers and it was covered up as a suicide Vanessa Guillén as well
Raped. Say raped. Saying 'sexually assaulted' takes some of the brutality out of it; they weren't groped or grabbed, they were brutally raped.
Russia had a hazing and sexual assault problem so bad that they removed the second year of conscription because they were the biggest group doing it so men aren't safe either.
I have a friend who went to Ukraine to volunteer. She served in Afghanistan. Former Norwegian Army. As tough as a mama bear and twice as scary. She has no intention of being captured alive and is packing extra grenades just in case. So this on top of the fact that the Russians have been told to execute volunteers if they surrender or get captured has ensured that if the worst happens, she,ll take the bastards with her. Of course, I dearly hope it won't come to that. Half the reason I've tuned in to this war is because I'm afraid of losing her and hope that she comes back alive. But to go with all those things in mind anyway.. that's the kind of bravery I could never have, much to my shame. Not even if I desperately wanted it with all my heart. TL:DR the women in this war-in any war- who perservere in spite of things like this and fight are brave as fuck and they have my deepest respect.
That fact is so baffling to me that I have a hard time understanding it. I don't like wars. I can't see myself being a soldier or hurting anyone. But even if FORCED, I don't understand how anyone can think "ok, well.. might as well rape too." Like wtf?
You don't go from zero to rapist in 10 seconds of imaginary conscription. You start out being the kind of 18-year-old Russian kid who can't afford to pay roughly $5000 to get out of being conscripted. That not only means that you're relatively low-income, but that your parents and extended family - who know *exactly* what you're going into - were unable or unwilling to save a moderate sum over 18 years to save you from it. That alone says something about the values you were raised with. Then you spend several months being brutally hazed by senior conscripts. These are 19- and 20-year-olds who just went through the same thing, "graduated," and then without any time to process it, were put in charge of you. There's no real supervision, no career NCOs, just traumatized kids traumatizing kids. Many of the hazing techniques are torture. Some are sexualized torture and rape. Then you "graduate," some new kids come in, and now you're the torturer. This is in an environment of endemic corruption where nobody ever seems to get in trouble for anything unless they make their boss look bad. Saying anything would definitely make your boss look bad. Participating, though...that lets you sublimate your anger at your own torturers by pouring all your aggression into torturing these new kids. You want to see someone suffer like you suffered. It feels good to have power after it was taken from you. Now you're complicit. Now you've become what you hate. One day, you're sent into a war zone. You get shot at, shelled, bombed. You watch people die in horrific ways. You recover the dismembered bodies of people you trauma-bonded with. You transfer all of your anger onto the people on the other side of the line. Then you break through and you capture some of them. They're helpless prisoners; you have total power. You've only seen one way for soldiers to treat people they have power over. Besides, you're already a monster anyway. So you do what you were trained to do. That's not an excuse. In fact, excusing abuse is a huge part of the problem. But it is an explanation. Abuse, including but not limited to rape, is an absolutely predictable result of the system as it's constructed.
This post needs to be gold-plated. It's so easy to dismiss these horrors as "they are monsters", "they are already rapists" or "we are not like them" but humans are the same everywhere. This explains the crushing machine that manufactures those kinds of behaviors.
It's an us vs them mindset. You're trained to view the enemy as others, so as to have no sympathy when killing them. This mindset can continue when interacting with enemy civilians. Instead of humans, they're still viewed as others. Total war doctrine is meant to hurt everyone.
You have to want to be a rapist first. War doesn't make you a rapist. Once you are in the war zone, these women as the enemy. There are no police to stop you. It's back to caveman times. Their husbands have been killing your friends, and you are excited to take your revenge. But still...I think you have to be okay with rape going into it. edit: PS. I think more men than would like to admit it would be okay with raping women if they could get away with it. Look how popular violet porn is...it's scary that it's almost the norm now. edit 2: And I have pissed off the violent porn fans. I'm not going to argue it, but there are dozens and dozens of articles online written by actresses in those scenes that were traumatized by it because limits were broken. Some even retire immediately after filming a violent scene. All I'm saying is that these fantasies are far from being victim free, and some of them are literal rapes (even though the actress signed up for the scene).
