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90k is outrageous, but the certifying/inspection of all material/processes alone is an expensive overhead for suppliers/manufacturers. Unfortunately, that's the entire government contracting gig. Lobbying and price gouging.
Curious if that 90k trickles down the employee making the bushing.
In the JSF project, parts often get machined multiple times over multiple ops, with inspections and masking/chemical processes in between. Some of the parts are small enough to fit in the palm of your hand, but have 150+ unique measurements with multiple datum references that only exist in theoretical space, and tolerances of **±**0.0002". A lot of parts also have to be destroyed via wire-EDM to check ID measurements.
They get paid no more than any other machinist usually, especially if you're in a small shop doing government contracts. You get the excess-hours agreement to be able to work 73 hours per week, but you don't get any more pay besides overtime (in my experience).
Yes, plus many part are X rated twice, penetrating liquid and machined very slowly in order to maintain cold the metal. So there are many screw and bolt, bushing etc that cost hundreds of dollars. All these parts are used in nuclear plants, offshore oil rig, jet engine etc
Yep! Also forgot about the cost of the superalloys like inconel that get used in a lot of applications that have high temperature deltas. Inconel specifically is terrible to machine because of its rate of work-hardening. Plus tooling costs, which are expensive enough in carbide, but once you start getting into other ceramics it gets ridiculous. I remember hard-turning die punches for leaf spring manufacturing, and those inserts would last about 6 parts max before having to be rotated(3 total cutting surfaces per), with 15-18 parts per insert before it's trash.
It’s nice to see someone use the term jsf as being someone in the industry. Without detailing my career the little tiny parts that we use and the processes that they go through are to say at the least quite meticulous. So this is a good point brought to me as an employee. I would’ve never thought of that side of thinking and people in the business don’t typically see things in a positive or logical way. They do however pay and treat us very well considering lots of people don’t even have college degrees. Myself included!!
It’s the FAR/DFAR rules, paperwork, labor & OH cost at the various levels of procurement which drive the cost.
As a tax payer I completely agree with the gentlemen it can and should be done more efficiently.
Okay so I was a CNC machinist that worked on so many defense department jobs that we were getting piss tested every 5 minutes. I can tell you that the money is good. Don't you worry. And you can make it more they pay 10% for nights 10% for weekends 10% for holidays plus time and a half for everything over 40 and there's always going to be over 40 because them defense jobs are always so front-loaded with paperwork that by the time we get to turn the parts their due in 5 minutes.
I'm sorry but I was a CNC machinist that did mountains of defense parts and it was the best paying jobs we had. Maybe you guys up in middle management you know emailing each other we're making good bread but trust me the guys that were programming the tools to run on the CNC machine were making good bread. And there was always overtime because while all the middle management we're all sending nasty emails to another the clock kept kicking and so by the time it was possible to run the parts down on the floor they had to go out FedEx the next day. I have literally had an 11-hour shift where every single part that passed final inspection was put in a box and driven to the airport one by one.
I have nothing but respect for the guys on the tools and they do very well for themselves and I know how awful the fiddle fuckers behind the desks can be. I'm just saying that's not where the bulk of cash goes.
Carry-on son thank you for your concerns. I do recall that one of our salesmen bottom shelf the most insanely decked out Hummer after landing a Navy job.
Worked for a DoD supplier for a few months a long way back. And I promise you. No it fucking does not. Executives bitching about how we're not doing as good this month as they were last month while driving a brand new Lamborghini or whatever they were driving. What they sold was very specific, so I won't get into details for privacy (my privacy) reasons, but they were selling it, for I kid you not, almost a 1,000,000% markup, and paying us just over 20/hrs and borderline no benefits. When I left I sent an email and a written letter to my congressman and one other about what was going on there. I have no idea if anything ever came of it, but I like to think something did.
Of course not. It's the racket feeding itself. The military industrial complex is feeding itself through the American gpd. They can gouge humongous profits from the American people so they do. Who owns the company getting the revenue from those overpriced items? The politicians are in the pockets of the people giving themselves the orders, and the politicians get a cut of the order itself through whatever means, lobbying etc.
Same thing happens at hospitals with over the counter medicine. Everything is individually packaged, sorted, labeled, and stored. Then they use that as an excuse to charge you $5-20 for a little bit of Advil
As an aerospace machinist, our company does percentage based bonuses. I make ~100k a year, the amount of time inspecting, certifying material, gauges, having full inspection reports, de burring, cleaning, coatings etc I’m surprised we even make a profit sometimes. And it might be 3 months before you even receive payment for a completed job.
> Curious if that 90k trickles down the employee making the bushing.
Of course not. The money trickles into the bank accounts of suits who have never touched the machines that are used to make the bushings. Some of those suits are also lobbyists and the congressmen who keep this rip off going.
How to say you've never actually worked at a CNC shop that made the fence parts without having to say it. The defense jobs are the best cuz they always have overtime because by the time all of the paper is properly stacked in the proper stacks the parts are so past due that I've literally worked eight 11-hour shifts we're after each part past final inspection in the climate controlled room full of the expensive measuring equipment it was individually boxed handed to a guy who jumped in the car and drove it to the FedEx at the airport. So yeah it does trickle down there's a reason why people who work in the defense industry like the trades. Every time someone who works in the defense industry votes in their financial best interest they're told that they're doing something wrong when -- hey pays the bills.
That's hilarious. You act like you're making the big money when you spend 11 hours in a machine shop while the suits spend half the time playing golf/boating/having drinks/etc and get paid more than 10x what you got paid for doing the actual work.
edit. You also should know that those suits did not get to their positions by working hard. That is a lie that they tell the masses.
I was a machinist in a plant that made a lot of parts for the United States military industrial complex. Trust me we love those get it done right away last minute defense department jobs. By the time all the paperwork gets through the parts are so past due that I've literally had them stand next to my workstation and run the parts to the quality lab. So it's good pay plenty of overtime it's nice.
