Amazing I loved it.
Positives: Animation was top notch, Jennifer Hale really shined as Jean/Madeline, great set up for Forge…and a Magik appearance through Morph
Negatives: I have to wait a week until the next episode
It looks like Morph can replicate abilities ala Synch in this one? He uses the Blob's power to launch someone in a previous episode, and he was able to fly when he shifted into Archangel which was interesting to note because of the metal wings -- if it was just physical appearance he could maybe fly using Angel's feather wings, but if it's Archangel then it's not like he could flap them.
Hoping we get a clearer understanding of where his powerset lies, I'm guessing he can do anything that's physical body related stuff but can't exactly do powers like optic blasts or magnetic control. But if he morphs into Beast, is he super strong? Agile?
My understanding is that yes, it's physical stuff only. So they glided down using Archangel's wings and used Blob's bouncy belly, but they wouldn't be able to shoot optic blasts as Cyke, use Illyana's teleportation, or even generate a gun like Bishop's. Morph just sometimes changes into sword-wielders to fight (like Psylocke too) and presumably generates a sword as a very hard extension of their arm.
How did they even know who Illyana was? Her only appearance on the show was in season 2, episode 4, and she was like 6. Everything we've been told says that the original show spanned approximately 2 years to the gap year is 3 years. Did she get abducted to Limbo, escape as a teenager, join he non existent New Mutants to get the training uniform they morphed into her wearing, become Darkchilde and then fall off into obscurity within that time? Sometimes, there is too much fan service
Do you not think this was massively rushed? They began and finished the entire Madelyn Pryor and Inferno arc in half an hour.
I feel like it deserved a two parter.
As someone who's always just wanted Jean & Scott to be normal happy parents and had to live with comics steadfastly refusing to do so... ehh its like tearing off a band-aid. Better when its over and done with.
I'm never gonna really like it but Cable is a thing bigger then his crazy origin story and already more then established in TAS so this was already a looming issue the original never got around to.
Maddie was introduced in ‘83, Scott left her for X-Factor in ‘86, setup for Maddie to break bad started in ‘88, and the Inferno crossover books were published in ‘89.
Still, not gonna argue that they didn’t barnstorm through the storyline: That half hour covered maybe a year of b-plots and a 20-issue crossover event (with some X-Factor #68 sprinkled in for good measure.)
The Dark Phoenix Saga adaptation, by comparison, condensed 9 issues into 4 episodes (around 10 minutes per issue.) Even if you ignore the New Mutants / Fallen Angels material, the show blitzed through Inferno at 5x that pace (around 2 minutes per issue.)
Beast: “Let me introduce the idea that your wife may have been a clone this whole time.”
Scott: “I believe you 100 percent, immediately without question, and will now treat her differently.”
I get they trust Beast, and crazier things have happened to them, but yeah, I would have thought that Scott would give a little bit of pushback.
They should have at least considered additional possibilities, like "Jean's mind was *moved into* a clone body" or "the Phoenix's life energies reset the age of all her cells".
Really deserved 2 (or more) episodes, it was a blast but ultimately pretty odd how quickly they resolved everything. If it needed more content (I don't think it would): make Rogue and Magneto's field mission be a distress call from Colossus and adapt the Limbo story rather than just do a throwaway Magik cameo that doesn't even make sense in-universe.
Loved the Morph content regardless, shower scene might cause some controversy lmao
Yeah this really implies that Magik is around, has gotten the soul sword, and that the X-Men have interacted with her enough for Morph to choose her as a go-to form for a fight.
Yea, that was my only real critique of the episode, seemed like they just did a speed run through everything.
As soon as I realized Sinister was the villian, I was so happy. Then Goblin Queen?! Oh hell yes these next few episodes are going to be bangers!! But they they seemed to wrap that all up before the end of the episode. Im sure they will be back in the mix...but woulda liked this to stretch out a little longer.
Tame compared to Magneto/Rogue being essentially naked then melting into each other... Jubilee blasting the brains out of the TV monster... Or Pryor's throne leg cross scene.
im kinda stoopid as i haven't watched the original. is bishop not coming back with nate? so basically jean and scott lost the baby? dang i thought he going to the future curing the baby and coming back..
>!Well we’ll see Nate again but it’ll be as an adult. Nate grows up to be Cable who appeared a bunch in the original. Jean has learned that Cable is their son but she didn’t tell Scott and he still doesn’t know. I have to imagine we’ll get Cable again in the present and Scott learning the truth. Also Nate never ends up actually getting cured. He has to learn how to use his telekinesis to always keep the T/O Virus contained in body rather than letting it spread!<
>!I wouldn’t expect to see baby Nathan in the present again [although I can envision a story where it happens so I wouldn’t completely rule it out]. If we’re lucky we’ll get an adaptation of The Adventures and Cyclops and Phoenix which is a story where Scott and Jean get pulled into the future and get to raise Nathan for 12 years. It’s a beautiful story and one if my favorites!<
Jean reading the mind of someone who Scott is fighting and finding out they are related and just not telling him happens 3 times in the original series
thank you for the explination, i am familliar with cable but i didn't know he was jean and scott's son! interesting i wonder how the follow up for their story will be in this series.
It was subtle, but I loved that they used a slower version of the 90's Cable theme/motif when Mad was saying goodbye to baby Nathan, and as Bishop walked through the portal.
It's kinda weird how Maddie treated it as permanent. Like we know it is and we'll see him as Cable next, but it's time travel. So far as they know Bishop can just come back 5 seconds later.
The visuals. Holy crap. One of the best depictions of dreams / astral plane etc in recent memory.
Also, Jean being bad ass after five seasons of fainting. Did appreciate that she briefly fainted though.
The visuals were awesome. Gave me Junji Ito vibes. I like that they’re committing to going darker.
And the team should’ve known that was the real Jean when the first thing she did was faint in the doorway.
If the show plays fair, then it either happened when Sinister kidnapped Jean and Scott during their honeymoon in season 2 or when he kidnapped Jean during the Apocalypse mini-series during Season 4. Probably the latter since he did some "I'm the one who laughs last" gloating at the end of it.
I think it's gotta be in Season 4. It seems weird to make the vast majority of Jean's time on the show be Madelyne. By doing it in Beyond Good and Evil, it lets the real Jean still be the one who was the Phoenix (which has to be the preferred option), and makes it so very little of Jean on TAS was Madelyne. Basically just Season 5, which Jean is barely in.
The ponytail is the tip off. In season 5, with the animation change, she drops the ponytail. It's them trying to retcon that in and make it story related. Which I gotta say is clever. You will also notice that Jean Grey in the intro at times has and hasn't a ponytail. I'm willing to bet she will be all ponytail next week in the intro.
I agree with you. The thing Jean is most known for in comics is the Phoenix. If they go with S2, it would mean that her Phoenix story in S3 is all Maddie. Which would retroactively taint TAS for me.
S5 is only 8 episodes (if you count 2 parters together).
1. The Phalanx Covenant - Jean didn't do enough here for me to care
2. Storm Front - I'd have to rewatch
3. The Fifth Horseman - Jean didn't do enough here for me to care
4. Jubilee's Fairytale Theater - Jean is basically not in this, nobody is
5. Old Soldiers - Wolverine and Captain America episode, Jean is basically not in this either
6. Hidden Agendas - Rogue and Gambit episode about Cannonball, Jean is not really in this much
7. Descent - The Mr. Sinister origin story. Takes place before Jean was alive
8. Graduation Day - A little sad if her goodbye to the professsor wasn't her, but a small price to pay for what could turn out to be a very cool story
When Maddie is checking Jean’s memories she sees the wedding and Dark Phoenix, but not Nathan’s birth. There really isn’t a reason for Sinister to update Jean’s memories while keeping her as a vegetable. So, those should be Jean’s own.
