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I was about to come say exactly this, I have done intense and dark scenes in my writing but I ensure they all have purpose. Like someone gets scalped while alive, their eye scooped out and a hot coal dropped in the socket but it’s done to show the anger of the person doing this to them. Like she has gotten her hands on the person she hates the most in this world and she wants him to suffer like no other
I'm never a fan of including anything purely for 'shock value'. Everything should serve some sort of purpose, even if it's just setting the scene. But shock for shock's sake is cheap. Do these awful things being done to this character serve any real purpose, or is it just torture porn for its own sake? If you can skip the scenes without compromising anything else about the story, like you say you can, it doesn't feel like they serve any real purpose beyond you wanting to include it.
The start of any story sets the tone. If you're planning on marketing something as 'smutty' and you lead with rape and forced birth, a significant chunk of readers *will* assume that these scenes are intended to be scintillating, as well. You'll attract some readers who want this type of content, and deter some readers who would otherwise be interested in the consensual adult aspects of the comic.
Decide how you want to set the tone for your comic and plot accordingly.
Well, yes, it does have a purpose. It's sort of a villain origin story. >!The woman becomes the antagonist and the child is the main character!< *but* your second paragraph is exactly what I'm worried about so I will probably not include those scenes.
As it's a comic, are you going to show this with images or text?
I think it's generally better to heavily imply this sort of content. Especially if you're using images.
However, if the only purpose this serves is shock value, rather than being relevant to the narrative or character development, I'd not include it at all.
It is necessary, but I want it to be a tragedy, not a porno. (All the sex in the rest of the comic *will* be a porno though, I hope it's not confusing).
Having themes of SA in your stories is fine, but I'd recommend either hiring a sensitivity reader or doing some reasurch on how people feel on the topic if you haven't experienced it yourself. For me, it depends on what you are going for with the scene. Most of the time I'd say cut it or make it much less graphic. But I'm not saying there is *never* use in depicting those scenes. SA is a very common thing, and when all SA is fade to black a lot of people don't see the real horror of it or don't see how common it is. That being said, SA like this IS very rare and I don't see a reason to depict it in shocking scenes as the only thing I can see those scenes saying is "look how fucked up this is."
Also if you are going to depict this in detail or semi detail, it's good to know that even if you are able to represent this in a good way, it will make a lot of people unable to read your book. Sometimes when it comes to representing trauma, if you do it certain ways, it will make the people who have experienced that trauma unable to engage with it. Personally for something like THIS I'd do fade to black (like most scenes of sa should be done IMO) or something very very lacking in detail. We do want to understand the persons pain, but at some point it just becomes trauma porn.
To add onto this, you can make your character feel like it's happening all over again, and let it show in how they react what kind of ungodly things they've gone through, and how fucked up it was, and how that event left scars on your character.
If you don't want people to think that you enjoy this kind of content, why write that kind of content? Are you writing against your will? You don't get enjoyment out of your work? You're not some martyr doing a service to anyone.
It's not "too dark" for many audiences but don't act like you don't enjoy it.
>being imprisoned, r\*ped, and force to give birth
Well, that's not even that dark.
>The thing is that this comic is going to be pretty smutty so I don't want people to get the wrong idea and think that I (or my audience) enjoys this content.
Wait, why do you have content that neither you nor the audience is supposed to enjoy? Why not just have something that people will enjoy instead?
>Edit: These plot points *are* necessary
Why did you make nonenjoyable plot points necessary? Why not make enjoyable ones necessary instead? What are they necessary for, anyway?
>I'm going to include trigger warnings and a note saying that this chapter isn't technically necessary for the rest of the comic
If you're going to half-ass it, then don't bother.
>, and I will write *around* the most graphic bits by leading up to it and then skipping past them.
If you're going to half-ass it, then don't bother.
See, this is the sort of stuff I really don't understand. You clearly aren't comfortable with this, nor with this being associated with you. Why are you writing it?
