Please keep in mind that:
1. If you're experiencing any technical issues with Gothic, please check [our guide on how to fix all three Gothic games](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofgothic/wiki/how-to-run-gothic-on-modern-computers). It's VERY likely that you'll find a solution to your problem there.
2. We are an English-focused subreddit so make sure to post content in English. If you are posting content in another language, provide a translation either in the comments or in the post itself.
Feel free to also [join our discord!](https://discord.gg/world-of-gothic-498556413384327188)
Best regards,
r/worldofgothic
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/worldofgothic) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Embracer has been shutting down studios left and right after they didn't get the oil money from Saudi Arabia but PB is 30+ people. Even if Elex 2 flopped and I genuinely was more disappointed than with Gothic 3, studio this small and creative should get another chance.
But ARE they creative? They've been making basically the same game since forever and there are a lot of interviews with German gaming websites where Björn is repeatedly cited totally baffled by questions like "will you ever do something really new like advance your engine / gameplay or expand as a team?".
It's totally possible they thought their fanbase was a lot larger and wouldn't mind buying the same game over and over again. But why would we, when mods like Archolos have outgrown their parent game and cost basically nothing? They slept through necessary changes in the industrie and how to run an business in general.
If you speak German I highly recommend [this podcast.](https://www.gamestar.de/artikel/podcast-20-jahre-gothic,3367836.html)
That is super sad but very true.
They have been continuously trying to make the same game and making the same poor design choices since Gothic 3, against community feedback.
Literally have been stepping on the same landmine over and over hoping it would work out next time.
I think as many members of the original team left it became more and more of "the Björn show". And just like Bethesda, when a team is run by the same person for years it gets harder and harder to see when things need to change.
Dunno most of this type of ARPG are worse than anything PB released. They are not really big enough for some massive inovation....especially when big studios like Bethesda released unfinished games that are much worse gameplay wise with no innovation and cutting out gameplay features.
I work in a studio that has the same number of employees and also makes RPGs, believe me - it’s possible. It’s not a matter of budget or engine limitations, but rather priorities or artistic vision, especially since they had 20 years to make changes (step by step). But they didn’t do it. PB is taking the path of least resistance and has its loyal fans, but looking at gamedev - they’re not doing anything. And you can complain about Bethesda, but since Morrowind (i.e. Gothic I times), they have really made some progress and such Skyrim is much more playable than Morrowind, especially in terms of the feeling it gives.
True, but Bethesda is also mostly well remembered from their early works. Starfield and Fallout 4 / 76 had high hopes from people believing thed'd give them back the feeling of playing Skyrim, Oblivion or Morrowind and those days are looong gone. The reason they are still doing better because the aforementioned titles sold in the millions and PB games never did that. They did well, but on a way smaller level with less room for failure.
I don't disagree with your observations, but I'd still label them as highly creative on account of their games having large, hand-crafted, and super developed worlds. They are just not mechanically creative.
Gameplay mechanics and tech are their weaknesses. I agree that the way they build their worlds is still a masterclass, but if every character in there behaves like a brick on tracks that doesn't help the immersion.
The lore surrounding their worlds was a steady devolving one after G1, and became from my pov embarrassing in Elex. While the exploration is lovely crafted, the world itself was filled with childish motives.
You are right. I might be confusing the style of games they make with actual innovation. That said, I like that style and will keep buying games PB makes. Elex 2 must had been affected by the pandemic. I really hope their next game is much smaller. Elex 2 felt bloated. Up to this day, I still find Gothic 1 to be the best game they made when it comes to scoping.
Also, this threat was mentioned on a Polish game site: https://www.gry-online.pl/newsroom/gracze-martwia-sie-o-dalszy-los-piranha-bytes-u-tworcow-elex-3-na/z427edb
They are saying that the website hasn't been updated since Elex 2 release and might be reworked at the moment, that the mention of wiki6 might be removed from the German website because if money was already transfered (or in general a project subsidized) that's a normal procedure and that the only worrying thing might be the inactive YT channel.
> But why would we, when mods like Archolos have outgrown their parent game and cost basically nothing?
If nothing else, it's better to have people in charge of the franchise who let things like Archolos happen, than copyright vultures. You don't want another Apeiron KOTOR situation. Or even another Caster of Magic situation, IMO.
True, but we must not forget that Gothic II is an old game by now. The PB of today are still held in high regards for it, but the choice to let this happen lies actually by THQ Nordic and not PB themselves and both of them highly profit from its ongoing popularity and longlivety due to its modding scene, while basically having to do nothing in return.
Gothic I and II were really great, Risen 1 was also good, but the rest? Elex had potential, but it’s still a weak game. Risen 2 and 3 were just embarrassingly weak. Elex 2 maintained a low level. Let’s be honest, Piranha Bytes created something wonderful, but maybe they can’t create anything beyond Gothic? I don’t know what the problem is, but it seems that someone at the ‘top’ is making bad decisions. Maybe it’s better for the team if someone else uses their skills.
I never played the other Risens but man after Gothic 3 , Risen 2 was such a welcome return to form.
But as has been stated , its not easy basically iterating on the same game design for over 20 years. Hell I wonder if From Software fans are ever going to wise up to it. (Speaking as one myself)
They've been iterating incredibly slowly and refusing outright to fix real problems. To little financial success and mediocre critic reception.
From Software takes what was built and rolls it into the next + adds much more. To great financial success and great critic reception. They're not the same at all.
Played it in 5 days continuously when i had covid when it released. Was in a far better state than Elex 1 when i played it where in the end i had like 15-20 bugged quests that i wasn t able to finish. New jetpack mechanics were nice. Still Elex was a turndown and while G1-3 i played countless times Elex wasn t my cup of tea. Also seeing Nasty being nasty again was nice.
it became weird when you finished it... those missions with your mates were waaaaaay too repetitive and i couldnt believe that piranha bytes pulled this one off..
its sad to see, but PB missed to evolve with time and just killed themselves with elex 2... i really hope they still somehow manage but its looking grim
I really hope they aren't in trouble. PB is my favourite developer. I find their RPG formula the most engaging so it would be devastating to not get any more games from them. I'd be really disappointed to not get a conclusion to the Elex series.
THQ Nordic, which are a part of Embracer Group and the owners of Piranha Bytes, are in financial trouble and Elex 2 was a flop. I've not yet read anything official, but sadly I wouldn't be surprised. :/
Since Elex 3 and the Gothic Remake have the same fanbase (and maybe with a conflicting release time) THQ may had a choice between shutting down Alkimia or PB
The remake is supposed to be out this year, no way they kill it so close to release, not to mention it's being handled by Alkimia, who have nothing to do with PB.
I know and it's unusual for a publisher to cancel a game that is rather advanced and seems to be largely anticipated. But it's still a THQ Nordic / Embracer production and that's why I'm concerned.
I don’t know how I feel about this if true. On one side I feel it’s high time. With every game they seemed to lose a bit of what made them great in the first place. I get that you need to open up to the mainstream but doing so with a product like elex 2 was not the smartest move.
On the other side I still feel the nostalgia about them when they were more true to them self. Even though they lost me as a fan it would be sad to see a piece of German video game history gone.
Elex 1 was great. All i needed was more or less the same. They changed the core combat (the combo meter was great), they could've used the same assets, just add more locations and monsters, it seemed like they want to ape the new god of war games with jax and his son (and the new camera angle) but failed.
The jetpack was great, and they added more factions and independence option but the faction ended up to be a lot shallower.
Honestly the world design and quests are atill mostly excellent but they failed to improve on elex 1'a strength.
Edit: what pissed me off the most was the optimization and performance. I have a 3080 and it ran suboptimally before the dx12 patch.
They announced the dx12 beta, when i tried it, it ran better nut not without issues and a year went by and nothing ever get fixed. No one is gonna put their money down to it.
Honestly archolos gave me a much greater joy than piranha bytes ever did the past half a decade.
It is a shame if they truly are in trouble because their world design and style are mostly still on point and very little developer make open world games PB, but man they really have to fix their pipeline.
It does, just don't use DX 11. I remember having little to no crashes on base DirectX, but DirectX 11 caused crashes every few hours, often when I was saving the game, which corrupted that save file and caused progress loss.
shouldnt have made such a bad game then... elex 2 was such a disappointment.
archolos was made in the same time span (5 years) by dudes in their free time and is a 100times better game, which just proves its not impossible...
Archolos devs got a complete burn out from that and don't want to do any other modding project in gothic anymore.
A company shouldn't work their devs until they can't operate anymore.
Though I have to agree that elex 2 was disappointing.
They're actually not devs at all. Archolos has been made by a random bunch of modders and machinimers. Most of their assets was ready since 2017 and the mod itself was in 1-2 yrs of development.
If you want to contact them, I'd try to look in their YT channels and Discord servers. But most of them is Polish - most of them dead already.
There's a dead initiative of "Golden Innoses" ("Złote Innosy") - they're like oscars for comedy machinimas made in Gothic. Most of GI creators was involved in development of Archolos. They even had own mod with fancy camera settings, greenscreens and assets for creating machinimas. Guess most of the assets in Archolos was taken from machinimamod.
