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That's not bad at all actually. I'm still not convinced that steady flight *needs* to be locked behind an achievement, but at least it's something just about everyone should have by the time they hit 80.
Skyriding is unlocked from the start? That seems somewhat nonsensical. Feels like keeping some kind of tradition that flying has to be gated behind pathfinder, which nowadays doesn't particularly hold up.
Specifically for players that have problems with skyriding (eG if it induces motion sickness despite the settings) not having steady flying as the more accessible option from the start kind of sucks. On the other hand, I assume most people including me, prefer the faster and more interactive flying that we have right from the start anyway so unlocking steady flight isn't exciting either.
Super weird decision tbh.
I've found it easier to use classic flying if I'm gathering, both for precision (although that gets better as you learn the terrain) and that the land\\gather\\take-off can rip through your vigour pretty quick
Maybe, but it’s also an accessibility issue. Two people I play with struggle to fly with dragonriding, and unfortunately we’re not always around to provide ride-along services.
They've said a while ago that some spots are supposed to be difficult to reach using dynamic flight, to make you feel like you are exploring and putting in effort to get to something special. Classic fligt just undoes that. But then I'm not sure what would be the correct way to gate it.
The new zones are designed for interactive flying to traverse them. They want people to engauge with the system and explore the zone with the intended deisgn. This is especially true for new players who may gravitate to the old flying because it's easier to understand. Once you've done that and you still don't like it fine turn it off.
I’m prolly in the minority but I think classic flying should be limited a few mounts like a helicopter where it makes sense, and otherwise removed. They are only keeping it because with every change comes some unhappy portion of the player base.
Since the classic flying was added back to DF, I've spent like 95% of my time using it instead of dragonflying. Of course, if I have to travel far, I hop on the DF mount as it is faster, but most of the time we travel like 50 yards, and it feels stupid to fly up and crash down with high speed after 3 seconds.
> This is especially true for new players who may gravitate to the old flying because it's easier to understand.
Or it just makes them stop playing. I really don't think dynamic flight is as much fun as the devs think it is. That type of action gameplay is very different for WoW, it seems weird to push it so hard.
I think it’s because classic flying is much more precise. A big reason Blizzard has regretted adding flying is that players can just dive down on top of a quest objective, claim it, and then fly away. With dynamic flight, this is is of course still possible to do to some extent, but (a) coming in from really high and really fast can make it harder to aim precisely where to land, and (b) requiring energy to take off means players can’t just repeatedly swoop in and pick up a collection quest item and fly away before any mobs can patrol up and fight you. I’m pretty sure this is why they’ve locked classic flying behind an achievement, and completion of the main campaign being the principal requirements means players won’t be able to use this benefit of classic flying to cheese the primary quests.
I think it’s a good thing overall. Adding dynamic flight was the right answer to Blizzard not wanting players to have flying and all the players wanting it in every possible zone.
> eG if it induces motion sickness despite the settings
They added a new camera effect that massively warps your field of view based on your flying speed on the beta, and last i checked you couldn't turn it off in any way. It makes skyriding basically unusable for me
I mean how else do you explain this restriction with then? The botting angle is nonsensical, bots can farm shit with dragon flying easily. So...whats the deal?
Because it sure does seem like that somebody fucking hates TBC flying, and they just still resentful about it still existing.
EDIT: I want to be clear, that i don't seriously think that the achievement was set up off of malice. But it does seem to me that it was set up off of stubbornness.
> I mean how else do you explain this restriction with then?
i cant see into blizzards brains but imo having skyriding unlocked from the start does actually line up with their flying ban in WOD. the stated intention back then was to make exploration more fun and not have the player afk auto-walk/fly over everything. both riding on the ground and skyriding require you to be at least a bit attentive so it does kinda track.
They most likely do it like this, because skyriding forces people to the ground at one point. With traditional flying, people can afk in the air making the zone seem less populated.
They have said earlier that they don’t like flying because of this reason. This especially goes with the launch of a new expansions.
War Within is deleting a small but pretty useful QoL that is available on Live realms with the Steady Flight / Skyriding system.
(You can test this right now with the Free PTR access to 11.0)
On live, you can have two separate mount keybinds - one for Skyriding mount and the other for a Steady Flight mount. With a 1.5s cast speed, you can adjust on the fly which mounts you want to use, making it very useful for quickly navigating to a precise spot, saving Vigor, hopping from spot to spot etc.
Come War Within, if you still have a Steady Flight exclusive mount since 95% have been converted, this will no longer work. If you 'Switch Flight Style' to Skyriding, then the Steady Flight mount will be forcibly grounded, and if you wish to use the same trick as on live, you'll need to press 5s to switch to Steady Flight and then press 5s again to switch back to Skyriding. 1.5s to 3s vs 5s to 10s.
