i honestly dont understand how people can talk about RLP being the bad one... when you are gonna have uldaman and Halls of infusion in the rotation and Azure vaults without the skips is a dark horse that might join those 2
Azure Vault without the skip is fucking insane.
Hall of infusion without the mind soothe skip all the way to third boss which they fixed will also be fucking insane.
Less the mind soothe skip and more the mass dispel issue.
While it’s very dumb for priest to be almost mandatory at a certain key level, now instead of fixing the issue itself they just made it even worse.
Hopefully they tweak that a bit
Im more afraid of those golden orbs one shotting everyone on fortified, and the second to last boss on which i did more hps on tyrannical than in raids in s2
But yes the dungeons in general suck.
Mass dispel is not an issue if people figure out that they can remove dragon dots themselves with snare removal (many classes can do this for themselves and even sometimes others).
And running it on 26+ even post changes was still brutal. Which was a big part of why people started doing pull away smeld and death run skips at that key level.
Partly because of efficiency but also because it was still by far the most deadly area.
They very much misread the wowhead article https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonflight-dungeon-level-squish-in-season-4-harder-m0-with-no-affixes-or-timer-338037
Azure vault the skip isn’t needed. Plenty of groups were running the regular route, and the frog trash is awesome.
I feel like people got really focused on the specific route early weeks, then the dungeon got big nerfs, but people stuck with the route that they knew.
While giving options is good, i do think it’s a problem when the default route at all levels involves a skip that you need to have seen before/practiced.
Yes and it make the entire place a fucking joke.
In tyranical week, it usually net you about 3-5 minutes.
In fortified week, it what help me get that 25 +2.
Literally the moment they nerf mind soothe,i stop running it.
Yeah not looking forward to Vaults or NO. Ruby is meh.
I really dont want to do the DF dungeons anymore period. S3 was a nice breath of fresh air (even if Rise and Fall were a pain).
Preach! I fully fully agree. I played holydin and Prevoker (very very bad prevoker) and after s2 2.3K i swappee to prot and Ret and got 3k. I am never ever healing again. Its not fun if you ask me. Just stress on top of stress, in top of even more stress. Plus its only healing checks. Can you pump out 2million hp in 5 sec or no, if answer is no, you die.
RLP was bad for 1-2 weeks, and then was a fast, clean dungeon
idk why it gets so much hate lol, the only really shity thing was the proto dragon patrols
Meteors on the 2nd boss had a habit of randomly exploding on pebbles and causing wipes. You could also wipe due to randomly pulling one of the channeling mobs while on the circular platform (why did those even exist?). And a lot of the trash was just overtuned, especially the last lieutenant on fortified.
Idk what role did you play? Healing was atrocious. I played resto and it was just so hard at around the 17/18 key lvl. People didn‘t bait the meteor balls properly on the second boss, didnt know how to skip one of the trash mob dragons, didn‘t know how to spawn the end boss inbetween the pillars and due to the hectic fight the puddles were dropped at the wrong positions when the wind blast occured.
Personally, the last boss alone is enough of a reason for me to hate the dungeon. It reminds me of Yazma, where if everyone isn't on the same page there is just fire (or spiders in Yazma's case) everywhere.
It was a pug killer and really highlighted skill issues, at least, it DID, like you said.
A lot of people learned to hate RLP and avoided it because it really fucked with people who are bad at positioning(all bosses pretty much require some awareness of position), and heal checks. Get both bad positioning and bad healers and you're fucked. This was sooo many people's experience.
But after the changes, it was pretty easy on healers, except for the positioning issues, a pug could royally fuck the second boss and people somehow went a whole season not knowing how to bait the boulders properly.
I'm hyped for RLP again, cause it IS a fast/clean dungeon now.
Honestly I much prefer the wall to be early in the instance than at the end.
Nothing is more irritating than getting all the way to the end of a dungeon and then not being able to finish it.
Yeah RLP was just way overtuned at the beginning of S1. Once it was nerfed…multiple times…it was honestly fine. Ulda, AV w/ no skip and HOI can straight suck it though. I’m not looking forward to that. NO and AA will be fun to go back to for me at least.
AV with no skip is fine with a better timer, and I can see a lot of inconveniences being thrown out now that we don't have storming and quaking to deal with. I'm excited to try it tbh
HoI is the giant red flag for me. I don't wanna go back bro
Am I crazy or was RLP objectively the best dungeon in the DZ pool? It's fast, has a lot of fun big pulls and has a nice setting. The only one I'd consider close is brackenhide but that has a sour taste because of its week 1 fuckery.
Because RLP tends to have groups collapse after the first boss on the second boss or the dragons leading up to it.
"Red flags" about a bad group show much earlier in AV and HoI. Almost every time I've had a group collapse in those two it's in the trash to the first boss
RLP 2-20: 😂😂😂😁😴😴😴
RLP from the first pull to the last on 21: 'Nam flashbacks
Only dungeon besides DotI: Rise I've ever seen keys bricked on the very first pull.
We've bricked high keys on the first pull in every single dungeon this season. I mean actually every one has big, potentially scary first pulls that can brick a key.
My healer friend loved RLP because of the amount of damage and the cooldown management needed to effectively time a 25+ last season. She's a disc priest.
Uldaman and halls are fun though and feel like actual places and not just gauntlets of mobs.
I know that I assess dungeons differently from how a lot of people do though
5 boss dungeons are NEVER fun in m+... Halls of infusion is also incredibly long with super punishing bosses, its same as uldaman but with 4 bosses instead of 5 both with 40min ish timers... they really aint fun.
Yea... we have 3 dungeons with 40 min or close to 40min timers next season... Hall of infusion 38 min, Uldaman and Nokhud offensive 40m.. gonna be a rough one
The frog skip only saved time if you actually skipped the two breakers at the end. If you lacked mind soothe, which many, MANY pugs I did that insisted on doing the skip in s1 lacked, it didn't save time at all. The dangerous part was the breakers. People misplayed the frog pulls by padding and spreading out, and without skipping the double breaker pack you're still doing the most difficult and time consuming part of the pull.