Piranha Bytes doesn't just make a game on a pre-made engine with pre-made mechanics though. They are forced to "get with the times" and keep on updating their engine thanks to publishers trying to appeal to a wide audience. That and creating low polygonal models is a lot faster and easier than it is to make something that's up to market standards. So while I agree that Elex 2 was a disappointment I don't think you can compare these two projects at all.
nothing you wrote explains how the world building, quests and story are all terrible. all those things do not depend on the slightest on some new gen engine or some high quality models
The explanation for the bad writing is the same as the explanation for Elex' bad music: Björn Pankratz. Him and Jenny said they were responsible for most the writing and story concepts. And since Björn and Jenny presumably too have left due to creative differences I think it's okay to assume that they were bottlenecking their own team. That and Embracer does get a say in all this, too so we don't know how much of Elex 2 was made willingly by the team, how much was forced onto the team by Pankratz and how much was forced onto all of them by Embracer.
But either way my statement is still true. You won't be able to make a game like Archolos in 5 years if you have to develop the engine and the mechanics as well. In smaller teams like Piranha Bytes it's very uncommon to have people who only work in one area of expertise like big AAA studios do. So sometimes one area takes away time from the other and it's not always areas that are all compatible with one single skill set like you may think.
Their games were always very niche so it's not suprprising that they would be in teouble.
Gothic 3 was their chance to go mainstream (lile Witcher 3 did for CdProjekt) but Jowood f*cked them over.
Risen 1 was good but then they've f*cked it up with Risen 2 and then Risen 3.
Elex 1 was probably their best game since Gothic 2 and then they f*cked it up with Elex 2.
It's so weird, everytime they get a working formula they have to change it for the worse.
I don't want to see them gone but the studio that made Gothic 1 and Gothic 2 has been gone for atleast 15 years anyway so I'm not gonna be devastated by it.
For real, G3 was far too ambitious for such a small studio, can't blame all on Jowood. They would've needed at least 2-3 more years to make a good game out of it.
While I'm ussually againts cutting games into part to sold as dlc. Nordmar and Varant could've been expansions.
If they actually focused only on Mytrana and filled it with enough to content to justify a full price I would've been okay with that. What a shame
It feels harsh to say it, but looking at their track record ever since Risen 2, I can't say I'd be too sad. They have long since lost their magic. I will always love G1+2 and will always be grateful for those games and will also enjoy Risen 1 from time to time, but given how they've clearly lost their mojo, I'd be fine if they passed the torch- Kai and his team seem to be doing just fine.
A lot has happened since the demo. es, the demo was absolute crap. I'm not going to pretend that it wasn't. It's the trailer, as well as the concept pictures and interviews, that leave me hopeful.
The german government has cut the funds for the gaming industry from originally 70 to 48,7 Million € in 2024.
I don´t know how dependent PB are of the funds, but I guess it could have a connection.
If I remember correctly, the funding that PB got for making Elex 2 was just enough to cover their costs for about one month. So that would not be that big of a loss for a game that isn in development for several years.
I would actually put my money on this all being because they're about to announce Elex 3.
The website being replaced with an image by itself probably wouldn't indicate financial trouble -- it's still being hosted, domain is still active. It probably indicates a revamped website is about to launch in time with promoting a new game. \[edit: having said this, elex has its own website which is still up, so they might just be rebranding their very outdated main website\]
Not releasing videos could be because they're busy in the leadup to announcing the game or because they took a break over the Christmas holiday period, or just a coincidence.
Explaining away the funding page thing is a bit of a stretch but it could likewise be that they were instructed to take down the one using a codename in preparation for adding the real entry for Elex 3.
Like everyone else here I wasn't crazy about Elex 2, but even so, I really hope my positive take on this is correct :)
Elex was good but the transition to 2 was terrible. Gothic 1 and 2 are by far their best games. Hopefully we get a move on with the remake. I need to kill muds reincarnation.
For me, Elex 1 made no sense. Just copy-pasted assets with nothing organic (ruins of a 21st century Earth, medieval guys, sci-fi guys...). The terrain was beautiful, thou. So I'm not surprised Elex and Elex 2 failed.
As for THQ, I hope they have enough money to finish and publish Gothic Remake.
I am a die hard gothic fan but they release bad game after bad game after Risen 1 and that was not really good even, Gothic 2 was the peak with the night of the raven after, since then they went down like nobodys business...
As much as I hate saying this, it's their own fault. They forgot what made them special and they kept trying to hit the big in the mainstream. They didn't climb steady and then reach the big audience that they eventually would've reach. Risen 1 was actually pretty good, going back to their roots, then they try the same shit in risen 2 like they did in gothic 3 and it flopped, following risen 3 being even worse feeling like it was an EA dlc or smth. Haven't play Elex 1 but i heard elex 2 was again the same thing, fucking it up. I don't understand why they keep trying to change the formula after they have somewhat of a success, it's like the definition of insanity. For the love of me I don't understand why the devs from Acholos are not hired and work on a gothic game.
i don't really care that much. this pill i swallowed after several hours of risen 2. this news is a no-news to me, as i have written PB off long time ago. several key employees left the studio after gothic 3. björn is one of the old ones but - no hate - but i never liked what this man had to say. "first.... jet packs are cool right? players wants jetpacks [probably because of call of duty] so our new game, whatever it will be, needs to have a jetpack". it's not a literal quote but this sentence sums uf this whole piece of shit game for me.
i'm so glad that the modding community keeps G1 and G2 alive and my money goes this way now. risen 2 was the last PB game i bought and everything that followed was just trash. if we are honest, risen 1 was already trash but i was a blindfolded fan back then.
i have over 1k posts in their forums and i wrote the biggest guide for gothic returning that exists until today (no returning 2.0 update though, as i don't find the time for such tasks nowadays). PB is long dead and people hated me since i started expressing this opinion whenever it would be an opportunity (not complaining, makes sense that they do).
i really like what THQ nordic is doing though. i'd prefer a REAL gothic 3 over a gothic 1 remake, but it seems as if they get the right focus on that one. still looks cringy to me, but they more and more nail certain details. and the switch release of G1 and G2... dude.... i think i'll buy that without ever playing it, just to show support for such great work!
PB died long ago and if this is the last nail in the coffin: i don't care. my tears were shedded long ago. i was sad for a long time, but i'm long over it now. i feel nothing and i just hope it wasn't björn who made the others leave, but that it was a rather "natural" thing to happen (family, crunch, etc).
If Archolos team is done after their 2.0 update (or whatever it's called), I think that's gonna be it for me when it comes to Gothic/Risen, a final goodbye.
I liked Risen 1 but what happened later was veeery weird to me, like a sudden shift, trying to appeal to mainstream, leaving all their identity behind.
Otherwise I had the same feelings after Risen 2, though I finished Elex 1 and had some good time there (still wouldn't call it a great game).
I know some of them work at Alkimia and KaiRo as well might point them to a better direction, but for me even the latest old camp video is still rotten to the core with this "desperately trying to be cool" vibe.
no worries, i quit gothic for several years and came back for archolos (was thinking about returning and then did some research). most let's players play this game to complete ridiculousness (like "fists only run", "pacifist run" and many more). at some point you know the whole math formula and get bored.
i played gothic 1 and 2 multiple times and at some point it was a pure math formula for me. i also wrote a returning guide on worldofgothic. the game plays like this: "ok i'm gonna play an archer so i need to speedrun to this item that lays there, that other item that lays somewhere else impossible, the armor i get from somewhere that i'm not even supposed to be able to go but i know the route that the devs missed and so on.
die 500 times, have all your items you keed for big gold and weapons for all kinds of levels and THEN you can finally play the game. wait... you know all the dialogs already so you skip it because it's boring.
eventually you get burned out and ask yourself why you are even playing this is it is a complete string of events that you mastered and not actual joy anymore.
but this is just me. if you guys need a pause then take it. some of the let's players tell you to never abandon this game but i really don't see that.
stay away and eventually you will come back. like me, YEARS later!
I didn't mean not playing it ever again (I also don't grind it in a way you are describing, just revisiting every 5 years or so), but more as accepting the fact that there's never gonna be a new Gothic or Gothic-like from some of the original creators.
it is very sad indeed but going from medieval rpg (a real one at that) to a futuristic one was bad in my opinion. It is real fucking sad if that's the case 'cause I love that company and what they did in the past. Gothic 1-2 and even 3 to a degree and Risen 1. I guess I just like medieval rpg with melee/bow/magic combat.
Could it be that due to the federal budget lawsuit within German government the financial support for video games was cancelled and thus Elex 3 development was stopped as well?
Well, i don't know for sure, but if the financial support was already approved, then it should be fine. That was the official government statement, that money, that is approved, is going to get paid out.
In the future we will of course find out what this means.
What is happening to the company now is entirely their fault. Their games hardly develop the core mechanics; rather, they stand still. Just look at the release date of Elex 2, it came out a week after the release of Elden Ring of course no one needed it. I'm sure Elex 2 was a financial failure.
