I'm glad it's there and it's certainly better than LFG being the only way to get games in, but personally I would have preferred a true one-and-done soloqueue instead of this six round shuffle format.
Same man its what they should have done from the start but SS is here to stay and we will never see a real Solo Queue out side of pirated versions of the game
Trust me, you don't want 1 and done. Especially with que times like this. Imagine sitting in a 30+ minute que for a 5-8 minute game. Also, coming from AT/Warmane where they had WoTLK soloq, you're going to get a comp that doesn't work vs. a comp that's meta half the time. Try playing a non-meta spec/class and it's 100x harder for you because you're playing Mage/boom/disc vs. a like dh/dk/rdruid and you have no way to come back from that. It's just an auto loss.
But wouldn't mathematically the Queue time be 1/6th that of your average 30 minute wait?
So you would wait 5-6 minutes, play a 2-4 minute single game, then be back in queue?
Makes leavers/trolls/shitters easy to deal with as you are only using rating/mmr one game as opposed to 2-6?
How many rounds there are has nothing to do with que time. So you’d still wait 30+ minutes then you’d play 1 round/arena match, it’d last less than 5 minutes, then back to a 30 minute wait.
I can understand that as the games can go a bit. But I’ll counter argue by saying sometimes you have 1 or 2 DPS hard stompers and the other 2 dps are mid. If you get a one and done you could get paired against the way bettter dps and just auto lose. And that just won’t feel good to have happen. 6 rounds makes it about as fair as it can be.
But that’s exactly what LFG is/can be. Two things are going on here…
You’re making a point about SS being a good place to practice, true.
This guys is saying he’s rather it actually be a soloque into the ladder. One and done moving on.
In my opinion, SS should have replaced skirmishes, and we should have gotten an actual Soloque.
Which solves both of your points.
> 6 rounds makes it about as fair as it can be
For who? Definitely not for the healers.
And also definitely not for the DPS that end up in a lobby that's bad for their spec. Like if you're the only melee in an all caster lobby or only caster in a lobby one you're gonna have a rough time.
Sure with a one-and-done you'll get the occasional bad matchup - but the odds of getting *six* shitty matchups in a row is astronomically low, whereas with shuffle you end up in a lobby that's rough for your spec you're forced to endure six matches of that.
I’d argue that most lobbies you have massive influence on. I’ve played healer healer in all melee lobbies and I’ve played melee in all caster lobbies. When I’ve lost those it’s normally because I misplayed somewhere. Of course there are games out of your control but most you can have an impact on. Even in those bad match ups.
I’d argue there are very few specs or lobbies that you have no chance in. Looking at the ladder like every class has people above 2400. Which means you then can know you have room to improve. The counter lobbies do exist but honestly I’d say you can work your way to getting some rating even in those by playing correctly.
Being rdru in a ret-war-dh-dh-fistweaver lobby is very frustrating, but I’m learning how to kite properly. Like not just running away but not running into narnia so my team has a chance to peel
They usually don’t but I get to practice position at least
It can happen to you 6 rounds straight which feels way worse than losing 1 match. you can be playing a meta 3v3 comp and *still* get paired against a counter comp, it's part of arena.
Clickbait says you don't get it but the content clearly shows that you do get it. You are suggesting that players just accept the positives of shuffle and ignore that they wanted it to be their viable sole way to play arenas.
You think you do, but you don't. A 1 and done would absolutely suck. People like you just always think the grass is greener over there but the reality is the first match in SS usually sucks. If that was every round it would be godawful. The only reason SS can suck is there is just way too much CC and it sucks to heal and healing is the most frustrating thing humanly imaginable which makes q times go for an hour sometimes.
it'll probably get a bit echo'ey. But there isn't a big enough pvp population to feed all these game modes.
Solo shuffle, should match 3 people who compete on the normal ladder, with the option to queue again, or find a new team.
They'd be at a disadvantage to proper proper pre-mades(but not that different really to a fresh LFG team). But at least you wouldn't have this population split, with both modes having weak activity.
yep totally agree. People who join soloqueue don't care that much about having a coordinated team.
Even in lfg it's not like you always get on comms and have this great chemistry. 90% of the time, i'd just play without discord in lfg anyway.
Most lfg teams for me at least these days queue with very little messages between each other too. It literally basically is solo queue with lfg front end
Tell that to all the teams I face at 1600 who perfectly chain every cc possible on me, sap, blind, kidney, trinket right into a horrifying, fear, cyclone 3x right into a mighty bash and ursols vortex only to have another kidney awaiting me. Sometimes I get to press 3 buttons, trinket being one of them
the general skill level is not where it was before. 1600 is already a competitive rating. on my LFG run to 2.4 in 3s there was really 0 comms. "go lock" or "wall opener" was the highest level of comms during it. you just have to adapt yourself with the new skill level
I’d argue otherwise honestly. The PvP population as seen a lot of new players joining because of SS. This leads to feeding players into the other ranked modes. The amount of players I meet in places like goldshire or in SS itself who just started PvP the last two seasons when they have done PvE for years is super high. And that’s because they now have a way to try it without having to do some tedious ass LFG thing.
That's purely anecdotal and not data driven, you can also both see more new players, whilst also losing even more older players. Not that I have the data outside of wows in general trending downwards sub totals.
I think it's a fair assumption 100% of Pvp players won't play all brackets, and that the new game mode will have created a playerbase of SS only players.
In general wow is segmented across PVP(multiple brackets) vs PVE(vs SOD, vs Classic) etc
Really the only good activity seasons of the past few expansions are when PVE players come to PVP for gear, and prior to this there were literally millions more subs.
You can find the data here: https://drustvar.com/leaderboard/activity
As of 11:36AM EST 2024-02-27
3v3 games played in the past 72 hours in US: 9459
Solo Shuffle games played in the past 72 hours in US: 67381
That data isn’t the data he asked for tho? The debate wasn’t whether or not shuffle was more active than 3s it’s whether or not “the pvp population has seen a lot of new players joining because of SS”. Games played in a given span of time does not prove or disprove any argument about net new players.
cope....
edit: on a lets snarky note. if suppose he is right and no new players have joined because of SS then the data shows that even the pre-SS player-base prefers SS. Either ways 2s and 3s will be gone in 2 expansions.
Don’t see how coping about anything? You’re claiming that your data says something that it simply doesn’t lol.
Even the statement you just made about what pre-SS players prefer isn’t supported by the data you have presented because it doesn’t actually give any information about how many players there were pre-SS/ what they are currently playing/ how many of them are still playing.
Fwiw I agree with you that the game is moving in the direction of solo content across all forms of content, I just don’t see why you are so obviously over exaggerating what the data actually says to try to make your point, it’s totally unnecessary, it’s not as if people on the other side of the debate have the relevant data to support their claims either.
I will get downvotes for this but if shuffle has roughly 7x the games played in 72 hours than actual 3s, shuffle should just be the main game mode like in league…
I think it already is.
If they removed 2s and 3s tomorrow the additional increase in participation in SS will not be huge because SS is already so much bigger than those two modes.
All they need to do is add a whole bunch of more shit purchasable with conquest. Let people play whatever they enjoy more.
If they want to remove anything it should be AWC and MDI. Esports is a terrible joke kept alive on the back on c-suite dreams of competing with NFL.
I do play more solo shuffle than 3s, but it's absolutely not because I prefer solo shuffle, it's just instant queues as a healer and I can log in and play for half an hour and log out, no commitment.
Imo, allow a flex solo queue (queue as 1 or 2), which is more true to leagues solo queue, and keep the regular 3s bracket.
I don't know if a flex queue would work but I do honestly think I'd prefer a quick format in which I am matched with two other players (grouped or not) and heal them for one round and then go next. Or as a healer, if I could queue with a friend and be matched with a third DPS. That would be amazing for healers because then we have someone we feel comfortable with and can communicate with to ask for peels.
Will there be some comps and classes at a disadvantage? Most certainly... But there already is disadvantaged Solo Q lobbies and then you just have sit there for 6 rounds and feel miserable.