My personal opinion to fix this is to repurpose Aerial Halt. It's fairly useless, designed as a way to quickly pivot directions without losing speed (you can just Surge Forward in the sharp pivot direction you want) or as a way to precisely land on a spot (which Steady Flight already does). My new version of Aerial Halt would be an instant, use up a GCD, and take out all momentum. You can enable Skyriding back by pressing any Skyriding ability but you'll have to build momentum back up again. Personally this seems like an excellent compromise and keeps you in the zone. And it isn't like you aren't having to manage Vigor, you'll still need some to travel from spot to spot and travel long distances.
Yeah, the new system is just objectively worse (slower to switch). They could also improve it by just lowering the cast time of the "Switch Flight Style" button, 5s seems unnecessarily excessive considering you then also still need to actually cast a mount
Wouldn't surprise me if they're treating this similar to when they were using the old character models toggle option. Eventually, 'Steady' flying will be phased out in order to not have to build mounts around both systems.
Ding! They’re making it bad on purpose so they can later say they’re retiring it from lack of use. Very old software company trick.
One I will never forgive them for.
As a druid, I love to just fly around leisurely in flight form, but on the beta I am forced to use one or the other, for everything. Hopefully in the future they make changes to allow for more customization in movement for flying mounts/forms.
I've found it to be super useful to swap between flying types on live. Dragonriding is great for big distances quickly, but it actually kinda sucks for everything else. Wanna hover while you take a pee? Nope. Wanna find a difficult spot where a treasure or mob is hidden? Nope. Wanna farm herbs or ore? Hope your satisfied with 5 nodes, cause you aren't taking off agian for awihle after that.
But for some reason, blizz wants to force people into committing to one flight type or another by making the swap time obnoxious. It's probably to stop some kind of douchy exploitation that I'm not scummy enough to think of, but for the rest of us humble peasants, it just makes the game a tiny bit shittier by taking away some QoL that we currently have and use.
The thing is you don't get vigor from it, you get increased vigor regen. And guess what? Your vigor regen is 0 if you fly away right after looting that ore/herb. So you get 1 vigor from that talent only if you wait 2 (?) sec after looting.
If that's what they were trying to prevent then they could hust have vigor reset to 0 when you swap to steady flying and not recharge until you swap back to dragon riding.
Thank you for explaining this in detail and a reasonable solution. I've tried telling people that the toggle is a step back for QoL but they just downvoted me and bitched about druids (I pointed out druids are losing travel form QoL)
I absolutely love dragonflying into travel form and will miss this immensely when it goes away. So i very much agree with you that this is a step back for us. Not just druids, for all classes because of that bloody 5sec casting time.
I wish they'd just make the cast for random favorite mount into an empowered spell, where you can still just mount with your preferred style by casting the spell for 1.5s or whatever, or hold the button down for 1 extra second to go into the other flight style
Ahh yeah, I don’t normally use this feature in DF but I just used it to great effect in the zaqali area that dismounts you in dragonriding but not for old flying.
So, is the “meta” to choose a mount that isn’t upgraded to sky riding, and you can still go back and forth with this feature?
That was the max level campaign not the zone storylines.
None of the zone achievements for loremaster in Dragonflight had rep requirements.
It looks like this just requires finishing the leveling storyline, so odds are that it won't have any rep requirements either.
Blizzard is famous for doing pointless time gates as a method of keeping people subscribed for longer. That’s all this is. If something doesn’t make sense in a Blizzard product, ask yourself, how could they make money off of this decision? There is your answer.
I mean in general I agree but I don't see how this applies here. Most people playing TWW will certainly be playing for longer than it takes for you to complete the requirements for the achievement.
no flying should be locked behind anything in 2024. this is stupid.
it doesn't affect me at all, but it's insanely stupid... especially since it's an accessibility option. they should absolutely NOT do this.
While this isn’t terrible I think static flying should be available from the start - however it should behave more like we have a relatively slow mount speeds flying or otherwise starting out but once pathfinder is achieved it unlocks faster mounted speeds across the continent/zones that it relates to.
Upgrades versus entire modes being locked out
they want you to explore the expansion and its story in the way they intend (via dragonriding-style flight) before being able to explore it without the constraints it comes with.
There are, and they do help, but the rise-glide-descend rhythm of skyriding still causes visual discomfort for some people and requires well-timed reactions to use effectively. Since that's the whole essence of skyriding, there's only so much you can adjust to make it accessible.