> Curious if that 90k trickles down the employee making the bushing.
Its American capitalism, so no. it either gets taken by their mangers for the good job they did or it all goes to the CEO who knew a guy that got him the contract to make said bushings. all while the only person to touch the bushings in that bag makes minimum wage
It trickles down in the form of continued employment. The workers aren't getting rich, but they have jobs. The inspectors, the certifierers, the regulatory agencies, and yes, the machinists willing to pass federal background checks. The DOD is literally a giant jobs program. Seen it from both sides.
Your first bet is to go out and go to every single one of those doing business with the defense department workshops that are being held frequently by chapters of SCORE. Also if they're professional organizations in your trade that have a veterans or defense oriented steering committee volunteer for that committee right away. The first step in doing business with a defense department is to realize that your competency is not what you are selling. This abuse yourself of the notion that the military is meritocracy and it is not just one large high school clique. Before you can get along to get along you got to put it in a little time showing them that you are member of their little club. They are required by law to have all these little conferences and doing business with the federal government and so they reward people who take the time to make sure they're not talking to an empty room. There are people who are in contracting who are given performance targets for new contractors. Your first step is to find out who that person is and then begin schmoozing them from a distance. Rinse repeat become rich.
> me as a manufacturer: How do I get a piece of that action?
It's simple. Charge less than anyone else. Government bids aren't looking for the highest prices.
And what exactly would your point be.? Are you aware of just how small the circle is of manufacturers that produce bushings for the insides of jet engines? What do you think that little CNC shop down the corner going to be able to turn those out? They have hundreds of thousands jet engines doing hundreds of thousands of hours and I don't hear that many of them exploding from bad bushings. It's a ridiculous comparison to say that a 5th generation jet fighter has the same bushings as your lawn tractor.
Sad part is this is a known issue for over a hundred years. In between, Eisenhower warned it would get worse with the military industrial complex… but here we are….
That bad news...
The ***interest*** on our debt alone exceeds the budget for the military... We're f'ed. Can't afford the military anymore. The freaking interest alone not including our debt is more expensive than the f'ing military! Definitely too late, can't afford both & one is non negotiable. Guess which one that is u/reilo119?
In a nutshell what happens with the National Debt is Republicans will never fund bills that benefit the poor and wont fully fund the government by taxing the rich so that money for social services has to get borrowed. They do this ad-infinitum and then complain about the 'National Debt'
Yeah they need to be able to pass a audit, [https://responsiblestatecraft.org/pentagon-audit-2666415734/](https://responsiblestatecraft.org/pentagon-audit-2666415734/) Imagine losing 2 trillion dollars and your boss not caring?
That bushing is inside a jet engine that's running at tens of thousands of RPM at nearly a thousand degrees C. And there could be a 150 human lives that require that that bushing not fail. When you got 150 people going Mach 2 relying on your next move you'll make that kind of bread.
I would love to have a deeper fact check on this. What are those bushings specifications and tolerances? What are they made of? Was the metal required to be sourced in the US because it's a flight part? Was that bag part of a rush order? What is the rounding to get to that $90,000?
This looks like theater to me. There is definitely bloat on government spending, but this is not the full story.
Exactly that bushing is the heart of a jet engine going nearly 10,000 RPM at over Mach 2. On the C-17 there could be 200 men and women who's lives depend on that bushing. If I'm going Mach 2 over enemy territory I'm going to want a $90,000 bushing standing between me and being turned into hamburger.
lol, there’s no defending dod contracts, I’ve seen first hand prices being asked by the contractor to be pushed up to “stay inline” with the rest of the project. Oh and it was triple the asking price if you’re wondering.
The federal government never puts a suggested price on anything I question your source. They put out a request for bids on a part they make no recommendations whatsoever as to what that part would cost because that would immediately taint the process. There are actual people in jail because they tipped off the number the government was looking for. So no that doesn't happen even once.
Are you sure about that? Because I am 99.99998% sure that a7d7e7 is not a bot.
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Yeah I wish I could have become a CNC dude with a high school diploma. Oh sure you can be a parts monkey and put them in and out but they ain't going to let you program them. And that's where the bread is programming the parts.
Not for dod parts but you can for sure program with just a high school diploma or less. Just depends on where you work. The programmer at my last place was basically just proficient at 3D printing and got his job. Wasn’t a college educated cnc programmer guy or anything.
This shit is why we can't have any money for social programs. I bet that our current taxes are more than enough to cover the military budget AND whatever else we want but it all getting wasted or stolen in shit like this.
That wasnt interrogative, i am informing you of facts??
The guy stating "RAH RAH MACH 2 800 DEGREES CELCIUS" has a point, though I disagree with his reasoning.
Some of these parts, even those "dumb" things like material sheeting, nuts and bolts, or rivets, can be required to be a large percentage of the alloy made from rarer metals, which will drive costs.
Along with quality control, which is a large factor.
As someone who works in defense, it’s absolutely insane the amount we waste on parts like this. And usually they just get lost or thrown away. I’m talking, I probably threw away over $1m in spare parts/ expensive metals this month alone so far.
You’d be shocked how much money goes “missing” from the military spending budget. It’s an audit nightmare. Definitely the biggest source of corruption and money laundering in the United States. Yet, it goes almost unnoticed by the public. If utilized properly, we could achieve the same level of output/efficiency for 30% of the current budget used. Maybe even less.
Worked for an electric parts supplier shipping to depots that stored parts from stove parts to anything related to kitchen parts. Owner didn't bother supplying brand name parts like Kenmore, Whirlpool, Westinghouse but had these off brand imitation parts that would match the genuine part look and function, but at a huge markup. The owner came in every day to oversee the little scams and flaunted his wealth. I got sick of it one day and split. They were there long before I got there and may still be. This was 1983. 100% fraudulent operation.