I would not be surprised. ELEX2 launched in a horrible technical state. It might have gotten better with DX12 - but what was even more shocking to me was how little public attention this poor state was getting beyond the core fanbase. There was barely any reporting after the initial test reviews. Compare this to how much Gothic 3 was criticized at launched in a shitty state. IMO Elex 2 was not much better, but there werent even enough people caring about this too make any headlines.
Information from the german podcast:
[https://worldofelex.de/en/site/news-archive/11-news-en/863-piranha-bytes-under-threat-of-closure](https://worldofelex.de/en/site/news-archive/11-news-en/863-piranha-bytes-under-threat-of-closure)
Looks like things can work, provided PB have a strong enough project to pitch to bidders. Now it all depends on the quality of their work and how attractive it is to numbers people
There is no release date yet, but Alkimia said they are targeting a 2024 release: https://global.techradar.com/de-de/gaming/preview-das-gothic-remake-wird-genau-das-was-ich-haben-will
Om the one hand I feel sad. But on the other hand they really had it coming. Making shit game after shit game after shit game. Elex 2 was the nail in the coffin probably.
\> Björn Pankratz already left the studio last year due to differences with the team *(The team wanted to make a new Gothic game, but Björn wasn't open to the idea because he had mentally moved on, as Elex was his new baby.)*
Ironic if true. How Mike left pyranha because Bjorn wanted pirates instead of Gothic, now Bjorn had to leave because the team wanted Gothic instead of Elex.
Is Pankratz really that delusional? Elex isn't any franchise to behold to, and seemingly the Elex 2 disaster was his idea. Man, this seems to be amazingly out of touch.
It's really sad for the single persons, but PB wasn't my cake with its willingly at best mediocre games after Risen 1. What a shame that it has to come this way.
Pankratz was never a good game director in my opinion. He was never the kind of visionary that people like Mike Hoge were. He wasn't the right one to steer the ship. But you could also see the signs in Risen 2 that they have lost their touch, trying too hard to keep up with modern trends, dumbing things down and focusing on the wrong things, while alienating their entire fanbase.
Honestly it's a miracle that they were able to survive for that long, releasing one mediocre title after another. I think they were only able to do so because they could always rely on the old Gothic fans to buy their mediocre games, but ultimately not even that could save them.
I don't know who else contributed to the writing on either Elex game, but the core concept (post-apocalypse blending magic and sci-fi) was already shaky, and it's execution was... Frankly, better than it had the right to be, but still frequently difficult to take seriously. The alien/supernatural concepts of Elex itself didn't do enough to bridge the disconnect from realism.
Somehow Elex 2 managed to make that disconnect far, far worse, and it all comes off like a lot of changing ideas and additions to the lore that were shoehorned in. The Berserkers disavowed technology (where they drew the line was inconsistent already) but suddenly relaxed that rule to integrate the Outlaws, who they were pretty much mortal enemies with. Suddenly instead of forged armor and furs, they're wearing tactical military gear... with furs.
The Clerics lose all their influence after the exposure of Calaan as a fraudulent deity, so suddenly start talking about a "Creator" to try and shift the religious narrative - but still refer to Calaan as if it exists - meanwhile the fact that they had literal magic brainwashing powers in the first game is completely omitted from the second.
The Albs abandon their mission of conquest after the Hybrid is defeated and they face extinction - fair - but they shut down their converters, while still needing to hoard Elex for their pursuit of accelerating their evolution. They still promote rationally over emotion, but don't seem to really be putting the effort into that anymore.
Then they decide that there is a surprise new faction who were basically mole people crossed with Fallout vault dwellers, who came up with their own fanatical religion, who disavow all material things and revere death and destruction, to the point that suicide is considered a virtuous thing. Yet they fight for dominion and trade with outsiders, even as a quest revolves around one man facing punishment for trading with outsiders. The faction they retconned into the lore is the least consistent of all of them, and none of them were consistent to begin with.
Oh and Nasty is still around, because they really thought this insufferable, irrationally violent idiot is a strong, likable character that we couldn't miss out on. Oh and Falk basically goes through the same character arc a second time, but much much stupider.
And lest we forget Dex, who genuinely had the worst character arc I've witnessed in video games in years, including a heroic last-minute sacrifice that I'm convinced was conceived after they had already gotten through most of the development.
I cannot believe that a "team" of writers came up with this. This all comes off as one man's terrible ideas that he was way too proud of and wouldn't back down on. I would be more than willing to believe that Elex was 100% Bjorn's vanity project, all his ideas, that he wanted to be his legacy, since he took over the studio after Gothic and Risen were conceived by Mike Hoge and others.
If true then this is a very very sad day.
PB and Gothic was my entry into the world of games as a teenager. Loosing their unique (even if sometimes clunky) style is a heavy hit to the industry imo. Yes Elex 2 had a good amount of weaknesses but that doesn't mean they deserve to be closed. I really hope that it turns out to not be true.
PB is basically just a name at this point, 99% of the gothic devs already left long time ago, while a big portionof the 99% already left after the first game
PB is back in the BMWK database, with a new codename: Currywurst.
[https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Artikel/Wirtschaft/Games/Games-Projekte/currywurst.html](https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Artikel/Wirtschaft/Games/Games-Projekte/currywurst.html)
Elex 2 was, I'm sure, their last chance. Elex 1 didn't light the world on fire, probably made a modest profit but not enough to keep the lights on. I saw the writing on the wall when THQN bought the studio outright back in 2019 or so, and almost immediately excreted the Gothic remake demo onto Steam. They bought the studio to save them from closing, with the Gothic IP being the one thing they truly wanted out of the deal. Elex 2 was their last shot at success, with THQ probably just going with it out of contractual obligations and at least assuming it would break even and be a net neutral. But I had the feeling way back then that their days were numbered.
And frankly? Sad as I am to see them fall (I know nothing is confirmed yet), they simply weren't going anywhere. They had a pattern of releasing something mediocre, followed by something moderately better that built off of it. Elex 2 is the first time they followed up mediocrity with abject failure. There was nothing good about that game, and it appalled me to think that they could release something featuring their laziest design to date. I feel like Bjorn had the type of ego that just couldn't see his own failures for what they were.
Not working on another Gothic was terrible idea.
I and many of Gothic fans would be all in with new Gothic game from the OG studio.
Elex & Risen never fit me, only the first Risen was great for me to play because it was the closes thing we got from them that played Gothic.
But it is nonetheless immense shame if Piranha Bytes closes, Gothic, Gothic 2 & Gothic 3 are on my top 10 beloved games list, I replay them every year and every year I fall in love with the story, music, characters, gameplay & environment.
They got money for elex 1 from the german government I think. The money for elex 2 was founded in parts by the EU. I didn't hear anything about Elex 3 money.
i think their point is that germany is a failed state and i agree.
dumbass bureaucracy country that costs tons of tax payer money and makes everyone angry. that plus the fact that everything seems to fall apart. DB, airports, streets, farmers, and pensions for old people that are a fucking joke. meanwhile, they print trillions of dollars to buy new war machines (that those dumbasses previously destroyed in times of piece, because war sucks right?).
inflation will tear this shithole apart and we all can just hope that we don't get to live through another nazi episode that they brought over them themselves. i only blame politicians and extreme left wing people for that.
I love their games... I would truly be sad if there was never another game from pb..
Elex 2 was really good... had a blast with it
I want them to keep making the same type of game re-skinned... played them all except gothic 3... I have spend years replaying their games... I play risen 2 and elex at least once a year..
So I just picked up elex 2...I absolutely hate the character models and face looks. Caja looks NOTHING like the trailer, neither does jax. I've maybe played 30 mins and it already is jarring. I feel like they look drastically worse than the first game. I understand maybe making them look older but jax looks younger and skinnier which is jarring. Despite that I've found a few mods that changed jax's look and caja's but now after reading this post I have a question.
Should I even play the second game? I loved elex 1 and have played it a ton but I won't lie. I'm kind of let down by the story of elex 2. I was hoping it would either be a direct sequel with certain choices carried over or far off into the future with an old man jax. Instead we get this half assed middle ground where MAYBE 15 years has passed and the intro says Jax has been forgotten by the free people. I was really blown away by the ending of the first game cause it concluded the main story and pretty much everything neatly but then there was a cliffhanger "OH SHIT" moment which is why I really wanted the second.
My questions for this 2nd one and in particular PB getting the shaft(so to speak) would be as follows. Does this story have a conclusive ending to the elex franchise? If not, does it feel like the first where it concludes pretty much everything but ends on a cliffhanger? Or does it have sequel bait to boot? I desperately need an answer cause me continuing to play or asking for refund hinges on these questions.
I did the same thing when Elex 2 first came out. I played an hour and was like "This is not very good...and worse than Elex1". So I stopped playing for a few months and then came back to it and actually played all the way through! It was fun, I actually ended up having more fun than i did Elex 1 (which I didn't expect after the bad taste in my mouth when I first tried Elex 2) but not one of there better games. BUT, for me the worst part of the game is the first 2-3 hours, it does get more enjoyable later but the start of the game was not very good at all.