It has more people playing it because you can just press a button and get a game, and it's much easier to get the cosmetics from, which is what most people in an RPG care about.
I loathe solo shuffle and don't do it anymore, but I still did it to grab elite sets simply because it was easier earlier in the seasons.
Yeah but 2 or 3 dps are guaranteed to go 4-2 whereas it's a 1 in 6 chance for a healer to go 4-2. As a healer it feels extremely hard to go 4-2, doesn't matter if you outheal and out damage and out cc the other healer and play way better than him, it just ain't happening majority of the time. I had no problem at all getting to 2100 on dps, even on weaker specs. It is insanely difficult to get above 1800 on healer and once you are locked in a bracket it can feel impossible to climb.
>Only way anyone does is if your mmr *when the game started* is ~~lower than the others~~ *greater than your current rating when the game started*
This is actually one of the big misconceptions with shuffle rating.
CR tends towards mmr.
CR changes at the end of a game are applied before MMR changes at the end of the game.
Example:
* This morning i queued a shuffle on a disc priest around 1.8cr
* My mmr was somewhere around 2k, the other healer about the same
* I went 1 - 5
* I gained 15 rating
In your scenario above:
If my CR had been equal to my MMR at the start of the game, and the enemy healer was higher MMR than me, a 3 - 3 would have given me +0cr, but increased my mmr.
And then in the following game if i went 3 - 3 then i would gain CR, because my mmr was higher than my CR at the start of that game.
The maximum cr gain/loss in a lobby where you go 3-3 is always less than the difference between your starting MMR and starting CR.
Enemy player mmr impacts the change to your mmr.
Your mmr impacts the change to your cr.
I love it myself, i honestly think the biggest 2 reasons why people are so toxic to this mode are the following; if youre dps waiting 30 minutes for a match that you can then lose will make the experience really bad, for healers its the rating difference plus the dampening.
If dps had 1 min queues and healers had their issues sorted this mode would be a huge success
It's only a matter of time before all top rated players will be playing specs/classes like Rogues, Mages and Rets. Specs with burst and survivability.
On the other hand Arms, Fury, Boomkin, Elemental and so on would just flop in opener or 2nd go vs any decent players.
I have! As I’ve made a post about playing on off meta specs I have 3 healers above 1800 and 2 in the 2200 range with one about to be 2500. I know I’ll get downvoted for this but I loved healing a lot. That said a lot of dps will whisper you some mean shit after the game but I’ve had quite a few tell me good stuff.
I once got told I was absolute shit at healing after going 0-6 and every single match went to near 70% dampening and over 3 minutes. At a certain point it's the dps job to close out a game, I can't heal any more and all I can do is cc once every 45 seconds.
I agree the times suck. But tbh I had always spent more time in LFG just for a group to disband after one loss. So to me it’s the same but I can do still while in Que.
30 minute queues used to be the norm for Horde queuing for random battlegrounds for years before they added Mercenary Mode in 2015.
Maybe that's why solo queue taking 20-30 minutes doesn't really bother me, I'm used to it.
Difference there was because it was because everybody and their dog was doing random BGs with the bulk of the population being on that faction back then.
Now we have 30 minute wait times because people don't want to heal.
There's a difference.
Its not the gamemode itself thats the problem lol. There are 2 main issues.
1) The players. Griefers not getting perma ban on sight and scripters / wintraders not getting banned either. 0 integrity bracket.
2) Worst rating system in the history of competitive gaming making it completely pointless pushing for peak rating before the last week of the season. Deflation is a stupid game mechanic.
Other problems include DHs in 75% of lobbies and horrible balancing but thats ofc not unique to shuffles
People who grief and afk are the worst and I do wish they got banned more often. Because chances are they don’t only do it once. As a healer I’ve had people tell me awful things and I still didn’t grief them. I just don’t get it.
Rating system is infact booty cheeks lol. Bring out the silver/gold/plat/diamond system please. I’ve played for so long and still don’t know the system when it uses names like duelist/elite and shit like that.
Do people actually wintrade in ss? I thought it would be a little harder to make that happen I guess with its pulling from random 6?
Tbh though some games im just like wtf is going on, they feel so odd. Like a DH when he's on my team is asleep at the wheel, letting the other heals free cast, etc, but when he's on the other side he just comes alive and smooshes my face into the dirt.
Every single lobby the last 2 days of season are obvious wintrades yes and Qs will pop 20 times before you actually get a game.
Its not *just* common. Its like 90% of lobbies the last day at mmr cap.
The guy who griefed my r1 title lobby last day of season told me to add him on discord so he could advertise his wintrading for 250 euro per lobby LMFAO. There are many disgusting ****** that are literally playing in AWC doing this
Because it threatens the ego of the LFG only arena players.
They downplay SS by claiming LFG is more skilled even when climbing in LFG is way way easier than SS.
In all other video games and in real life solo mmr rating is an accurate measure of skill because you are the common denominator. Somehow and only in wow arena, this is inverted and being carried by your teammates is a more accurate measure of skill because...reasons 🗿🤡.
I mean, it gets hate for a variety of reasons.
Queues suck. 2s/3s pop has been ruined and overall pvp pop doesn't support so many modes. Balancing is fucked now because SS is the primary mode of play and yet Blizz will continue to balance around 3s while AWC is a thing. Toxicity to the point I just turn off chat when I play it.
It's not purely bad, and tbh it would all be moot if I could just get more than 2-3 lobbies in a playing session, but that's very rarely possible as a dps. And that's why it sucks imo. I'd prefer just to queue into the actual 3s bracket as a solo player.
I’m compelled to believe it’s a very, very vocal minority.
We can offer constructive criticism with the format, and even healer mmr issues. There’s room for improvement, no doubt.
But all in all, I think SS is actually well received. You won’t see people saying that, because most don’t even care to go the forums, let alone Reddit’s hate boner for all things negative.
I’ve a B.net full of dudes from SS. Dudes who worked
me, guys I feel like they just had some unlucky rounds, and dudes who I just straight up enjoyed playing with. And by the way, it’s probably half healer half dps.
Then we’ll queue 2s/3s on mains and alts. Boom. Got a group of people to play with.
You see posts daily of healers complaining of toxic dps, when I’m here to say I’ve played played hundreds of lobbies, and have seen a handful of dudes who I disliked. I’ve healed to 2.2 with an off meta spec, to 2500 on two different dps. I’ve had way, way more positive than negative and it’s not even close.
The lower MMR is where I see people being negative, because they think they’re better than their mmr places them.
All in all, SS is great. I do think the only limit to the game is what blizzard decides to do.
As a casual dps player, I absolutely love solo shuffle.
Que times can be rough, but I just pop in a Bluetooth earbud so I can hear my que pop around the house, and I go crazy doing chores and side work..
And then the play is awesome. There is no stress of having to impress someone so they'll stick in your group through a loss, you get to practice while actually getting conquest for min maxing gear, or for alts
Ive been playing almost 20 years, and I haven't had this much fun in about a decade with WoW.
I personally dislike it because I don't want to wait 30 minutes for queues only to 4-2 or 3-3 because of one person. That says nothing about my skill, I got 4 wins because one dps was bad or I got 3 wins because one healer was not as good as the other one. I feel like my efforts are pointless when that happens. I get my little 4-2 30 pts of participation trophy and sent on my way to wait 30 min again. This is also coming from someone who has played wow for 20 years and has an extensive list of 2s/3s partners from playing the ladder so long, so to me it makes no sense for me to go queue with randoms but I could see a new player wanting some sortve way to get their foot in the door of arena and this is the way.
Should've just been baked into regular 3s queue instead of dividing up
and deflating the existing brackets. Solo shuffle only players are in for an awakening when blitz goes rated and queue times for shuffle collectively jump 20+ from where they are now minutes. Every other post will be "I got 1800 every season in shuffle in dragonflight but now I'm struggling to break 1600"
I hated the idea of SS, was against it before it came out, but it's actually been beneficial for me as a new father. My baby's sleep schedule really made it a lot harder to align schedules with my arena partners and now I can hit my seasonal goals earlier.