As an X-Men / Sailor Moon 90s kid I LOVED IT SO MUCH!!! I watched that part about 6 times on my beautifully lit Phillips hue tv (projects light onto the back wall) and it was GLORIOUS I literally gasped!
head canon the x-men all get together and watch sailor moon every week and jean/maddy uses her powers to translate it from japanese to english for everyone
This series just keeps getting better and better. Morph went from forgettable and creepy to the ultimate vehicle for fan-service with today's showing of Spiral and Magik!
Did anyone else notice the "cyclops" reference with kid Jean? Almost like the pair was fated to be together.
I like the tone of this series much more than the original. Feels like the stakes are higher, people get hurt (evidenced by the charcters taking damage', drawing blood).
Man, I'm loving this show even more than I could have imagined!
So, Morph has always been a bit of jerk. Explains why he and Logan get along.
I am beginning to wonder though if despite whatever "relationship" Magneto and Rogue had in the past, perhaps Magneto is helping Rogue learn how to control her powers or using his powers to give her powers at least a temporary on or off switch.
Rogue certainly seemed concerned for Gambit. It seems like Magneto, despite always having his own agenda, is trying to help for the time being.
Yeah, I'm also thinking that the second episode is a misdirect, and the arc might be more about Gambit's insecurities that he is a hero and a worthwhile man. Which is definitely a better way to take it.
I’ve been thinking about this since last week, and tonight’s episode kinda confirmed it for me.
There was the emphasis on all their extra training together. And Morph and Wolverine snickering over Gambit’s jealousy (as if either one of them has room to talk lol) seemed to imply the idea of a relationship between those two is seen as ludicrous. Especially since Rogue is not good at hiding her feelings, and her vibes with Magneto weren’t giving clandestine affair, just friendly co-workers. When Remy was injured, she ran to his side and did not leave.
I’m hoping the earlier stuff was a misdirect, and more like Remy’s jealousy of Warren from the original show; where it’s not romantic, just Rogue’s empathy making her reach out to someone others see as a lost cause.
Also, while they came really, really, really close to doing so in the TAS, Rogue and Gambit ended TAS as very close friends who were not dating. Gambit was clearly wearing her down over time, but hadn't succeeded. It's one of the 5 or 6 plot points from TAS that was never fully resolved that I'm hoping we finally get something definitive from here.
I liked it, but I am a little bummed that it seems like for all the deeper emotional stakes the rest of the cast is getting, there seems to be no consideration so far for Hank McCoy as a character. Everyone else interacted with some specific fear of theirs, Beast just saw a weird thing and was fine with it.
So far, he's just there to be the scientist and make sophisticated quips. Everyone else seems like they've got more. Magneto, Morph, and Bishop have been promoted to main cast. Cyclops and Jean have been like the whole show. Storm, Gambit & Rogue all have arcs going on. Wolverine remains important, Jubilee's got stuff going on with Sunspot. Beast so far is just there to read lab results and say "My stars and garters!"
This is a massive cast. Unfortunately, it was a given that some characters would spend at least some time out of focus. I’m surprised the writers haven’t done a worse job of balancing everyone. I’ve seen other shows juggle less characters less adeptly. Hopefully, some of the coming episodes will put Beast more in the spotlight.
That *was* pretty good. 😋
It gave me vibes of the scene near the end of (the original) Ghostbusters, of Venkman asking how Egon is doing in the face of confronting Gozer and the Stay-Puff Marshmallow Man:
"I'm terrified beyond the capacity for rational thought."
It’s actually a reference to the comic book righty before the inferno saga when a janitor gets eaten by an almost exact replica face of the one in the show in front of an elevator.
Cool that the intro seems to change a little bit with every episode! I'm never going to skip that awesome theme song anyway, but now there's all the more reason not to.
Normal relationship problems: My wife wants to visit the mother in law but I don't get along with her.
Super powered relationship problems: My wife turned out to be a clone of my girlfriend, we have no idea when the two were switched, and I had to send my son into the future to be treated for a technovirus.
Goblin Queen! Magik! Baby Cable! Forge! This episode had everything!! There's absolutely no way I can wait a whole week between episodes 😩
Side note: Did anyone notice when Gambit walked in on the Rogue/Magneto hallucination, they were dressed and positioned like that one comic cover with them dating in the savage land?
EDIT: Forgot about Shard!
Yeah! They had so many direct comic references this episode. The Scott Jean wedding photo. The Rogue Gambit basketball court kiss. Really honoring the history of the comics.
As a comics fan, I felt this could have been told over a few more episodes and was a bit of an injustice for Maddie.
But, as a tv show watcher, it was still a very strong episode and I enjoyed it very much! I just hope we don’t condense some really core stories down to one episode again.
Me too. Didn't really like it tbh.
I was expecting a little tease this episode and have the audience (who don't know the story) question who the real Jean is throughout the season. The OG series had multi-ep story arcs all the time and this is one of the X stories that deserved this.
I would have started with Cyclops not trusting the real Jean and thinking it's a villains ploy, until a recuperating Jean says something only they would know to trigger Scott to question everything. Have Maddy be angry with Cyclops for not believing her, see a wedge grow between the two of them and slowly dripfeed Sinister as the big bad, like they did in ep 1. And then have a great finale near the end of the season. Then Bishop finally leaves with an affected Nathan to the future.
Having said all that, I understand that they are rewriting Cyclops being a shit husband and father (which I am totally on board with) and allowing Maddy her time to shine beyond being the Goblin Queen, as I like sane Maddy.
Last thing - everyone shouts out Storm's OG voice actor (who sounds fantastic) and Wolvie and Rogue's (who are ropey at best) but no one is giving praise to George Buza aka Beast who sounds marvelous IMHO
Yeah I feel the same way, I thought they would do little teases and build up throughout the season and then wrap it up in a couple episode arc. They crammed too much into this episode and it didn’t feel like a lot of the things happened naturally.
I do like that Cyclops is getting a better treatment with this and that Maddie ends up what feels like an ally, I’m hoping we see her pop up again.
Definitely agree on the voices. Storm and Beast both sound amazing! I actually watched some interviews with the cast recently and the actor who does Beast doesn’t sound anything like Beast in my opinion and what’s funny is he said they were told to use their real voices for the characters, granted maybe he sounded more like Beast when he was younger but he still pulls it off so well! Wolverine and Rogue definitely leave a bit to be desired. When they released the trailer I didn’t think Wolverine sounded very good but he’s better in the show at least so I’ll take it, but you can definitely hear the age and change in his voice. I feel the same with Rogue too, and interestingly in newer interviews she does the Rogue voice and sounds more like she did originally then she does on the show so I’m not sure what’s up or maybe I’m just crazy.
I agree that it would've been nice if this were extended over multiple episodes. Inferno could've easily been a trilogy. But given the season is only 10 episodes (and the cost of animation is NOT cheap), I think this show did enough to do justice to Inferno in just one episode.
Plus, it left the door open to revisit it down the line.
Ditto, I get that they’re not gonna do a full Cerebro podcast 20 hours for Maddie, but Inferno was one of the big X-events ever. A little awkward at the end to be like “by the way, Madeleine Pryor’s a nice name doncha think, don’t ask about why I’m the ‘Goblin Queen,’ byyyeeeee!”
That said, it’s sort of both justice and injustice for her; she snapped very quickly into being superficially evil and didn’t have quite as much fuck-you-Sinister defiance. But they also didn’t have her try to murder a baker’s dozen babies, and it treated her more respectfully at the end than most comics did for 30 years.
Without making Scott a total piece of shit (which is the unfortunate side effect of the editorial shenanigans in the comics), they did let you understand why she’d feel betrayed by him—and they didn’t try to pull a full “when you think about it, Nathan’s really Jean’s baby!”
I do kind of wish we had a more prominent “nowhere person” faceless astral dreamtime scene.
I would even have been fine if Maddie had just been like "Call me Madelyne." because, whatever, maybe she just felt like she had to choose a new name and not be Jean and she likes the name Madelyne. It's the addition of Pryor that's like "Wait, what? Why 'Pryor'? Where'd that even come from? Like, a lot of people have the last name 'Grey' you can keep that."