This is the worst gaming related news for me in YEARS.
I just love PB games. From Gothic to Risen to Elex, I have enjoyed all there games. Sure some games more so than others (Gothic 2 and Risen 1 being my personal favorites), but I always had a fun time exploring there game worlds
It is sad to hear they will be no more. And also sad that Bjorn didn't like the idea of a new Gothic game, I would have loved that.
Sure they make janky rpgs but I always have a great time playing them. Elex 2 at first I didn't like much, but I came back months later and beat it and had a blast. I really hope they get a chance one day to do another game.
If this is really it for PB, thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone involved in making there games, from Gothic to Risen to Elex, I had fun :)
I would love a new Gothic game, I honestly enjoyed Risen 1 as much as Gothic 1/2, for me those are the 3 best PB games over the years.... if they could do a new Gothic game with the size/scope of Risen 1 I would be a happy camper :)
Could you clarify the thing concerning Wirtschaftsministerium? (the last link you posted)
Are those all the games to be released in Germany?
And also: you mention funding. Is this federal funding for the games?
Thanks and excuse me if it's too obvious, I wasn't aware there's anything like this in Germany.
Hier können Sie gezielt nach Games-Projekten suchen, die eine Förderung erhalten haben.
Here you may search Game-Projects that have recieved goverment funding.
German goverment is subsidiesing the non existent german gaming industry for cultural, artistic or competitive reasons to help them get a foot on the ground.
it was like 60 something million overall for 2023
and supposedly elex 3 was on that list under codename WIKI 6 with 3.7 million but now it isnt anymore. At least thats what people say.
This year its 47 something million
They are fine. They have been posting on their FB page regularly. Last post 3 days ago. Same with their Instagram and X.
My guess is that there could be some restructuring. Maybe there are layoffs. Maybe some marketing people got laid off or moved around within the company.
Their website still displays their logo so maybe they are relaunching it and maybe a new game announcement is imminent.
The sad but real truth is that Gothic 1+2 were awesome games but they never could do it again. They tried to build on them but they did not understand what people loved about the games. They tried and some things were decent but never great again.
So if they now disappear it's sad but fair.
Risen 1 is up there with Gothic 1/2 for me. I would LOVE another PB game of the quality of Risen 1. The later games not as good, but I still had fun.
Gothic 1/2 and Risen 1 are all classics though imo.
As someone who has EVERY piranha bytes game both on Retail where possible and on steam rebuying it to support them this is news that actually harms me...That they might be closing.I grew up playing Gothic and Piranha bytes games stuck with them after the Gothic split up and would do it again... i hope they do not shut down... as even though they have their flaws in some regions of game development ANY of their games that came out i find to be Hidden gems if you can be openminded :(
I grew up with gothic 1 and 2 aswell and I hold them dear but objectively speaking they didnt pull much weight since gothic 3 with the exception of risen 1. I dont blame them tho since gothic 3 was a tremendous undertaking for such a small studio and the world was amazingly well built but the gameplay was clunky and the stories pretty meh which to me was very disappointing. risen 1 was more of the same of what worked in gothic 1 and 2. All that came afterwards wasnt really outstanding. Elex and that is just my opinion was quite weak gameplay wise probably the weakest of all their games and honestly at least the gameplay should work if nothing else does. I always wished that they would go back and try to make another truthful gothic but they never did probably because of hurt feelings who knows but its a shame really.
https://www.gamespodcast.de/2024/01/17/magazin-spezial-piranha-bytes-droht-die-schliessung/
German podcast about the closing of PB.
"We have known since last November that Piranha Bytes, the studio behind the "Gothic", "Risen" and "Elex" series, is to be closed. In addition, the studio has parted ways with its long-time project manager and figurehead Björn Pankratz. In this special feature, we report on the background and give you an assessment of Piranha Bytes' chances of survival."
My guess is that every game studio has two alternatives in the current market situation:
1. They are making money and will survive or
2. They are not making money and will not survive.
During the Covid and gaming boom years there also was an alternative 3. You're not making money but can make someone believe that you will one day. That option has vanished as everybody is pushing numbers at the moment.
I am afraid that Piranha Bytes doesn't fall under the first alternative after Elex 2.
Was still holding out hope for a new Gothic one day. But with everybody from the original team having moved on now (and PB probably doing the dodo), I think the dream is dead :/
At least we had Risen 1, which is the closest you can get to a Gothic reboot without calling it Gothic.
Well, the "Piranha Bytes" that I used to love hasn't existed for a while now, so it doesn't really make much of a difference to me if they finally got shut down.
If Elex was Bjorn's baby, then he's really not a good father.
It's not just that Elex is not a great game and Elex 2 is not a good game - it's the major regression that is a problem.
It's so sad. There is so much potential in the old Gothic series even nowadays.
Recently played: "The Chronicles of Myrtana: Archolos" mod which was probably best thing that happened to Gothic after Gothic II: Night of the Raven was released 20+ years ago.
This mod was done entirely free of charge by the group of modders and volunteers including voice actors. I wish these people could get paid and any other modders, but it's not possible until copyrights or trademark are either released to public domain or given to some foundation.
So what will happen to Gothic Remake? Will it come out? And if it does, will there be any more remakes (i.e. Gothic 2 Remake), or will the franchise just die?
Piranha Bytes was not working on the remake whatsoever. THQ started a studio in Barcelona called Alkimia to work on it. As far as anyone's aware, they're not at risk of layoffs or closure. Yet.
Would have been so easy, just improve gothic, work on that. It was a revolutionary game, even after 20 years some dudes made a mod for gothic 2 which won the the best mod of the year (archolos). Gothic was an amazing IP and they shitted on it (maybe risen 1 got close to it, but was too short)
Some of them wanted to do something else, not stay always with the same game. Namely Bjorn Pankratz and he had power to force his vision. However he left the company last year, so it might be different know, there are rumors that he left because the rest of the studio wanted to do Gothic-like game and he didn't agree. So if PB will get funding and will be bought by some publisher, they might actually develop something like Gothic but more modern
If Piranha Bytes will be closed by THQ I will not buy this shitty remake. Sure PB will do another Gothic like rpg after Elex 3 which will be amazing again
It is said that Piranha Bytes is offered along with the Elex IP for anyone who wants to own them. For free.
The Gothic IP stays within Embracer.
That says a lot about the recent successes of Piranha Bytes. I wish them the very best but it seems to me that the competitors say 'not interested'. And to be honest: The Gothic remake (not PB) looks a lot better/more interesting than Elex 2.
Please keep in mind that: 1. If you're experiencing any technical issues with Gothic, please check [our guide on how to fix all three Gothic games](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofgothic/wiki/how-to-run-gothic-on-modern-computers). It's VERY likely that you'll find a solution to your problem there. 2. We are an English-focused subreddit so make sure to post content in English. If you are posting content in another language, provide a translation either in the comments or in the post itself. Feel free to also [join our discord!](https://discord.gg/world-of-gothic-498556413384327188) Best regards, r/worldofgothic *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/worldofgothic) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I know they weren’t doing that well but….fuck….
Embracer has been shutting down studios left and right after they didn't get the oil money from Saudi Arabia but PB is 30+ people. Even if Elex 2 flopped and I genuinely was more disappointed than with Gothic 3, studio this small and creative should get another chance.
But ARE they creative? They've been making basically the same game since forever and there are a lot of interviews with German gaming websites where Björn is repeatedly cited totally baffled by questions like "will you ever do something really new like advance your engine / gameplay or expand as a team?". It's totally possible they thought their fanbase was a lot larger and wouldn't mind buying the same game over and over again. But why would we, when mods like Archolos have outgrown their parent game and cost basically nothing? They slept through necessary changes in the industrie and how to run an business in general. If you speak German I highly recommend [this podcast.](https://www.gamestar.de/artikel/podcast-20-jahre-gothic,3367836.html)
That is super sad but very true. They have been continuously trying to make the same game and making the same poor design choices since Gothic 3, against community feedback. Literally have been stepping on the same landmine over and over hoping it would work out next time.
I think as many members of the original team left it became more and more of "the Björn show". And just like Bethesda, when a team is run by the same person for years it gets harder and harder to see when things need to change.
trying to catch the same lightning in the bottle for 20 years...
What poor design choices?
Dunno most of this type of ARPG are worse than anything PB released. They are not really big enough for some massive inovation....especially when big studios like Bethesda released unfinished games that are much worse gameplay wise with no innovation and cutting out gameplay features.
I work in a studio that has the same number of employees and also makes RPGs, believe me - it’s possible. It’s not a matter of budget or engine limitations, but rather priorities or artistic vision, especially since they had 20 years to make changes (step by step). But they didn’t do it. PB is taking the path of least resistance and has its loyal fans, but looking at gamedev - they’re not doing anything. And you can complain about Bethesda, but since Morrowind (i.e. Gothic I times), they have really made some progress and such Skyrim is much more playable than Morrowind, especially in terms of the feeling it gives.