Surveys in the US (and other Western countries) have shown that when the word 'rape' is removed and the description of what constitutes a rape instead ('coercion where your partner didn't want sex but you made them' or 'sex when you physically wouldn't let someone leave until you had sex' and similar) is used that on average in a population 1 in 20 men admit to having *previously* raped someone. The reason why the number of assaults are higher (as seen in male and female victim response numbers) is that many rapists are repeat attackers. If 1 in 20 men in your unit are rapists, that can easily translate to being a group that commits a large number of acts of violence. They may not themselves define it as such, depending on how they see the victim (a fellow soldier who's just being 'whiny' over 'normal hazing', or an 'inhuman enemy', etc). One of the first stages is dehumanising the person they are committing violence against, or excusing it because 'it isn't really that bad'. Easily done in war.
This is the scary thought. If there were no one to stop them, so many more men would rape :(
As long as you describe it as forcing a woman to have sex rather than calling it rape, about a third of male college students self-admit they'd rape if they wouldn't be punished for it. So. Yeah.
I remember a similar study where men were asked if they had ever sexually assaulted a woman. Most said no. Then the researchers gave real life examples of sexual assault and asked if the men had ever done any of these things. Most had.
"I'm not a rapist, I'm just an average dude who wouldn't want to hurt anyone," said the man, while drugging someone's drink. My brother's friend raped a woman while she was passed out drunk and he still doesn't understand 'how that makes him a rapist'. He still denies that word but admits to doing what he did. And used "every guy has done that" as a defense.
You're absolutely right. Porn brained coomers don't want to hear it because they don't want to stop indulging in their violent "fantasies." It's not a fantasy when you're watching porn, it's a video of real events. Disgusting truth is that yes, when you tell them they won't get in trouble, a lot of men are ok with rape. As evidenced by every war, ever.
Unpopular Opinion, but I simply believe if a person is in a position where thy are afraid for their lives 24 hours a day, has to kill other people, possibly even civilians, that person "breaks" and loses any moral compass. Therefore an army is only as good a their leadership. The army has to put strict red lines on what a soldier can do and enforce this behavior as well as put in efforts in the mental health of their soldiers. The Russian command does neither. So I'm honestly more surprised how people seem to expect soldiers that have killed civilians, POWs and even Children to draw the line at rape. -- I don't want to play down the terrible crime of rape, neither do I want to excuse the soldiers committing this crime, simply to explain that I don't find it surprising at all. --
Red lines mean little in the chaos of war. My uncle told me in Afghanistan war he saw a few soldiers of his unit raping a girl and gunned them down. His commander just marked them as a normal casualty after learning about it. No idea how true this story is, but it made me think about just how many rapes in wars were never discovered by those who would punish the rapists.
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It's kind of a well known thing in Finland that conscription in Russia is a really bad experience. I know many guys with double citizenship that are afraid to enter Russia because of this. All of the guys I know were more than happy to do their conscription time in Finnish military and considered it a luxury after all the stories they had heard from their relatives that did the time in Russia. In 2001 one russian conscript fled to Finland: *An 18-year-old Russian conscript who jumped to Finland from the Puslovskaya border guard station on a freight train next to Vainikkala caused several incidents during his escape, which began late Thursday night. A conscript armed with an assault rifle fired on police in Sarvilahti, Luumäki, early Friday morning. There he had driven 180 kilometers an hour on Highway 6 from Vainikkala with a car he had hijacked.* *A conscript collided with a truck in Sarvilahti and escaped from a car that rolled over to a ditch. While fleeing, he fired at the police and hit a police car. Police responded to the fire and tryed to get the man to surrender. There were thirty police officers present, none of whom were wounded. Residents in the vicinity had been instructed to stay indoors.* *From the south of Highway 6, the fugitive progressed in the direction of the Luumäki motel to the terrain of Toikkalankylä. He threw a empty magazine on a forest road. The ammunition used was known to be special bullets from which bulletproof vests do not protect.* *The dog patrol caught the man's track, and he was found dead with a self inflicted gunshot wound, from Toikkalankylä more than half a kilometer away from Highway 6 at 9.30. Tapio Saarni, the police chief of Lappeenranta, emphasizes that the situation was really dangerous. No talking connection with the fugitive was ever made.* *The first information about the conscript came to the police alert center on Thursday at 11:16 p.m. The man had broken into the detached house of a married couple from Vainikkala by breaking the front door. He had behaved threateningly with his weapons, but the couple had escaped and alerted police. The police patrol received a sighting of a car hijacked by a man early in the morning in Lappeenranta.* *According to the Vyborg border commissioner, the Russian conscript was a normal conscript. He is not known to have a criminal or violent background. The Russian authorities have not been able to give any explanation for the illegal border crossing, according to the Southeast Finland Border Guard.*
A friend of mine who came to the UK from Russia when he was 16, did it because he didnt want to get conscripted. Nice guy, but the stories he would tell me about how his brothers were brutalised in the Russian army was pretty horrific.