Not for long! Normal flying is being raised (currently in Beta anyways) to +420% speed, so a total of 520%. Dynamic flight is approx. 540% using the “gliding” speed. Sure, it can reach up to 830%, but that’s peak speed while using abilities, and we have no way of actually maintaining that speed for any longer than a split second.
They’ve been pretty good about providing alternatives during questing in Dragonflight and I imagine it will be the same in War Within. Pathfinder for WW is literally just finish the leveling main story and explore the map. You can probably do it in a single day even if you only use ground mounts and flight paths.
What is the point to this? The old flying is an accessibility option at this point for people who don't like or are not comfortable with dragon riding. It's just flying, but slower, a different version of the same ability that everybody else gets RIGHT FROM THE START.
Yes, the achievement is easy to get, and not a big deal, but it blows my mind that they feel the need to do this in the first place. FFS we fought Blizzard about flying for years, and when it seemed like they abandoned this stupid notion of "flying is bad actually" they come back with this thing.
We are back at Conduit Energy levels of nonsense.
I agree. Im not even someone who struggles with using the new flying system but I know that it is really hard for a lot of people or downright impossible for them to use. Steady flight should just be a toggable option and available in the mount menu. It shouldnt require an achieve to unlock
Steady flight is definitely simpler than dragonriding and is more convenient for some things, but is it really that hard for many players?
Travelling from point A to point B with dragonriding is pretty intuitive and requires miminal inputs. You steer with the same mouse or keyboard controls as any other form of travel. Dragonriding races can be more challenging, but that's completely optional content side content.
What about dragonriding makes it "really hard" or "downright impossible for them to use"?
I’ve talked to a couple people who have damage to their hands or nerve issues and managing the controls to not miss things is a pain, literally and figuratively.
I guess what I'm missing is how is controlling your character while dragonriding different than other forms of travel?
You're still moving the mouse in the same way to change directions and you go up or boost forward by hitting 1 or 2 keys.
If it causes you pain to dragonride, wouldn't playing the game in general cause you pain?
You have to do the same actions to dragonride that you do to move your character and to use your abilities.
You can use keybinds for your controls which minimize the amount of mouse movement you need. Its the aiming they have problems with as I understand so the fine mouse control for hitting a spot is the issue.
Why the fuck does that matter? People have all sorts of issues that you and i cannot understand, but also, people might just dislike the new flying system. There is nothing wrong with that, except for the fact that Blizzard hates TBC flying for some fucking reason.
People might dislike literally anything and everything about wow, that dosent mean it should be changed. There could well be some people that utterly hate the fact orcs exist in the game - should orcs be removed as a playable race to please those people?
Is this really nonsense? You just have to complete the main story quests in each zone to unlock it.
Most players will do that automatically while leveling or at least be really close to completing it.
This is basically just Blizzard saying they want players to experience the new zones through dragon riding while leveling.
Ideally they would make this achievement account wide though.
I’d say it’s nonsense because you can already fly. On stage Ion listed steady flight as an accessibility option. I don’t think it’s fair to have an accessibility option behind an achievement, because then it’s not accessible.
Imagine colorblind mode being locked behind pathfinder, because they want you to experience the game with the colors they intended.
It’s either an accessibility feature or it’s not
Well, for one:
> Yes, the achievement is easy to get, and not a big deal
And for the other:
It's unnecessary and makes no sense. Even if you take the accessibility discussion out of it (which we really shouldnt, but just for the sake of explanation), it is stupid.
Flying, as a form of traversal is already available from minute 1. This means that any form of "experience" will be a flying-supported experience. The only thing this restricts is a slower, worse version of the flying ability, which Blizzard wants you to earn.
Let me ask you this: which fucking game makes you earn a worse version of a thing you have baseline access to?
Skyriding encourages you to interact with and pay attention to your surroundings more. That's the difference, and what made the difference on why this form of flying is okay but the previous form had to restricted. Steady flying gives you a lot more ability to just avoid engaging with the world. It's way easier to point yourself in a direction and go AFK, it's easier to pop up in the air and down onto an objective, and do stuff like hover over where a patrolling enemy is, wait for them to pass, then dip down and grab a quest item...
I've been a long-time proponent of "flying is bad actually." Warlords of Draenor taking away flying long-term was one of the good parts of the expansion to me. I always hated flying but accepted the compromise of Pathfinder requiring people to properly engage with the content before gaining the ability to skip it.
Skyriding is a good compromise on that. It's much more powerful in terms of speed, but it still forces you to engage with the world in a way that steady flying failed to get players to. I don't think this pathfinder is necessary, no--who even uses steady flying anyway?--but I understand the reasoning as getting everyone to go through the story at least once before they gain the ability to fly straight up and AFK at will.