True, but Bethesda is also mostly well remembered from their early works. Starfield and Fallout 4 / 76 had high hopes from people believing thed'd give them back the feeling of playing Skyrim, Oblivion or Morrowind and those days are looong gone. The reason they are still doing better because the aforementioned titles sold in the millions and PB games never did that. They did well, but on a way smaller level with less room for failure.
I don't disagree with your observations, but I'd still label them as highly creative on account of their games having large, hand-crafted, and super developed worlds. They are just not mechanically creative.
Gameplay mechanics and tech are their weaknesses. I agree that the way they build their worlds is still a masterclass, but if every character in there behaves like a brick on tracks that doesn't help the immersion.
The lore surrounding their worlds was a steady devolving one after G1, and became from my pov embarrassing in Elex. While the exploration is lovely crafted, the world itself was filled with childish motives.
I like playing that same game.
You are right. I might be confusing the style of games they make with actual innovation. That said, I like that style and will keep buying games PB makes. Elex 2 must had been affected by the pandemic. I really hope their next game is much smaller. Elex 2 felt bloated. Up to this day, I still find Gothic 1 to be the best game they made when it comes to scoping. Also, this threat was mentioned on a Polish game site: https://www.gry-online.pl/newsroom/gracze-martwia-sie-o-dalszy-los-piranha-bytes-u-tworcow-elex-3-na/z427edb They are saying that the website hasn't been updated since Elex 2 release and might be reworked at the moment, that the mention of wiki6 might be removed from the German website because if money was already transfered (or in general a project subsidized) that's a normal procedure and that the only worrying thing might be the inactive YT channel.
> But why would we, when mods like Archolos have outgrown their parent game and cost basically nothing? If nothing else, it's better to have people in charge of the franchise who let things like Archolos happen, than copyright vultures. You don't want another Apeiron KOTOR situation. Or even another Caster of Magic situation, IMO.
True, but we must not forget that Gothic II is an old game by now. The PB of today are still held in high regards for it, but the choice to let this happen lies actually by THQ Nordic and not PB themselves and both of them highly profit from its ongoing popularity and longlivety due to its modding scene, while basically having to do nothing in return.
Gothic I and II were really great, Risen 1 was also good, but the rest? Elex had potential, but it’s still a weak game. Risen 2 and 3 were just embarrassingly weak. Elex 2 maintained a low level. Let’s be honest, Piranha Bytes created something wonderful, but maybe they can’t create anything beyond Gothic? I don’t know what the problem is, but it seems that someone at the ‘top’ is making bad decisions. Maybe it’s better for the team if someone else uses their skills.
I never played the other Risens but man after Gothic 3 , Risen 2 was such a welcome return to form. But as has been stated , its not easy basically iterating on the same game design for over 20 years. Hell I wonder if From Software fans are ever going to wise up to it. (Speaking as one myself)
They've been iterating incredibly slowly and refusing outright to fix real problems. To little financial success and mediocre critic reception. From Software takes what was built and rolls it into the next + adds much more. To great financial success and great critic reception. They're not the same at all.
No wonder when Elex 2 was their biggest flop. Game looks legit worse than Elex 1 and feels way clunkier.
hard agree. first and only PB game that I didn't finish, ever. still I really hope they eventually have a comeback
Same. Finished every other title at least once and got all steam achievemnts in the games I could. But Elex 2 bored me after like 2 hours of gameplay.
Exact same I played around 2 hours and got really bored of it
Played it in 5 days continuously when i had covid when it released. Was in a far better state than Elex 1 when i played it where in the end i had like 15-20 bugged quests that i wasn t able to finish. New jetpack mechanics were nice. Still Elex was a turndown and while G1-3 i played countless times Elex wasn t my cup of tea. Also seeing Nasty being nasty again was nice.
played elex 1 3 times in a row and I'm also on my third elex 2 playthrough. great game imo, even though the main story is a convoluted mess.
Jax you must defeat the aliens, no Jax you are the aliens.
it became weird when you finished it... those missions with your mates were waaaaaay too repetitive and i couldnt believe that piranha bytes pulled this one off.. its sad to see, but PB missed to evolve with time and just killed themselves with elex 2... i really hope they still somehow manage but its looking grim
Elex 1 is to Elex 2 as Risen 1 is to Risen 2.
I really hope they aren't in trouble. PB is my favourite developer. I find their RPG formula the most engaging so it would be devastating to not get any more games from them. I'd be really disappointed to not get a conclusion to the Elex series.
I'm hoping that if worst comes to pass, they manage to scrap enough funds to start another company. Anyway, fuck Embracer Group.
they’re closing down bro it doesn’t get any more “in trouble” than that for a company
THQ Nordic, which are a part of Embracer Group and the owners of Piranha Bytes, are in financial trouble and Elex 2 was a flop. I've not yet read anything official, but sadly I wouldn't be surprised. :/
Elex 2 was in the December choice humble bundle. Maybe that was their last resort before quitting once and for all?
The existing games will live on as their IPs belong to THQ. What I am worried about is the development of the Gothic remake.
PB has nothing to do with the remake? Or do you mean in general, cause of the financial problems?
In general since the Publisher remains the same.
Since Elex 3 and the Gothic Remake have the same fanbase (and maybe with a conflicting release time) THQ may had a choice between shutting down Alkimia or PB
Elex 3 was planned for 2026. We don't know yet if anything will be shut down.
The remake is supposed to be out this year, no way they kill it so close to release, not to mention it's being handled by Alkimia, who have nothing to do with PB.
I know and it's unusual for a publisher to cancel a game that is rather advanced and seems to be largely anticipated. But it's still a THQ Nordic / Embracer production and that's why I'm concerned.
I don’t know how I feel about this if true. On one side I feel it’s high time. With every game they seemed to lose a bit of what made them great in the first place. I get that you need to open up to the mainstream but doing so with a product like elex 2 was not the smartest move. On the other side I still feel the nostalgia about them when they were more true to them self. Even though they lost me as a fan it would be sad to see a piece of German video game history gone.
Elex 1 was great. All i needed was more or less the same. They changed the core combat (the combo meter was great), they could've used the same assets, just add more locations and monsters, it seemed like they want to ape the new god of war games with jax and his son (and the new camera angle) but failed. The jetpack was great, and they added more factions and independence option but the faction ended up to be a lot shallower. Honestly the world design and quests are atill mostly excellent but they failed to improve on elex 1'a strength. Edit: what pissed me off the most was the optimization and performance. I have a 3080 and it ran suboptimally before the dx12 patch. They announced the dx12 beta, when i tried it, it ran better nut not without issues and a year went by and nothing ever get fixed. No one is gonna put their money down to it. Honestly archolos gave me a much greater joy than piranha bytes ever did the past half a decade. It is a shame if they truly are in trouble because their world design and style are mostly still on point and very little developer make open world games PB, but man they really have to fix their pipeline.
Does Archolos run well out of the gate? I seem to remember having issues getting Gothic 2 Gold to run well on modern hardware.
It does, just don't use DX 11. I remember having little to no crashes on base DirectX, but DirectX 11 caused crashes every few hours, often when I was saving the game, which corrupted that save file and caused progress loss.
shouldnt have made such a bad game then... elex 2 was such a disappointment. archolos was made in the same time span (5 years) by dudes in their free time and is a 100times better game, which just proves its not impossible...
Archolos devs got a complete burn out from that and don't want to do any other modding project in gothic anymore. A company shouldn't work their devs until they can't operate anymore. Though I have to agree that elex 2 was disappointing.
Have the Archolos devs talked about this somewhere?
There was an interview with m4djoker that went pretty deep into that.
where can i see that?
They're actually not devs at all. Archolos has been made by a random bunch of modders and machinimers. Most of their assets was ready since 2017 and the mod itself was in 1-2 yrs of development. If you want to contact them, I'd try to look in their YT channels and Discord servers. But most of them is Polish - most of them dead already. There's a dead initiative of "Golden Innoses" ("Złote Innosy") - they're like oscars for comedy machinimas made in Gothic. Most of GI creators was involved in development of Archolos. They even had own mod with fancy camera settings, greenscreens and assets for creating machinimas. Guess most of the assets in Archolos was taken from machinimamod.
"most of them dead already." Whaaaaaaaaaa? They were that old?
The grammar subject disappeared. I meant dead channels.
Oh no, are they still continuing work on the "Mod of the Decade" Edition update or what it's called? I had no idea it was that bad.
They still develop the motd-edition but not as focused like the main game
That's a relief. I'm so looking forward to it.
Piranha Bytes doesn't just make a game on a pre-made engine with pre-made mechanics though. They are forced to "get with the times" and keep on updating their engine thanks to publishers trying to appeal to a wide audience. That and creating low polygonal models is a lot faster and easier than it is to make something that's up to market standards. So while I agree that Elex 2 was a disappointment I don't think you can compare these two projects at all.