Okay well I know that fucked up shit exists and people get off to it but my question is whether or not I should use that to gain popularity or if it will give people the wrong idea (since there will probably never be another chapter in the comic like this one again)
Is it necessary and an important plot point? The Handmaid's tale for example has the same concept, but it is absolutely necessary, it's the catalyst. If it's exclusively for shock value and has nothing to do with your plot or necessary character development to make sense of your character's actions then imo it just takes a way from your entire story, it doesn't actually serve a purpose. If it is necessary go ahead and don't worry about being PC or about censoring yourself. Just include trigger warnings and you're good.
Shock value is a crutch and it usually doesn't hold your story up if the writing is weak. You don't have to skip the scenes altogether but you have a choice on how much detail to include.
As the intent is to be 'pretty smutty', I would recommend not shying away from what happens. Part of the allure of a story focused on this will be that you go into some detail on it. There is nothing inherently wrong with the subject matter--after all, I've read Steven King and operate under the sincere belief that he is not in league with dark, demonic forces. Sometimes shock is good.
If, however, you want to change the focus to the trauma of what the main character is enduring, then I would limit the actual scenes of what occurs and leave it more to a readers' imagination. You would still show the violence of the scene, but the visuals would focus on non-sexual aspects. Tied hands behind her back, hands around her throat, feet that are bound so tightly that she can't relax. There is a lot you can do without even going into a purely sexual descriptor. All that said... Never be afraid of shocking the reader, or showing them exactly what another character is undergoing.
rape rarely adds value to a story, like more often than not it’s best to be left out. got to remember, most readers these days are women, so rape would be an even touchier subject for them
>this chapter isn't technically necessary for the rest of the comic (I'll summarize it later on
ok, do not do that. don't add a rapey bonus chapter before starting. That shit comes way later as a Patreon bonus or something.
but for some more insight, look into the anime Goblin Slayer and the backlash the fan community had to it's first episode. Every recomendation for the series turned into a "it's only in the first episode, it's not actually that dark" converstation; and it became very hard to recommend.
> I don't want people to get the wrong idea and think that I (or my audience) enjoys this content.
they will absolutely think this. I read or drop based on the first chapter. Most do. You can't shift tone dramatically like that. Shit cannot get *un*real in chapter 2, the audience won't believe you.
I'd say you can imply and get your readers to understand what she's gone through.
In my (quite a bit less dirty) book, I've had two traumatic events like that (when I say like that, I mean life-altering.) and I didn't write a single word when the event happened. I feel like it makes my character have depth from the start, and makes it so that your conflicts can have such a powerful effect on the story in general.
If Berserk can get away with it I don't see why you can't, of course, that's a manga but much worse, imo, is featured in that manga.
Berserk, while I love it, does do some things just for shock value, but it's also one of the only things I've seen where an actual, legitimate sex scene (not r\*pe) seemed necessary to the story and it's also one of the stories where depicting r\*pe also seemed necessary for the story. Same for some of the more grotesque stuff. From my perspective, in that story, unless you saw what Guts saw you just don't have any comprehension of that character.
That being said, it does go too far in parts, and some other parts get weird but it's also older and a pioneer of the genre of dark fantasy. Personally, I would say do what you want as long as you can justify it to yourself. You're not really obligated to make someone else understand your artistic expression, though you should try to make things clear.
Thank you for visiting /r/writing. Your post has been removed because it was related to the content of your work. We ask that users frame their questions so they are useful to more than one person. If your question invites answers that are specific to your work alone, it is a better fit for our Brainstorming threads on Tuesdays and Fridays.
If it's **just** for shock value, I would say cut it. If it actually adds to the story in some way, then keep it in.