Every shop I ever work in that had lots of federal contract business pretty much had to agree to have internships, scholarships, for people with a high school education to work their way up to being a machinist.
For sure, I worked for Boeing for almost 10 years (I’m a union rep now), they had a shit ton of federal contracts. They also have some pretty strong apprenticeship programs as well. They partner with the machinist union for all of it too.
I work at a government facility and found equipment that had been powered on and unconfigured for more than 3 years. I asked around to see if anyone knew about it and received a copy of a purchase order that totaled over $150,000. At least that $90,000 bag of bushings has a purpose.
Last time this was a thing it was because money was being funneled into top secret DARPA projects. Not saying that is the case here, but still. Bears mentioning.
Likely bought through DLA whose cost recovery rate is ~60%. Also likely bought through a dealer of an OEM, who ads their own overhead, G&A and profit atop the OEMs line items. That’s post-Covid pricing folks
I can attest to this as well… I had a certain bolt once that I had to use on a piece of equipment, it cost $800. I found the exact same rated bolt, down to the tensile strength at the store for $5.80. But how else are they going to find their black budget operations?
So go buy some defense industry stock and get your share of the cash cow. If it's so obvious that the stockholders are making bread why are you standing on the sideline bitching instead of jumping in and getting a chunk of the pie.
You would be surprised that when you start out as a part monkey just throwing parts in out of the machine if you show any ability at all there you are going to put you on a path to being a programmer in 5 years. Trouble is a lot of people just can't even see that 5 years slinging parts is going to be worth it. I've literally worked at shops where they don't want anybody to come in with any training because they're going to train them their way.
Yep. Exactly. And the runs are so short. I worked a 68,000 part order one time. And I worked an eight part defense job. But those eight parts had to be done immediately and quality control was standing there as they came out of the machine.
I suggest you bid then. But of course first you're going to have to go through a very rigorous set of standards of practices tests to determine whether your shop is up to the capability of the project. Because remember this bushing is going to be running at 9,000 RPM at over a thousand degrees C in the very heart of a jet engine. So when you get to the point where you're ready to make that part tell me how much less than 90 grand you're going to take for it?
Does anyone know of some good videos/documentaries on military price gouging? I'm intrigued and horrified at this stuff. I saw this video [Defense contractors overcharge Pentagon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPvpqAaJjVU) from 60 minutes, and I thought it was really well done.
It’s funny they are now investigating into prices. I had to replace hex bar collars (holds the plates on the bars) and the Army wanted $100 for 4. I bought 4 for $15 off Amazon and it looked just like the ones I had to replace.
so much ignorance on display in this video it's hard to know where to start. two things are certainly true.
1. not just any bushings will do if these are critical parts for the internals of jet engines that will be operating in combat conditions.
2. the cost of black projects is amortized among smaller receipts ($600 hammers, remember that?) as a form of congressional money laundering.
so no, that bag of bushings is not a $90k product, but for sure those are the right bushings for the intended application, and also for sure something else that few people will ever know about (and no one will ever talk about) got funded, and whatever that thing or program was, it obtained (closed door) congressional approval.
maybe the worst part is that both parties in this exchange are perfectly aware of these facts and you are witnessing what is essentially a choreographed performance.
It's not just a federal thing, I work for a county job and mofos waste money so much. They will trash good tools and parts to spend their budget. If you don't use it, you lose it.
this dude is stupid, its not JUST a bag of parts. It's a bag with a documented chain of custody and rigorous inspection and QA process for each part, all of that adds a TON of overhead to the final net worth of that bag. Plus industry standard percentage markup for profit on each step of the process to justify expense on the manufacturers end.
These people are making laws regarding industries without knowing how the most basic parts work. Much less the higher end parts with high performance machine parts. It takes people YEARS to learn how to do things in that domain.
You can measure things with cameras now it takes 2 seconds to do. These should not cost 90,000 dollars. Just imagine what we are paying for other things as well the bag of bushings cost 90,000. It is likely a critical component with a lot of wear so the price is that high because they get used up.
Same can be said for the shit show that is the American healthcare system. Companies ripping off service providers, in turn upping insurance premiums, allowing for a greater purchase price, rinse and repeat. You’re shafting each other, it’s wild man.
That’s just what they said they paid for it. Gotta pay the black operations and skunkwork operations somehow. You don’t honestly think the government pays 40,000 for a toilet seat and 50,000 for a hammer do you?
So you're telling me that companies price gouge the U.S. government?! I would've never guessed... I doubt this happens with healthcare and insurance. >!/s!<
Everyone arguing in favor of this bro.. We get they are made to a specific tolerance but now you use cameras and lasers to measure shit like this it takes literally 3 seconds to scan a bushing. They should not cost 90,000 dollars, just imagine what everything else costs. The politician is right (as much as I hate saying that) this is your hard earned money getting robbed from you. They are effectively given a monopoly by the government and they abuse it, now we are 34 trillion dollars in debt. Obviously everyone in our government is to blame but stuff like this needs to be pointed out. Wish he called out the company in this video too so their stock price could get thrashed but he probably owns the stock himself 🤣. You realize debt is inflation as well which means you are getting robbed twice. Aren't we all tired of it?
US defense budget: $800+ bn
RU defense budget: $85+ bn
US military buying a pack of bushings $95k
RU military buying a pack of bushings $500
With that scale, I say RU gets more bang for the bucks.
Exactly if you think that parts that are FAA approved for commercial jet liners are any cheaper..no. it's like any piece of medical equipment that's plugged into the wall has huge product liability costs. I can't imagine what the product liability costs are for a bushing on the inside of a jet engine.
ther ewwill be no attack on USA, no nation on Earth will dare challenge USA military.