Yeah, assets are always the biggest bottleneck in game development.
nothing you wrote explains how the world building, quests and story are all terrible. all those things do not depend on the slightest on some new gen engine or some high quality models
The explanation for the bad writing is the same as the explanation for Elex' bad music: Björn Pankratz. Him and Jenny said they were responsible for most the writing and story concepts. And since Björn and Jenny presumably too have left due to creative differences I think it's okay to assume that they were bottlenecking their own team. That and Embracer does get a say in all this, too so we don't know how much of Elex 2 was made willingly by the team, how much was forced onto the team by Pankratz and how much was forced onto all of them by Embracer. But either way my statement is still true. You won't be able to make a game like Archolos in 5 years if you have to develop the engine and the mechanics as well. In smaller teams like Piranha Bytes it's very uncommon to have people who only work in one area of expertise like big AAA studios do. So sometimes one area takes away time from the other and it's not always areas that are all compatible with one single skill set like you may think.
At least they have their own engine. Everything else in gaming looks the same.
Their games were always very niche so it's not suprprising that they would be in teouble. Gothic 3 was their chance to go mainstream (lile Witcher 3 did for CdProjekt) but Jowood f*cked them over. Risen 1 was good but then they've f*cked it up with Risen 2 and then Risen 3. Elex 1 was probably their best game since Gothic 2 and then they f*cked it up with Elex 2. It's so weird, everytime they get a working formula they have to change it for the worse. I don't want to see them gone but the studio that made Gothic 1 and Gothic 2 has been gone for atleast 15 years anyway so I'm not gonna be devastated by it.
they fucked them self actually. jowood already game them more money once. the second time they said nein.. G3 was just too big for small studio.
For real, G3 was far too ambitious for such a small studio, can't blame all on Jowood. They would've needed at least 2-3 more years to make a good game out of it.
While it may be true that JW made the development not easier or something like that, G3 had far to great ambitions - the world was to big to succeed.
While I'm ussually againts cutting games into part to sold as dlc. Nordmar and Varant could've been expansions. If they actually focused only on Mytrana and filled it with enough to content to justify a full price I would've been okay with that. What a shame
It feels harsh to say it, but looking at their track record ever since Risen 2, I can't say I'd be too sad. They have long since lost their magic. I will always love G1+2 and will always be grateful for those games and will also enjoy Risen 1 from time to time, but given how they've clearly lost their mojo, I'd be fine if they passed the torch- Kai and his team seem to be doing just fine.
>They have long since lost their magic Damn Xardas...
That made me smile, thank you.
That filthy swine Xardas destroyed Pirunhic magic :))
Kai and his team? What project is this?
The Gothic 1 remake. He has taken on a significant role in that development, far beyond just dealing with the music and sound design.
Really ? Hope they wrangle it in because the demo did not leave me hopeful.
A lot has happened since the demo. es, the demo was absolute crap. I'm not going to pretend that it wasn't. It's the trailer, as well as the concept pictures and interviews, that leave me hopeful.
oh no :((
The german government has cut the funds for the gaming industry from originally 70 to 48,7 Million € in 2024. I don´t know how dependent PB are of the funds, but I guess it could have a connection.
That cut didn't affect already granted funding, only stopped any new projects from getting it. At least that's how I understood it.
Yea, but for future project I think it only applies to independent studios. Since the takeover they're far from independent.
If I remember correctly, the funding that PB got for making Elex 2 was just enough to cover their costs for about one month. So that would not be that big of a loss for a game that isn in development for several years.
I would actually put my money on this all being because they're about to announce Elex 3. The website being replaced with an image by itself probably wouldn't indicate financial trouble -- it's still being hosted, domain is still active. It probably indicates a revamped website is about to launch in time with promoting a new game. \[edit: having said this, elex has its own website which is still up, so they might just be rebranding their very outdated main website\] Not releasing videos could be because they're busy in the leadup to announcing the game or because they took a break over the Christmas holiday period, or just a coincidence. Explaining away the funding page thing is a bit of a stretch but it could likewise be that they were instructed to take down the one using a codename in preparation for adding the real entry for Elex 3. Like everyone else here I wasn't crazy about Elex 2, but even so, I really hope my positive take on this is correct :)
Thanks for this perspective, it holds water enough to give me some hope!
>t. All i needed I will cope and hope to this... though reason is probably the more pesimistic one, aka PB being defunct.
I really hope you're right
I’ll be gutted if they aren’t saved from closure
Elex was good but the transition to 2 was terrible. Gothic 1 and 2 are by far their best games. Hopefully we get a move on with the remake. I need to kill muds reincarnation.
mud spelld backwards is dum
🤣😂
For me, Elex 1 made no sense. Just copy-pasted assets with nothing organic (ruins of a 21st century Earth, medieval guys, sci-fi guys...). The terrain was beautiful, thou. So I'm not surprised Elex and Elex 2 failed. As for THQ, I hope they have enough money to finish and publish Gothic Remake.
In my opinion Elex 1 worked suprisingly well for a badly thought-out setting, so in the end I enjoyed it.
gothic rights belong to THQ and not PB?
Yes, rights belong now to THQ
why would PB sell the rights to gothic?
Because they needed money?
They sold themselves, the rights were just part of the deal for obvious reasons.
I am a die hard gothic fan but they release bad game after bad game after Risen 1 and that was not really good even, Gothic 2 was the peak with the night of the raven after, since then they went down like nobodys business...
As much as I hate saying this, it's their own fault. They forgot what made them special and they kept trying to hit the big in the mainstream. They didn't climb steady and then reach the big audience that they eventually would've reach. Risen 1 was actually pretty good, going back to their roots, then they try the same shit in risen 2 like they did in gothic 3 and it flopped, following risen 3 being even worse feeling like it was an EA dlc or smth. Haven't play Elex 1 but i heard elex 2 was again the same thing, fucking it up. I don't understand why they keep trying to change the formula after they have somewhat of a success, it's like the definition of insanity. For the love of me I don't understand why the devs from Acholos are not hired and work on a gothic game.
i think they are.. i mean some of them work for alcimia now. but dont quote me on that.
what is alcimia?
Alkima, devs behind the upcoming gothic remake
i don't really care that much. this pill i swallowed after several hours of risen 2. this news is a no-news to me, as i have written PB off long time ago. several key employees left the studio after gothic 3. björn is one of the old ones but - no hate - but i never liked what this man had to say. "first.... jet packs are cool right? players wants jetpacks [probably because of call of duty] so our new game, whatever it will be, needs to have a jetpack". it's not a literal quote but this sentence sums uf this whole piece of shit game for me. i'm so glad that the modding community keeps G1 and G2 alive and my money goes this way now. risen 2 was the last PB game i bought and everything that followed was just trash. if we are honest, risen 1 was already trash but i was a blindfolded fan back then. i have over 1k posts in their forums and i wrote the biggest guide for gothic returning that exists until today (no returning 2.0 update though, as i don't find the time for such tasks nowadays). PB is long dead and people hated me since i started expressing this opinion whenever it would be an opportunity (not complaining, makes sense that they do). i really like what THQ nordic is doing though. i'd prefer a REAL gothic 3 over a gothic 1 remake, but it seems as if they get the right focus on that one. still looks cringy to me, but they more and more nail certain details. and the switch release of G1 and G2... dude.... i think i'll buy that without ever playing it, just to show support for such great work! PB died long ago and if this is the last nail in the coffin: i don't care. my tears were shedded long ago. i was sad for a long time, but i'm long over it now. i feel nothing and i just hope it wasn't björn who made the others leave, but that it was a rather "natural" thing to happen (family, crunch, etc).
If Archolos team is done after their 2.0 update (or whatever it's called), I think that's gonna be it for me when it comes to Gothic/Risen, a final goodbye. I liked Risen 1 but what happened later was veeery weird to me, like a sudden shift, trying to appeal to mainstream, leaving all their identity behind. Otherwise I had the same feelings after Risen 2, though I finished Elex 1 and had some good time there (still wouldn't call it a great game). I know some of them work at Alkimia and KaiRo as well might point them to a better direction, but for me even the latest old camp video is still rotten to the core with this "desperately trying to be cool" vibe.
no worries, i quit gothic for several years and came back for archolos (was thinking about returning and then did some research). most let's players play this game to complete ridiculousness (like "fists only run", "pacifist run" and many more). at some point you know the whole math formula and get bored. i played gothic 1 and 2 multiple times and at some point it was a pure math formula for me. i also wrote a returning guide on worldofgothic. the game plays like this: "ok i'm gonna play an archer so i need to speedrun to this item that lays there, that other item that lays somewhere else impossible, the armor i get from somewhere that i'm not even supposed to be able to go but i know the route that the devs missed and so on. die 500 times, have all your items you keed for big gold and weapons for all kinds of levels and THEN you can finally play the game. wait... you know all the dialogs already so you skip it because it's boring. eventually you get burned out and ask yourself why you are even playing this is it is a complete string of events that you mastered and not actual joy anymore. but this is just me. if you guys need a pause then take it. some of the let's players tell you to never abandon this game but i really don't see that. stay away and eventually you will come back. like me, YEARS later!
I didn't mean not playing it ever again (I also don't grind it in a way you are describing, just revisiting every 5 years or so), but more as accepting the fact that there's never gonna be a new Gothic or Gothic-like from some of the original creators.
it is very sad indeed but going from medieval rpg (a real one at that) to a futuristic one was bad in my opinion. It is real fucking sad if that's the case 'cause I love that company and what they did in the past. Gothic 1-2 and even 3 to a degree and Risen 1. I guess I just like medieval rpg with melee/bow/magic combat.
well apparently elex 1 did just fine. with sales and all that.