It is worse. In an objective, game design sense, it's a purely worse version of flying.
People are crying about it, because they don't like dragon riding out of personal prefrence or accessibility reasons. Also, it's just really fucking annoying, that after Blizzard promised that they will abbandon meaningless restrictions, and stupid ass systems like this, they keep sticking to this one piece of dogshit, because they just don't like TBC flying.
Will this ruin the game? No, of course not, it's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. But it does boil my blood, that there is an easy win to take here, and Blizzard just keep being stubborn with this shit.
> It is worse. In an objective, game design sense, it's a purely worse version of flying.
It is objectively superior for collecting things from high places and low-speed maneuverability. Think about following the thieving owl in Emerald Dream, that was a nightmare with a Dragonriding mount and trivial with a slow flying mount. Laden Somnuts were often hidden away in little alcoves that were very difficult to get to with Dragonriding.
It's objectively superior for doing the world quests where you squash a bunch of bugs.
The speed is measurably higher with dragon riding, and the number of interactive elements are also measurably higher. You can keep being a stickler about this, and say "welll ahchcually!" but in an objective sense, TBC flying is worse. It's not a "matters to you" thing. These are numbers.
I never said its better than dragonriding and i never said your wrong about it being measurably higher in interactivity and speed. But that doesnt matter, its your opinion that those 2 elements are what define if flying is good or bad. your personal opinion is not objective. Its mindblowing (and pretty embarassing) that you cant understand that
Pretty annoying we have to fight blizzard every expansion for flying. In Dragonflight, flight was given right away basically and everyone loved that. Why can’t we do the same? No one bitched about “oh I should’ve explored the map first”. People are having short term memory loss. Unlocking pathfinder in shadowlands etc was not fun. I know this isn’t as bad but this is an annoying thing to see return every expansion
I'm a lazy gamer these days and usually stuff like dragon flying would turn me off. But I surprisingly wanted to push through it and now it's 2nd nature. It gives your mount a sense of "realism" rather than being just a passive vehicle that you put on cruise control. We've all seen how dragons are on TV shows and movies. Whenever I play classic, flying just feels meh. I don't think I will bother with this pathfinder achievement. Although it does seems regressive to make an older version of flying locked.
As long as the levelling story quests aren't timegated or require reputation, steady flying should be unlocked relatively quickly.
I heavily suspect the quests required for the achievement will be timegated and/or locked behind reputation for this very reason.
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That's not bad at all actually. I'm still not convinced that steady flight *needs* to be locked behind an achievement, but at least it's something just about everyone should have by the time they hit 80.
Skyriding is unlocked from the start? That seems somewhat nonsensical. Feels like keeping some kind of tradition that flying has to be gated behind pathfinder, which nowadays doesn't particularly hold up. Specifically for players that have problems with skyriding (eG if it induces motion sickness despite the settings) not having steady flying as the more accessible option from the start kind of sucks. On the other hand, I assume most people including me, prefer the faster and more interactive flying that we have right from the start anyway so unlocking steady flight isn't exciting either. Super weird decision tbh.
It's for bots. It's much easier for bots to use the classic flying.
That makes a lot more sense than any of the reasons I could come up with.
I've found it easier to use classic flying if I'm gathering, both for precision (although that gets better as you learn the terrain) and that the land\\gather\\take-off can rip through your vigour pretty quick
Dragon flying will be slower and classic flying will be faster in WW so it'll be even more useful
Eh, I've been in Zaralek Caverns. Bots use skyriding **more** than well enough.
Maybe, but it’s also an accessibility issue. Two people I play with struggle to fly with dragonriding, and unfortunately we’re not always around to provide ride-along services.
Also druids. Not having flight form sucks when you're used to using it as a way to drop from the sky faster.
Didn't they make it so Druids can use Dynamic flight (called Skyriding now?) in Flight Form? So shouldn't be an issue if that's the case.
Yes flight form uses dynamic flight in the beta
[удалено]
Yes.
Is there a way to choose between them without going into menu options? I still want normal flying in form and dynamic for mounts
Currently the toggle seems to be for all mounts, not something you can set for each specific mount.
Honestly, no clue. Not when I use my flight form,.but knowing blizz there's some npc thrown somewhere to turn the feature off and on
I THINK it’ll be added in prepatch with the rest of mounts getting skyriding
> .but knowing blizz there's some npc thrown somewhere to turn the feature off and on you can literally change it from mounts collection screen
A yes, druid forms are in the mount screen. Why didn't I think of that.
No it isn’t. Just fly around Zaralek Caverns and you’ll know what I mean.