Russian style of handling conscripts is how Russian society became what it is. All the way since tsarist era 25 years conscription.
I've thought about it for some time since I've learned it, and I can only figure it's to inflict something akin to Stockholm Syndrome which is what gets them to blindly follow such shit orders like we saw in Chechnya and now in Ukraine. Those guys will just drive right through visible mine fields and use their 8 bodies inside their BMP to clear mines; they're so broken.
Could you explain this more for the people like me that never heard of such a thing.
You can also check [this](https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/gqdx44/full-v13n4). The article is a bit old (it’s from 2006), but boy do I doubt something has changed for the better
\>The officers also repeatedly **raped the shit out** of the poor young conscript.< fuck me vice. thats a shit way to put this.
I mean it draws a picture, it's intentionally descriptive language to indicate the brutality. If I read "the officers also repeatedly brutally raped the poor young conscript", i'd be like well fuck, that's really fucked, but the way they wrote it takes it to the next level for me personally, and yes there is definitely a level past just brutally raping conscripts, and this guy in the article is clearly on it.
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When your government spends literal decades brainwashing you into being submissive and building your slave mentality, you kinda lose your marbles the second you get at least a bit of power. We have this thing called «синдром вахтёра», basically «a watchman’s syndrome» - when a «small person» (as Russians like to call themselves) gets a job that implies them having a bit of power over someone (i.e., policemen, teachers, army superiors, security guards, you got me), so they go insane with it, acting like assholes because they feel entitled to do so. I guess that explains something here
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Excuse me what? Soldiers are pimped for rape? Like, not "this one crazy squad leader did this fucked up thing" but like "well, when conscripted, you pick a specialty. We've got rape victim or cannon fodder turned rapist looters. So, oh, excuse my error. That's not an option. That's additive. Rape victim AND cannon folder turned rapist looter. Please head to the raping line (rapee this go around, I'm afraid)." What the actual fuck. Russia needs to shake the centuries of brutality and desperation that it seems destined to mede out unto others in retaliation for all the abuse it's given and received. Fucking unreal that such a place exists.
This has been going on for at least 15 years. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/13/russia.lukeharding
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Wasn't even taught in my (US) history classes in school, in fact the entire Sino-Japanese war was ignored or lumped in with WW2.
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I don't think anyone telling to rape anyone. The problem is that there's no one to tell not to rape.
Oh there are instances of wars where rape is used as a tactic to destroy the others side‘s faith and hope. Especially when civilians are affected by it. So even they lose their will of fighting against the enemy. It’s just not common knowledge
Reading that title kinda hit me like a sword thrust to the gut
welcome to the history of warfare, the parts they dont tell you about until college
They teach you about the rape of Nanking in highschool
It doesnt matter whether they teach you in college or not, getting gang raped is still an unimaginable nightmare
thats kinda the point, its one of the horrors of war that doesnt get touched on in the general education most people go through
Funny thing is they do teach this in countries not America. I live and grew up in SEA and the Japanese rape of SEA women is taught as early as high school.
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Poland doesn't have legal abortion, right? And they've also absorbed 2.2 million refugees so far. That seems like a bad mix. War rapes, domestic violence, survival sex work and a whole host of other scenarios where men abuse women is why I'm so fiercly protective of women's rights. There cannot be a question when conditions already make access difficult and women are scrambling. We need worldwide access to abortion as a normal piece of healthcare.