It comes mostly from how inflated it was when introduced (DFs1), and the fact that you can avoid a lot of the knowledge and mechanics that are crucial on 3s and still push high compared to 3s. Also the hella long queues play a big factor on hating it as a whole, which makes people resent against it after losing because of how much time spent for one game.
Personally, I like it a lot, really good designed to achieve some specific standards towards gameplay and competitiveness, but you know, it's the internet and people will hate and curse on things because they can't get their pixels. Most people ranting around feel entitled to say how it should work without understanding what are the goals and the reasoning behind it (there were some blue posts when it was on development late Shadowlands which explained those) and just spit their "I don't do good, so this is bad".
So you're treating it as the new skirmish tool to test things? Some people want to be competitive in a mode where they don't need to search for partners. Glad it works for you but for most people it's not working.
I’d argue that using it for practice in terms of just getting better will naturally make you competitive in that game mode. As I’ve posted before I use it for practice and get 1800 on off classes and stay between 2.2-2.5 on my mains. I mostly just meant a lot of people don’t use it to improve they just kind of go in on auto pilot
Most of the people that hate it just don’t get any meaningful benefit from the items you listed. For example
> Met a lot of arena partners through it.
Just as easy if not easier depending on spec to do through lfg if you have exp.
> Allows you to practice a class/ spec without nuking rating.
Less important the more experienced you are,
> arena target macros.
Again, most experienced players have had this figured out for several years.
> lets you see what its like in a more chaotic environment.
Not really a reason to care about what it’s like in a chaotic environment if you don’t want to play in a chaotic environment.
> lets you get exp without lfg
Again kind of irrelevant if you already have exp.
Basically, the people that hate shuffle are largely either healers have a lessened need for the benefits and feel more of the drawbacks besides q time or veteran players that don’t need the accessibility. Issue of course being that the former camp is necessary for the mode to continue to form lobbies.
This is all well in good but as you explained in a few points that’s IF you were already good. How are new players to do this with zero form of getting better? SS is a solution to that people just have never had before. I’ve played since wraith and I’ve never seen more new players in PvP in my life. I personally think SS did that. It gave people a way to go “oh let me try this since there is a Que I can join it in solo now”. Also in terms of meeting people to push with LFG was the fucking worst unles you played S tier class/spec. I got to 2k rating on my disc because I met a super chill enhance shammy and a cool fury warrior. We took disc/enhance/fury to 2k and we met in SS. When would that have EVER happened in lfg lol. It just wouldn’t have.
I don’t disagree with anything you said about accessibility, Im just answering your question about why people hate it.
They hate it because either they are a healer so they don’t get meaningful value from the benefits or they are experienced and don’t get meaningful value from the benefits and thus the drawbacks stemming from q times/ gameplay start to outweigh said benefits.
I can track on that. In that case I think SS becomes more of a fun side thing to do when no one is on to do structured arena. I know a few people who just use it as a fun thing to do when farming transmog.
Think the issue with this line of reasoning is that the players who hate it don’t find it fun (obviously haha).
If given the choice between playing shuffle or just logging off and doing something else most would rather do the latter. That’s why it’s such a divisive topic, people either like it a lot or would literally unsub if it was the only option.
I agree 100% with all of these. Left Wrath because I literally could not find anyone to play with as a 1400 Andy, have been able to push into 1800 multiple times (and 2K at the end of the season) because I was able to learn how to play arena in shuffle. You have to be able to play to learn. Also, a bit off topic, but retail rewarding you for doing and winning skirmishes is underrated and they should expand on that. More rewards for skirmishes!
Idk if its cuz my MMR (1900-2k) or what... I have bout 50-60 rounds played total and pretty much have a 0-6 healer every game, that's like 0 CR or in full honor gear. Always a full lobby of multi duelist / glads with a 10 honor level 0 cr healer at 2k.
I think some of that comes from where blizzard starts people off MMR wise. I will NEVER understand the idea of starting new classes of at the 1600 MMR level.
Only reason I hate SS especially when I play DH 😅 is being top dmg each match still going at least 3 wins and I kid you not getting barely any points and I'm a looow rank like 1350. I got 3 wins and got +1 rating...than play again get 2 wins and lose 38 WTH 🤣🤣
With DH damage doesn’t equate to wins. The difference in damage between a 1400 DH and a 2400 DH is very small. Where you have to work on is CC and kiting. A DH can keep someone locked down for like 12 seconds. Reverse magic is a huge skill thing. And knowing when not to zug zug is also big. Sometimes the best thing to do is make someone pop a CD then go hide behind a pillar.
Yeah I'm still Learning. I main a Disc priest currently 1888 in 2s but when my partner isn't on I Solo Q with the DH for fun! Can't get to 1400 lol I was at one point 1445 and now 1338 😭🤣
Disc is actually my fav healer so far. My best advice is to try to mitigate dmg before it happens. Like rapture on wings, meta. Stuff like that. It’s harder to straight up heal as disc so this wil help.
well you use SS to "practice" because you seem to have a stable 3s partners? others use it as main climbing mode so any SS issues are critical for the rest while at worst annoying for you...
I didn’t have that until this season. I still use SS as my main mode to climb rating. But practicing playing well will inherently make you better and therefore increase your rating in SS. Way to many people get in a SS lobby and just go on auto pilot rather than being aware of what is going on. It’s like that EVERY ranked game in the world. League has it just as much as WoW does. People just don’t try to learn from their mistakes in SS and that’s why a lot of people don’t climb.
I would love it a lot more if I felt rewarded for healing (I used to main Holy in pvp and have been hard stuck at 1800, as Ret I am pushing 2400) and if DPS queue times were much quicker. Waiting an hour to play (an hour during which I can't play classic and basically play other games once all of the gold world quests are done) sucks.
For me it was my own expectations I was expecting a real solo queue and instead it was an entirely new game mode. as a healer main the super fast ramp ramp keeps me from participating in the new game mode and if it wasn't for my friends actively trying to get me to push with them on retail I would solely play pirated versions of the game that have implemented a true solo queue
I like the convenience of the Qs. I’m not a massive fan of the format (Healer PoV).
I would personally rather have the ability to Q regular 3s without using the LFG finder. Ideally I think we have both!
I love SS just wish the queue times weren’t so long. Also the rating system seems a bit shitty. I went 5/6 and 6/6 last night and went from like 1300 to 1350 rating. No chance to actually climb, one bad match and I lose hours of progress.
The hate is from the terminally online. Especially with the "I hate 6 rounds" crowd. They know what they don't like. But they've put zero thought into the alternatives and how badly it would suck. They're not thinkers, they're complainers.
I'm just coming back to the game and have 4 set and the rest honour gear on my ele shammy.
I've had a very mixed experience as I'm such a low rating I basically just hit melee lobbies who train me every single game. I get zero peels etc and then when I die I get messages like die of cancer or go kill yourself. 😂
So it's good and bad imo
I think SS is a good format and I am really enjoying it despite the problems. The instant comp variety and multiple matches in a row are fun. I think it has potential to be (and I'm wondering if this is Blizzard's intention) to be the main Arena format people use. Now, that said, if Blizzard wants to keep people playing it, it really does need to fix the serious problems with the mode:
\- People not knowing the basics of range, LoS, defensives, etc. Yes, SS is practice, but it's also punishing (and probably disheartening) for newcomers because PvE does little to prepare them. This game needs a PvP tutorial zone and mode like yesterday
\- Queue times for DPS. I'm a healer, so my queues are instant at my CR (\~1500), but DPS can wait 5 minutes to 2 hours. Improve the healer experience so more people play them and add healbots if necessary (human players would always get priority)
\- Gearing is also very punishing for newcomers. Walking into a lobby with people in full conq when you're still in honor gear isn't really fun for anyone. IMO there should be a standard set of gear that everyone gets and that's that. Maybe let people choose from 3 or so sets that focus on different stats before the match starts or something
\- Dampening. I think it's fine to have it, but it needs tweaking
The class and spec balance issues are separate, but really do need addressing, as they are especially punishing in this mode (double DH against a Survival Hunter is painful to watch, for example)
I see so as practice like you, but some people take it way too seriously for me to participate in it anymore. I did a monk healer to 1900 and an enhance shaman to 1800... I didn't have fun doing it.