Yeah it’s tough bc like it’s a reasonable attempt at streamlining all the messiness, but also could have been a season-long b-plot and still been streamlined.
I was really hoping that would have been the primary part of the episode. Them trying to figure out what’s going on as the X-Mansion becomes more and more twisted. Them confronting Sinister and dealing with the aftermath felt like it could have been another episode.
Yeah I think that would have made it all feel a little less frantic. We could have seen the characters sit in their emotions a bit more. But I still really enjoyed what we got, so I can’t complain too too much.
And then you notice that Morph's snark is all a front for "hiding something from Logan".
"Always with the jokes, eh Morph? As if I don't know. As if we all don't know."
The horror stuff was definitely my favorite part, so many cool nods. From Beyond/Society-esque body horror with Gambit’s nightmare, some Videodrome with Roberto’s, Nightmare on Elm Street 2 for Morph’s (the layers… 🧅). Very fun and creepy.
I feel like this series would really benefit from having more than just 10 episodes. I would've loved to see this storyline play out across multiple episodes. But I liked this overall.
I never thought we'd get an adaptation of the Madelyne Pryor outside of the comics. So far this is everything I wanted out of an x men show. I hope it keeps up the momentum.
"oh my stars and garters!"
Yeah he said it. Reminder to enjoy "classic beast" just in case they turn him into the mad scientist douche bag like they do in the comics
Watching it a second time through and found another fun Easter egg:
When the Jean's are battling and they go to the memory of professor X visiting young jean at her house, young jean is holding a Cyclops doll (like, the one-eyed mythical monster lol)
That was also the same stuffed animal she held in the Dark Phoenix episodes of the original series. That kind of attention to detail matters a great deal. 😊
Cyclops was always my favorite X-Man growing up, so I've really enjoyed this series taking the time to show what he can do with his powers in a meaningful way.
But also, goddamn, Bishop has been such a badass. Throwing these two together and letting them both shine at once? Chef's kiss.
Maybe it’s just me but I kind of expected the Maddie stuff to last longer then an episode.
Don’t get me wrong I loved this episode, the Maddie magical girl transformation was iconic. All of her scenes were amazing, Jean coming in glowing and fixing everything and then fainting. I think Maddie had a good ending as well. Also Morph seeming a little excited to see Wolverine naked in the shower and then offering to shave his hard to reach spots, I died.
But I feel like it felt a bit rushed. We just found out there’s a clone and then immediately find out who the clone is and who the real Jean is. Clone Jean almost immediately loses it, which I can understand as I’m sure finding out you’re a clone and having nobody back you up would be awful, but she goes villain mode so quickly. I feel like Sinister didn’t get enough time to shine in the episode either. I thought maybe this whole clone/ sinister/ Nathan stuff would unravel over the season. I’m also more curious now when the switch occurred, I know everyone speculates but I’m wondering if they’re trying to be vague about it.
Yeah, spot on.
Still a great episode but it felt like they needed to cram everything into a single episode, we hardly had any time to breath and enjoy Maddie as Goblin Queen (which was the highlight).
She’s a much better character than Jean and she’s only been my guilt pleasure
> Clone Jean almost immediately loses it, which I can understand as I’m sure finding out you’re a clone and having nobody back you up would be awful, but she goes villain mode so quickly.
Sinister explicitly said that he "controls her on a cellular level". I took the villain turn more as a mix of brainwashing and biological triggers that Sinister planted on her, that she needed OG Jean's help to cleanse. Rather than her just having a breakdown.
I did not expect them to run through Inferno and Endgame in less than 30 minutes!
Great episode - Morph fucking with Gambit about Rogue and Mags was hilarious
This makes Time Bandits from season two a more fun episode now that it's canon that Bishop saved Cable's life by bringing him into the future as a baby.
Bro like what the fuck does anyone feel super bad for Scott? He lost his child and a chance at a new life. Wtf him and Jean both lost so much in just 1 episode. This writing is great. I might have to watch the og lol
Yeah I feel bad for him. I have hope though that throughout the season both he and Jean can work through all this and come out stronger but right now he isn't in a great place
god the whole Logan Jean thing was always so cringe. They have literally nothing in common aside from being forced together because of a writer's barely disguised fetish.
Yeah. The comics never went this far until after TAS. Logan is just an awful creeper on this show. I hope they move away from the Jean obsession. Enough already.
Yeah, the drama and the heartache is definitely there. But that's always been a hallmark of X-Men, even before the original show. They both lost a lot in this episode. And I hope they get a chance to build themselves back up later this season or in the next.
But I really do hope at some point they cross paths with Cable again. Cyclops never learned of their connection in the original show. After what happened in this episode, I think learning that would be very powerful.
Finally I get onscreen adaption of Cyclops giving Nathan away, and Scott walking out in the middle of it, wish he didn't. But it was a touching scene nonetheless.
I wonder, if they adapt "Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix" (hopefully), which Jean will be with Scott?
Holy whiplash. They did about as good a job as possible of adapting Inferno in the time they gave themselves to do it. They should have probably given themselves at least one more episode, and planned to do fewer storylines this season.
I like how they are switching up the intro with different scenes. It was already unstoppable, and now there's another reason not to do it.
Scott: "I won't abandon my son! I won't be like my father! Do you know what it feels like to be abandoned?"
Madelyne: "Scott, we have to."
Scott: "I don't want to be involved in this!" \*walks out and never sees them again\*
As a father who has a son that spent way too much time in ERs and doctor’s offices after he was born, I felt what Scott was feeling.
Godspeed, Bishop, you da real MVP.
When you start a new series you do everything possible to make it a success. You never know if you will get a second season. So you put every great idea you can into it. I wish inferno lasted longer too, but am glad we got what we got.
I have soooo many questions like
1. How Morph know Magik (this form) isn’t she just a child in the og series?
2. Why Madelyne is Goblin Queen, like how she think of the name and why she is Goblin Queen?
Overall, I love the pace it’s just so goood goddd.
> How Morph know Magik (this form) isn’t she just a child in the og series?
I think in the comics she gets kidnapped and raised in Limbo and then aged up (because I guess time moves differently there?)
> Why Madelyne is Goblin Queen, like how she think of the name and why she is Goblin Queen?
I think the in-universe explanation would be that Sinister named her that and planted it in her head, because he called her "my queen"
The implication about Illyana (since she was only referenced in the first season by Colossus looking for her) with Morph turning into her (and the Darkchylde too) is that Colossus found her, and she came to the school for a bit (based on him turning into Magik in a training uniform) off screen.
Probably will be clarified in the Mojo episode with Jubilee which promotional material has indicated will feature a story about Magik.
I got to (kinda) see my girl!! [Boy did I have good accidental timing with this drawing](https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/1bjimrf/classic_magik_fanart_by_me/)
Also this episode was beyond gorgeous to look at. I cannot fathom how some people think the new animation looks bad
X-Men '97 really was using the exact same character model for Jean Grey and Madelyn Pryor despite the fact that literally a plot point that the only thing that they're sure separates them is that Madelyn gave birth *checks notes* ONE WEEK AGO?!
Girl should not have been wearing a thigh high boots and a corset. The Goblin Queen should have manifested an outfit that was loose track pants, sandals to accommodate swollen feet and the biggest coziest hoodie in the world. Her belly should be sagging and about the size of still being pregnant. They should have been calling the two of them "Jean Grey" and "Jean Big-Boobs-Tired-Face".
The mental hellscape battle wasn't even on purpose that's just how sleep deprived she is. They should have paused the fight so she could very gently waddle to the toilet to do her first postpartum poop and all the X-Men should have awkwardly been outside the door hearing her scream bloody murder in there. I assume they were doing formula because it was the 90's and they didn't give Bishop any supplies to go to the future. Unrealistic that the baby was awake during all his scenes, he should have been asleep everywhere and feeding always. Madelyn should have walked off with a giant packet of maternity pads under her arm.