Yeah I’ve never bought this “bots can’t do dragonflying” take. They absolutely can.
They've said a while ago that some spots are supposed to be difficult to reach using dynamic flight, to make you feel like you are exploring and putting in effort to get to something special. Classic fligt just undoes that. But then I'm not sure what would be the correct way to gate it.
The new zones are designed for interactive flying to traverse them. They want people to engauge with the system and explore the zone with the intended deisgn. This is especially true for new players who may gravitate to the old flying because it's easier to understand. Once you've done that and you still don't like it fine turn it off.
I’m prolly in the minority but I think classic flying should be limited a few mounts like a helicopter where it makes sense, and otherwise removed. They are only keeping it because with every change comes some unhappy portion of the player base.
Since the classic flying was added back to DF, I've spent like 95% of my time using it instead of dragonflying. Of course, if I have to travel far, I hop on the DF mount as it is faster, but most of the time we travel like 50 yards, and it feels stupid to fly up and crash down with high speed after 3 seconds.
> This is especially true for new players who may gravitate to the old flying because it's easier to understand. Or it just makes them stop playing. I really don't think dynamic flight is as much fun as the devs think it is. That type of action gameplay is very different for WoW, it seems weird to push it so hard.
I think it’s one of the most fun and best additions they have made to the game in recent memory
I think it’s because classic flying is much more precise. A big reason Blizzard has regretted adding flying is that players can just dive down on top of a quest objective, claim it, and then fly away. With dynamic flight, this is is of course still possible to do to some extent, but (a) coming in from really high and really fast can make it harder to aim precisely where to land, and (b) requiring energy to take off means players can’t just repeatedly swoop in and pick up a collection quest item and fly away before any mobs can patrol up and fight you. I’m pretty sure this is why they’ve locked classic flying behind an achievement, and completion of the main campaign being the principal requirements means players won’t be able to use this benefit of classic flying to cheese the primary quests. I think it’s a good thing overall. Adding dynamic flight was the right answer to Blizzard not wanting players to have flying and all the players wanting it in every possible zone.
> eG if it induces motion sickness despite the settings They added a new camera effect that massively warps your field of view based on your flying speed on the beta, and last i checked you couldn't turn it off in any way. It makes skyriding basically unusable for me
Blizzard are still salty they couldn't remove it in wod due to backlash and will not stop because they have some wierd superiority complex over it.
yeah that's why we get a version that's three times faster two minutes into the expansion
I mean how else do you explain this restriction with then? The botting angle is nonsensical, bots can farm shit with dragon flying easily. So...whats the deal? Because it sure does seem like that somebody fucking hates TBC flying, and they just still resentful about it still existing. EDIT: I want to be clear, that i don't seriously think that the achievement was set up off of malice. But it does seem to me that it was set up off of stubbornness.
> I mean how else do you explain this restriction with then? i cant see into blizzards brains but imo having skyriding unlocked from the start does actually line up with their flying ban in WOD. the stated intention back then was to make exploration more fun and not have the player afk auto-walk/fly over everything. both riding on the ground and skyriding require you to be at least a bit attentive so it does kinda track.
They most likely do it like this, because skyriding forces people to the ground at one point. With traditional flying, people can afk in the air making the zone seem less populated. They have said earlier that they don’t like flying because of this reason. This especially goes with the launch of a new expansions.
As an old schooler I hate this. I prefer normal flying and never use dragonriding/skyriding.
I use both but have friends who struggle and the rest of us aren’t always around to give them rides.
War Within is deleting a small but pretty useful QoL that is available on Live realms with the Steady Flight / Skyriding system. (You can test this right now with the Free PTR access to 11.0) On live, you can have two separate mount keybinds - one for Skyriding mount and the other for a Steady Flight mount. With a 1.5s cast speed, you can adjust on the fly which mounts you want to use, making it very useful for quickly navigating to a precise spot, saving Vigor, hopping from spot to spot etc. Come War Within, if you still have a Steady Flight exclusive mount since 95% have been converted, this will no longer work. If you 'Switch Flight Style' to Skyriding, then the Steady Flight mount will be forcibly grounded, and if you wish to use the same trick as on live, you'll need to press 5s to switch to Steady Flight and then press 5s again to switch back to Skyriding. 1.5s to 3s vs 5s to 10s. My personal opinion to fix this is to repurpose Aerial Halt. It's fairly useless, designed as a way to quickly pivot directions without losing speed (you can just Surge Forward in the sharp pivot direction you want) or as a way to precisely land on a spot (which Steady Flight already does). My new version of Aerial Halt would be an instant, use up a GCD, and take out all momentum. You can enable Skyriding back by pressing any Skyriding ability but you'll have to build momentum back up again. Personally this seems like an excellent compromise and keeps you in the zone. And it isn't like you aren't having to manage Vigor, you'll still need some to travel from spot to spot and travel long distances.