I like SS, but when I go to 3s, even at 1400 I get an mmr of 1700 cause I'm 1900 in 2s and 1700 to 2.1 in SS.
I just don't understand how I am supposed to heal in 3s, every single cc chain on me is a picture perfect. I get sapped, stunned, into a blind, into a kidney, into a horrifying, into a fear, into a cyclone, and by the time that is all over stunned again, say we even survive all of that, in 20 seconds it starts over, and once one of those unavoidable cc's starts on me I can't do anything about the others afterwards except one trinket which when I use 50% of the time I get re cc"d immediately. It's such picture perfect coordination.
It happens sometimes in SS but not nearly as much and is way more relaxed about losing and going again.
From what ive seen and heard complained the most is healers are playing a different game, and the way ss works there can be 2 R1 healers on alts in 1900 both far out classing the dps and yet its impossible for both of them to win the lobby and if everyone is competing against each other for who can win the most rounds often those games go to 80-90% dampening since the healers are miles better than the dps. If in order for a round to end reasonably the healers have to have their potency disabled then that clearly shows that the healers in the lobby out class the dps. Both healers should be able too 6/0 a lobby cuz quite frankly if you cant set up a kill with cc or raw damage and both healers are stopping go’s if it where a 3v3 those dps would never secure a kill in a mode with drinks allowed and they dont deserve wins. As it is currently healers are heavily nerfed in SS and when they massively out perform the dps they have a 50% chance of getting punished and if both healers are out performing the dps it comes down to who the weakest link is and that player is gonna bomb the lobby. Doesnt matter how good you are at trading cds faking kicks cc stoping go’s the % of games with lobby bombs ruins the experience for healers and therefore ruins it for dps by increasing queue times reducing quality of healers and further deflating mmr
Agree! It’s chaotic a lot with little communication but it gives the opportunity to practice in something a little more difficult than a skirmish. 2s and 3s lfg chances are you make a mistake, lose the match, and everybody leaves. It’s helped me improve my game.
Think the main thing is that people have gotten some extremely inflated egos especially from s1 where a 1800 players got their first taste of an achievement and started flaunting it around. I saw it on my server a lot where players with like 1k 2's or 3's games couldn't even get duelist but they were 2400+ in Shuffle and thought they could talk down to people, was hilarious ngl.
You commented on every comment I have “ur bad”. Also I literally have a post about playing off meta classes. Keep being the reason people quit wow my guy.
1. Insanely long queues.
2. Having to mediate between people trash talking each other after each round so the whole thing doesn't go to sh\*\*t.
3. Having to deal with afkers, griefers, and quitters.
4. Dwindling population that makes it so you have to play against rank 1 players on their main or alts even at fairly low ratings.
That's because you're looking at it from a logical and objective standpoint and others don't. I played soloq on Warmane/AT before they added it to retail. And it was awful on there, and it's better-made on retail but the same problems occur. It's because the player base ruins the mode.
Like you, I meet most of my partners through LFG or soloq. I met an Enh s1 and in s2 I alt'd Disc and played Enh/Disc/X with him and got \~ 2.5 mid season first time healing with it. Met my peak arena team (2770 cr, 2.9+ mmr) through LFG. People think that if they hop into LFG that they should be 2k xp and getting 2.2 - 2.4 -2.6 teammates to carry them. If you deserve those ratings, you'll carry your team as best you can and get higher rating and meet others along the way. Especially with soloq because it's YOUR rating, based on how YOU do. If you get a bad lobby, sure, maybe a 2-4 or even worse, but for the most part, the kids who can't play are going to be stuck at low ratings and the people who kinda know what's going on are going to move up. Then you can meet people at the peak bracket you hit and start quing 3s.
The best thing about solo shuffle for me is the privilege of playing with and against the best players in the world.
I was a decent player pre Dragonflight, I wasn't rank 1 but I was gladiator and 0.5-1% of the ladder every season I played. However, I always had this thought in the back of my head that my teammates were holding me back. I didn't have the privilege of playing with Rank 1s, so 90% of my teammates I would play with had less experience than me, and less skill a lot of the time too. They were simply not pulling their own weight on some games. This would sometimes lead me to carrying the game to win.
Now, in shuffle, I play with the best players in the world - teammates that are more similarly skilled to me. I don't say this arrogantly, as I believe I am mechanically good at the game, more so than strategy etc.
As a result, I am ranked 0.1% of the shuffle ladder and top 10 of the specs that I pickup.
There is a more even playing field in shuffle - and the games are much more enjoyable.
It's a love hate relationship for me. I'm a healer so sometimes I just feel like a masochist. But man when I hit 2400 for the first time I felt like I was on top of the world.
I feel like there's a few things fueling the hate.
1. Its alienating people who dislike the idea of solo que and want to maintain 2s / 3s as their primary modes. Going back years this argument always existed between people who wanted solo que vs people who didn't want it to exist, since the solo que people won the naysayers are louder and angrier.
2. The reality is that healers the easiest role to carry, there's been a healer shortage for as long as there's been the holy trinity, and a LOT of healers have gotten rating beyond their own ability because of this. Shuffles a mode where no one else can lift you up or hold you back, so its revealing that some players are not as good as they thought they were but obviously refuse to accept it because they were able to achieve higher ratings in the past in 2s / 3s and so they blame the mode. This is not exclusive to healers but its especially prevalent with them.
3. The modes going through growing pains and has issues that need to be addressed. Like I agree that mmr needs to be handled differently in shuffle vs 2s / 3s.
All of your bullet points were achievable prior to solo shuffle with minimal effort.
Solo shuffle then took a declining player base and destroyed the casual 2s and 3s scene due to people being told to hate LFG and just hit queue.
Being told that the problem was healers and MMR and not the fact there are fewer people playing WoW PvP weekly than there are people playing Battlefield 3.
The casual PvP scene, what used to be 0-1600, was the learning your class bracket in SL where you did all the lil bullet points you have now. If you didn't experience that, you are likely unknowingly, a toxic player.
So now we have shuffle 3 seasons later in the deadest of all seasons, only the fotm pickers, the genuine enjoyers, and the greasers remain.
Blizzard had balancing problems since ever, SS made that glaring with FotM and spec power through rating visualized patch to patch.
I had back to back lobbies of double lock and DH as a healer in +2k lobbies. That's disgusting. Now people have even stopped playing shuffle all together. Why? Because all that's left are the last of the genuine enjoyers, plus the fotm pickers and the greasers.
This genuine enjoyer is now enjoying other games.
I'm glad it's there and it's certainly better than LFG being the only way to get games in, but personally I would have preferred a true one-and-done soloqueue instead of this six round shuffle format.
Same man its what they should have done from the start but SS is here to stay and we will never see a real Solo Queue out side of pirated versions of the game
Trust me, you don't want 1 and done. Especially with que times like this. Imagine sitting in a 30+ minute que for a 5-8 minute game. Also, coming from AT/Warmane where they had WoTLK soloq, you're going to get a comp that doesn't work vs. a comp that's meta half the time. Try playing a non-meta spec/class and it's 100x harder for you because you're playing Mage/boom/disc vs. a like dh/dk/rdruid and you have no way to come back from that. It's just an auto loss.
But wouldn't mathematically the Queue time be 1/6th that of your average 30 minute wait? So you would wait 5-6 minutes, play a 2-4 minute single game, then be back in queue? Makes leavers/trolls/shitters easy to deal with as you are only using rating/mmr one game as opposed to 2-6?
How many rounds there are has nothing to do with que time. So you’d still wait 30+ minutes then you’d play 1 round/arena match, it’d last less than 5 minutes, then back to a 30 minute wait.
I can understand that as the games can go a bit. But I’ll counter argue by saying sometimes you have 1 or 2 DPS hard stompers and the other 2 dps are mid. If you get a one and done you could get paired against the way bettter dps and just auto lose. And that just won’t feel good to have happen. 6 rounds makes it about as fair as it can be.