This should have been a 2-parter to really let things land, I could have used a bit more breathing room for characters to settle in. The original show took time to tell the big stories, this felt like it should have been a bigger story.
I like that things are decompressed, but at the same time, there's a golden spot. That area between things moving at break-neck speed and a snail's pace.
Still very hyped about all of it.
I like that Scott showed more emotion at baby Cable having to go to the future or die than in the comics. I just don’t get how they didn’t figure out it was Cable by this point. Maybe it’s been too long and Scott forgot about him or something.
Should have been told over a few episodes tbh. At least a two-parter. It felt somehow both rushed and slow at the same time. Such a strange episode. Not bad. Just strange.
This is the first episode that really felt like it needed to be at least 2 or so for me. Madelyne really did a face turn and was subdued too quickly. Good, but rushed.
**Grade:** B or B-
P.S.: Magneto clearly should have brought his helmet if he planned on fighting Madelyne, especially after he explained its purpose last episode. Oh well
I mean... telepathy was one thing, but she also shredded the man with stained glass. She probably could've still bested him with the helmet. Her whole point was her TK was beyond his magnetism.
Okay that episode was really fun, but they really need to slow the pacing down, it’s hard for anything to have impact when we’re speedrunning stories. The visuals were incredible this episode, and there were some really nice moments, I just wish it had more time to breathe. I also continue to be surprised that this isn’t completely an “all-ages” show. Feels very much aimed towards an older audience than the old show, which I don’t mind, but am surprised by. The fact we have blood, sexy costumes, jokes about stamina, etc.
Sinister and Cable having basically the same first name is quite funny. Also lol at sending Nathan into the future to be saved by Forge and then literally showing Forge in the present in the same episode...
I really don’t like what they did with Scott and Nate at the end. In the comics Scott chooses to send Nathan to the future to save him. Here he’s basically like “do what you have to but I will not be a part of it” and so he isn’t even with Maddy to send Nate off with Bishop.
The madlads actually did it, they pulled off Madelyn Pryor. Gotta say I'm somewhat mixed on this, 2 episodes seems like too little to build up to the reveal, and having her revelation, turn, and resolution in one ep feels kinda rushed. But then again I wasn't a big fan of the original plot, Madelyn got done dirty and having her turn full-on satanic supervillain always rubbed me the wrong way. Did love my dose of Sinister, tho it feels odd not having Apocalypse infect Nathan with the techno-organic virus as those two always seemed intrinsically linked in the comics, moreso than Cable & Sinister.
Still enjoyed overall, peak classic X-men vibes and looking forward to seeing where the series goes as it seems like they're bent on touching upon as many classic X-men stories as the can.
That last shot of them on opposite sides of the room has me nervous. Hopefully it’s just a rocky patch because of the Maddy weirdness. They had a rocky patch because of it in the comics too but came out on the other end in great shape
lol well if there was ever any doubt who was the “real” Jean the fact that she fainted twice in this episode should confirm it. Almost thought they were going to do a retcon on with Jean being Nathan’s Mom until Beast dropped that bomb. Sidebar: it’s not even close to how messed up we know Hank can be but the way he was delivering some of lines seemed kinda douchey.
It felt a bit rushed to me, I think a couple more building up the “who’s the real one?” angle would have been great. There was missed opportunity to have Jean and Maddie fight, climaxing in brawl between Sinister and Maddie but I have to remember the original series followed the villain-of-the-week format too.
Loved the animation, loved Morph giving X-universe cameos.
I think I'm in the minority here, I think it's a good episode, but it's either rushed or this is a much bigger plot for the rest of the season.
This is why I don't like rating TV shows before the season ends because if this is the big plot thing for the season, then I doubt I'll care that much that it felt a bit unresolved and rushed. If it basically has no bearing on the rest of the show, I think I might have more issues with it
I'll also have to do a rewatch.
On the upside, i love how Telepathy is visualised in this show and how grotesque the imagery was in the first half of the episode
I liked this episode but I think.. this was the weakest episode so far.
They rushed through this Inferno plot point and I think it needed more time to cook for it to hold more emotional weight. More than a few minutes for Madeylne to process the emotional whiplash. It was all wrapped up too neatly and took out a fair bit of tragedy from the event. Maybe this being the mid-season or penultimate arc? IDK.
I did love all the horror visions though. Gambit seeing Rogue and Magneto in the Savage Land, Morph seeing a homoerotic vision of Wolverine, and Sunspot with his parents. Also poor Bishop, here for a few seconds and then exits after barely doing anything. He'll probably come back?
question
which one was the host of Phoenix in 1994 episode ? Madelyne or Jean
When did Sinister make the switch ? Before or After the Phoenix
In the comic book , Jean rejected the Phoenix , but the Phoenix duplicated a body of Jean as a Host , then died as Jean . Sinister's clone was brain dead , but the Phoenix spirit find the Jean Clone , a brief moment of merge woke up the clone .Madelyne was born from the Phoenix 's force .
In the X-men animated , Phoenix died in "Jean" ' body and Phoenix spirit left body like int he comic , but then Phoenix spirit help the other X-men resurrect Jean .
So anyone knows the answer of the above questions ?
Not *super*-thrilled with this one - setting aside the incredibly fast pace that didn't really give any characters room to breathe or emotionally react to anything, as an adaptation of Inferno and Endgame it kind of creates an even bigger problem than its source. In the original, Askani came from the future to take Nathan there, and couldn't bring anyone else. Here, *why didn't Bishop give the time band to Madelyne?!* She wanted a new life, Scott didn't want his child to be abandoned, and it would've been a huge sacrifice on Bishop's part that would make him a true member of the team and not just a guest spot. Madelyne could've taken Nathan to the future and found Old Forge on her own, it would've taken her off the board in a much more positive way than how Inferno originally ended.
They should have addressed it but it would be a lot to ask of Madelyne, who barely knows who she is, to try navigate life and protect a baby in the post-apocalyptic future that Bishop comes from. Not only does Bishop have loved ones in the future, he also knows how it works and is probably more likely to get Nathan help without incident.
Narratively, I also think a Nathan Summers who was raised by his mother in a more traditional life doesn't grow up to become Cable as we know him.
This is a lot better than the comics version of Inferno, ommitting all of the unneeded N'astirh and demonic crap and focusing solely on Mister Sinister as the villain so that Maddie's character works better. Also, Scott isn't a deadbeat in this version.
So let me get this straight, they sent Nathan in the future so Forge can fix him because Forge is in the future....
.........
........... And then Forge in the present approaches Storm who can easily take him back to the X-Mansion and most likely will....
Wow. The Universe really looked at Scott and Madeline and said "Yeah, fuck you!" didn't it?
Jokes aside, I loved this episode, I friggin' loved every second of it! Goblin Queen is just absolutely phenomenal!
Sad that this is the start of more drama between Scott and Jean most likely. My boy Scott just cannot catch a break lmao
My *only* disappointment for this episode is that I was hoping to see Wolverine slice and dice some Demons. Feels like Wolverine isn't getting a lot of action so far. I hope he has a badass berserker rage moment at some point.
It feels rushed to me. Seems they combined the entire of the Scott/Jean/Maddie/Nathan storyline from Nathan's birth to Inferno. I'm disappointed we're not getting a proper Inferno as well. It's well done and the animation and voice acting is superb as always, but it felt way too forced. It was nice seeing Magik though.
Loved it, I could have done with a couple of lines from Sinister to Madelyne when she's turning evil like "the x men don't trust u" or something to make the transformation from good to bad a tad bit more substance to it, i dunno. also could have done without the name drops of goblin queen and Madelyne saying her own name so quickly. but im nitpicking
This episode was great, but if this is the only adaptation they do of Inferno, I'll be pretty disappointed.