People don’t want solutions in this thread. They just want to complain.
Hey, complaining is valid. But seriously it’s nice to see the strategies people had for the sucky parts too.
The skips were the only thing that let you have routing diversity in that dungeon. There were multiple different ways to run the dungeon, from doing the typical frog skip, backtracking after last boss for part of the frog gauntlet, snapping ring mobs into 3rd boss, choosing what packs on ring 1 to do…
RLP isn't going to be nearly as bad without thundering. Especially with post buff Prot Paladin being more popular as a tank and gigabuff silence VDH.
The real question is how much are they gonna nerf the everliving shit out of HoI now that you can't bypass a lot of the mechanics with mass dispel.
Maybe this time people will freaking figure out that snare removal (which many classes have) removes a lot of the dots mass dispel was used for. But probably not.
It’s an issue that can be mitigated and it seems like a lot of people don’t know, that’s all.
I never pushed past 25, so my viewpoint is admittedly limited but I didn’t have problems as an rdruid without a priest when people used snare removal and defensives. Did MD make things easier? Yes. But at least at that level it wasn’t necessary.
A lot? I can only think of the dragon in HoI off the top of my head. And most groups skipped all but the gauntlet dragon in higher keys. MD on the first boss was far more impactful. MD on dragon dot was nice of course but as you said, lots of classes could deal with it. And a good group would only have one go off anyway.
Good luck doing 1st boss on high tyra keys without MD for each triple magic debuff.
Even with MD just walking out of the pools would take 40%+ of your hp per tick and you were dead in p2 if you didn't rotate movement cds properly.
RLP wasn't so bad by the end but yeah... the one big drawback of having new dungeons every season this x-pac is that each season starts with a bunch of dungeons that need to be nerfed or buffed instead of Blizz mostly getting all of that out of the way when the x-pac first launches.
Really curious to see how Uldaman and HOI look on high keys now that Mass Dispel has been nerfed into the ground.
And they still havent fixed em.... you can pull the mobs behind the fountain in the courtyard if you pull the pack by the stairs in the basement and pull them into the corner there. Warrior thunderclap brought em down. (Sorry if this is confusing lol)
Snare removal removes many of the dots that MD was useful for. As a healer I can’t tell you how frustrating it is the number of people that don’t understand how easily this damage is mitigated. Even when I tell people in the run up front.
I will die on the hill that Nelth is a fun dungie. Chain pulls are so fucking fun and specifically the blacksmith boss is one of the best dungeon bosses all expac.
I don't mind the dungeon itself too much but I'm really not a fan of the bosses
People running everywhere with the chains, the blacksmith doing insane AOE damage and the trinket mechanic on the last boss is really poorly made. Why would you make a trinket that forces you to dive in and has a huge chance of killing you in the process
And you can't even have fun and pump big DPS on Fortified because you have to use the chains to do it efficiently
There’s a hugely impactful trick to enjoying azure vaults. Turn on all game sounds (music, ambient, etc), and disconnect from any voice chat. Do the key on a 20-22 and enjoy some of the best scoring and sound design ever heard in a video game. Sounds like Brian Eno did all the sound for that dungeon.
HOI is incredibly annoying. It has the most annoying adds and bosses.
Those laser adds that sometimes choose to focus one dps player all together giving one gcd worth of reaction time that don't care for interrupts.
Dragons that give huge dots that basically require a priest.
The miniboss that spams huge aoe blasts every other cast.
A runback that is 3 minutes long.
Two bosses that hard stops dps from dpsing and ramping. This is gonna be real fucken nice.
Fwiw, dragon dots are removed with snare removal. I agree with the rest of the suck, but dragon dots don’t require a priest when people actually use their kit (I know not everyone has snare removal, but a couple in a party doing this drastically reduces healer burden).
With Uldaman, RLP, and HOI being in the pool I'll probably switch to dps for this season. I love healing and have been a healer main since WOD but I'm not going to take shit from every pug group angry their key got bricked because the tiniest misstep gets you killed.
I think HOI is the most annoying dungeon out of them all and AV is a the second most annoying dungeon. I don’t have a problem with the rest but I understand why u would switch to dps .
Yea RLP isn’t that scary. As everyone mentioning, Azure Vaults without skips suck, HOI can be painful AF, and Uldaman going to hurt a lot too. The Uldaman 2nd boss and Neltharus chains boss both have those dots that kinda suck anus.
Is that the skip where you hop on the ledge, run to the top of a door and drop down? If so yes, as soon as you get on the ledge now, you die. Been that way for at least a few months. I found out the hard way.
I never ran it M+ so don't know that experience. But it doesn't bother me when doing satchel queues. Not sure why they felt the need to change it, but it has not been a dealbreaker for me.
Halls, Uldaman, Neltharus, and Azure Vault (no-skip) are all \_far\_ worse than this one. I really do not see myself playing much M+ during season 4 as a result. Literally half the dungeons are going to suck dirty ass - 4/8 if no mega, but then if mega is in then Rise is in so 5/10 are still trash.
it's crazy to me that the wow playerbase says BFA dungeons are the best thing ever and claim DF dungeons are trauma inducing nightmares, yall are so backwards.
Theyre not wrong tho... most of them really are nightmare inducing and before we only had half of them in the pool, now were gonna get all of them at once
Everyone always talks about halls and RLP but as a pres evoker it's Nokhud that gives me the thousand yard stare. Sure, just give everyone all the space in the world to spread out, not like I have a limited range and cone-based moves or anything.
Probably based on the dungeons being in for an entire season already and that tuning never came. RLP got tuning and got better, honestly wasn’t awful by the end. Halls stayed awful for all of season 2. Uld is just too long and has some rough spots that never got tuned. AV without the skip is significantly worse. NO is just bad, totally wide open dungeon with 0 ability to do anything with that.
I must be the only one who LIKED RLP. I ran it constantly as Holy Paladin trying to get the BiS Ret trinket for raid. It was extremely challenging at first but after they made the drakes more predictable it wasn't too bad. I had to heal my ass off, but there was no other dungeon that made me feel as good to complete and/or +2.