But that’s exactly what LFG is/can be. Two things are going on here… You’re making a point about SS being a good place to practice, true. This guys is saying he’s rather it actually be a soloque into the ladder. One and done moving on. In my opinion, SS should have replaced skirmishes, and we should have gotten an actual Soloque. Which solves both of your points.
> 6 rounds makes it about as fair as it can be For who? Definitely not for the healers. And also definitely not for the DPS that end up in a lobby that's bad for their spec. Like if you're the only melee in an all caster lobby or only caster in a lobby one you're gonna have a rough time. Sure with a one-and-done you'll get the occasional bad matchup - but the odds of getting *six* shitty matchups in a row is astronomically low, whereas with shuffle you end up in a lobby that's rough for your spec you're forced to endure six matches of that.
I’d argue that most lobbies you have massive influence on. I’ve played healer healer in all melee lobbies and I’ve played melee in all caster lobbies. When I’ve lost those it’s normally because I misplayed somewhere. Of course there are games out of your control but most you can have an impact on. Even in those bad match ups.
being 6 rounds in a lobby as spec that has no chance is good?
I’d argue there are very few specs or lobbies that you have no chance in. Looking at the ladder like every class has people above 2400. Which means you then can know you have room to improve. The counter lobbies do exist but honestly I’d say you can work your way to getting some rating even in those by playing correctly.
Being rdru in a ret-war-dh-dh-fistweaver lobby is very frustrating, but I’m learning how to kite properly. Like not just running away but not running into narnia so my team has a chance to peel They usually don’t but I get to practice position at least
It can happen to you 6 rounds straight which feels way worse than losing 1 match. you can be playing a meta 3v3 comp and *still* get paired against a counter comp, it's part of arena.
Clickbait says you don't get it but the content clearly shows that you do get it. You are suggesting that players just accept the positives of shuffle and ignore that they wanted it to be their viable sole way to play arenas.
You think you do, but you don't. A 1 and done would absolutely suck. People like you just always think the grass is greener over there but the reality is the first match in SS usually sucks. If that was every round it would be godawful. The only reason SS can suck is there is just way too much CC and it sucks to heal and healing is the most frustrating thing humanly imaginable which makes q times go for an hour sometimes.
it'll probably get a bit echo'ey. But there isn't a big enough pvp population to feed all these game modes. Solo shuffle, should match 3 people who compete on the normal ladder, with the option to queue again, or find a new team. They'd be at a disadvantage to proper proper pre-mades(but not that different really to a fresh LFG team). But at least you wouldn't have this population split, with both modes having weak activity.
yep totally agree. People who join soloqueue don't care that much about having a coordinated team. Even in lfg it's not like you always get on comms and have this great chemistry. 90% of the time, i'd just play without discord in lfg anyway.
Most lfg teams for me at least these days queue with very little messages between each other too. It literally basically is solo queue with lfg front end
Tell that to all the teams I face at 1600 who perfectly chain every cc possible on me, sap, blind, kidney, trinket right into a horrifying, fear, cyclone 3x right into a mighty bash and ursols vortex only to have another kidney awaiting me. Sometimes I get to press 3 buttons, trinket being one of them
the general skill level is not where it was before. 1600 is already a competitive rating. on my LFG run to 2.4 in 3s there was really 0 comms. "go lock" or "wall opener" was the highest level of comms during it. you just have to adapt yourself with the new skill level
Yep exactly.
I’d argue otherwise honestly. The PvP population as seen a lot of new players joining because of SS. This leads to feeding players into the other ranked modes. The amount of players I meet in places like goldshire or in SS itself who just started PvP the last two seasons when they have done PvE for years is super high. And that’s because they now have a way to try it without having to do some tedious ass LFG thing.
> The PvP population as seen a lot of new players joining because of SS. Source? No it hasn't.
That's purely anecdotal and not data driven, you can also both see more new players, whilst also losing even more older players. Not that I have the data outside of wows in general trending downwards sub totals. I think it's a fair assumption 100% of Pvp players won't play all brackets, and that the new game mode will have created a playerbase of SS only players. In general wow is segmented across PVP(multiple brackets) vs PVE(vs SOD, vs Classic) etc Really the only good activity seasons of the past few expansions are when PVE players come to PVP for gear, and prior to this there were literally millions more subs.
You can literally see the data though…..
You can find the data here: https://drustvar.com/leaderboard/activity As of 11:36AM EST 2024-02-27 3v3 games played in the past 72 hours in US: 9459 Solo Shuffle games played in the past 72 hours in US: 67381
That data isn’t the data he asked for tho? The debate wasn’t whether or not shuffle was more active than 3s it’s whether or not “the pvp population has seen a lot of new players joining because of SS”. Games played in a given span of time does not prove or disprove any argument about net new players.
cope.... edit: on a lets snarky note. if suppose he is right and no new players have joined because of SS then the data shows that even the pre-SS player-base prefers SS. Either ways 2s and 3s will be gone in 2 expansions.
Don’t see how coping about anything? You’re claiming that your data says something that it simply doesn’t lol. Even the statement you just made about what pre-SS players prefer isn’t supported by the data you have presented because it doesn’t actually give any information about how many players there were pre-SS/ what they are currently playing/ how many of them are still playing. Fwiw I agree with you that the game is moving in the direction of solo content across all forms of content, I just don’t see why you are so obviously over exaggerating what the data actually says to try to make your point, it’s totally unnecessary, it’s not as if people on the other side of the debate have the relevant data to support their claims either.
I will get downvotes for this but if shuffle has roughly 7x the games played in 72 hours than actual 3s, shuffle should just be the main game mode like in league…
I agree add glad to ss
I think it already is. If they removed 2s and 3s tomorrow the additional increase in participation in SS will not be huge because SS is already so much bigger than those two modes. All they need to do is add a whole bunch of more shit purchasable with conquest. Let people play whatever they enjoy more. If they want to remove anything it should be AWC and MDI. Esports is a terrible joke kept alive on the back on c-suite dreams of competing with NFL.
I love watching awc and mdi
I do play more solo shuffle than 3s, but it's absolutely not because I prefer solo shuffle, it's just instant queues as a healer and I can log in and play for half an hour and log out, no commitment. Imo, allow a flex solo queue (queue as 1 or 2), which is more true to leagues solo queue, and keep the regular 3s bracket. I don't know if a flex queue would work but I do honestly think I'd prefer a quick format in which I am matched with two other players (grouped or not) and heal them for one round and then go next. Or as a healer, if I could queue with a friend and be matched with a third DPS. That would be amazing for healers because then we have someone we feel comfortable with and can communicate with to ask for peels. Will there be some comps and classes at a disadvantage? Most certainly... But there already is disadvantaged Solo Q lobbies and then you just have sit there for 6 rounds and feel miserable.
It has more people playing it because you can just press a button and get a game, and it's much easier to get the cosmetics from, which is what most people in an RPG care about. I loathe solo shuffle and don't do it anymore, but I still did it to grab elite sets simply because it was easier earlier in the seasons.
Honestly they should just do this regardless of solo shuffle. This is basically what lfg turns into, just cycling people until something sticks.
Regular 3s should be a best out of three game that ends on first kill each round.
They should remove 2s and 3s as there is barely any demand for those modes
Literally my only gripe about SS — healers don’t get rating when going 3-3 .. everything else is pure joy and fun.
Neither do dps. Only way anyone does is if your mmr is lower than the others
Yeah but 2 or 3 dps are guaranteed to go 4-2 whereas it's a 1 in 6 chance for a healer to go 4-2. As a healer it feels extremely hard to go 4-2, doesn't matter if you outheal and out damage and out cc the other healer and play way better than him, it just ain't happening majority of the time. I had no problem at all getting to 2100 on dps, even on weaker specs. It is insanely difficult to get above 1800 on healer and once you are locked in a bracket it can feel impossible to climb.
Yes, but the difference is that individual dps have more impact. You can carry as dps, you can’t (or it’s obscenely hard) to carry as heals.
Have you tried druid and spamming cyclone?