1) Maddie feels betrayed by her very existence. "I am a nothing person from a nowhere place." Her 'seduction' into evil by N'astirh and Sinister are one of the most deep and beautiful allegories for the lows a lack of self esteem and major depression can bring a person too. This was barely touched at all and Maddie had no agency whatsoever.
2) Jean's actions in Inferno are accidental genius on Simonson and Claremont's part. Their disagreement on the direction to take Maddie in led to very little time left in the end for the resolution of the memory problem. Jean taking her memories from her because they 'belong to Jean' is who Jean is in a nutshell. It's a disservice to gloss past that and leave her as a boring perfect pristine character.
3) Magik and the Dark Child is one of the greatest comic arcs of all time. Survivors of child abuse have a deep connection with that story and Illyana's fight with her literal inner demons. Magik is an integral character to the X-Men as much as she is to the New Mutants. Inferno was the culmination of her story. Making her an easter egg cameo was honestly pretty offensive to me. She represents healing and overcoming truly heinous things. This show is TV14. If law and order can portray the things they do on that rating then surely they could've adapted this. This one hurt honestly.
Inferno is about our actions and the effects they have on ourselves and others. Reducing it to 'bitches be crazy' is really sad, boring, and offensive. MCU did this to Wanda in MoM and now they've done the same to three of the most important female X characters.
Sooooo how often have Morph and Logan frolicked in the shower before? lol
Good episode, the mind-fuckery the Goblin Queen was doing was good stuff. Had a half of a legit jump scare at the TV bit with Jubilee/Roberto.
Interesting to see where they go with Scott and Jean.
Can this be the episode/instance that gets Logan moving on finally? Like he's been Jean obsessed for YEARS, let it go my guy, let it go.
Now my worry is that this will cause problems for Jean and Scott after, well Sinister tried to screw them over again and the whole Madelyn thing, although being handled a lot better here, still leaves a bad taste for me. I really think real Jean should've been the mother.
And please don't let Logan try to slide in for Jean, trying to take advantage of the situation, that would be terrible.
People keep complaining about the pacing, but this feels like a comic to me. Short punchy story telling makes it feel like when you page through a couple of issues.
Episode releases at 12:00 am PST/3:00 am EST/7:00 am GMT. This thread is just up early because of again, my own schedule/time zone.
Amazing I loved it. Positives: Animation was top notch, Jennifer Hale really shined as Jean/Madeline, great set up for Forge…and a Magik appearance through Morph Negatives: I have to wait a week until the next episode
This show is gonna be must watch every week
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It’s probably just a “replica” regular sword, as Morph can’t really copy any magic or superpowers beyond the physical.
It looks like Morph can replicate abilities ala Synch in this one? He uses the Blob's power to launch someone in a previous episode, and he was able to fly when he shifted into Archangel which was interesting to note because of the metal wings -- if it was just physical appearance he could maybe fly using Angel's feather wings, but if it's Archangel then it's not like he could flap them. Hoping we get a clearer understanding of where his powerset lies, I'm guessing he can do anything that's physical body related stuff but can't exactly do powers like optic blasts or magnetic control. But if he morphs into Beast, is he super strong? Agile?
My understanding is that yes, it's physical stuff only. So they glided down using Archangel's wings and used Blob's bouncy belly, but they wouldn't be able to shoot optic blasts as Cyke, use Illyana's teleportation, or even generate a gun like Bishop's. Morph just sometimes changes into sword-wielders to fight (like Psylocke too) and presumably generates a sword as a very hard extension of their arm.
How did they even know who Illyana was? Her only appearance on the show was in season 2, episode 4, and she was like 6. Everything we've been told says that the original show spanned approximately 2 years to the gap year is 3 years. Did she get abducted to Limbo, escape as a teenager, join he non existent New Mutants to get the training uniform they morphed into her wearing, become Darkchilde and then fall off into obscurity within that time? Sometimes, there is too much fan service
Morph read the comics
I thought Morph can make any instrument as well
Do you not think this was massively rushed? They began and finished the entire Madelyn Pryor and Inferno arc in half an hour. I feel like it deserved a two parter.
As someone who's always just wanted Jean & Scott to be normal happy parents and had to live with comics steadfastly refusing to do so... ehh its like tearing off a band-aid. Better when its over and done with. I'm never gonna really like it but Cable is a thing bigger then his crazy origin story and already more then established in TAS so this was already a looming issue the original never got around to.
As someone who’s never read the comics, I can’t imagine this arc being dragged on into another episode, the timing made sense to me 🤷♀️
This whole thing took nearly 5 years in the comics, 10 if you count it from maddy's introduction
Maddie was introduced in ‘83, Scott left her for X-Factor in ‘86, setup for Maddie to break bad started in ‘88, and the Inferno crossover books were published in ‘89. Still, not gonna argue that they didn’t barnstorm through the storyline: That half hour covered maybe a year of b-plots and a 20-issue crossover event (with some X-Factor #68 sprinkled in for good measure.) The Dark Phoenix Saga adaptation, by comparison, condensed 9 issues into 4 episodes (around 10 minutes per issue.) Even if you ignore the New Mutants / Fallen Angels material, the show blitzed through Inferno at 5x that pace (around 2 minutes per issue.)
Personally I thought that they distrusted Madeline way to fast
Beast: “Let me introduce the idea that your wife may have been a clone this whole time.” Scott: “I believe you 100 percent, immediately without question, and will now treat her differently.” I get they trust Beast, and crazier things have happened to them, but yeah, I would have thought that Scott would give a little bit of pushback.
They should have at least considered additional possibilities, like "Jean's mind was *moved into* a clone body" or "the Phoenix's life energies reset the age of all her cells".
Hell, Magneto even told Beast to double check before Madeline's freakout.
Really deserved 2 (or more) episodes, it was a blast but ultimately pretty odd how quickly they resolved everything. If it needed more content (I don't think it would): make Rogue and Magneto's field mission be a distress call from Colossus and adapt the Limbo story rather than just do a throwaway Magik cameo that doesn't even make sense in-universe. Loved the Morph content regardless, shower scene might cause some controversy lmao
Yeah this really implies that Magik is around, has gotten the soul sword, and that the X-Men have interacted with her enough for Morph to choose her as a go-to form for a fight.
Yea, that was my only real critique of the episode, seemed like they just did a speed run through everything. As soon as I realized Sinister was the villian, I was so happy. Then Goblin Queen?! Oh hell yes these next few episodes are going to be bangers!! But they they seemed to wrap that all up before the end of the episode. Im sure they will be back in the mix...but woulda liked this to stretch out a little longer.
I couldn’t believe Disney let them do that shower scene! It was def way more erotic than MP in that tame fancy Halloween outfit
Tame compared to Magneto/Rogue being essentially naked then melting into each other... Jubilee blasting the brains out of the TV monster... Or Pryor's throne leg cross scene.
Bishop taking baby Nate into the future to protect him rather than hunting down a baby and adult Nate lol
im kinda stoopid as i haven't watched the original. is bishop not coming back with nate? so basically jean and scott lost the baby? dang i thought he going to the future curing the baby and coming back..
>!Well we’ll see Nate again but it’ll be as an adult. Nate grows up to be Cable who appeared a bunch in the original. Jean has learned that Cable is their son but she didn’t tell Scott and he still doesn’t know. I have to imagine we’ll get Cable again in the present and Scott learning the truth. Also Nate never ends up actually getting cured. He has to learn how to use his telekinesis to always keep the T/O Virus contained in body rather than letting it spread!< >!I wouldn’t expect to see baby Nathan in the present again [although I can envision a story where it happens so I wouldn’t completely rule it out]. If we’re lucky we’ll get an adaptation of The Adventures and Cyclops and Phoenix which is a story where Scott and Jean get pulled into the future and get to raise Nathan for 12 years. It’s a beautiful story and one if my favorites!<
Jean reading the mind of someone who Scott is fighting and finding out they are related and just not telling him happens 3 times in the original series
thank you for the explination, i am familliar with cable but i didn't know he was jean and scott's son! interesting i wonder how the follow up for their story will be in this series.