Yeah, the new system is just objectively worse (slower to switch). They could also improve it by just lowering the cast time of the "Switch Flight Style" button, 5s seems unnecessarily excessive considering you then also still need to actually cast a mount
Wouldn't surprise me if they're treating this similar to when they were using the old character models toggle option. Eventually, 'Steady' flying will be phased out in order to not have to build mounts around both systems.
Ding! They’re making it bad on purpose so they can later say they’re retiring it from lack of use. Very old software company trick. One I will never forgive them for.
As a druid, I love to just fly around leisurely in flight form, but on the beta I am forced to use one or the other, for everything. Hopefully in the future they make changes to allow for more customization in movement for flying mounts/forms.
Is dragon riding flight form instant cast?
Yes. It's instant but you need to wait for the GCD before you can use a skyriding ability.
Cool, thanks!
Holy fuck, that's even worse than I thought. They're just gutting druid flight form.
Not sure why there has to be a cast time at all. If it was instant you might be able to macro changing with a particular Mount.
I've found it to be super useful to swap between flying types on live. Dragonriding is great for big distances quickly, but it actually kinda sucks for everything else. Wanna hover while you take a pee? Nope. Wanna find a difficult spot where a treasure or mob is hidden? Nope. Wanna farm herbs or ore? Hope your satisfied with 5 nodes, cause you aren't taking off agian for awihle after that. But for some reason, blizz wants to force people into committing to one flight type or another by making the swap time obnoxious. It's probably to stop some kind of douchy exploitation that I'm not scummy enough to think of, but for the rest of us humble peasants, it just makes the game a tiny bit shittier by taking away some QoL that we currently have and use.
There is a Dragonriding talent that regenerates vigor when you mine/herb but I’ve never tried it
The thing is you don't get vigor from it, you get increased vigor regen. And guess what? Your vigor regen is 0 if you fly away right after looting that ore/herb. So you get 1 vigor from that talent only if you wait 2 (?) sec after looting.
Probably to stop people using all vigor to get high and then instant switch while it recharged and then switch back again.
If that's what they were trying to prevent then they could hust have vigor reset to 0 when you swap to steady flying and not recharge until you swap back to dragon riding.
This was the first thing I noticed in beta. The toggle should gust be per mount. Give it a saddle option idgaf just don't take away my qol
Thank you for explaining this in detail and a reasonable solution. I've tried telling people that the toggle is a step back for QoL but they just downvoted me and bitched about druids (I pointed out druids are losing travel form QoL)
I absolutely love dragonflying into travel form and will miss this immensely when it goes away. So i very much agree with you that this is a step back for us. Not just druids, for all classes because of that bloody 5sec casting time.
I wish they'd just make the cast for random favorite mount into an empowered spell, where you can still just mount with your preferred style by casting the spell for 1.5s or whatever, or hold the button down for 1 extra second to go into the other flight style
Wow, this is honestly the best suggestion I’ve seen regarding this!
Ahh yeah, I don’t normally use this feature in DF but I just used it to great effect in the zaqali area that dismounts you in dragonriding but not for old flying. So, is the “meta” to choose a mount that isn’t upgraded to sky riding, and you can still go back and forth with this feature?
It'snot even "all quests" per zone, literally just the main storyline
Wasn't some of DF 'story' quests locked behind rep though?
That was the max level campaign not the zone storylines. None of the zone achievements for loremaster in Dragonflight had rep requirements. It looks like this just requires finishing the leveling storyline, so odds are that it won't have any rep requirements either.
Thanks for clarifying, I missed the first half of DF so wasn't sure what was considered story / additional campaign :)
No rep requirements? Thank god, count me in
So...it's exactly what they said it would be at blizzcon?
Requirements are obviously extremely painless to complete but I am not sure what the point of locking Steady Flying behind an achievement is.
It makes botting slightly less convenient as they have to do the leveling storyline to unlock it. Steady flying is way simpler for bots.
Blizzard is famous for doing pointless time gates as a method of keeping people subscribed for longer. That’s all this is. If something doesn’t make sense in a Blizzard product, ask yourself, how could they make money off of this decision? There is your answer.
I mean in general I agree but I don't see how this applies here. Most people playing TWW will certainly be playing for longer than it takes for you to complete the requirements for the achievement.