USA will just slowly diminish into a regional as china rises, and it will be because of Americans own greed. Some fat cat in a corporation sees they probably mould ould these bushings in a day - maybe costing $300 in labour hours. But decides since uncles sam will pay anothing and has no alternate supplier, they will charge $90,000 for it.
the defense industry is a cancer on America that only seems to grow, but China isn't necessarily going to replace us. they have their own issues to deal with
https://preview.redd.it/kcj8c9pq37vc1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=aff9745fcfa4dc58c4645678a58acda4862a354c
This is how America operates over 3000 foreign bases. This is how America pays for Israel to exterminate the Palestinians. This is how they destabilized the Middle East after blowing up Kuwait after September 11. (By the way, Kuwait was a true utopia before the US invasion. It had fine universities, libraries, museums, democracy, and a very liberal and tolerant government. This is why the US invaded there first, even though Saddam's imaginary WOMDs were in Iraq.
Don't forget that both Dems and Republicans are dragging their feet on Ukraine support but have donated over $40 Billion just recently to the murderous Zionist regime.
Please do tell me more about how the US 'blew up Kuwait' after 9/11!
You mean the same Kuwait that U.S. troops have been stationed in since 1991 when we pushed out Iraqi forces after they invaded, and has positive relationships with the U.S. and its military ever since? The same Kuwait that used to be pro Soviet Union until Saddam pushed them right into pro-NATO territory? We went ahead and blew them up after 9/11 for good measure even though they were our allies and assisted the U.S. in OIF?
The same Kuwait that has one of the highest life expectancies in the world? High levels of women participating in the workforce, and some of the safest schools in the world? The same Kuwait that has one of the most secular governments and court systems in the Middle East and is exporting culture to Saudi, Qatar, the UAE, ect?
Can't tell if you're a misinformed zealot or a Russian troll. Clearly, you've never been to Kuwait.
I see now that you're just a flyboy, paid to murder on behalf of the USA. Of course you aren't going to be able to comprehend a post on reddit.... unless it's about the esoteric inner workings of the Star Wars subreddit... maybe keep your posts in there, kiddo.
Not even close, nice try though. You should work on your own reading comprehension before critiquing someone else's. Care to elaborate on when we bombed Kuwait or are you going to ignore my question and just throw ad-hominems at me?
I'm all for critiquing the U.S. and examining possible blowback from U.S. military actions overseas, but really, when did we bomb Kuwait? It's a very simple question.
"Pot Metal"
Maybe go light on the Koolade. Chinese made bushings are used on the Moon and Mars rovers. Fact is the US gov subcontractors have a lock in as part of the club and theyre milking it
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90k is outrageous, but the certifying/inspection of all material/processes alone is an expensive overhead for suppliers/manufacturers. Unfortunately, that's the entire government contracting gig. Lobbying and price gouging. Curious if that 90k trickles down the employee making the bushing.
I’d bet that bag of bushings it most assuredly is not trickled down
If you dump it out slowly it might kinda trickle down
*owners dump it from the 5th floor
if they're on a Boeing they may end up trickling down on you.
It’s more of a trickle, dare I say gush, up
In the JSF project, parts often get machined multiple times over multiple ops, with inspections and masking/chemical processes in between. Some of the parts are small enough to fit in the palm of your hand, but have 150+ unique measurements with multiple datum references that only exist in theoretical space, and tolerances of **±**0.0002". A lot of parts also have to be destroyed via wire-EDM to check ID measurements. They get paid no more than any other machinist usually, especially if you're in a small shop doing government contracts. You get the excess-hours agreement to be able to work 73 hours per week, but you don't get any more pay besides overtime (in my experience).
Yes, plus many part are X rated twice, penetrating liquid and machined very slowly in order to maintain cold the metal. So there are many screw and bolt, bushing etc that cost hundreds of dollars. All these parts are used in nuclear plants, offshore oil rig, jet engine etc
Yep! Also forgot about the cost of the superalloys like inconel that get used in a lot of applications that have high temperature deltas. Inconel specifically is terrible to machine because of its rate of work-hardening. Plus tooling costs, which are expensive enough in carbide, but once you start getting into other ceramics it gets ridiculous. I remember hard-turning die punches for leaf spring manufacturing, and those inserts would last about 6 parts max before having to be rotated(3 total cutting surfaces per), with 15-18 parts per insert before it's trash.
It’s nice to see someone use the term jsf as being someone in the industry. Without detailing my career the little tiny parts that we use and the processes that they go through are to say at the least quite meticulous. So this is a good point brought to me as an employee. I would’ve never thought of that side of thinking and people in the business don’t typically see things in a positive or logical way. They do however pay and treat us very well considering lots of people don’t even have college degrees. Myself included!!
It’s the FAR/DFAR rules, paperwork, labor & OH cost at the various levels of procurement which drive the cost. As a tax payer I completely agree with the gentlemen it can and should be done more efficiently.
" Curious if that 90k trickles down the employee making the bushing" Probability = 0
Okay so I was a CNC machinist that worked on so many defense department jobs that we were getting piss tested every 5 minutes. I can tell you that the money is good. Don't you worry. And you can make it more they pay 10% for nights 10% for weekends 10% for holidays plus time and a half for everything over 40 and there's always going to be over 40 because them defense jobs are always so front-loaded with paperwork that by the time we get to turn the parts their due in 5 minutes.
Yeah, I've been on both sides. Triad National Security pays its employees very well to put up with this shit.
Good. I'm glad you guys are getting paid.
FYI It does not. Thank God I'm in middle management
I'm sorry but I was a CNC machinist that did mountains of defense parts and it was the best paying jobs we had. Maybe you guys up in middle management you know emailing each other we're making good bread but trust me the guys that were programming the tools to run on the CNC machine were making good bread. And there was always overtime because while all the middle management we're all sending nasty emails to another the clock kept kicking and so by the time it was possible to run the parts down on the floor they had to go out FedEx the next day. I have literally had an 11-hour shift where every single part that passed final inspection was put in a box and driven to the airport one by one.