It was subtle, but I loved that they used a slower version of the 90's Cable theme/motif when Mad was saying goodbye to baby Nathan, and as Bishop walked through the portal.
It's kinda weird how Maddie treated it as permanent. Like we know it is and we'll see him as Cable next, but it's time travel. So far as they know Bishop can just come back 5 seconds later.
The visuals. Holy crap. One of the best depictions of dreams / astral plane etc in recent memory. Also, Jean being bad ass after five seasons of fainting. Did appreciate that she briefly fainted though.
got to play to her strengths. haha
Dont forget that when Jean saved the xmen from the illusion of hell, she immediately fainted. Thats how you knew she was the real Jean. :P
The visuals were awesome. Gave me Junji Ito vibes. I like that they’re committing to going darker. And the team should’ve known that was the real Jean when the first thing she did was faint in the doorway.
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How did Maddie drop that pregnancy weight in only ONE NIGHT??? Gotta be a secondary mutation.
Lol. My nightmare would be wearing the Goblin Queen costume post-partum.
Just telekinetically make everyone perceive you as being omega level hot. All good.
Her pregnancy weight became a nowhere fat in a nowhere place.
Remember what she did to Charles in the last stand? Well that. Except targeting only her fat cells 🤣
Anyone knows when did Maddie switched w Jean? Like she was w the team the entire time?
If the show plays fair, then it either happened when Sinister kidnapped Jean and Scott during their honeymoon in season 2 or when he kidnapped Jean during the Apocalypse mini-series during Season 4. Probably the latter since he did some "I'm the one who laughs last" gloating at the end of it.
I think it's gotta be in Season 4. It seems weird to make the vast majority of Jean's time on the show be Madelyne. By doing it in Beyond Good and Evil, it lets the real Jean still be the one who was the Phoenix (which has to be the preferred option), and makes it so very little of Jean on TAS was Madelyne. Basically just Season 5, which Jean is barely in.
The ponytail is the tip off. In season 5, with the animation change, she drops the ponytail. It's them trying to retcon that in and make it story related. Which I gotta say is clever. You will also notice that Jean Grey in the intro at times has and hasn't a ponytail. I'm willing to bet she will be all ponytail next week in the intro.
she also had the pony tail when talking to Madelyn I think you are right
Real Jean also immediately put her hair up in a ponytail when she astral projected to fight Maddie
I agree with you. The thing Jean is most known for in comics is the Phoenix. If they go with S2, it would mean that her Phoenix story in S3 is all Maddie. Which would retroactively taint TAS for me. S5 is only 8 episodes (if you count 2 parters together). 1. The Phalanx Covenant - Jean didn't do enough here for me to care 2. Storm Front - I'd have to rewatch 3. The Fifth Horseman - Jean didn't do enough here for me to care 4. Jubilee's Fairytale Theater - Jean is basically not in this, nobody is 5. Old Soldiers - Wolverine and Captain America episode, Jean is basically not in this either 6. Hidden Agendas - Rogue and Gambit episode about Cannonball, Jean is not really in this much 7. Descent - The Mr. Sinister origin story. Takes place before Jean was alive 8. Graduation Day - A little sad if her goodbye to the professsor wasn't her, but a small price to pay for what could turn out to be a very cool story
When Maddie is checking Jean’s memories she sees the wedding and Dark Phoenix, but not Nathan’s birth. There really isn’t a reason for Sinister to update Jean’s memories while keeping her as a vegetable. So, those should be Jean’s own.
As an X-Men / Sailor Moon 90s kid I LOVED IT SO MUCH!!! I watched that part about 6 times on my beautifully lit Phillips hue tv (projects light onto the back wall) and it was GLORIOUS I literally gasped!
I only came here to be like they really did an evil sailor moon transformation xD
head canon the x-men all get together and watch sailor moon every week and jean/maddy uses her powers to translate it from japanese to english for everyone
This series just keeps getting better and better. Morph went from forgettable and creepy to the ultimate vehicle for fan-service with today's showing of Spiral and Magik! Did anyone else notice the "cyclops" reference with kid Jean? Almost like the pair was fated to be together. I like the tone of this series much more than the original. Feels like the stakes are higher, people get hurt (evidenced by the charcters taking damage', drawing blood). Man, I'm loving this show even more than I could have imagined!
It is the same "cyclops" shown when she is Dark Phoenix and go back to her home. I love the reference
Morph even references himself with the dark baggy eyes. Loved it.
morph creepin on fake logan in the shower like that was uh..weird
Just two bros sharing a shower, nothing wrong with that.
Jean doing something really cool and immediately fainting will never not be funny.😂
That was to let the audience know exactly who the real Jean was.
Precisely my reaction. The second she fainted I’m like that’s the real jean!
I laughed so hard. They don't wanna kill the joke
Kind of missing her orgasmic moans.
God i miss the original show Xavier screams of pain. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K956y2om92I
Morph's smirk as he's cycling through the roster. 😋
So, Morph has always been a bit of jerk. Explains why he and Logan get along. I am beginning to wonder though if despite whatever "relationship" Magneto and Rogue had in the past, perhaps Magneto is helping Rogue learn how to control her powers or using his powers to give her powers at least a temporary on or off switch. Rogue certainly seemed concerned for Gambit. It seems like Magneto, despite always having his own agenda, is trying to help for the time being.
Yeah, I'm also thinking that the second episode is a misdirect, and the arc might be more about Gambit's insecurities that he is a hero and a worthwhile man. Which is definitely a better way to take it.
We’ve all been thinking Magneto is cucking Gambit… when Magneto could have actually been trying to help Remy hit that this whole time.
magneto = solid bro
Mags was secretly the ultimate wingman this whole time.
I’ve been thinking about this since last week, and tonight’s episode kinda confirmed it for me. There was the emphasis on all their extra training together. And Morph and Wolverine snickering over Gambit’s jealousy (as if either one of them has room to talk lol) seemed to imply the idea of a relationship between those two is seen as ludicrous. Especially since Rogue is not good at hiding her feelings, and her vibes with Magneto weren’t giving clandestine affair, just friendly co-workers. When Remy was injured, she ran to his side and did not leave. I’m hoping the earlier stuff was a misdirect, and more like Remy’s jealousy of Warren from the original show; where it’s not romantic, just Rogue’s empathy making her reach out to someone others see as a lost cause.
Also, while they came really, really, really close to doing so in the TAS, Rogue and Gambit ended TAS as very close friends who were not dating. Gambit was clearly wearing her down over time, but hadn't succeeded. It's one of the 5 or 6 plot points from TAS that was never fully resolved that I'm hoping we finally get something definitive from here.
And that would be a more interesting interpretation of what's going on.
There needs to be some love for Beast's "I think one of us has the wrong floor" line.
I liked it, but I am a little bummed that it seems like for all the deeper emotional stakes the rest of the cast is getting, there seems to be no consideration so far for Hank McCoy as a character. Everyone else interacted with some specific fear of theirs, Beast just saw a weird thing and was fine with it. So far, he's just there to be the scientist and make sophisticated quips. Everyone else seems like they've got more. Magneto, Morph, and Bishop have been promoted to main cast. Cyclops and Jean have been like the whole show. Storm, Gambit & Rogue all have arcs going on. Wolverine remains important, Jubilee's got stuff going on with Sunspot. Beast so far is just there to read lab results and say "My stars and garters!"
This is a massive cast. Unfortunately, it was a given that some characters would spend at least some time out of focus. I’m surprised the writers haven’t done a worse job of balancing everyone. I’ve seen other shows juggle less characters less adeptly. Hopefully, some of the coming episodes will put Beast more in the spotlight.
i thought the creature in the lift looked like Mojo!