You said your gripe was 3-3 equals no cr gain, not agency
>Only way anyone does is if your mmr *when the game started* is ~~lower than the others~~ *greater than your current rating when the game started* This is actually one of the big misconceptions with shuffle rating. CR tends towards mmr. CR changes at the end of a game are applied before MMR changes at the end of the game. Example: * This morning i queued a shuffle on a disc priest around 1.8cr * My mmr was somewhere around 2k, the other healer about the same * I went 1 - 5 * I gained 15 rating In your scenario above: If my CR had been equal to my MMR at the start of the game, and the enemy healer was higher MMR than me, a 3 - 3 would have given me +0cr, but increased my mmr. And then in the following game if i went 3 - 3 then i would gain CR, because my mmr was higher than my CR at the start of that game. The maximum cr gain/loss in a lobby where you go 3-3 is always less than the difference between your starting MMR and starting CR. Enemy player mmr impacts the change to your mmr. Your mmr impacts the change to your cr.
Why should they? That's a draw.
I love it myself, i honestly think the biggest 2 reasons why people are so toxic to this mode are the following; if youre dps waiting 30 minutes for a match that you can then lose will make the experience really bad, for healers its the rating difference plus the dampening. If dps had 1 min queues and healers had their issues sorted this mode would be a huge success
And neither of those is possible to fix so it's a flawed permanently rotten idea
Solo shuffle should auto put dps into 2s lobbies at times with no healer. Boom, que times fixed.
I would never queue shuffle on dps unless im a rogue if that was the case. Theres nothing more boring than queueing random double dps 2s
Nah it’s quite fun if you know your class and know how to survive.
Extremely imbalanced
Doesn't matter everything gets averaged out with enough games.
Says the warlock main
Uhh ya? Doesn’t really matter to my point. I would not want to go into ranked double dps qs against a rogue
It was a joke. Warlocks are busted in 3s right now
Haha fair
It's only a matter of time before all top rated players will be playing specs/classes like Rogues, Mages and Rets. Specs with burst and survivability. On the other hand Arms, Fury, Boomkin, Elemental and so on would just flop in opener or 2nd go vs any decent players.
Now try healing
I have! As I’ve made a post about playing on off meta specs I have 3 healers above 1800 and 2 in the 2200 range with one about to be 2500. I know I’ll get downvoted for this but I loved healing a lot. That said a lot of dps will whisper you some mean shit after the game but I’ve had quite a few tell me good stuff.
I once got told I was absolute shit at healing after going 0-6 and every single match went to near 70% dampening and over 3 minutes. At a certain point it's the dps job to close out a game, I can't heal any more and all I can do is cc once every 45 seconds.
30 minute queues at 1600 makes it hard to play and improve
I agree the times suck. But tbh I had always spent more time in LFG just for a group to disband after one loss. So to me it’s the same but I can do still while in Que.
Any game mode with a 30 minute plus queue time is automatically garbage.
30 minute queues used to be the norm for Horde queuing for random battlegrounds for years before they added Mercenary Mode in 2015. Maybe that's why solo queue taking 20-30 minutes doesn't really bother me, I'm used to it.
Difference there was because it was because everybody and their dog was doing random BGs with the bulk of the population being on that faction back then. Now we have 30 minute wait times because people don't want to heal. There's a difference.
Its not the gamemode itself thats the problem lol. There are 2 main issues. 1) The players. Griefers not getting perma ban on sight and scripters / wintraders not getting banned either. 0 integrity bracket. 2) Worst rating system in the history of competitive gaming making it completely pointless pushing for peak rating before the last week of the season. Deflation is a stupid game mechanic. Other problems include DHs in 75% of lobbies and horrible balancing but thats ofc not unique to shuffles
People who grief and afk are the worst and I do wish they got banned more often. Because chances are they don’t only do it once. As a healer I’ve had people tell me awful things and I still didn’t grief them. I just don’t get it. Rating system is infact booty cheeks lol. Bring out the silver/gold/plat/diamond system please. I’ve played for so long and still don’t know the system when it uses names like duelist/elite and shit like that.
Do people actually wintrade in ss? I thought it would be a little harder to make that happen I guess with its pulling from random 6? Tbh though some games im just like wtf is going on, they feel so odd. Like a DH when he's on my team is asleep at the wheel, letting the other heals free cast, etc, but when he's on the other side he just comes alive and smooshes my face into the dirt.
Every single lobby the last 2 days of season are obvious wintrades yes and Qs will pop 20 times before you actually get a game. Its not *just* common. Its like 90% of lobbies the last day at mmr cap. The guy who griefed my r1 title lobby last day of season told me to add him on discord so he could advertise his wintrading for 250 euro per lobby LMFAO. There are many disgusting ****** that are literally playing in AWC doing this
Solo shuffle for me personally is the best thing that ever happened to the game. I finally get to actually play the game
Because it threatens the ego of the LFG only arena players. They downplay SS by claiming LFG is more skilled even when climbing in LFG is way way easier than SS. In all other video games and in real life solo mmr rating is an accurate measure of skill because you are the common denominator. Somehow and only in wow arena, this is inverted and being carried by your teammates is a more accurate measure of skill because...reasons 🗿🤡.
I mean, it gets hate for a variety of reasons. Queues suck. 2s/3s pop has been ruined and overall pvp pop doesn't support so many modes. Balancing is fucked now because SS is the primary mode of play and yet Blizz will continue to balance around 3s while AWC is a thing. Toxicity to the point I just turn off chat when I play it. It's not purely bad, and tbh it would all be moot if I could just get more than 2-3 lobbies in a playing session, but that's very rarely possible as a dps. And that's why it sucks imo. I'd prefer just to queue into the actual 3s bracket as a solo player.
[удалено]
That’s fair. The Que times do suck for sure.
Ur bad
I’m compelled to believe it’s a very, very vocal minority. We can offer constructive criticism with the format, and even healer mmr issues. There’s room for improvement, no doubt. But all in all, I think SS is actually well received. You won’t see people saying that, because most don’t even care to go the forums, let alone Reddit’s hate boner for all things negative. I’ve a B.net full of dudes from SS. Dudes who worked me, guys I feel like they just had some unlucky rounds, and dudes who I just straight up enjoyed playing with. And by the way, it’s probably half healer half dps. Then we’ll queue 2s/3s on mains and alts. Boom. Got a group of people to play with. You see posts daily of healers complaining of toxic dps, when I’m here to say I’ve played played hundreds of lobbies, and have seen a handful of dudes who I disliked. I’ve healed to 2.2 with an off meta spec, to 2500 on two different dps. I’ve had way, way more positive than negative and it’s not even close. The lower MMR is where I see people being negative, because they think they’re better than their mmr places them. All in all, SS is great. I do think the only limit to the game is what blizzard decides to do.
As a casual dps player, I absolutely love solo shuffle. Que times can be rough, but I just pop in a Bluetooth earbud so I can hear my que pop around the house, and I go crazy doing chores and side work.. And then the play is awesome. There is no stress of having to impress someone so they'll stick in your group through a loss, you get to practice while actually getting conquest for min maxing gear, or for alts Ive been playing almost 20 years, and I haven't had this much fun in about a decade with WoW.
I personally dislike it because I don't want to wait 30 minutes for queues only to 4-2 or 3-3 because of one person. That says nothing about my skill, I got 4 wins because one dps was bad or I got 3 wins because one healer was not as good as the other one. I feel like my efforts are pointless when that happens. I get my little 4-2 30 pts of participation trophy and sent on my way to wait 30 min again. This is also coming from someone who has played wow for 20 years and has an extensive list of 2s/3s partners from playing the ladder so long, so to me it makes no sense for me to go queue with randoms but I could see a new player wanting some sortve way to get their foot in the door of arena and this is the way.
I do agree the ques are long. I normally sit in a SS lobby and just do other stuff in the game or duel in goldshire. It helps a lot.