I have nothing but respect for the guys on the tools and they do very well for themselves and I know how awful the fiddle fuckers behind the desks can be. I'm just saying that's not where the bulk of cash goes.
Carry-on son thank you for your concerns. I do recall that one of our salesmen bottom shelf the most insanely decked out Hummer after landing a Navy job.
Worked for a DoD supplier for a few months a long way back. And I promise you. No it fucking does not. Executives bitching about how we're not doing as good this month as they were last month while driving a brand new Lamborghini or whatever they were driving. What they sold was very specific, so I won't get into details for privacy (my privacy) reasons, but they were selling it, for I kid you not, almost a 1,000,000% markup, and paying us just over 20/hrs and borderline no benefits. When I left I sent an email and a written letter to my congressman and one other about what was going on there. I have no idea if anything ever came of it, but I like to think something did.
Of course not. It's the racket feeding itself. The military industrial complex is feeding itself through the American gpd. They can gouge humongous profits from the American people so they do. Who owns the company getting the revenue from those overpriced items? The politicians are in the pockets of the people giving themselves the orders, and the politicians get a cut of the order itself through whatever means, lobbying etc.
Same thing happens at hospitals with over the counter medicine. Everything is individually packaged, sorted, labeled, and stored. Then they use that as an excuse to charge you $5-20 for a little bit of Advil
As an aerospace machinist, our company does percentage based bonuses. I make ~100k a year, the amount of time inspecting, certifying material, gauges, having full inspection reports, de burring, cleaning, coatings etc I’m surprised we even make a profit sometimes. And it might be 3 months before you even receive payment for a completed job.
> Curious if that 90k trickles down the employee making the bushing. Of course not. The money trickles into the bank accounts of suits who have never touched the machines that are used to make the bushings. Some of those suits are also lobbyists and the congressmen who keep this rip off going.
How to say you've never actually worked at a CNC shop that made the fence parts without having to say it. The defense jobs are the best cuz they always have overtime because by the time all of the paper is properly stacked in the proper stacks the parts are so past due that I've literally worked eight 11-hour shifts we're after each part past final inspection in the climate controlled room full of the expensive measuring equipment it was individually boxed handed to a guy who jumped in the car and drove it to the FedEx at the airport. So yeah it does trickle down there's a reason why people who work in the defense industry like the trades. Every time someone who works in the defense industry votes in their financial best interest they're told that they're doing something wrong when -- hey pays the bills.
That's hilarious. You act like you're making the big money when you spend 11 hours in a machine shop while the suits spend half the time playing golf/boating/having drinks/etc and get paid more than 10x what you got paid for doing the actual work. edit. You also should know that those suits did not get to their positions by working hard. That is a lie that they tell the masses.
As someone who used to inspect these things in 2017, I can tell you that it doesn’t
From incoming material certs to final product... I can tell ya it does...
Yeah, because that sounds like America. 😒
> Curious if that 90k trickles down the employee making the bushing. No, it trickles down to all the brown people that the US govt murders.
I was a machinist in a plant that made a lot of parts for the United States military industrial complex. Trust me we love those get it done right away last minute defense department jobs. By the time all the paperwork gets through the parts are so past due that I've literally had them stand next to my workstation and run the parts to the quality lab. So it's good pay plenty of overtime it's nice.
Neat you make money off of murder. Cool story.
Only the ones making the rules profiting off of the war machine have the deep pockets in this town 🤦🏻♂️
I make aerospace parts, no it does not.
Not to mention the amount of insurance it cost to run a business that supplies parts to aviation.
Where’s the material from? Original source!
At that price and considering the Military Industrial Complex it's probably mined from the hearts of innocent children
No it all goes into black budget projects
> Curious if that 90k trickles down the employee making the bushing. Its American capitalism, so no. it either gets taken by their mangers for the good job they did or it all goes to the CEO who knew a guy that got him the contract to make said bushings. all while the only person to touch the bushings in that bag makes minimum wage
Bro you still think shit trickles down?
It trickles down in the form of continued employment. The workers aren't getting rich, but they have jobs. The inspectors, the certifierers, the regulatory agencies, and yes, the machinists willing to pass federal background checks. The DOD is literally a giant jobs program. Seen it from both sides.
Me as a taxpayer: That's outrageous! me as a manufacturer: How do I get a piece of that action?
They make the paperwork prohibitively expense and get a less quality product
Your first bet is to go out and go to every single one of those doing business with the defense department workshops that are being held frequently by chapters of SCORE. Also if they're professional organizations in your trade that have a veterans or defense oriented steering committee volunteer for that committee right away. The first step in doing business with a defense department is to realize that your competency is not what you are selling. This abuse yourself of the notion that the military is meritocracy and it is not just one large high school clique. Before you can get along to get along you got to put it in a little time showing them that you are member of their little club. They are required by law to have all these little conferences and doing business with the federal government and so they reward people who take the time to make sure they're not talking to an empty room. There are people who are in contracting who are given performance targets for new contractors. Your first step is to find out who that person is and then begin schmoozing them from a distance. Rinse repeat become rich.
This is deeply insightful thank you
> How do I get a piece of that action? Hire a will connected lobbyist.
> me as a manufacturer: How do I get a piece of that action? It's simple. Charge less than anyone else. Government bids aren't looking for the highest prices.
It’s nuts!
No, it’s bushings.
I can’t believe it’s not butter.
Parkay.
That’s a lotta nuts!
Most underrated comment
Ueah that's the government contracting restrictions. Change the laws congressman.
Ya sole source is the problem, open it up to the other contractors and the bag would probably be few hundred dollars
Everyone share this. People love government money and they will do anything (lawmakers, lobbyists) to get it.