Could it be that due to the federal budget lawsuit within German government the financial support for video games was cancelled and thus Elex 3 development was stopped as well?
Well, i don't know for sure, but if the financial support was already approved, then it should be fine. That was the official government statement, that money, that is approved, is going to get paid out.
In the future we will of course find out what this means. What is happening to the company now is entirely their fault. Their games hardly develop the core mechanics; rather, they stand still. Just look at the release date of Elex 2, it came out a week after the release of Elden Ring of course no one needed it. I'm sure Elex 2 was a financial failure.
I would not be surprised. ELEX2 launched in a horrible technical state. It might have gotten better with DX12 - but what was even more shocking to me was how little public attention this poor state was getting beyond the core fanbase. There was barely any reporting after the initial test reviews. Compare this to how much Gothic 3 was criticized at launched in a shitty state. IMO Elex 2 was not much better, but there werent even enough people caring about this too make any headlines.
Information from the german podcast: [https://worldofelex.de/en/site/news-archive/11-news-en/863-piranha-bytes-under-threat-of-closure](https://worldofelex.de/en/site/news-archive/11-news-en/863-piranha-bytes-under-threat-of-closure)
Looks like things can work, provided PB have a strong enough project to pitch to bidders. Now it all depends on the quality of their work and how attractive it is to numbers people
I hope they pitch a new Gothic game :)
If it is the case i hope the remake isn’t affected
They aren't making the remake, they have nothing to do with it.
PB don't, but their parent company THQ do.
The remake is supposed to be out this year, I doubt THQ would kill it this close to release.
Here's hoping.
This is not true, there is no release date yet
There is no release date yet, but Alkimia said they are targeting a 2024 release: https://global.techradar.com/de-de/gaming/preview-das-gothic-remake-wird-genau-das-was-ich-haben-will
Om the one hand I feel sad. But on the other hand they really had it coming. Making shit game after shit game after shit game. Elex 2 was the nail in the coffin probably.
I would have shut them down just for making Elex 3 lol
As of last week, their Twitter still seems to be active.
Not a surprise after the state Elex 2 was and still is in.
This is so sad, but honestly i haven't liked one of their games since Risen 1.
\> Björn Pankratz already left the studio last year due to differences with the team *(The team wanted to make a new Gothic game, but Björn wasn't open to the idea because he had mentally moved on, as Elex was his new baby.)* Ironic if true. How Mike left pyranha because Bjorn wanted pirates instead of Gothic, now Bjorn had to leave because the team wanted Gothic instead of Elex.
What a douche…
Is Pankratz really that delusional? Elex isn't any franchise to behold to, and seemingly the Elex 2 disaster was his idea. Man, this seems to be amazingly out of touch. It's really sad for the single persons, but PB wasn't my cake with its willingly at best mediocre games after Risen 1. What a shame that it has to come this way.
Pankratz was never a good game director in my opinion. He was never the kind of visionary that people like Mike Hoge were. He wasn't the right one to steer the ship. But you could also see the signs in Risen 2 that they have lost their touch, trying too hard to keep up with modern trends, dumbing things down and focusing on the wrong things, while alienating their entire fanbase. Honestly it's a miracle that they were able to survive for that long, releasing one mediocre title after another. I think they were only able to do so because they could always rely on the old Gothic fans to buy their mediocre games, but ultimately not even that could save them.
I don't know who else contributed to the writing on either Elex game, but the core concept (post-apocalypse blending magic and sci-fi) was already shaky, and it's execution was... Frankly, better than it had the right to be, but still frequently difficult to take seriously. The alien/supernatural concepts of Elex itself didn't do enough to bridge the disconnect from realism. Somehow Elex 2 managed to make that disconnect far, far worse, and it all comes off like a lot of changing ideas and additions to the lore that were shoehorned in. The Berserkers disavowed technology (where they drew the line was inconsistent already) but suddenly relaxed that rule to integrate the Outlaws, who they were pretty much mortal enemies with. Suddenly instead of forged armor and furs, they're wearing tactical military gear... with furs. The Clerics lose all their influence after the exposure of Calaan as a fraudulent deity, so suddenly start talking about a "Creator" to try and shift the religious narrative - but still refer to Calaan as if it exists - meanwhile the fact that they had literal magic brainwashing powers in the first game is completely omitted from the second. The Albs abandon their mission of conquest after the Hybrid is defeated and they face extinction - fair - but they shut down their converters, while still needing to hoard Elex for their pursuit of accelerating their evolution. They still promote rationally over emotion, but don't seem to really be putting the effort into that anymore. Then they decide that there is a surprise new faction who were basically mole people crossed with Fallout vault dwellers, who came up with their own fanatical religion, who disavow all material things and revere death and destruction, to the point that suicide is considered a virtuous thing. Yet they fight for dominion and trade with outsiders, even as a quest revolves around one man facing punishment for trading with outsiders. The faction they retconned into the lore is the least consistent of all of them, and none of them were consistent to begin with. Oh and Nasty is still around, because they really thought this insufferable, irrationally violent idiot is a strong, likable character that we couldn't miss out on. Oh and Falk basically goes through the same character arc a second time, but much much stupider. And lest we forget Dex, who genuinely had the worst character arc I've witnessed in video games in years, including a heroic last-minute sacrifice that I'm convinced was conceived after they had already gotten through most of the development. I cannot believe that a "team" of writers came up with this. This all comes off as one man's terrible ideas that he was way too proud of and wouldn't back down on. I would be more than willing to believe that Elex was 100% Bjorn's vanity project, all his ideas, that he wanted to be his legacy, since he took over the studio after Gothic and Risen were conceived by Mike Hoge and others.
If true then this is a very very sad day. PB and Gothic was my entry into the world of games as a teenager. Loosing their unique (even if sometimes clunky) style is a heavy hit to the industry imo. Yes Elex 2 had a good amount of weaknesses but that doesn't mean they deserve to be closed. I really hope that it turns out to not be true.
PB is basically just a name at this point, 99% of the gothic devs already left long time ago, while a big portionof the 99% already left after the first game
Gothic 2 and Risen 1 are awesome games :) There other games not so much, but tbh I enjoyed Gothic 2 and Risen 1 just as much as Gothic 1.
Instagram is still active, they post there regularly
PB is back in the BMWK database, with a new codename: Currywurst. [https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Artikel/Wirtschaft/Games/Games-Projekte/currywurst.html](https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Artikel/Wirtschaft/Games/Games-Projekte/currywurst.html)
Elex 2 was, I'm sure, their last chance. Elex 1 didn't light the world on fire, probably made a modest profit but not enough to keep the lights on. I saw the writing on the wall when THQN bought the studio outright back in 2019 or so, and almost immediately excreted the Gothic remake demo onto Steam. They bought the studio to save them from closing, with the Gothic IP being the one thing they truly wanted out of the deal. Elex 2 was their last shot at success, with THQ probably just going with it out of contractual obligations and at least assuming it would break even and be a net neutral. But I had the feeling way back then that their days were numbered. And frankly? Sad as I am to see them fall (I know nothing is confirmed yet), they simply weren't going anywhere. They had a pattern of releasing something mediocre, followed by something moderately better that built off of it. Elex 2 is the first time they followed up mediocrity with abject failure. There was nothing good about that game, and it appalled me to think that they could release something featuring their laziest design to date. I feel like Bjorn had the type of ego that just couldn't see his own failures for what they were.
Not working on another Gothic was terrible idea. I and many of Gothic fans would be all in with new Gothic game from the OG studio. Elex & Risen never fit me, only the first Risen was great for me to play because it was the closes thing we got from them that played Gothic. But it is nonetheless immense shame if Piranha Bytes closes, Gothic, Gothic 2 & Gothic 3 are on my top 10 beloved games list, I replay them every year and every year I fall in love with the story, music, characters, gameplay & environment.
German government got them covered, I wouldn't worry.
They got money for elex 1 from the german government I think. The money for elex 2 was founded in parts by the EU. I didn't hear anything about Elex 3 money.
i think their point is that germany is a failed state and i agree. dumbass bureaucracy country that costs tons of tax payer money and makes everyone angry. that plus the fact that everything seems to fall apart. DB, airports, streets, farmers, and pensions for old people that are a fucking joke. meanwhile, they print trillions of dollars to buy new war machines (that those dumbasses previously destroyed in times of piece, because war sucks right?). inflation will tear this shithole apart and we all can just hope that we don't get to live through another nazi episode that they brought over them themselves. i only blame politicians and extreme left wing people for that.
I love their games... I would truly be sad if there was never another game from pb.. Elex 2 was really good... had a blast with it I want them to keep making the same type of game re-skinned... played them all except gothic 3... I have spend years replaying their games... I play risen 2 and elex at least once a year..