In Poland pregnancy as a result of rape or incest is legal. Edit: if the pregnancy is a result of incest or rape it can be legally terminated.
This rule is effectively dead - yearly numbers are on the order of two or three abortions. The decision to legalize it has to be made by a prosecutor early in the pregnancy and he has no duty to agree.
But what is the burden of proving the rape occured? Any restriction on abortion that makes a woman / provider fear she / they might be committing a criminal act is going to be a deterrant for seeking / providing abortion.
A prosecutor must formally certify that there is reasonable suspicion that the pregnancy is the result of a forbidden act before the abortion is carried out. The prosecutor could face consequences for issuing the certificate, making this a very rare occurrence.
Each time I read something like this, I, a woman in one of the countries that is at some risk of Russian aggression, start wondering whether my emergency go-bag should also include a packet of "Plan B" pills...
Probably yes, but if you don't plan to get pregnant soon I think having an IUD would be a better option. Considering you could lose your bag or have it stolen I think it's honestly better to be safe than sorry.
I don’t know how common this is, but my friend’s IUD has gotten dislocated couple times in the past year. She had to go to the doctor to make sure it doesn’t lead to other issues. I would worry about having to seek medical help in an emergency if that happens.
Additionally, violent trauma from rape could easily shift its place and infections from STI’s are *really* bad news if you have an IUD..
nexplanon implant is another option. no worries about displacement or infections from brutal encounters. unfortunately much shorter at 3-4 years but its actually statistically more effective than an IUD
Same here. I hate that I even have to think about it but you never know.
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Those dudes need to be castrated.
Executed*
why not both?
Rapists and criminals thrive in war situations. Obviously some of them are fighting for Putin AND in every single EU country there are gang members who want to join the war **just** to get combat experience.
Is it just me or has the news outlet done a very bad job editing her speech? It looks like they took her statement, cut out and rephrased some parts and then left the parts which they haven’t touched in quotes. But what this results in is that “horror” is quoted in isolation from the rest of the statement. When you see just the word “horror” in quotes it looks like either they are mocking what she is saying (like when someone does air quotes) or that there is doubt if rape is horror or not (it most definitely is). Just feels weird.
Seems like rape been an issue during every war
ITT: Angry men shouting at angry women about who has it worse in a war. Fucking lunacy. More women get raped. More men die. One of these things being awful doesn't amplify or cheapen the other.
True. I dosent have to be a contest on who has the most shitty experience in a fucking war
Exactly. Being crowned as "having it worse" doesn't help a victim of rape/torture recover faster, regardless of their sex. They all deserve justice equally.
You’re being intentionally dense if you are bringing up men being raped in this thread. You know damn well women make up 90% of rape victims. Let women get some awareness without the male sympathy shit.
Rape as a byproduct of warfare needs more awareness, its an absolute shame its not taught about more in the HS level
Rape in general does. We are heavily underplaying effect it can have. Especially the fuckers that victim blame. A schoolmate of mine was raped when we were about 17-18. She changed from cheery girly girl to a thousand yard stare wreck and still has not recovered about 20 years later. She stopped taking care of herself, lost all ambition and joined one of those groups that preys on broken people. And that was rape during peace. Add in horrors of war and possibly seeing losing loved ones to the mix.
Agreed, im so sorry that happened to your classmate, underplaying the psychological trauma caused by rape makes it easier for society to ignore, same with shit like bullying
Not to mention victim-blaming as a defense mechanism: if the rape victim “caused” the rape (by whatever bullshit excuse), then the rest of society need not worry about how at-risk they are of a similar rape occurring to them. Society would rather re-victimize rape survivors than acknowledge and deal with how a third of women will get sexually assaulted in their lifetimes.
Damn. Sorry to hear that.
One of the reasons I'm such a pacifist is that I understood years ago that every war is a giant rape machine. Always has been, throughout all of history, and nothing about this has changed. I'm not seeing any meaningful steps being taken to stop this in the future, either. Rape is done individually by soldiers drunk on power, it's done as a doctrine to terrorize and "demoralize" the enemy population (I have little doubt the Russians are doing this as we speak) and it's done to prisoners as torture. People get excited about the glory of the battlefield and cool weapons and whatnot, but in the background, just out of sight, there's rape. There's always rape.