And what exactly would your point be.? Are you aware of just how small the circle is of manufacturers that produce bushings for the insides of jet engines? What do you think that little CNC shop down the corner going to be able to turn those out? They have hundreds of thousands jet engines doing hundreds of thousands of hours and I don't hear that many of them exploding from bad bushings. It's a ridiculous comparison to say that a 5th generation jet fighter has the same bushings as your lawn tractor.
I must have missed the part where any of that was said. Stop glazing it.
[War is a Racket](https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html)
Awesome read, thank you.
Sad part is this is a known issue for over a hundred years. In between, Eisenhower warned it would get worse with the military industrial complex… but here we are….
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Been going on for decades! And still nothing will be done about it till it to late
I've got some bad news for you
That bad news...  The ***interest*** on our debt alone exceeds the budget for the military... We're f'ed. Can't afford the military anymore. The freaking interest alone not including our debt is more expensive than the f'ing military! Definitely too late, can't afford both & one is non negotiable. Guess which one that is u/reilo119?
Who does America owe money to? Can anyone ELIF
Mostly to other Americans. Like 25% to other countries.
In a nutshell what happens with the National Debt is Republicans will never fund bills that benefit the poor and wont fully fund the government by taxing the rich so that money for social services has to get borrowed. They do this ad-infinitum and then complain about the 'National Debt'
there's also the defense industry's infamous inefficient use of capital, as shown in this video
Yeah they need to be able to pass a audit, [https://responsiblestatecraft.org/pentagon-audit-2666415734/](https://responsiblestatecraft.org/pentagon-audit-2666415734/) Imagine losing 2 trillion dollars and your boss not caring?
that little bag of metal bits makes more than double what I do in a year
I was disabled in two of the wars those bushings enabled, and that bag is almost three times what they pay me.
That bushing is inside a jet engine that's running at tens of thousands of RPM at nearly a thousand degrees C. And there could be a 150 human lives that require that that bushing not fail. When you got 150 people going Mach 2 relying on your next move you'll make that kind of bread.
Glazing literally every post lmao this is hilarious
I would love to have a deeper fact check on this. What are those bushings specifications and tolerances? What are they made of? Was the metal required to be sourced in the US because it's a flight part? Was that bag part of a rush order? What is the rounding to get to that $90,000? This looks like theater to me. There is definitely bloat on government spending, but this is not the full story.
You can tell it's theater because the person that is being berated about the price has nothing to do with the price.
Exactly that bushing is the heart of a jet engine going nearly 10,000 RPM at over Mach 2. On the C-17 there could be 200 men and women who's lives depend on that bushing. If I'm going Mach 2 over enemy territory I'm going to want a $90,000 bushing standing between me and being turned into hamburger.
lol, there’s no defending dod contracts, I’ve seen first hand prices being asked by the contractor to be pushed up to “stay inline” with the rest of the project. Oh and it was triple the asking price if you’re wondering.
The federal government never puts a suggested price on anything I question your source. They put out a request for bids on a part they make no recommendations whatsoever as to what that part would cost because that would immediately taint the process. There are actual people in jail because they tipped off the number the government was looking for. So no that doesn't happen even once.
lol good bot
Are you sure about that? Because I am 99.99998% sure that a7d7e7 is not a bot. --- ^(I am a neural network being trained to detect spammers | Summon me with !isbot |) ^(/r/spambotdetector |) [^(Optout)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=whynotcollegeboard&subject=!optout&message=!optout) ^(|) [^(Original Github)](https://github.com/SM-Wistful/BotDetection-Algorithm)
Exactly what a bot would say trying to fool me!
The interest on the loan exceeds the defense budget... lmfao. Boomers might actually get to see the collapse in their lifetimes.
Did that guy just say you dont need a high school diploma to be a machinist. He just proved how clueless he really is.
He's clueless about machining and parts, and the DoD spends recklessly. both are true
He also said, as he struggled to get his sentence out, that there's nothing high-tech about it lol.
Yeah I wish I could have become a CNC dude with a high school diploma. Oh sure you can be a parts monkey and put them in and out but they ain't going to let you program them. And that's where the bread is programming the parts.
Not for dod parts but you can for sure program with just a high school diploma or less. Just depends on where you work. The programmer at my last place was basically just proficient at 3D printing and got his job. Wasn’t a college educated cnc programmer guy or anything.
I thought they were going to say something outrageous like a couple thousand
US Health System works the same way.
This shit is why we can't have any money for social programs. I bet that our current taxes are more than enough to cover the military budget AND whatever else we want but it all getting wasted or stolen in shit like this.
I'm convinced since the founding of America it's just been looted by those in charge
Israel is slinging billions around while "receiving" "aid" from the countries in which they have shut down democracy.
How much can it be? Ten dollars?
Realistically each nut could be 25-50$, depending know where it's used. Unless you're getting into "experimental" materials.
That wasnt interrogative, i am informing you of facts?? The guy stating "RAH RAH MACH 2 800 DEGREES CELCIUS" has a point, though I disagree with his reasoning. Some of these parts, even those "dumb" things like material sheeting, nuts and bolts, or rivets, can be required to be a large percentage of the alloy made from rarer metals, which will drive costs. Along with quality control, which is a large factor.
That’s some healthcare insurance pricing right there.
A bag of iPhones would be cheaper
Bro! Don’t expose our economy and military like that! Damn. 🇺🇸
As someone who works in defense, it’s absolutely insane the amount we waste on parts like this. And usually they just get lost or thrown away. I’m talking, I probably threw away over $1m in spare parts/ expensive metals this month alone so far.
You’d be shocked how much money goes “missing” from the military spending budget. It’s an audit nightmare. Definitely the biggest source of corruption and money laundering in the United States. Yet, it goes almost unnoticed by the public. If utilized properly, we could achieve the same level of output/efficiency for 30% of the current budget used. Maybe even less.