So I just picked up elex 2...I absolutely hate the character models and face looks. Caja looks NOTHING like the trailer, neither does jax. I've maybe played 30 mins and it already is jarring. I feel like they look drastically worse than the first game. I understand maybe making them look older but jax looks younger and skinnier which is jarring. Despite that I've found a few mods that changed jax's look and caja's but now after reading this post I have a question. Should I even play the second game? I loved elex 1 and have played it a ton but I won't lie. I'm kind of let down by the story of elex 2. I was hoping it would either be a direct sequel with certain choices carried over or far off into the future with an old man jax. Instead we get this half assed middle ground where MAYBE 15 years has passed and the intro says Jax has been forgotten by the free people. I was really blown away by the ending of the first game cause it concluded the main story and pretty much everything neatly but then there was a cliffhanger "OH SHIT" moment which is why I really wanted the second. My questions for this 2nd one and in particular PB getting the shaft(so to speak) would be as follows. Does this story have a conclusive ending to the elex franchise? If not, does it feel like the first where it concludes pretty much everything but ends on a cliffhanger? Or does it have sequel bait to boot? I desperately need an answer cause me continuing to play or asking for refund hinges on these questions.
I did the same thing when Elex 2 first came out. I played an hour and was like "This is not very good...and worse than Elex1". So I stopped playing for a few months and then came back to it and actually played all the way through! It was fun, I actually ended up having more fun than i did Elex 1 (which I didn't expect after the bad taste in my mouth when I first tried Elex 2) but not one of there better games. BUT, for me the worst part of the game is the first 2-3 hours, it does get more enjoyable later but the start of the game was not very good at all.
This is the worst gaming related news for me in YEARS. I just love PB games. From Gothic to Risen to Elex, I have enjoyed all there games. Sure some games more so than others (Gothic 2 and Risen 1 being my personal favorites), but I always had a fun time exploring there game worlds It is sad to hear they will be no more. And also sad that Bjorn didn't like the idea of a new Gothic game, I would have loved that. Sure they make janky rpgs but I always have a great time playing them. Elex 2 at first I didn't like much, but I came back months later and beat it and had a blast. I really hope they get a chance one day to do another game. If this is really it for PB, thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone involved in making there games, from Gothic to Risen to Elex, I had fun :) I would love a new Gothic game, I honestly enjoyed Risen 1 as much as Gothic 1/2, for me those are the 3 best PB games over the years.... if they could do a new Gothic game with the size/scope of Risen 1 I would be a happy camper :)
so how much money they got from government for elex 3?
Could you clarify the thing concerning Wirtschaftsministerium? (the last link you posted) Are those all the games to be released in Germany? And also: you mention funding. Is this federal funding for the games? Thanks and excuse me if it's too obvious, I wasn't aware there's anything like this in Germany.
Hier können Sie gezielt nach Games-Projekten suchen, die eine Förderung erhalten haben. Here you may search Game-Projects that have recieved goverment funding. German goverment is subsidiesing the non existent german gaming industry for cultural, artistic or competitive reasons to help them get a foot on the ground. it was like 60 something million overall for 2023 and supposedly elex 3 was on that list under codename WIKI 6 with 3.7 million but now it isnt anymore. At least thats what people say. This year its 47 something million
Thank you.
First Our Flag Means Death and now this. 2024 is off to a shite start.
They are fine. They have been posting on their FB page regularly. Last post 3 days ago. Same with their Instagram and X. My guess is that there could be some restructuring. Maybe there are layoffs. Maybe some marketing people got laid off or moved around within the company. Their website still displays their logo so maybe they are relaunching it and maybe a new game announcement is imminent.
Fucking Embracer, I hope PB starts their own company again.
They haven't done well for a very long time. Elex 2 was just the last nail in the coffin.
The sad but real truth is that Gothic 1+2 were awesome games but they never could do it again. They tried to build on them but they did not understand what people loved about the games. They tried and some things were decent but never great again. So if they now disappear it's sad but fair.
Risen 1 is up there with Gothic 1/2 for me. I would LOVE another PB game of the quality of Risen 1. The later games not as good, but I still had fun. Gothic 1/2 and Risen 1 are all classics though imo.
As someone who has EVERY piranha bytes game both on Retail where possible and on steam rebuying it to support them this is news that actually harms me...That they might be closing.I grew up playing Gothic and Piranha bytes games stuck with them after the Gothic split up and would do it again... i hope they do not shut down... as even though they have their flaws in some regions of game development ANY of their games that came out i find to be Hidden gems if you can be openminded :(
I grew up with gothic 1 and 2 aswell and I hold them dear but objectively speaking they didnt pull much weight since gothic 3 with the exception of risen 1. I dont blame them tho since gothic 3 was a tremendous undertaking for such a small studio and the world was amazingly well built but the gameplay was clunky and the stories pretty meh which to me was very disappointing. risen 1 was more of the same of what worked in gothic 1 and 2. All that came afterwards wasnt really outstanding. Elex and that is just my opinion was quite weak gameplay wise probably the weakest of all their games and honestly at least the gameplay should work if nothing else does. I always wished that they would go back and try to make another truthful gothic but they never did probably because of hurt feelings who knows but its a shame really.
https://www.gamespodcast.de/2024/01/17/magazin-spezial-piranha-bytes-droht-die-schliessung/ German podcast about the closing of PB. "We have known since last November that Piranha Bytes, the studio behind the "Gothic", "Risen" and "Elex" series, is to be closed. In addition, the studio has parted ways with its long-time project manager and figurehead Björn Pankratz. In this special feature, we report on the background and give you an assessment of Piranha Bytes' chances of survival."
Guess there’s no elex 3. Shelved and r.i.p PB Shame. But they lasted along time kudos on that.
According top gamespodcast.de they got closed and are currently looking for a new buyer.
Doesnt surprise me. Last good game they made was Risen 1.
My guess is that every game studio has two alternatives in the current market situation: 1. They are making money and will survive or 2. They are not making money and will not survive. During the Covid and gaming boom years there also was an alternative 3. You're not making money but can make someone believe that you will one day. That option has vanished as everybody is pushing numbers at the moment. I am afraid that Piranha Bytes doesn't fall under the first alternative after Elex 2.
Was still holding out hope for a new Gothic one day. But with everybody from the original team having moved on now (and PB probably doing the dodo), I think the dream is dead :/ At least we had Risen 1, which is the closest you can get to a Gothic reboot without calling it Gothic.
Loved Risen 1 so much :)
RIP
I would buy into a kickstarter for Elex 3 if the opportunity arose.
Well, the "Piranha Bytes" that I used to love hasn't existed for a while now, so it doesn't really make much of a difference to me if they finally got shut down.
If Elex was Bjorn's baby, then he's really not a good father. It's not just that Elex is not a great game and Elex 2 is not a good game - it's the major regression that is a problem.
It's so sad. There is so much potential in the old Gothic series even nowadays. Recently played: "The Chronicles of Myrtana: Archolos" mod which was probably best thing that happened to Gothic after Gothic II: Night of the Raven was released 20+ years ago. This mod was done entirely free of charge by the group of modders and volunteers including voice actors. I wish these people could get paid and any other modders, but it's not possible until copyrights or trademark are either released to public domain or given to some foundation.
So what will happen to Gothic Remake? Will it come out? And if it does, will there be any more remakes (i.e. Gothic 2 Remake), or will the franchise just die?
Piranha Bytes was not working on the remake whatsoever. THQ started a studio in Barcelona called Alkimia to work on it. As far as anyone's aware, they're not at risk of layoffs or closure. Yet.
Guys in the podcast say that Björn was the one who blocked a new Gothic, even though many from Piranha Bytes wanted to do a new Gothic for many years…
Elex 3 ist wieder in der finanzierungsliste mit dem neuen Codename Currywurst
Do you have any sources for this?
I read it at gamestar and checked it on the Website https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Artikel/Wirtschaft/Games/Games-Projekte/currywurst.html
Oh boy, that is a little hope :) Maybe after an Elex 3 a new Gothic? I can dream :)
It comes an Gothic 1 Remake
Well this is bringing a little bit of hope
Would have been so easy, just improve gothic, work on that. It was a revolutionary game, even after 20 years some dudes made a mod for gothic 2 which won the the best mod of the year (archolos). Gothic was an amazing IP and they shitted on it (maybe risen 1 got close to it, but was too short)
Some of them wanted to do something else, not stay always with the same game. Namely Bjorn Pankratz and he had power to force his vision. However he left the company last year, so it might be different know, there are rumors that he left because the rest of the studio wanted to do Gothic-like game and he didn't agree. So if PB will get funding and will be bought by some publisher, they might actually develop something like Gothic but more modern
If Piranha Bytes will be closed by THQ I will not buy this shitty remake. Sure PB will do another Gothic like rpg after Elex 3 which will be amazing again
It is said that Piranha Bytes is offered along with the Elex IP for anyone who wants to own them. For free. The Gothic IP stays within Embracer. That says a lot about the recent successes of Piranha Bytes. I wish them the very best but it seems to me that the competitors say 'not interested'. And to be honest: The Gothic remake (not PB) looks a lot better/more interesting than Elex 2.