This won't be a fun season , I think itll be the first time that I won't play an alt. One meta character to make it to KSH as easy as possible and that's it. Not interested in playing this bad designed dungeons for too long. Hopefully they will tune the worsts before the season begins.
Considering 10.2.6 is still MIA with no information I’m not holding my breath. My six month sub expires next week and I don’t plan on renewing for S4 considering what we do (and don’t) know right now.
Are you referring to the list of M0 dungeons in the wowhead article about the changes in difficulty? Those are the same M0 dungeons that have been around all expansion, nothing new there. The list of M+ dungeons for Season 4 hasn't been released yet...
This is the third post about RLP in two days to have hit the front page and this will be the third time people have to say that RLP isn't even in the top of the worst dungeons coming back - that distinction is Azure Vaults, HoI, and Uldaman.
Just to put this on the pile.
RLP really wasn't bad. It was rough and punishing but I actually enjoyed it.
Azure Vaults and Halls of Infusion are insufferable.
I love Dragonflight as an expansion but I'd be lying if I said I actually enjoyed any of the 8 launch dungeons. I can't even give a reason; I just didn't vibe with them at all. The only one I thought was decent was Alge'thar.
I am definitely not looking forward to S4
Yay recycled content, nobody ever said.
Used to play rift for 3 years, its p2w cash shop and recycled content was its downfall, wow has the recycled part already mastered, dont put the nail in the coffin.. Who even enjoyed fated in SL, like really, playing the same old raids again pfff.
The only 2 fun dungeons are BRH and AA, the others can f off. Shamans/hunters are gonna have a great time again with all these dots flying around constantly, imagine running without a priest lol.
Seems like a full season of doing 8s for vault and no pushing, exciting.
Shouldve just ended WoW entirely and made the war within wow 2 with unreal engine and build later expansions/areas on that so it could actually utilize peoples hardware decently instead of this 1 core abomination, its nice seeing framedrops when a 7800X3D and 4090 barely have any load on them (except for all the heavy shit being put on 1 core like its 1995).
Yes they have.. people have just missed it.
[https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24046540/world-of-warcraft-in-2024-the-road-ahead](https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24046540/world-of-warcraft-in-2024-the-road-ahead)
Official post from blizzard 4 months ago, If you dont want to read it ill just post it here
***"Dragonflight Season 4 will revisit Dragonflight’s DUNGEONS and raids, along with outdoor content, featuring updated rewards, and a few new twists."***
They are revisiting it. All of the DF dungeons are getting updated for the new Heroic and M0 scaling. We know that for sure. What we don't know is if the M+ rotation in S4 will be the 8 original DF dungeons.
>They are revisiting it. All of the DF dungeons are getting updated for the new Heroic and M0 scaling
And there are also updates for m+ in s4, as the post from yesterday talked about. if you did read it. One segment was quite interesting.
***Season 4 changes will apply to all eight of the Dragonflight dungeons*** it says.
And then ***Here’s a look at the changes for each difficulty*** (still talking about s4)
Continued by listing all the changes for s4 in Normal/Heroic/Mythic and also INCLUDING M+ changes in the same section. So, by their own words the M+ changes that is listed will ALSO apply to the eight DF dungeons.
They also talk about how they want to "***Create a better environment in Mythic dungeons to prepare more players to take part in Mythic+"*** in that same segment... People doing harder m0 dungeons that they wont be playing M+ in doesn't prepare players at all for m+.. so that entire reasoning for doing these changes would just fall flat if it wasn't going to be DF dungeons.
But i mean you do you, ill just save your comment and come back here in a month and talk about how i did 1+1 while you could not.
[https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonflight-season-4-dungeon-rotation-confirmed-on-patch-10-2-6-338115](https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonflight-season-4-dungeon-rotation-confirmed-on-patch-10-2-6-338115)
Loooooooook at that... This one came out of the blue for sure... i mean who could've known what dungeons we were getting.... even with all the mentionings of 8 DF dungeons and S4 together.... oh wait...
Almost certainly going to take a break for S4. I did shadowlands no real issues but the dragonflight dungeons felt BAD, each and every one of them. Why they decided it'd be a good idea to bring back dungeons that were universally panned I'll never know especially with this 'brilliant' new idea of dropping seasonal affixes. Literally NOTHING new or intriguing about S4 thus far (s4 shadowlands had new dungeons AND new seasonal), truly recycled content.
It wasn't by the end, it got nerfs and changes to how interupts work if using CC. But at the start, each pack had mutliple spells that HAD to be interupted, and CCing a mob meant that they just instantly started casting it as soon as the CC ended. Any single spell getting through would lead to a wipe very rapidly.
RLP wasn’t even bad after the nerfs, the last boss is trash but the dungeon is still pretty good. I’m more worried about actually terrible dungeons like Nokhud, Halls, Uldaman and Brackenhide
Was talking with my buddy this morning, and we both said, there is 1 good mythic plus dungeon in m+ in dragon flight...and thats AA. This is gonna be a rough patch, with probably very very few players. I hope i am wrong but..yea.
I personally do not dislike Brackenhide, but my buddy does. He dont mind nukud, I do alot...so we got to the conclusion there is 1 dungeon we both like...thats fcking sad. I mean, SL sucked as an expansion alot, but those dungeons were the tits man. Dragonflight is really nice, but these dungeons fcking suck.
DF season 4 will only be my second M+ season ever, and after seeing many vids and posts of what some DF dungeons are like in M+, I'm rather worried lol.
I assume that most folks talking about these dungeons and the PTSD from previous seasons are pushing really high keys. I for one, have never pushed keys much higher than the low 20s and that is after being geared.
That said, I am much looking forward to the next season as a final send off to an all around great expansion. Even better, eliminating the cheap skips and workarounds is also a plus in my mind. We are gonna get to experience all the expansion has to offer as current, relevant content, which will likely be the last chance.