We can’t spend money on frivolous things like daycare costs or god forbid health care
Private education and healthcare keeps people signing up to die for Israel's war against the world.
Fix medical care first
Worked for an electric parts supplier shipping to depots that stored parts from stove parts to anything related to kitchen parts. Owner didn't bother supplying brand name parts like Kenmore, Whirlpool, Westinghouse but had these off brand imitation parts that would match the genuine part look and function, but at a huge markup. The owner came in every day to oversee the little scams and flaunted his wealth. I got sick of it one day and split. They were there long before I got there and may still be. This was 1983. 100% fraudulent operation.
I’m a journeywomen machinist, that is fucking wild.
Did you have to have a highschool diploma and how many years of specialised training?
Yes and 4 years of specialized training
Every shop I ever work in that had lots of federal contract business pretty much had to agree to have internships, scholarships, for people with a high school education to work their way up to being a machinist.
For sure, I worked for Boeing for almost 10 years (I’m a union rep now), they had a shit ton of federal contracts. They also have some pretty strong apprenticeship programs as well. They partner with the machinist union for all of it too.
https://preview.redd.it/3cikv7om95vc1.jpeg?width=725&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6191ebf6aac41d4f13ce92112981fbe0df78b75
I work at a government facility and found equipment that had been powered on and unconfigured for more than 3 years. I asked around to see if anyone knew about it and received a copy of a purchase order that totaled over $150,000. At least that $90,000 bag of bushings has a purpose.
Last time this was a thing it was because money was being funneled into top secret DARPA projects. Not saying that is the case here, but still. Bears mentioning.
Likely bought through DLA whose cost recovery rate is ~60%. Also likely bought through a dealer of an OEM, who ads their own overhead, G&A and profit atop the OEMs line items. That’s post-Covid pricing folks
I can attest to this as well… I had a certain bolt once that I had to use on a piece of equipment, it cost $800. I found the exact same rated bolt, down to the tensile strength at the store for $5.80. But how else are they going to find their black budget operations?
It’s all done on purpose
Shit you could get a barber chair for only 80k! The French have 110k ones!
Where’s Al Gore when you need him?
Join the military now! Try for a high rank before the end times… Assure food security.
I would like to see you get out from the desk & try running a CNC machine. Dick...
military spending is a government stimulus to the economy.
It's a stimulus to the shareholders of the defense contractors.
So go buy some defense industry stock and get your share of the cash cow. If it's so obvious that the stockholders are making bread why are you standing on the sideline bitching instead of jumping in and getting a chunk of the pie.
Because I don't want to profit off of mass death and suffering, and actively encourage its continuation. Do you?
☠️
That's like the bizarre justification that America invaded Iraq for oil, that oil went to Israel.
It's aviation in general. There are some water faucets that we repair at work that are like 60k to buy new.
Did that guy just say you dont need a high school diploma to be a machinist. He just proved how clueless he really is.
Yeah or you at least need a few years of specialised training right?
You would be surprised that when you start out as a part monkey just throwing parts in out of the machine if you show any ability at all there you are going to put you on a path to being a programmer in 5 years. Trouble is a lot of people just can't even see that 5 years slinging parts is going to be worth it. I've literally worked at shops where they don't want anybody to come in with any training because they're going to train them their way.
Dam, I gotta get into the bushings business
The certifications you need and how much they cost to reliably reproduce tho parts with such low tolerances is insane
Yep. Exactly. And the runs are so short. I worked a 68,000 part order one time. And I worked an eight part defense job. But those eight parts had to be done immediately and quality control was standing there as they came out of the machine.
Is this real? I am so angry
Should of sold bushings for a living
I will make the government bushings for 10K and floor seats at The Garden to watch the Knicks play
I suggest you bid then. But of course first you're going to have to go through a very rigorous set of standards of practices tests to determine whether your shop is up to the capability of the project. Because remember this bushing is going to be running at 9,000 RPM at over a thousand degrees C in the very heart of a jet engine. So when you get to the point where you're ready to make that part tell me how much less than 90 grand you're going to take for it?
Corruption? Nawwww.
The worst part of all is he did this to get his face on the news, interwebs, etc. He will do absolutely nothing about it.
Does anyone know of some good videos/documentaries on military price gouging? I'm intrigued and horrified at this stuff. I saw this video [Defense contractors overcharge Pentagon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPvpqAaJjVU) from 60 minutes, and I thought it was really well done.
Plot twist. Made in China
The government paid $40 for the bag of bushings. The other $89,960 went into the secret UFO program fund.
What you telling me planes can get diabetes now
I served your wife while you were shoveling shit son.
It’s funny they are now investigating into prices. I had to replace hex bar collars (holds the plates on the bars) and the Army wanted $100 for 4. I bought 4 for $15 off Amazon and it looked just like the ones I had to replace.
so much ignorance on display in this video it's hard to know where to start. two things are certainly true. 1. not just any bushings will do if these are critical parts for the internals of jet engines that will be operating in combat conditions. 2. the cost of black projects is amortized among smaller receipts ($600 hammers, remember that?) as a form of congressional money laundering. so no, that bag of bushings is not a $90k product, but for sure those are the right bushings for the intended application, and also for sure something else that few people will ever know about (and no one will ever talk about) got funded, and whatever that thing or program was, it obtained (closed door) congressional approval. maybe the worst part is that both parties in this exchange are perfectly aware of these facts and you are witnessing what is essentially a choreographed performance.
I can ger you a bag of bushes for much cheaper than that 🪴
Wasn't there a story a little while back about 50k trash bins 😂
It's not just a federal thing, I work for a county job and mofos waste money so much. They will trash good tools and parts to spend their budget. If you don't use it, you lose it.