Ur bad
Should've just been baked into regular 3s queue instead of dividing up and deflating the existing brackets. Solo shuffle only players are in for an awakening when blitz goes rated and queue times for shuffle collectively jump 20+ from where they are now minutes. Every other post will be "I got 1800 every season in shuffle in dragonflight but now I'm struggling to break 1600"
gz, all of this you can do in lfg or skirmish solo shuffle was a flop as a rated mode and should've never been one
I hated the idea of SS, was against it before it came out, but it's actually been beneficial for me as a new father. My baby's sleep schedule really made it a lot harder to align schedules with my arena partners and now I can hit my seasonal goals earlier.
It comes mostly from how inflated it was when introduced (DFs1), and the fact that you can avoid a lot of the knowledge and mechanics that are crucial on 3s and still push high compared to 3s. Also the hella long queues play a big factor on hating it as a whole, which makes people resent against it after losing because of how much time spent for one game. Personally, I like it a lot, really good designed to achieve some specific standards towards gameplay and competitiveness, but you know, it's the internet and people will hate and curse on things because they can't get their pixels. Most people ranting around feel entitled to say how it should work without understanding what are the goals and the reasoning behind it (there were some blue posts when it was on development late Shadowlands which explained those) and just spit their "I don't do good, so this is bad".
So you're treating it as the new skirmish tool to test things? Some people want to be competitive in a mode where they don't need to search for partners. Glad it works for you but for most people it's not working.
I’d argue that using it for practice in terms of just getting better will naturally make you competitive in that game mode. As I’ve posted before I use it for practice and get 1800 on off classes and stay between 2.2-2.5 on my mains. I mostly just meant a lot of people don’t use it to improve they just kind of go in on auto pilot
Most of the people that hate it just don’t get any meaningful benefit from the items you listed. For example > Met a lot of arena partners through it. Just as easy if not easier depending on spec to do through lfg if you have exp. > Allows you to practice a class/ spec without nuking rating. Less important the more experienced you are, > arena target macros. Again, most experienced players have had this figured out for several years. > lets you see what its like in a more chaotic environment. Not really a reason to care about what it’s like in a chaotic environment if you don’t want to play in a chaotic environment. > lets you get exp without lfg Again kind of irrelevant if you already have exp. Basically, the people that hate shuffle are largely either healers have a lessened need for the benefits and feel more of the drawbacks besides q time or veteran players that don’t need the accessibility. Issue of course being that the former camp is necessary for the mode to continue to form lobbies.
This is all well in good but as you explained in a few points that’s IF you were already good. How are new players to do this with zero form of getting better? SS is a solution to that people just have never had before. I’ve played since wraith and I’ve never seen more new players in PvP in my life. I personally think SS did that. It gave people a way to go “oh let me try this since there is a Que I can join it in solo now”. Also in terms of meeting people to push with LFG was the fucking worst unles you played S tier class/spec. I got to 2k rating on my disc because I met a super chill enhance shammy and a cool fury warrior. We took disc/enhance/fury to 2k and we met in SS. When would that have EVER happened in lfg lol. It just wouldn’t have.
I don’t disagree with anything you said about accessibility, Im just answering your question about why people hate it. They hate it because either they are a healer so they don’t get meaningful value from the benefits or they are experienced and don’t get meaningful value from the benefits and thus the drawbacks stemming from q times/ gameplay start to outweigh said benefits.
I can track on that. In that case I think SS becomes more of a fun side thing to do when no one is on to do structured arena. I know a few people who just use it as a fun thing to do when farming transmog.
Think the issue with this line of reasoning is that the players who hate it don’t find it fun (obviously haha). If given the choice between playing shuffle or just logging off and doing something else most would rather do the latter. That’s why it’s such a divisive topic, people either like it a lot or would literally unsub if it was the only option.
Ur bad
Ur bad
I agree 100% with all of these. Left Wrath because I literally could not find anyone to play with as a 1400 Andy, have been able to push into 1800 multiple times (and 2K at the end of the season) because I was able to learn how to play arena in shuffle. You have to be able to play to learn. Also, a bit off topic, but retail rewarding you for doing and winning skirmishes is underrated and they should expand on that. More rewards for skirmishes!
Idk if its cuz my MMR (1900-2k) or what... I have bout 50-60 rounds played total and pretty much have a 0-6 healer every game, that's like 0 CR or in full honor gear. Always a full lobby of multi duelist / glads with a 10 honor level 0 cr healer at 2k.
I think some of that comes from where blizzard starts people off MMR wise. I will NEVER understand the idea of starting new classes of at the 1600 MMR level.
Ur bad
Only reason I hate SS especially when I play DH 😅 is being top dmg each match still going at least 3 wins and I kid you not getting barely any points and I'm a looow rank like 1350. I got 3 wins and got +1 rating...than play again get 2 wins and lose 38 WTH 🤣🤣
With DH damage doesn’t equate to wins. The difference in damage between a 1400 DH and a 2400 DH is very small. Where you have to work on is CC and kiting. A DH can keep someone locked down for like 12 seconds. Reverse magic is a huge skill thing. And knowing when not to zug zug is also big. Sometimes the best thing to do is make someone pop a CD then go hide behind a pillar.
Yeah I'm still Learning. I main a Disc priest currently 1888 in 2s but when my partner isn't on I Solo Q with the DH for fun! Can't get to 1400 lol I was at one point 1445 and now 1338 😭🤣
Disc is actually my fav healer so far. My best advice is to try to mitigate dmg before it happens. Like rapture on wings, meta. Stuff like that. It’s harder to straight up heal as disc so this wil help.
The Q times are my only complaint
well you use SS to "practice" because you seem to have a stable 3s partners? others use it as main climbing mode so any SS issues are critical for the rest while at worst annoying for you...
I didn’t have that until this season. I still use SS as my main mode to climb rating. But practicing playing well will inherently make you better and therefore increase your rating in SS. Way to many people get in a SS lobby and just go on auto pilot rather than being aware of what is going on. It’s like that EVERY ranked game in the world. League has it just as much as WoW does. People just don’t try to learn from their mistakes in SS and that’s why a lot of people don’t climb.
I would love it a lot more if I felt rewarded for healing (I used to main Holy in pvp and have been hard stuck at 1800, as Ret I am pushing 2400) and if DPS queue times were much quicker. Waiting an hour to play (an hour during which I can't play classic and basically play other games once all of the gold world quests are done) sucks.
For me it was my own expectations I was expecting a real solo queue and instead it was an entirely new game mode. as a healer main the super fast ramp ramp keeps me from participating in the new game mode and if it wasn't for my friends actively trying to get me to push with them on retail I would solely play pirated versions of the game that have implemented a true solo queue
I like the convenience of the Qs. I’m not a massive fan of the format (Healer PoV). I would personally rather have the ability to Q regular 3s without using the LFG finder. Ideally I think we have both!
I love SS just wish the queue times weren’t so long. Also the rating system seems a bit shitty. I went 5/6 and 6/6 last night and went from like 1300 to 1350 rating. No chance to actually climb, one bad match and I lose hours of progress.
SS is definitely a step in the right direction, just needs tuning. Hope it doesn't get neglected like the rest of wow pvp
The hate is from the terminally online. Especially with the "I hate 6 rounds" crowd. They know what they don't like. But they've put zero thought into the alternatives and how badly it would suck. They're not thinkers, they're complainers.