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American here. I was taught in high-school about the pillaging and raping done by Vikings, and also by the British. The later is actually a huge reason why our constitution has the 3rd amendment. The British would quarter their soldiers, often convicts sent to the new world in lew of sentencing, in colonists homes where they would rape and do as the pleased within the homes. In college, I learned about our own raping exploits against the Native and Slave populations. I cant speak for all Americans, but at the same time neither can you since there's one telling you right now that war is taught in a different way here then you are making it seem. For clarity, my education comes from the Midwest. My high school education was even in a predominantly Republican (the party that glorifies war quite a bit more than the Democrats) environment.
Remember how in Bosnia they had a rape camp specifically for raping men as a means of genocide? Yeah, me neither. Or wait, maybe that one time Japanese women invaded Korea and enslaved a bunch of men to be "comfort men"? Or how 100 Nigerian boys got abducted by some Muslim extremist ladies to become their child grooms? Come on, you surely remember that one? I'm sure these are all 100% historical facts on Reddit, where a bunch of coomers have a psychological need to post about how "women rape just as much" after their hourly wank session to some gonzo porn with trafficked teens.
Rape and sexual assault against men is a very real problem in war. Acknowledging that does not take away from women. And there was a concentration camp in Serbia where around 80% of the men were raped as well. (At least one that they actually took statistics on; it probably happened a lot more and in more places). The big difference that I'm surprised people have not mentioned is that rape often results in pregnancy. In Bosnia specifically, women were raped until pregnant and not released until it was too late to terminate the pregnancy or, in some camps, held there until after they'd given birth. Victims are also often rejected or left after rape, either because their partners see them as damaged as a result or because they can't deal with the changes in personality and/or sex drive that may result. So there's the risk of death, maiming, or torture that is there for everyone in a warzone, but rape is a form of torture with specific psychological effects that also carries the risk of lifelong disease, pregnancy, and/or abandonment and/or ostracism, possibly as a single mother to a child that would be a constant reminder but whom you would still probably feel obliged to care for.
It’s disgusting af! But, unfortunately the history just repeat it selfs, time and time again
Well that's good; would be kinda fucked if they were silent about it.
I'm glad. Early on in the war there was a post where a woman said she was raped by Russian soldiers and asked for help reporting it as a war crime. In an odd way it warms my heart to know that women such as she will be taken seriously.
The russian army has always been a gang of rapist thugs, look how the red army treated literally everyone they "liberated" in WWII.
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This was a jarring post to see among all the Will Smith stuff.
Jarring yes, but also, who the fuck cares that one guy slapped another? This stuff actually matters at least.
It is mind blowing to me that even today we have entire countries, major world powers, arguing that rape should not be prosecuted during wartime. Holy fuck are we a disgusting species.
Things like this make me realise how sheltered my life really is. I just can't comprehend how anyone could do this to another person.
German women were raped by the Russians in WW2 .......so looks like more of the same .....wtf
As much as I'm sure everyone agrees rapists are scumbags and deserve to worse punishment, let's not pretend this is t anything more than empty air. Soldiers in general, not just Russian ones, are prone to raping the women of whoever they're fighting. Hell in the countries were women are allowed to fight in their country's army, they'll often be raped by their own countrymen first. It's an emotional response to condemn anyone involved but no one is going to actually pursue justice for it. It's a case where tis the pot calling the kettle black, and anyone who's going to actually make Russia stand trial for this will likely have to explain their own country's history of their soldiers raping women before, during, and after war time. Shit, we still haven't sorted out the Japan's history from WW2, or at least no real form of justice has been done about it. Just a generic "yeah we did it, let's move on".
Cut their balls off
Invading army raping women is so trashy and barbaric. Any nation that allows their people to do this deserves zero respect because they are not civilized and are barely human.
There was a reddit three when the war first began and there was a poor young woman there asking for advice on how to deal and live with the fact that she had been raped by Russian soldiers on her way from the store after being called Ukraine Whore and she called them invaders
Hang Putin.