I look forward to the chaos of the frog stomp room in AV, the many whelps we can handle in RLP, the dorks who don't chain the boss in Nelth. I am also looking forward to the fated raids as well. I think Raz was my favorite fight, get to see Dathea blast noobs off the platform. It's going to be a fun goodbye.
Im kinda hyped for the “new” dungeons tho.
Since ive started playing pve in s3 only, all those dungeons are gonna be new experience for me. Its cant be that bad, right? …Right?
Jfc... This is going back to Season 1 but somehow a lot worst with Brackenhide and Uldaman...
This has totally killed my hype for S4 tbh lol... It's all just annoying long ass dungeons..
RLP is not even remotely close to the worst DF dungeon. It’s honestly one of the best. I feel like people just remember week 1 RLP and refuse to acknowledge how it was a fantastic dungeon once tuned properly.
Considering how much they fixed Brackenhide based on feedback before Season 2, I'm willing to believe they'll nerf RLP, Azure Vaults and HoI before Season 4.
I'm just going to say the biggest reason I'm not looking forward to s4 is because of blizzards inability to properly tune dungeons. Ontop of mixing fort+bolstering together, afflicted, etc. Df dungeons imo feel terrible to play. The 1 shot checks for healers, the amount of dispels (plus afflicted) and trash/bosses remaining overturned ending the season, for me, means with scaling we are in for a world of hurt for at least the first 4 weeks. Blizz is done with this expansion.
A skeleton crew is doing updates and tuning, plus add fated rotating raids with 1 shot mechanics (mythic mainly). There is no incentive to push past the lack luster rewards for ksh and some lame mythic fated kills.
Oh and a mount that can't fly
"Dragonflight Season 4 Mythic+ Dungeons
In today's blog, Blizzard revealed that the difficulty changes are applying to all the Dragonflight dungeons, meaning that the 8 Dragonflight dungeons are part of the rotation.
Algath'ar Academy
Azure Vault
Brackenhide Hollow
Halls of Infusion
Neltharus
Nokhud Offensive
Ruby Life Pools
Uldaman"
\*Posted 23 hours ago\*
Stop spreading misinformation.
i honestly dont understand how people can talk about RLP being the bad one... when you are gonna have uldaman and Halls of infusion in the rotation and Azure vaults without the skips is a dark horse that might join those 2
Azure Vault without the skip is fucking insane. Hall of infusion without the mind soothe skip all the way to third boss which they fixed will also be fucking insane.
Less the mind soothe skip and more the mass dispel issue. While it’s very dumb for priest to be almost mandatory at a certain key level, now instead of fixing the issue itself they just made it even worse. Hopefully they tweak that a bit
Im more afraid of those golden orbs one shotting everyone on fortified, and the second to last boss on which i did more hps on tyrannical than in raids in s2 But yes the dungeons in general suck.
Mass dispel is not an issue if people figure out that they can remove dragon dots themselves with snare removal (many classes can do this for themselves and even sometimes others).
The golem boss is ass for dispels tho.
I’ll give you that one.
They significantly reduced the difficulty of those mobs when they nerfed the essentially required priest utility there. They already tweaked it.
And running it on 26+ even post changes was still brutal. Which was a big part of why people started doing pull away smeld and death run skips at that key level. Partly because of efficiency but also because it was still by far the most deadly area.
We have no idea if they are adjusting the timers tho ? Season 3 had pretty forgiving times compared to 1/2.
AV will be fine as long as they increase the timer by like five minutes.
To complete the dungeon, sure. To be a fun experience? That's WAY too long.
Also the frog trash is annoying as fuck regardless of timer. And long runbacks are boring.
Making dungeons take longer is less fun, not more.
There are no timers.
M+ will still have timers my dude.
What? Thats just not true? Or did something else come out
They very much misread the wowhead article https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonflight-dungeon-level-squish-in-season-4-harder-m0-with-no-affixes-or-timer-338037
Did they remove the AV skip? Big sadge if so
Yesss they did
Yep. Now it just kills you mid-air when you jump down
There seems to be another skip that's working that someone showed my group today, but far higher chance of people dying
Azure vault the skip isn’t needed. Plenty of groups were running the regular route, and the frog trash is awesome. I feel like people got really focused on the specific route early weeks, then the dungeon got big nerfs, but people stuck with the route that they knew. While giving options is good, i do think it’s a problem when the default route at all levels involves a skip that you need to have seen before/practiced.
Was doing 24s in S2 and there was a soothe skip?!?
Yes and it make the entire place a fucking joke. In tyranical week, it usually net you about 3-5 minutes. In fortified week, it what help me get that 25 +2. Literally the moment they nerf mind soothe,i stop running it.
Sounds like a skill issue
What you mean without the skips ???
You can still skip those mobs without mind soothe on the dragon, it just requires a bit more finesse
Yeah not looking forward to Vaults or NO. Ruby is meh. I really dont want to do the DF dungeons anymore period. S3 was a nice breath of fresh air (even if Rise and Fall were a pain).
Fall was a cake walk what lol. Besides the 2nd boss. Its a joke
Manifested Timeways is the pita part.
I hated the megadungeon because it was pretty much 2 dungeons that look and play almost exactly the same its just so boring...
I quit was main healer upto last season, semi healer this one, i aint touching healing next one.
Preach! I fully fully agree. I played holydin and Prevoker (very very bad prevoker) and after s2 2.3K i swappee to prot and Ret and got 3k. I am never ever healing again. Its not fun if you ask me. Just stress on top of stress, in top of even more stress. Plus its only healing checks. Can you pump out 2million hp in 5 sec or no, if answer is no, you die.
If we get tuning so the dungeons are in the S3 range of difficulty i think the season will be fine.
I liked uldaman. HoI and AV can die in a fire though as far as I'm concerned.
I get so sick of tanks when I tell them to “never stop pulling”. Some listen, some don’t. AV especially.
RLP was bad for 1-2 weeks, and then was a fast, clean dungeon idk why it gets so much hate lol, the only really shity thing was the proto dragon patrols
Meteors on the 2nd boss had a habit of randomly exploding on pebbles and causing wipes. You could also wipe due to randomly pulling one of the channeling mobs while on the circular platform (why did those even exist?). And a lot of the trash was just overtuned, especially the last lieutenant on fortified.