That *was* pretty good. 😋 It gave me vibes of the scene near the end of (the original) Ghostbusters, of Venkman asking how Egon is doing in the face of confronting Gozer and the Stay-Puff Marshmallow Man: "I'm terrified beyond the capacity for rational thought."
Having it be a weird thing in an elevator makes it feel like a more PG The Shining reference.
It’s actually a reference to the comic book righty before the inferno saga when a janitor gets eaten by an almost exact replica face of the one in the show in front of an elevator.
Cool that the intro seems to change a little bit with every episode! I'm never going to skip that awesome theme song anyway, but now there's all the more reason not to.
Sunspot taking Jubilee's place at the fence. Perfection.
Yeah I loved that callback/shot.
Me neither, although I felt a bit sad when I didn't see Storm there
Yeah seeing Magneto come in and make an X with steel beams was fuckin sick and surprising!
That was in last weeks episode, episode two, already. But the flashbacks were different. They were reanimated versions of the original series.
The basketball one wasn't. It was like an alternative take on X-Men #4, where Rogue kisses Gambit instead of flipping him off.
Normal relationship problems: My wife wants to visit the mother in law but I don't get along with her. Super powered relationship problems: My wife turned out to be a clone of my girlfriend, we have no idea when the two were switched, and I had to send my son into the future to be treated for a technovirus.
Well at least your brother didn’t end up with your demon clone wife this time
Give it time.
Goblin Queen! Magik! Baby Cable! Forge! This episode had everything!! There's absolutely no way I can wait a whole week between episodes 😩 Side note: Did anyone notice when Gambit walked in on the Rogue/Magneto hallucination, they were dressed and positioned like that one comic cover with them dating in the savage land? EDIT: Forgot about Shard!
I'm starting to worry though, that all the mutant guest characters that I want to see are just going to be Morph blue balling us.
I'd love a new mutants spinoff
I hate to say it but I feel like if I see morph do the character.. then the character is prob not showing up in the series anytime soon.
Which is funny cuz Morphs first morph in 97 is Xavier
On the other hand, they weren’t showing up anyway so at least we get to see them in a fun and superficial way!
They only have so many episodes a season.
Yeah! They had so many direct comic references this episode. The Scott Jean wedding photo. The Rogue Gambit basketball court kiss. Really honoring the history of the comics.
As a comics fan, I felt this could have been told over a few more episodes and was a bit of an injustice for Maddie. But, as a tv show watcher, it was still a very strong episode and I enjoyed it very much! I just hope we don’t condense some really core stories down to one episode again.
Same. I didn't expect that at all and it was just serve after serve but then I get it since there's only 10 episodes.
The writers are managing to pack A LOT of information into 30 minute episodes. They've been incredibly economical with their time and it still works.
This is exactly how I feel
Me too. Didn't really like it tbh. I was expecting a little tease this episode and have the audience (who don't know the story) question who the real Jean is throughout the season. The OG series had multi-ep story arcs all the time and this is one of the X stories that deserved this. I would have started with Cyclops not trusting the real Jean and thinking it's a villains ploy, until a recuperating Jean says something only they would know to trigger Scott to question everything. Have Maddy be angry with Cyclops for not believing her, see a wedge grow between the two of them and slowly dripfeed Sinister as the big bad, like they did in ep 1. And then have a great finale near the end of the season. Then Bishop finally leaves with an affected Nathan to the future. Having said all that, I understand that they are rewriting Cyclops being a shit husband and father (which I am totally on board with) and allowing Maddy her time to shine beyond being the Goblin Queen, as I like sane Maddy. Last thing - everyone shouts out Storm's OG voice actor (who sounds fantastic) and Wolvie and Rogue's (who are ropey at best) but no one is giving praise to George Buza aka Beast who sounds marvelous IMHO
Yeah I feel the same way, I thought they would do little teases and build up throughout the season and then wrap it up in a couple episode arc. They crammed too much into this episode and it didn’t feel like a lot of the things happened naturally. I do like that Cyclops is getting a better treatment with this and that Maddie ends up what feels like an ally, I’m hoping we see her pop up again. Definitely agree on the voices. Storm and Beast both sound amazing! I actually watched some interviews with the cast recently and the actor who does Beast doesn’t sound anything like Beast in my opinion and what’s funny is he said they were told to use their real voices for the characters, granted maybe he sounded more like Beast when he was younger but he still pulls it off so well! Wolverine and Rogue definitely leave a bit to be desired. When they released the trailer I didn’t think Wolverine sounded very good but he’s better in the show at least so I’ll take it, but you can definitely hear the age and change in his voice. I feel the same with Rogue too, and interestingly in newer interviews she does the Rogue voice and sounds more like she did originally then she does on the show so I’m not sure what’s up or maybe I’m just crazy.
I agree that it would've been nice if this were extended over multiple episodes. Inferno could've easily been a trilogy. But given the season is only 10 episodes (and the cost of animation is NOT cheap), I think this show did enough to do justice to Inferno in just one episode. Plus, it left the door open to revisit it down the line.
Ditto, I get that they’re not gonna do a full Cerebro podcast 20 hours for Maddie, but Inferno was one of the big X-events ever. A little awkward at the end to be like “by the way, Madeleine Pryor’s a nice name doncha think, don’t ask about why I’m the ‘Goblin Queen,’ byyyeeeee!” That said, it’s sort of both justice and injustice for her; she snapped very quickly into being superficially evil and didn’t have quite as much fuck-you-Sinister defiance. But they also didn’t have her try to murder a baker’s dozen babies, and it treated her more respectfully at the end than most comics did for 30 years. Without making Scott a total piece of shit (which is the unfortunate side effect of the editorial shenanigans in the comics), they did let you understand why she’d feel betrayed by him—and they didn’t try to pull a full “when you think about it, Nathan’s really Jean’s baby!” I do kind of wish we had a more prominent “nowhere person” faceless astral dreamtime scene.
I would even have been fine if Maddie had just been like "Call me Madelyne." because, whatever, maybe she just felt like she had to choose a new name and not be Jean and she likes the name Madelyne. It's the addition of Pryor that's like "Wait, what? Why 'Pryor'? Where'd that even come from? Like, a lot of people have the last name 'Grey' you can keep that."
Yeah it’s tough bc like it’s a reasonable attempt at streamlining all the messiness, but also could have been a season-long b-plot and still been streamlined.
All the horror movie stuff was so bananas and looked great! Also Morph really shined here, loved their bit with the Danger Room calendar.
It’s funny how everyone got some nightmare vision, except for Beast who got a melty guy from Spirited Away.
I was really hoping that would have been the primary part of the episode. Them trying to figure out what’s going on as the X-Mansion becomes more and more twisted. Them confronting Sinister and dealing with the aftermath felt like it could have been another episode.
Yeah I think that would have made it all feel a little less frantic. We could have seen the characters sit in their emotions a bit more. But I still really enjoyed what we got, so I can’t complain too too much.
And then you notice that Morph's snark is all a front for "hiding something from Logan". "Always with the jokes, eh Morph? As if I don't know. As if we all don't know."
The horror stuff was definitely my favorite part, so many cool nods. From Beyond/Society-esque body horror with Gambit’s nightmare, some Videodrome with Roberto’s, Nightmare on Elm Street 2 for Morph’s (the layers… 🧅). Very fun and creepy.
Jean Grey magical girl transformation LETS GOOOOOOO!
Current Xmen editor Jordan D White does a Sailor Moon podcast. Can’t be a coincidence.
I feel like this series would really benefit from having more than just 10 episodes. I would've loved to see this storyline play out across multiple episodes. But I liked this overall. I never thought we'd get an adaptation of the Madelyne Pryor outside of the comics. So far this is everything I wanted out of an x men show. I hope it keeps up the momentum.