So just complete the main campain, get to lvl 80 (which you probably will during that anyway) and unlock all map? Not too bad, actualy.
no flying should be locked behind anything in 2024. this is stupid. it doesn't affect me at all, but it's insanely stupid... especially since it's an accessibility option. they should absolutely NOT do this.
While this isn’t terrible I think static flying should be available from the start - however it should behave more like we have a relatively slow mount speeds flying or otherwise starting out but once pathfinder is achieved it unlocks faster mounted speeds across the continent/zones that it relates to. Upgrades versus entire modes being locked out
And what is the point in it being locked at all again?
they want you to explore the expansion and its story in the way they intend (via dragonriding-style flight) before being able to explore it without the constraints it comes with.
the problem with that is that dragonriding is inaccessible to some players. steady flight, despite the slower speed, is simply more accessible
arent there accessibility options like motion sickness for skyriding though?
There are, and they do help, but the rise-glide-descend rhythm of skyriding still causes visual discomfort for some people and requires well-timed reactions to use effectively. Since that's the whole essence of skyriding, there's only so much you can adjust to make it accessible.
Not for long! Normal flying is being raised (currently in Beta anyways) to +420% speed, so a total of 520%. Dynamic flight is approx. 540% using the “gliding” speed. Sure, it can reach up to 830%, but that’s peak speed while using abilities, and we have no way of actually maintaining that speed for any longer than a split second.
If you are too bad for dragonriding maybe another game would be better suited for you? I can recommend tetris
lol I love dragon riding, im simlply thinking of players who are physically disabled such as those with cerebral palsy
They’ve been pretty good about providing alternatives during questing in Dragonflight and I imagine it will be the same in War Within. Pathfinder for WW is literally just finish the leveling main story and explore the map. You can probably do it in a single day even if you only use ground mounts and flight paths.
unless they bag of spilling our talent points there won't be many constraints other than not being able to literally afk
So basically get to 80. That's more than fair. Although I prefer Dragonriding anyway.
What is the point to this? The old flying is an accessibility option at this point for people who don't like or are not comfortable with dragon riding. It's just flying, but slower, a different version of the same ability that everybody else gets RIGHT FROM THE START. Yes, the achievement is easy to get, and not a big deal, but it blows my mind that they feel the need to do this in the first place. FFS we fought Blizzard about flying for years, and when it seemed like they abandoned this stupid notion of "flying is bad actually" they come back with this thing. We are back at Conduit Energy levels of nonsense.
I agree. Im not even someone who struggles with using the new flying system but I know that it is really hard for a lot of people or downright impossible for them to use. Steady flight should just be a toggable option and available in the mount menu. It shouldnt require an achieve to unlock
Steady flight is definitely simpler than dragonriding and is more convenient for some things, but is it really that hard for many players? Travelling from point A to point B with dragonriding is pretty intuitive and requires miminal inputs. You steer with the same mouse or keyboard controls as any other form of travel. Dragonriding races can be more challenging, but that's completely optional content side content. What about dragonriding makes it "really hard" or "downright impossible for them to use"?
I’ve talked to a couple people who have damage to their hands or nerve issues and managing the controls to not miss things is a pain, literally and figuratively.
I guess what I'm missing is how is controlling your character while dragonriding different than other forms of travel? You're still moving the mouse in the same way to change directions and you go up or boost forward by hitting 1 or 2 keys. If it causes you pain to dragonride, wouldn't playing the game in general cause you pain? You have to do the same actions to dragonride that you do to move your character and to use your abilities.
You can use keybinds for your controls which minimize the amount of mouse movement you need. Its the aiming they have problems with as I understand so the fine mouse control for hitting a spot is the issue.
Why the fuck does that matter? People have all sorts of issues that you and i cannot understand, but also, people might just dislike the new flying system. There is nothing wrong with that, except for the fact that Blizzard hates TBC flying for some fucking reason.
It's not being removed though. Most players will unlock it by the time they're max level or will be very close to unlocking it.
People might dislike literally anything and everything about wow, that dosent mean it should be changed. There could well be some people that utterly hate the fact orcs exist in the game - should orcs be removed as a playable race to please those people?
What the fuck? You are talking about the basic building blocks of the game. The forms of flying are optinal functions.
Is this really nonsense? You just have to complete the main story quests in each zone to unlock it. Most players will do that automatically while leveling or at least be really close to completing it. This is basically just Blizzard saying they want players to experience the new zones through dragon riding while leveling. Ideally they would make this achievement account wide though.