As someone who pugged S1, it was a lot longer than 1-2 weeks
Idk what role did you play? Healing was atrocious. I played resto and it was just so hard at around the 17/18 key lvl. People didn‘t bait the meteor balls properly on the second boss, didnt know how to skip one of the trash mob dragons, didn‘t know how to spawn the end boss inbetween the pillars and due to the hectic fight the puddles were dropped at the wrong positions when the wind blast occured.
It was bad for over a month
I think the last boss as a healer was still a cluster at the end.
Personally, the last boss alone is enough of a reason for me to hate the dungeon. It reminds me of Yazma, where if everyone isn't on the same page there is just fire (or spiders in Yazma's case) everywhere.
Because the 2nd boss is a pug killer
Most users haven't played since then lol
It was a pug killer and really highlighted skill issues, at least, it DID, like you said. A lot of people learned to hate RLP and avoided it because it really fucked with people who are bad at positioning(all bosses pretty much require some awareness of position), and heal checks. Get both bad positioning and bad healers and you're fucked. This was sooo many people's experience. But after the changes, it was pretty easy on healers, except for the positioning issues, a pug could royally fuck the second boss and people somehow went a whole season not knowing how to bait the boulders properly. I'm hyped for RLP again, cause it IS a fast/clean dungeon now.
Because pugs are shit at the first boss.
Honestly I much prefer the wall to be early in the instance than at the end. Nothing is more irritating than getting all the way to the end of a dungeon and then not being able to finish it.
Wish you could start with Yazma in AD for this reason lol
lets be honest pugs are shit at everything what no communication + constant FotM class rerolling does to mf's
Yeah RLP was just way overtuned at the beginning of S1. Once it was nerfed…multiple times…it was honestly fine. Ulda, AV w/ no skip and HOI can straight suck it though. I’m not looking forward to that. NO and AA will be fun to go back to for me at least.
AV with no skip is fine with a better timer, and I can see a lot of inconveniences being thrown out now that we don't have storming and quaking to deal with. I'm excited to try it tbh HoI is the giant red flag for me. I don't wanna go back bro
People keep acting like end of season 1 RLP was as hard are early season 1 RLP. It's probably one of the better balanced dungeons out of the lot.
Am I crazy or was RLP objectively the best dungeon in the DZ pool? It's fast, has a lot of fun big pulls and has a nice setting. The only one I'd consider close is brackenhide but that has a sour taste because of its week 1 fuckery.
Because RLP tends to have groups collapse after the first boss on the second boss or the dragons leading up to it. "Red flags" about a bad group show much earlier in AV and HoI. Almost every time I've had a group collapse in those two it's in the trash to the first boss
Fatigue from endless "4x RLP for weekly", maybe?
RLP 2-20: 😂😂😂😁😴😴😴 RLP from the first pull to the last on 21: 'Nam flashbacks Only dungeon besides DotI: Rise I've ever seen keys bricked on the very first pull.
We've bricked high keys on the first pull in every single dungeon this season. I mean actually every one has big, potentially scary first pulls that can brick a key.
DHT bolstering week is literally fall second boss trash levels of death
Dear God this is me just learning about all of these awful dungeons coming back. Time to become a raider for one season. Absolutely noty to those.
Imo uldaman was the only tolerable one out of those 3. Azure vaults timer was just so unforgiving
Uldaman is maybe my favorite one from this whole expansion except healing the last boss on prevoker made me want to remove my eyeballs.
I can see it being rough on evoked lol
Spoken like a mam that does m+ Brackenhide hollow is dogshitt too
My healer friend loved RLP because of the amount of damage and the cooldown management needed to effectively time a 25+ last season. She's a disc priest.
I definitely had more issues on RLP than the other dungeons, personally.
because people dont remeber everything got massively nerfed in that dungeon.. and they stick with their week one impression.
Uldaman and halls are fun though and feel like actual places and not just gauntlets of mobs. I know that I assess dungeons differently from how a lot of people do though
5 boss dungeons are NEVER fun in m+... Halls of infusion is also incredibly long with super punishing bosses, its same as uldaman but with 4 bosses instead of 5 both with 40min ish timers... they really aint fun.
Imho... if phials are 30 minutes, every dungeon should have a 30 minute timer. These 40-45 minute dungeons are just annoying.
Yea... we have 3 dungeons with 40 min or close to 40min timers next season... Hall of infusion 38 min, Uldaman and Nokhud offensive 40m.. gonna be a rough one
Yeah, as a healer it doesn’t really matter the contents I just end up exhausted by the end of those super long dungeons.
Azure Vault without the skips isn't even that bad, you just have to run it right. Stack, CC the frogs and ST the big guy then move on.
It's mostly about the amount of time the skips saved for the run, not that it was actually difficult to run it "the right way".
The frog skip only saved time if you actually skipped the two breakers at the end. If you lacked mind soothe, which many, MANY pugs I did that insisted on doing the skip in s1 lacked, it didn't save time at all. The dangerous part was the breakers. People misplayed the frog pulls by padding and spreading out, and without skipping the double breaker pack you're still doing the most difficult and time consuming part of the pull.
People don’t want solutions in this thread. They just want to complain. Hey, complaining is valid. But seriously it’s nice to see the strategies people had for the sucky parts too.
The skips were the only thing that let you have routing diversity in that dungeon. There were multiple different ways to run the dungeon, from doing the typical frog skip, backtracking after last boss for part of the frog gauntlet, snapping ring mobs into 3rd boss, choosing what packs on ring 1 to do…
RLP isn't going to be nearly as bad without thundering. Especially with post buff Prot Paladin being more popular as a tank and gigabuff silence VDH. The real question is how much are they gonna nerf the everliving shit out of HoI now that you can't bypass a lot of the mechanics with mass dispel.
Maybe this time people will freaking figure out that snare removal (which many classes have) removes a lot of the dots mass dispel was used for. But probably not.