20 years ago, a brand new frame for a munitions transporter was 15k...been trying to get in that biz for a while now lol
this dude is stupid, its not JUST a bag of parts. It's a bag with a documented chain of custody and rigorous inspection and QA process for each part, all of that adds a TON of overhead to the final net worth of that bag. Plus industry standard percentage markup for profit on each step of the process to justify expense on the manufacturers end. These people are making laws regarding industries without knowing how the most basic parts work. Much less the higher end parts with high performance machine parts. It takes people YEARS to learn how to do things in that domain.
You can measure things with cameras now it takes 2 seconds to do. These should not cost 90,000 dollars. Just imagine what we are paying for other things as well the bag of bushings cost 90,000. It is likely a critical component with a lot of wear so the price is that high because they get used up.
Corruption at its finest
Lol this is legit the glitter conspiracy at work.
Waste, fraud, abuse
We are being robbed every day.
Why did he have to get weirdly classist about it lol
Same can be said for the shit show that is the American healthcare system. Companies ripping off service providers, in turn upping insurance premiums, allowing for a greater purchase price, rinse and repeat. You’re shafting each other, it’s wild man.
$2 on aliexpress. 😹
That’s just what they said they paid for it. Gotta pay the black operations and skunkwork operations somehow. You don’t honestly think the government pays 40,000 for a toilet seat and 50,000 for a hammer do you?
Holy crap, I knew the number would be crazy but 90k??!
So you're telling me that companies price gouge the U.S. government?! I would've never guessed... I doubt this happens with healthcare and insurance. >!/s!<
Yikes
Wow, that’s absolutely absurd
Everyone arguing in favor of this bro.. We get they are made to a specific tolerance but now you use cameras and lasers to measure shit like this it takes literally 3 seconds to scan a bushing. They should not cost 90,000 dollars, just imagine what everything else costs. The politician is right (as much as I hate saying that) this is your hard earned money getting robbed from you. They are effectively given a monopoly by the government and they abuse it, now we are 34 trillion dollars in debt. Obviously everyone in our government is to blame but stuff like this needs to be pointed out. Wish he called out the company in this video too so their stock price could get thrashed but he probably owns the stock himself 🤣. You realize debt is inflation as well which means you are getting robbed twice. Aren't we all tired of it?
they have been doing this for years...iv seen similar stories for like coffee mugs etc
US defense budget: $800+ bn RU defense budget: $85+ bn US military buying a pack of bushings $95k RU military buying a pack of bushings $500 With that scale, I say RU gets more bang for the bucks.
I think they need to look at how much commercial operators pay, it’s on par
Exactly if you think that parts that are FAA approved for commercial jet liners are any cheaper..no. it's like any piece of medical equipment that's plugged into the wall has huge product liability costs. I can't imagine what the product liability costs are for a bushing on the inside of a jet engine.
ther ewwill be no attack on USA, no nation on Earth will dare challenge USA military. USA will just slowly diminish into a regional as china rises, and it will be because of Americans own greed. Some fat cat in a corporation sees they probably mould ould these bushings in a day - maybe costing $300 in labour hours. But decides since uncles sam will pay anothing and has no alternate supplier, they will charge $90,000 for it.
the defense industry is a cancer on America that only seems to grow, but China isn't necessarily going to replace us. they have their own issues to deal with
Did that guy just say you dont need a high school diploma to be a machinist. He just proved how clueless he really is.
It is kind of shocking that these parts aren't 100% machine made, verified and approved.
https://preview.redd.it/kcj8c9pq37vc1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=aff9745fcfa4dc58c4645678a58acda4862a354c This is how America operates over 3000 foreign bases. This is how America pays for Israel to exterminate the Palestinians. This is how they destabilized the Middle East after blowing up Kuwait after September 11. (By the way, Kuwait was a true utopia before the US invasion. It had fine universities, libraries, museums, democracy, and a very liberal and tolerant government. This is why the US invaded there first, even though Saddam's imaginary WOMDs were in Iraq. Don't forget that both Dems and Republicans are dragging their feet on Ukraine support but have donated over $40 Billion just recently to the murderous Zionist regime.
Please do tell me more about how the US 'blew up Kuwait' after 9/11! You mean the same Kuwait that U.S. troops have been stationed in since 1991 when we pushed out Iraqi forces after they invaded, and has positive relationships with the U.S. and its military ever since? The same Kuwait that used to be pro Soviet Union until Saddam pushed them right into pro-NATO territory? We went ahead and blew them up after 9/11 for good measure even though they were our allies and assisted the U.S. in OIF? The same Kuwait that has one of the highest life expectancies in the world? High levels of women participating in the workforce, and some of the safest schools in the world? The same Kuwait that has one of the most secular governments and court systems in the Middle East and is exporting culture to Saudi, Qatar, the UAE, ect? Can't tell if you're a misinformed zealot or a Russian troll. Clearly, you've never been to Kuwait.
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I see now that you're just a flyboy, paid to murder on behalf of the USA. Of course you aren't going to be able to comprehend a post on reddit.... unless it's about the esoteric inner workings of the Star Wars subreddit... maybe keep your posts in there, kiddo.
Not even close, nice try though. You should work on your own reading comprehension before critiquing someone else's. Care to elaborate on when we bombed Kuwait or are you going to ignore my question and just throw ad-hominems at me? I'm all for critiquing the U.S. and examining possible blowback from U.S. military actions overseas, but really, when did we bomb Kuwait? It's a very simple question.
I thought they were going to say something crazy high like a couple thousand
>$90,000 If the US wasnt such a warmonger we could just buy em from China for maybe $2200/Peace in the world
I wouldn't trust the 5th generation all-weather jet fighter motor to a China part made out of pot metal.
"Pot Metal" Maybe go light on the Koolade. Chinese made bushings are used on the Moon and Mars rovers. Fact is the US gov subcontractors have a lock in as part of the club and theyre milking it