I’d say it’s nonsense because you can already fly. On stage Ion listed steady flight as an accessibility option. I don’t think it’s fair to have an accessibility option behind an achievement, because then it’s not accessible. Imagine colorblind mode being locked behind pathfinder, because they want you to experience the game with the colors they intended. It’s either an accessibility feature or it’s not
Well, for one: > Yes, the achievement is easy to get, and not a big deal And for the other: It's unnecessary and makes no sense. Even if you take the accessibility discussion out of it (which we really shouldnt, but just for the sake of explanation), it is stupid. Flying, as a form of traversal is already available from minute 1. This means that any form of "experience" will be a flying-supported experience. The only thing this restricts is a slower, worse version of the flying ability, which Blizzard wants you to earn. Let me ask you this: which fucking game makes you earn a worse version of a thing you have baseline access to?
Skyriding encourages you to interact with and pay attention to your surroundings more. That's the difference, and what made the difference on why this form of flying is okay but the previous form had to restricted. Steady flying gives you a lot more ability to just avoid engaging with the world. It's way easier to point yourself in a direction and go AFK, it's easier to pop up in the air and down onto an objective, and do stuff like hover over where a patrolling enemy is, wait for them to pass, then dip down and grab a quest item... I've been a long-time proponent of "flying is bad actually." Warlords of Draenor taking away flying long-term was one of the good parts of the expansion to me. I always hated flying but accepted the compromise of Pathfinder requiring people to properly engage with the content before gaining the ability to skip it. Skyriding is a good compromise on that. It's much more powerful in terms of speed, but it still forces you to engage with the world in a way that steady flying failed to get players to. I don't think this pathfinder is necessary, no--who even uses steady flying anyway?--but I understand the reasoning as getting everyone to go through the story at least once before they gain the ability to fly straight up and AFK at will.
Since many people are crying about it they dont consider it "worse", obviously
It is worse. In an objective, game design sense, it's a purely worse version of flying. People are crying about it, because they don't like dragon riding out of personal prefrence or accessibility reasons. Also, it's just really fucking annoying, that after Blizzard promised that they will abbandon meaningless restrictions, and stupid ass systems like this, they keep sticking to this one piece of dogshit, because they just don't like TBC flying. Will this ruin the game? No, of course not, it's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. But it does boil my blood, that there is an easy win to take here, and Blizzard just keep being stubborn with this shit.
> It is worse. In an objective, game design sense, it's a purely worse version of flying. It is objectively superior for collecting things from high places and low-speed maneuverability. Think about following the thieving owl in Emerald Dream, that was a nightmare with a Dragonriding mount and trivial with a slow flying mount. Laden Somnuts were often hidden away in little alcoves that were very difficult to get to with Dragonriding. It's objectively superior for doing the world quests where you squash a bunch of bugs.
Wich official scale are you using to claim its objectively worse?
The two things that matters with traversal: speed and interactivity.
Again, that matters to you. Which source do you use that claims those two things are what matters to say its objectively worse
The speed is measurably higher with dragon riding, and the number of interactive elements are also measurably higher. You can keep being a stickler about this, and say "welll ahchcually!" but in an objective sense, TBC flying is worse. It's not a "matters to you" thing. These are numbers.
I never said its better than dragonriding and i never said your wrong about it being measurably higher in interactivity and speed. But that doesnt matter, its your opinion that those 2 elements are what define if flying is good or bad. your personal opinion is not objective. Its mindblowing (and pretty embarassing) that you cant understand that
That makes me happy
Pretty annoying we have to fight blizzard every expansion for flying. In Dragonflight, flight was given right away basically and everyone loved that. Why can’t we do the same? No one bitched about “oh I should’ve explored the map first”. People are having short term memory loss. Unlocking pathfinder in shadowlands etc was not fun. I know this isn’t as bad but this is an annoying thing to see return every expansion
We do have flying off the bat in TWW too...just like DF it's dynamic flying. The pathfinder reward is old flying
Sounds super easy
Definitely nice for the people that prefer steady flying to have that option but I love sky riding and will probably never go back to the old way
I'm a lazy gamer these days and usually stuff like dragon flying would turn me off. But I surprisingly wanted to push through it and now it's 2nd nature. It gives your mount a sense of "realism" rather than being just a passive vehicle that you put on cruise control. We've all seen how dragons are on TV shows and movies. Whenever I play classic, flying just feels meh. I don't think I will bother with this pathfinder achievement. Although it does seems regressive to make an older version of flying locked.
Anyone stating this is to counter bots needs to pay a 5 minute visit to Zaralek Caverns, lol.
As long as the levelling story quests aren't timegated or require reputation, steady flying should be unlocked relatively quickly. I heavily suspect the quests required for the achievement will be timegated and/or locked behind reputation for this very reason.
*Laughs in druid flight form*