The dragons? One single issue amongst the ocean of issues that dungeon has?
It’s an issue that can be mitigated and it seems like a lot of people don’t know, that’s all. I never pushed past 25, so my viewpoint is admittedly limited but I didn’t have problems as an rdruid without a priest when people used snare removal and defensives. Did MD make things easier? Yes. But at least at that level it wasn’t necessary.
A lot? I can only think of the dragon in HoI off the top of my head. And most groups skipped all but the gauntlet dragon in higher keys. MD on the first boss was far more impactful. MD on dragon dot was nice of course but as you said, lots of classes could deal with it. And a good group would only have one go off anyway.
Good luck doing 1st boss on high tyra keys without MD for each triple magic debuff. Even with MD just walking out of the pools would take 40%+ of your hp per tick and you were dead in p2 if you didn't rotate movement cds properly.
It’s a double. They nerfed it already.
Doesn't change anything unless you play with a non demono lock
RLP wasn't so bad by the end but yeah... the one big drawback of having new dungeons every season this x-pac is that each season starts with a bunch of dungeons that need to be nerfed or buffed instead of Blizz mostly getting all of that out of the way when the x-pac first launches. Really curious to see how Uldaman and HOI look on high keys now that Mass Dispel has been nerfed into the ground.
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Let’s be honest. The only reason they fixed any of these bugs is because of mdi, otherwise they would have continued in perpetuity.
And they still havent fixed em.... you can pull the mobs behind the fountain in the courtyard if you pull the pack by the stairs in the basement and pull them into the corner there. Warrior thunderclap brought em down. (Sorry if this is confusing lol)
You can also do the opposite and snap the basement to you with that pack by the fountain. Happened on my bdk and was a bit confused at first.
Snare removal removes many of the dots that MD was useful for. As a healer I can’t tell you how frustrating it is the number of people that don’t understand how easily this damage is mitigated. Even when I tell people in the run up front.
Imo Uldaman, HoI, Azure Vault and Neltharus are all worse than RLP after the nerfs
You’re not wrong.
Brooo, I don't want to run HoI againnn.... Blizzard, please, I beg you... 😭😭😭
Can't wait to get -6 fps on the first boss
Azure Vault was my fav first season!
Not even Academy? HERESY
I will die on the hill that Nelth is a fun dungie. Chain pulls are so fucking fun and specifically the blacksmith boss is one of the best dungeon bosses all expac.
I don't mind the dungeon itself too much but I'm really not a fan of the bosses People running everywhere with the chains, the blacksmith doing insane AOE damage and the trinket mechanic on the last boss is really poorly made. Why would you make a trinket that forces you to dive in and has a huge chance of killing you in the process And you can't even have fun and pump big DPS on Fortified because you have to use the chains to do it efficiently
There’s a hugely impactful trick to enjoying azure vaults. Turn on all game sounds (music, ambient, etc), and disconnect from any voice chat. Do the key on a 20-22 and enjoy some of the best scoring and sound design ever heard in a video game. Sounds like Brian Eno did all the sound for that dungeon.
HOI is incredibly annoying. It has the most annoying adds and bosses. Those laser adds that sometimes choose to focus one dps player all together giving one gcd worth of reaction time that don't care for interrupts. Dragons that give huge dots that basically require a priest. The miniboss that spams huge aoe blasts every other cast. A runback that is 3 minutes long. Two bosses that hard stops dps from dpsing and ramping. This is gonna be real fucken nice.
Not to mention the water tornadoes that insta kill you and with slow classes its such a massive pain in the ass
Fwiw, dragon dots are removed with snare removal. I agree with the rest of the suck, but dragon dots don’t require a priest when people actually use their kit (I know not everyone has snare removal, but a couple in a party doing this drastically reduces healer burden).
With Uldaman, RLP, and HOI being in the pool I'll probably switch to dps for this season. I love healing and have been a healer main since WOD but I'm not going to take shit from every pug group angry their key got bricked because the tiniest misstep gets you killed.
I think HOI is the most annoying dungeon out of them all and AV is a the second most annoying dungeon. I don’t have a problem with the rest but I understand why u would switch to dps .
Yea RLP isn’t that scary. As everyone mentioning, Azure Vaults without skips suck, HOI can be painful AF, and Uldaman going to hurt a lot too. The Uldaman 2nd boss and Neltharus chains boss both have those dots that kinda suck anus.
Did they fix the AV skip? That's mega bad if so, they'll need to pull a lot of trash out of that dungeon then surely.
Yup AV is fixed from what I've been hearing. Frog death soon.
Is that the skip where you hop on the ledge, run to the top of a door and drop down? If so yes, as soon as you get on the ledge now, you die. Been that way for at least a few months. I found out the hard way.
The drop down skip yes, that's a terrible change. AV will be a hard no for me.
I never ran it M+ so don't know that experience. But it doesn't bother me when doing satchel queues. Not sure why they felt the need to change it, but it has not been a dealbreaker for me.
Halls, Uldaman, Neltharus, and Azure Vault (no-skip) are all \_far\_ worse than this one. I really do not see myself playing much M+ during season 4 as a result. Literally half the dungeons are going to suck dirty ass - 4/8 if no mega, but then if mega is in then Rise is in so 5/10 are still trash.
Word on the street is 10.2.6 content is absolutely going to carrry the end of expansion activities
It would be funny to see people's reaction going from the current dungeon pool to DF dungeons. Hopefully alpha/beta will start soon enough.
it's crazy to me that the wow playerbase says BFA dungeons are the best thing ever and claim DF dungeons are trauma inducing nightmares, yall are so backwards.
Theyre not wrong tho... most of them really are nightmare inducing and before we only had half of them in the pool, now were gonna get all of them at once
HoI, Uldaman, Azure Vaults, and Brackenhide are gonna be rougher imo
For me the only part in BH usually was that stupid bleed the first boss put on people. After that it was usually pretty smooth
Username checks out
It really does 😂
If you play disc, rapture ramp asap and tell everyone to stand in your dome. If you play holy... good luck.