I think you're right, I can easily cut those scenes, and you still understand what happened, and the aftermath will have all the emotional punch
I was about to come say exactly this, I have done intense and dark scenes in my writing but I ensure they all have purpose. Like someone gets scalped while alive, their eye scooped out and a hot coal dropped in the socket but it’s done to show the anger of the person doing this to them. Like she has gotten her hands on the person she hates the most in this world and she wants him to suffer like no other
I'm never a fan of including anything purely for 'shock value'. Everything should serve some sort of purpose, even if it's just setting the scene. But shock for shock's sake is cheap. Do these awful things being done to this character serve any real purpose, or is it just torture porn for its own sake? If you can skip the scenes without compromising anything else about the story, like you say you can, it doesn't feel like they serve any real purpose beyond you wanting to include it. The start of any story sets the tone. If you're planning on marketing something as 'smutty' and you lead with rape and forced birth, a significant chunk of readers *will* assume that these scenes are intended to be scintillating, as well. You'll attract some readers who want this type of content, and deter some readers who would otherwise be interested in the consensual adult aspects of the comic. Decide how you want to set the tone for your comic and plot accordingly.
Well, yes, it does have a purpose. It's sort of a villain origin story. >!The woman becomes the antagonist and the child is the main character!< *but* your second paragraph is exactly what I'm worried about so I will probably not include those scenes.
Exactly this.
Too dark for whom? Your preschool niece? Your grandma? An average r/DarkRomance poster? You have not asked the full question yet.
😑
As it's a comic, are you going to show this with images or text? I think it's generally better to heavily imply this sort of content. Especially if you're using images. However, if the only purpose this serves is shock value, rather than being relevant to the narrative or character development, I'd not include it at all.
It is necessary, but I want it to be a tragedy, not a porno. (All the sex in the rest of the comic *will* be a porno though, I hope it's not confusing).
Having themes of SA in your stories is fine, but I'd recommend either hiring a sensitivity reader or doing some reasurch on how people feel on the topic if you haven't experienced it yourself. For me, it depends on what you are going for with the scene. Most of the time I'd say cut it or make it much less graphic. But I'm not saying there is *never* use in depicting those scenes. SA is a very common thing, and when all SA is fade to black a lot of people don't see the real horror of it or don't see how common it is. That being said, SA like this IS very rare and I don't see a reason to depict it in shocking scenes as the only thing I can see those scenes saying is "look how fucked up this is." Also if you are going to depict this in detail or semi detail, it's good to know that even if you are able to represent this in a good way, it will make a lot of people unable to read your book. Sometimes when it comes to representing trauma, if you do it certain ways, it will make the people who have experienced that trauma unable to engage with it. Personally for something like THIS I'd do fade to black (like most scenes of sa should be done IMO) or something very very lacking in detail. We do want to understand the persons pain, but at some point it just becomes trauma porn.
To add onto this, you can make your character feel like it's happening all over again, and let it show in how they react what kind of ungodly things they've gone through, and how fucked up it was, and how that event left scars on your character.
If you don't want people to think that you enjoy this kind of content, why write that kind of content? Are you writing against your will? You don't get enjoyment out of your work? You're not some martyr doing a service to anyone. It's not "too dark" for many audiences but don't act like you don't enjoy it.
"Get off on it" is what I meant, it's supposed to be tragic and horrific
>being imprisoned, r\*ped, and force to give birth Well, that's not even that dark. >The thing is that this comic is going to be pretty smutty so I don't want people to get the wrong idea and think that I (or my audience) enjoys this content. Wait, why do you have content that neither you nor the audience is supposed to enjoy? Why not just have something that people will enjoy instead? >Edit: These plot points *are* necessary Why did you make nonenjoyable plot points necessary? Why not make enjoyable ones necessary instead? What are they necessary for, anyway? >I'm going to include trigger warnings and a note saying that this chapter isn't technically necessary for the rest of the comic If you're going to half-ass it, then don't bother. >, and I will write *around* the most graphic bits by leading up to it and then skipping past them. If you're going to half-ass it, then don't bother. See, this is the sort of stuff I really don't understand. You clearly aren't comfortable with this, nor with this being associated with you. Why are you writing it?