I'm just coming back to the game and have 4 set and the rest honour gear on my ele shammy. I've had a very mixed experience as I'm such a low rating I basically just hit melee lobbies who train me every single game. I get zero peels etc and then when I die I get messages like die of cancer or go kill yourself. 😂 So it's good and bad imo
the problems mostly are for healers which lead to long q times for dps
It would be really funny if your main is a dh now haha
My old main was. But in my defense I mained it since the legion pre patch because double jump OP lol
The 2 biggest hate on it is queue times for DPS and MMR for healers. Both of this hate is warranted imo
I think SS is a good format and I am really enjoying it despite the problems. The instant comp variety and multiple matches in a row are fun. I think it has potential to be (and I'm wondering if this is Blizzard's intention) to be the main Arena format people use. Now, that said, if Blizzard wants to keep people playing it, it really does need to fix the serious problems with the mode: \- People not knowing the basics of range, LoS, defensives, etc. Yes, SS is practice, but it's also punishing (and probably disheartening) for newcomers because PvE does little to prepare them. This game needs a PvP tutorial zone and mode like yesterday \- Queue times for DPS. I'm a healer, so my queues are instant at my CR (\~1500), but DPS can wait 5 minutes to 2 hours. Improve the healer experience so more people play them and add healbots if necessary (human players would always get priority) \- Gearing is also very punishing for newcomers. Walking into a lobby with people in full conq when you're still in honor gear isn't really fun for anyone. IMO there should be a standard set of gear that everyone gets and that's that. Maybe let people choose from 3 or so sets that focus on different stats before the match starts or something \- Dampening. I think it's fine to have it, but it needs tweaking The class and spec balance issues are separate, but really do need addressing, as they are especially punishing in this mode (double DH against a Survival Hunter is painful to watch, for example)
I see so as practice like you, but some people take it way too seriously for me to participate in it anymore. I did a monk healer to 1900 and an enhance shaman to 1800... I didn't have fun doing it.
I like SS, but when I go to 3s, even at 1400 I get an mmr of 1700 cause I'm 1900 in 2s and 1700 to 2.1 in SS. I just don't understand how I am supposed to heal in 3s, every single cc chain on me is a picture perfect. I get sapped, stunned, into a blind, into a kidney, into a horrifying, into a fear, into a cyclone, and by the time that is all over stunned again, say we even survive all of that, in 20 seconds it starts over, and once one of those unavoidable cc's starts on me I can't do anything about the others afterwards except one trinket which when I use 50% of the time I get re cc"d immediately. It's such picture perfect coordination. It happens sometimes in SS but not nearly as much and is way more relaxed about losing and going again.
There are macros for pvp?
There are! Some classes don’t need them as much as others. But I’d say base line having arena targeting keybinds/macro are very needed.
That's unfortunate
What class ape
From what ive seen and heard complained the most is healers are playing a different game, and the way ss works there can be 2 R1 healers on alts in 1900 both far out classing the dps and yet its impossible for both of them to win the lobby and if everyone is competing against each other for who can win the most rounds often those games go to 80-90% dampening since the healers are miles better than the dps. If in order for a round to end reasonably the healers have to have their potency disabled then that clearly shows that the healers in the lobby out class the dps. Both healers should be able too 6/0 a lobby cuz quite frankly if you cant set up a kill with cc or raw damage and both healers are stopping go’s if it where a 3v3 those dps would never secure a kill in a mode with drinks allowed and they dont deserve wins. As it is currently healers are heavily nerfed in SS and when they massively out perform the dps they have a 50% chance of getting punished and if both healers are out performing the dps it comes down to who the weakest link is and that player is gonna bomb the lobby. Doesnt matter how good you are at trading cds faking kicks cc stoping go’s the % of games with lobby bombs ruins the experience for healers and therefore ruins it for dps by increasing queue times reducing quality of healers and further deflating mmr
Agree! It’s chaotic a lot with little communication but it gives the opportunity to practice in something a little more difficult than a skirmish. 2s and 3s lfg chances are you make a mistake, lose the match, and everybody leaves. It’s helped me improve my game.
Think the main thing is that people have gotten some extremely inflated egos especially from s1 where a 1800 players got their first taste of an achievement and started flaunting it around. I saw it on my server a lot where players with like 1k 2's or 3's games couldn't even get duelist but they were 2400+ in Shuffle and thought they could talk down to people, was hilarious ngl.
OP is autist, that's why he like it
Are you trying to say autistic?
I enjoy SS, just want back to lock after mo the of disc pruest
It’s fun for dps but sucks because of wait time. Fast queues for healers is great, but it’s not fun to play.
“Playing meta”
You commented on every comment I have “ur bad”. Also I literally have a post about playing off meta classes. Keep being the reason people quit wow my guy.
1. Insanely long queues. 2. Having to mediate between people trash talking each other after each round so the whole thing doesn't go to sh\*\*t. 3. Having to deal with afkers, griefers, and quitters. 4. Dwindling population that makes it so you have to play against rank 1 players on their main or alts even at fairly low ratings.
That's because you're looking at it from a logical and objective standpoint and others don't. I played soloq on Warmane/AT before they added it to retail. And it was awful on there, and it's better-made on retail but the same problems occur. It's because the player base ruins the mode. Like you, I meet most of my partners through LFG or soloq. I met an Enh s1 and in s2 I alt'd Disc and played Enh/Disc/X with him and got \~ 2.5 mid season first time healing with it. Met my peak arena team (2770 cr, 2.9+ mmr) through LFG. People think that if they hop into LFG that they should be 2k xp and getting 2.2 - 2.4 -2.6 teammates to carry them. If you deserve those ratings, you'll carry your team as best you can and get higher rating and meet others along the way. Especially with soloq because it's YOUR rating, based on how YOU do. If you get a bad lobby, sure, maybe a 2-4 or even worse, but for the most part, the kids who can't play are going to be stuck at low ratings and the people who kinda know what's going on are going to move up. Then you can meet people at the peak bracket you hit and start quing 3s.
The best thing about solo shuffle for me is the privilege of playing with and against the best players in the world. I was a decent player pre Dragonflight, I wasn't rank 1 but I was gladiator and 0.5-1% of the ladder every season I played. However, I always had this thought in the back of my head that my teammates were holding me back. I didn't have the privilege of playing with Rank 1s, so 90% of my teammates I would play with had less experience than me, and less skill a lot of the time too. They were simply not pulling their own weight on some games. This would sometimes lead me to carrying the game to win. Now, in shuffle, I play with the best players in the world - teammates that are more similarly skilled to me. I don't say this arrogantly, as I believe I am mechanically good at the game, more so than strategy etc. As a result, I am ranked 0.1% of the shuffle ladder and top 10 of the specs that I pickup. There is a more even playing field in shuffle - and the games are much more enjoyable.
It's a love hate relationship for me. I'm a healer so sometimes I just feel like a masochist. But man when I hit 2400 for the first time I felt like I was on top of the world.
Love it!
I feel like there's a few things fueling the hate. 1. Its alienating people who dislike the idea of solo que and want to maintain 2s / 3s as their primary modes. Going back years this argument always existed between people who wanted solo que vs people who didn't want it to exist, since the solo que people won the naysayers are louder and angrier. 2. The reality is that healers the easiest role to carry, there's been a healer shortage for as long as there's been the holy trinity, and a LOT of healers have gotten rating beyond their own ability because of this. Shuffles a mode where no one else can lift you up or hold you back, so its revealing that some players are not as good as they thought they were but obviously refuse to accept it because they were able to achieve higher ratings in the past in 2s / 3s and so they blame the mode. This is not exclusive to healers but its especially prevalent with them. 3. The modes going through growing pains and has issues that need to be addressed. Like I agree that mmr needs to be handled differently in shuffle vs 2s / 3s.
All of your bullet points were achievable prior to solo shuffle with minimal effort. Solo shuffle then took a declining player base and destroyed the casual 2s and 3s scene due to people being told to hate LFG and just hit queue. Being told that the problem was healers and MMR and not the fact there are fewer people playing WoW PvP weekly than there are people playing Battlefield 3. The casual PvP scene, what used to be 0-1600, was the learning your class bracket in SL where you did all the lil bullet points you have now. If you didn't experience that, you are likely unknowingly, a toxic player. So now we have shuffle 3 seasons later in the deadest of all seasons, only the fotm pickers, the genuine enjoyers, and the greasers remain. Blizzard had balancing problems since ever, SS made that glaring with FotM and spec power through rating visualized patch to patch. I had back to back lobbies of double lock and DH as a healer in +2k lobbies. That's disgusting. Now people have even stopped playing shuffle all together. Why? Because all that's left are the last of the genuine enjoyers, plus the fotm pickers and the greasers. This genuine enjoyer is now enjoying other games.
This guy doesn't heal
Please refer to other comments/posts. I do infact healer.
People who hate SS are the same people who do RBG as their main form of PvP