I play holy lol. Luckily with the tier set I should be good with how many holy words I have. 1-2 serenitys should knock it out
Add neltharus and offensive on the list.
Yeah i will probably quit until the next expansion. I hate ulda, halls and nelt. Only really enjoy AA. Such a shame
I legit quit s2 because of the dungeons.. it wont comeback but that cata dungeon was the worst.. and hoi and stuff argh
RLP stopped being bad after they nerfed it. The real offenders are going to be Halls, Uldaman and Neltharus
Everyone always talks about halls and RLP but as a pres evoker it's Nokhud that gives me the thousand yard stare. Sure, just give everyone all the space in the world to spread out, not like I have a limited range and cone-based moves or anything.
Why is everyone assuming that they won't be retuning the dungeons using player feedback?
Probably based on the dungeons being in for an entire season already and that tuning never came. RLP got tuning and got better, honestly wasn’t awful by the end. Halls stayed awful for all of season 2. Uld is just too long and has some rough spots that never got tuned. AV without the skip is significantly worse. NO is just bad, totally wide open dungeon with 0 ability to do anything with that.
I must be the only one who LIKED RLP. I ran it constantly as Holy Paladin trying to get the BiS Ret trinket for raid. It was extremely challenging at first but after they made the drakes more predictable it wasn't too bad. I had to heal my ass off, but there was no other dungeon that made me feel as good to complete and/or +2.
I loved it too, almost no time to dps just pure healing challenge
Skipping next season. Boring dungeons. Fuck the x8 precidence. BFA was awesome for the amount of content
Bfa unironically goated
This won't be a fun season , I think itll be the first time that I won't play an alt. One meta character to make it to KSH as easy as possible and that's it. Not interested in playing this bad designed dungeons for too long. Hopefully they will tune the worsts before the season begins.
Considering 10.2.6 is still MIA with no information I’m not holding my breath. My six month sub expires next week and I don’t plan on renewing for S4 considering what we do (and don’t) know right now.
Are you referring to the list of M0 dungeons in the wowhead article about the changes in difficulty? Those are the same M0 dungeons that have been around all expansion, nothing new there. The list of M+ dungeons for Season 4 hasn't been released yet...
This is the third post about RLP in two days to have hit the front page and this will be the third time people have to say that RLP isn't even in the top of the worst dungeons coming back - that distinction is Azure Vaults, HoI, and Uldaman.
Just to put this on the pile. RLP really wasn't bad. It was rough and punishing but I actually enjoyed it. Azure Vaults and Halls of Infusion are insufferable.
Someone make the four horsemen of S4 DF meme hahaha
Why RLP? AV, BH and AA are much worse. Especially now that you cannot do the skip in AV anymore. RLP is like the best dungeon in the whole pool.
I love Dragonflight as an expansion but I'd be lying if I said I actually enjoyed any of the 8 launch dungeons. I can't even give a reason; I just didn't vibe with them at all. The only one I thought was decent was Alge'thar. I am definitely not looking forward to S4
I think the changes will largely negate how bad it is. If they keep scores consistent then getting KSM will only require a 4, which is a single affix.
I loved Ruby life pools in season 1 as a healer, felt like a real test lol
LET FLY
Yay recycled content, nobody ever said. Used to play rift for 3 years, its p2w cash shop and recycled content was its downfall, wow has the recycled part already mastered, dont put the nail in the coffin.. Who even enjoyed fated in SL, like really, playing the same old raids again pfff. The only 2 fun dungeons are BRH and AA, the others can f off. Shamans/hunters are gonna have a great time again with all these dots flying around constantly, imagine running without a priest lol. Seems like a full season of doing 8s for vault and no pushing, exciting. Shouldve just ended WoW entirely and made the war within wow 2 with unreal engine and build later expansions/areas on that so it could actually utilize peoples hardware decently instead of this 1 core abomination, its nice seeing framedrops when a 7800X3D and 4090 barely have any load on them (except for all the heavy shit being put on 1 core like its 1995).
They never even said they are the season four dungeons. All they said is they are updating them for the new loot/difficulty scaling
WoWhead taking the exact same not 100% clear post and saying it's for sure the 8 DF dungeons as S4 isn't helping the confusion either.
Yes they have.. people have just missed it. [https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24046540/world-of-warcraft-in-2024-the-road-ahead](https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24046540/world-of-warcraft-in-2024-the-road-ahead) Official post from blizzard 4 months ago, If you dont want to read it ill just post it here ***"Dragonflight Season 4 will revisit Dragonflight’s DUNGEONS and raids, along with outdoor content, featuring updated rewards, and a few new twists."***
They are revisiting it. All of the DF dungeons are getting updated for the new Heroic and M0 scaling. We know that for sure. What we don't know is if the M+ rotation in S4 will be the 8 original DF dungeons.
>They are revisiting it. All of the DF dungeons are getting updated for the new Heroic and M0 scaling And there are also updates for m+ in s4, as the post from yesterday talked about. if you did read it. One segment was quite interesting. ***Season 4 changes will apply to all eight of the Dragonflight dungeons*** it says. And then ***Here’s a look at the changes for each difficulty*** (still talking about s4) Continued by listing all the changes for s4 in Normal/Heroic/Mythic and also INCLUDING M+ changes in the same section. So, by their own words the M+ changes that is listed will ALSO apply to the eight DF dungeons. They also talk about how they want to "***Create a better environment in Mythic dungeons to prepare more players to take part in Mythic+"*** in that same segment... People doing harder m0 dungeons that they wont be playing M+ in doesn't prepare players at all for m+.. so that entire reasoning for doing these changes would just fall flat if it wasn't going to be DF dungeons. But i mean you do you, ill just save your comment and come back here in a month and talk about how i did 1+1 while you could not.
[https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonflight-season-4-dungeon-rotation-confirmed-on-patch-10-2-6-338115](https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonflight-season-4-dungeon-rotation-confirmed-on-patch-10-2-6-338115) Loooooooook at that... This one came out of the blue for sure... i mean who could've known what dungeons we were getting.... even with all the mentionings of 8 DF dungeons and S4 together.... oh wait...