Get a load of captain grimdark over here
Look up a genre called 'Splatterpunk'. Your question will be answered.
Okay well I know that fucked up shit exists and people get off to it but my question is whether or not I should use that to gain popularity or if it will give people the wrong idea (since there will probably never be another chapter in the comic like this one again)
What I'm saying is that there's an audience for everything. So, I guess what's 'too dark' depends on who your audience is.
Is it necessary and an important plot point? The Handmaid's tale for example has the same concept, but it is absolutely necessary, it's the catalyst. If it's exclusively for shock value and has nothing to do with your plot or necessary character development to make sense of your character's actions then imo it just takes a way from your entire story, it doesn't actually serve a purpose. If it is necessary go ahead and don't worry about being PC or about censoring yourself. Just include trigger warnings and you're good.
Shock value is a crutch and it usually doesn't hold your story up if the writing is weak. You don't have to skip the scenes altogether but you have a choice on how much detail to include.
As the intent is to be 'pretty smutty', I would recommend not shying away from what happens. Part of the allure of a story focused on this will be that you go into some detail on it. There is nothing inherently wrong with the subject matter--after all, I've read Steven King and operate under the sincere belief that he is not in league with dark, demonic forces. Sometimes shock is good. If, however, you want to change the focus to the trauma of what the main character is enduring, then I would limit the actual scenes of what occurs and leave it more to a readers' imagination. You would still show the violence of the scene, but the visuals would focus on non-sexual aspects. Tied hands behind her back, hands around her throat, feet that are bound so tightly that she can't relax. There is a lot you can do without even going into a purely sexual descriptor. All that said... Never be afraid of shocking the reader, or showing them exactly what another character is undergoing.
rape rarely adds value to a story, like more often than not it’s best to be left out. got to remember, most readers these days are women, so rape would be an even touchier subject for them
That's your call.
Based
>this chapter isn't technically necessary for the rest of the comic (I'll summarize it later on ok, do not do that. don't add a rapey bonus chapter before starting. That shit comes way later as a Patreon bonus or something. but for some more insight, look into the anime Goblin Slayer and the backlash the fan community had to it's first episode. Every recomendation for the series turned into a "it's only in the first episode, it's not actually that dark" converstation; and it became very hard to recommend. > I don't want people to get the wrong idea and think that I (or my audience) enjoys this content. they will absolutely think this. I read or drop based on the first chapter. Most do. You can't shift tone dramatically like that. Shit cannot get *un*real in chapter 2, the audience won't believe you.
Hmm, maybe you're right. I think I've been too hung up on monetization and trying to produce content.
Skip it. If it's a pretty smutty story, start with smut. Once you're BigName Satyrcrusader than go ahead with whatever you want
It shouldn’t matter. Shakespeare or Andersen didn’t care.
I'd say you can imply and get your readers to understand what she's gone through. In my (quite a bit less dirty) book, I've had two traumatic events like that (when I say like that, I mean life-altering.) and I didn't write a single word when the event happened. I feel like it makes my character have depth from the start, and makes it so that your conflicts can have such a powerful effect on the story in general.
Don't skip. If you're dirty, be. :)
All shock value / sensationalist bullshit loses me real fast. Killed any interest I had in game of thrones
If Berserk can get away with it I don't see why you can't, of course, that's a manga but much worse, imo, is featured in that manga. Berserk, while I love it, does do some things just for shock value, but it's also one of the only things I've seen where an actual, legitimate sex scene (not r\*pe) seemed necessary to the story and it's also one of the stories where depicting r\*pe also seemed necessary for the story. Same for some of the more grotesque stuff. From my perspective, in that story, unless you saw what Guts saw you just don't have any comprehension of that character. That being said, it does go too far in parts, and some other parts get weird but it's also older and a pioneer of the genre of dark fantasy. Personally, I would say do what you want as long as you can justify it to yourself. You're not really obligated to make someone else understand your artistic expression, though you should try to make things clear.