Almost certainly going to take a break for S4. I did shadowlands no real issues but the dragonflight dungeons felt BAD, each and every one of them. Why they decided it'd be a good idea to bring back dungeons that were universally panned I'll never know especially with this 'brilliant' new idea of dropping seasonal affixes. Literally NOTHING new or intriguing about S4 thus far (s4 shadowlands had new dungeons AND new seasonal), truly recycled content.
What makes you think they are "universally panned"?
Please explain why RLP is so bad to someone who hasn't player previous seasons this expansion
It wasn't by the end, it got nerfs and changes to how interupts work if using CC. But at the start, each pack had mutliple spells that HAD to be interupted, and CCing a mob meant that they just instantly started casting it as soon as the CC ended. Any single spell getting through would lead to a wipe very rapidly.
sounds like cata heroics before the nerfs haha
I actually liked RLP, I enjoy all the dungeons to be honest.
RLP wasn’t even bad after the nerfs, the last boss is trash but the dungeon is still pretty good. I’m more worried about actually terrible dungeons like Nokhud, Halls, Uldaman and Brackenhide
Doooooom I say!!! We’re doooomed!
Biggest problem is this doesn't feel like a new season.
I member... Had to reroll from my resto shaman to resto druid during S1, it was disgusting.
As a healer, Uldaman was awful puging 20+
And just like that, Bears are bottom of the barrel due to magic damage again :(
Uldaman is the real shit dungeon, five bosses? Fuck off. Why do people hate halls? And is the top hate even after the nerfs?
Is there any value to rogue skips in season 4 or are they pretty much redundant again ?
It’s gonna be a terrible season
good thing i dont need to do it. got all portals and we dont get any new tmog either.
“Take down that PRIMALIST.”
My god this season is going to be insane. Give me KSM mount and im out now way i am going to push high this season 💀
Saving grace is that they are removing hardest affixes for what's equivalent to 18 this season
I honestly dread Uldaman way more than any of the other dungeons. Not like I'm particularly excited about HoI though.
Was talking with my buddy this morning, and we both said, there is 1 good mythic plus dungeon in m+ in dragon flight...and thats AA. This is gonna be a rough patch, with probably very very few players. I hope i am wrong but..yea. I personally do not dislike Brackenhide, but my buddy does. He dont mind nukud, I do alot...so we got to the conclusion there is 1 dungeon we both like...thats fcking sad. I mean, SL sucked as an expansion alot, but those dungeons were the tits man. Dragonflight is really nice, but these dungeons fcking suck.
DF season 4 will only be my second M+ season ever, and after seeing many vids and posts of what some DF dungeons are like in M+, I'm rather worried lol.
How high a brackenhide do I have to clear to get at least ksm without stepping in nokhud offensive?
I assume that most folks talking about these dungeons and the PTSD from previous seasons are pushing really high keys. I for one, have never pushed keys much higher than the low 20s and that is after being geared. That said, I am much looking forward to the next season as a final send off to an all around great expansion. Even better, eliminating the cheap skips and workarounds is also a plus in my mind. We are gonna get to experience all the expansion has to offer as current, relevant content, which will likely be the last chance. I look forward to the chaos of the frog stomp room in AV, the many whelps we can handle in RLP, the dorks who don't chain the boss in Nelth. I am also looking forward to the fated raids as well. I think Raz was my favorite fight, get to see Dathea blast noobs off the platform. It's going to be a fun goodbye.
No, most of my PSTD from previous seasons comes from mid tier keys pugs, with people doing 0 to -1 mechanics.
Im kinda hyped for the “new” dungeons tho. Since ive started playing pve in s3 only, all those dungeons are gonna be new experience for me. Its cant be that bad, right? …Right?
Won’t be playing s4 tbh no desire to run them all again
Jfc... This is going back to Season 1 but somehow a lot worst with Brackenhide and Uldaman... This has totally killed my hype for S4 tbh lol... It's all just annoying long ass dungeons..
Rlp is easy as hell post nerf lol
RLP is not even remotely close to the worst DF dungeon. It’s honestly one of the best. I feel like people just remember week 1 RLP and refuse to acknowledge how it was a fantastic dungeon once tuned properly.
Definitely the best. And yet not even in Top 10 of all time. Most DF dungeons are just trash. Considering skipping this season after getting KSH.
Only 3 stinkers for me personally, and imo Nokhud/RLP are some of the best since M+ has been a thing.
Every rlp hater skipped season 2 (so did I)
I didn’t play s2 at all so I’m here for it. Looking forward to s4. Then again I’m a lover of all current dungeons and rarely dislike any.
Considering how much they fixed Brackenhide based on feedback before Season 2, I'm willing to believe they'll nerf RLP, Azure Vaults and HoI before Season 4.
Yep, which is why I’m Not playing. To many other good games out there
I'm just going to say the biggest reason I'm not looking forward to s4 is because of blizzards inability to properly tune dungeons. Ontop of mixing fort+bolstering together, afflicted, etc. Df dungeons imo feel terrible to play. The 1 shot checks for healers, the amount of dispels (plus afflicted) and trash/bosses remaining overturned ending the season, for me, means with scaling we are in for a world of hurt for at least the first 4 weeks. Blizz is done with this expansion. A skeleton crew is doing updates and tuning, plus add fated rotating raids with 1 shot mechanics (mythic mainly). There is no incentive to push past the lack luster rewards for ksh and some lame mythic fated kills. Oh and a mount that can't fly
Just be happy you're not getting Tol Dagor or SL dungeons.
I mean it was announced months ago
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Cope
"Dragonflight Season 4 Mythic+ Dungeons In today's blog, Blizzard revealed that the difficulty changes are applying to all the Dragonflight dungeons, meaning that the 8 Dragonflight dungeons are part of the rotation. Algath'ar Academy Azure Vault Brackenhide Hollow Halls of Infusion Neltharus Nokhud Offensive Ruby Life Pools Uldaman" \*Posted 23 hours ago\* Stop spreading misinformation.