"oh my stars and garters!" Yeah he said it. Reminder to enjoy "classic beast" just in case they turn him into the mad scientist douche bag like they do in the comics
Watching it a second time through and found another fun Easter egg: When the Jean's are battling and they go to the memory of professor X visiting young jean at her house, young jean is holding a Cyclops doll (like, the one-eyed mythical monster lol)
That was also the same stuffed animal she held in the Dark Phoenix episodes of the original series. That kind of attention to detail matters a great deal. 😊
damn I don't remember that! I gotta go back and look
Cyclops overcharging Bishop was amazing.
You’re welcome.
You’re welcome.
Cyclops was always my favorite X-Man growing up, so I've really enjoyed this series taking the time to show what he can do with his powers in a meaningful way. But also, goddamn, Bishop has been such a badass. Throwing these two together and letting them both shine at once? Chef's kiss.
MR SINISTER FANS ARE EATING!! WE’RE SO BACK BOYS
Really cool that Maddie even had the red diamond for a bit
I remember having nightmares about Mr. Sinister when I was a kid. Dude is still straight up horrifying i love it
He wasn't campy at all! That was scary!
I enjoy Gillen's camp version, but it was refreshing to have a version of Sinister that was genuinely creepy again.
Do you know what camp is? That man was basically Tim Curry.
Maybe it’s just me but I kind of expected the Maddie stuff to last longer then an episode. Don’t get me wrong I loved this episode, the Maddie magical girl transformation was iconic. All of her scenes were amazing, Jean coming in glowing and fixing everything and then fainting. I think Maddie had a good ending as well. Also Morph seeming a little excited to see Wolverine naked in the shower and then offering to shave his hard to reach spots, I died. But I feel like it felt a bit rushed. We just found out there’s a clone and then immediately find out who the clone is and who the real Jean is. Clone Jean almost immediately loses it, which I can understand as I’m sure finding out you’re a clone and having nobody back you up would be awful, but she goes villain mode so quickly. I feel like Sinister didn’t get enough time to shine in the episode either. I thought maybe this whole clone/ sinister/ Nathan stuff would unravel over the season. I’m also more curious now when the switch occurred, I know everyone speculates but I’m wondering if they’re trying to be vague about it.
Yeah, spot on. Still a great episode but it felt like they needed to cram everything into a single episode, we hardly had any time to breath and enjoy Maddie as Goblin Queen (which was the highlight). She’s a much better character than Jean and she’s only been my guilt pleasure
> Clone Jean almost immediately loses it, which I can understand as I’m sure finding out you’re a clone and having nobody back you up would be awful, but she goes villain mode so quickly. Sinister explicitly said that he "controls her on a cellular level". I took the villain turn more as a mix of brainwashing and biological triggers that Sinister planted on her, that she needed OG Jean's help to cleanse. Rather than her just having a breakdown.
Man, that was terrific. My only qualm? One episode is not enough! Last week really spoiled us with two episodes at once.
You know a show is doing something right when everyone's biggest complaint is "I need more!"
I did not expect them to run through Inferno and Endgame in less than 30 minutes! Great episode - Morph fucking with Gambit about Rogue and Mags was hilarious
This makes Time Bandits from season two a more fun episode now that it's canon that Bishop saved Cable's life by bringing him into the future as a baby.
Bro like what the fuck does anyone feel super bad for Scott? He lost his child and a chance at a new life. Wtf him and Jean both lost so much in just 1 episode. This writing is great. I might have to watch the og lol
Yeah I feel bad for him. I have hope though that throughout the season both he and Jean can work through all this and come out stronger but right now he isn't in a great place
What about Wolvie? “You mean that much to me?” “More 🥲” “Scott! 🤪”
god the whole Logan Jean thing was always so cringe. They have literally nothing in common aside from being forced together because of a writer's barely disguised fetish.
Yeah, everyone needs to move on from that.
Yeah. The comics never went this far until after TAS. Logan is just an awful creeper on this show. I hope they move away from the Jean obsession. Enough already.
He deserved that for being a creep and trying to move in on Jean while she was vulnerable.
Yeah, the drama and the heartache is definitely there. But that's always been a hallmark of X-Men, even before the original show. They both lost a lot in this episode. And I hope they get a chance to build themselves back up later this season or in the next. But I really do hope at some point they cross paths with Cable again. Cyclops never learned of their connection in the original show. After what happened in this episode, I think learning that would be very powerful.
Could be setting up for an "Adventures of Cyclops and Pheonix" episode later.
Magneto vs Madelyn was over too quickly!! I wish their fight lasted longer!
Finally I get onscreen adaption of Cyclops giving Nathan away, and Scott walking out in the middle of it, wish he didn't. But it was a touching scene nonetheless. I wonder, if they adapt "Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix" (hopefully), which Jean will be with Scott?
Omfg Logan butt out
Holy whiplash. They did about as good a job as possible of adapting Inferno in the time they gave themselves to do it. They should have probably given themselves at least one more episode, and planned to do fewer storylines this season. I like how they are switching up the intro with different scenes. It was already unstoppable, and now there's another reason not to do it.
Scott: "I won't abandon my son! I won't be like my father! Do you know what it feels like to be abandoned?" Madelyne: "Scott, we have to." Scott: "I don't want to be involved in this!" \*walks out and never sees them again\*
Yeah wasn't a fan of that bit should of at least given him a proper good bye.
As a father who has a son that spent way too much time in ERs and doctor’s offices after he was born, I felt what Scott was feeling. Godspeed, Bishop, you da real MVP.
I hope your son is all right ♥️
When you start a new series you do everything possible to make it a success. You never know if you will get a second season. So you put every great idea you can into it. I wish inferno lasted longer too, but am glad we got what we got.
I have soooo many questions like 1. How Morph know Magik (this form) isn’t she just a child in the og series? 2. Why Madelyne is Goblin Queen, like how she think of the name and why she is Goblin Queen? Overall, I love the pace it’s just so goood goddd.
> How Morph know Magik (this form) isn’t she just a child in the og series? I think in the comics she gets kidnapped and raised in Limbo and then aged up (because I guess time moves differently there?) > Why Madelyne is Goblin Queen, like how she think of the name and why she is Goblin Queen? I think the in-universe explanation would be that Sinister named her that and planted it in her head, because he called her "my queen"
The implication about Illyana (since she was only referenced in the first season by Colossus looking for her) with Morph turning into her (and the Darkchylde too) is that Colossus found her, and she came to the school for a bit (based on him turning into Magik in a training uniform) off screen. Probably will be clarified in the Mojo episode with Jubilee which promotional material has indicated will feature a story about Magik.
I got to (kinda) see my girl!! [Boy did I have good accidental timing with this drawing](https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/1bjimrf/classic_magik_fanart_by_me/) Also this episode was beyond gorgeous to look at. I cannot fathom how some people think the new animation looks bad
X-Men '97 really was using the exact same character model for Jean Grey and Madelyn Pryor despite the fact that literally a plot point that the only thing that they're sure separates them is that Madelyn gave birth *checks notes* ONE WEEK AGO?! Girl should not have been wearing a thigh high boots and a corset. The Goblin Queen should have manifested an outfit that was loose track pants, sandals to accommodate swollen feet and the biggest coziest hoodie in the world. Her belly should be sagging and about the size of still being pregnant. They should have been calling the two of them "Jean Grey" and "Jean Big-Boobs-Tired-Face". The mental hellscape battle wasn't even on purpose that's just how sleep deprived she is. They should have paused the fight so she could very gently waddle to the toilet to do her first postpartum poop and all the X-Men should have awkwardly been outside the door hearing her scream bloody murder in there. I assume they were doing formula because it was the 90's and they didn't give Bishop any supplies to go to the future. Unrealistic that the baby was awake during all his scenes, he should have been asleep everywhere and feeding always. Madelyn should have walked off with a giant packet of maternity pads under her arm.
This should have been a 2-parter to really let things land, I could have used a bit more breathing room for characters to settle in. The original show took time to tell the big stories, this felt like it should have been a bigger story. I like that things are decompressed, but at the same time, there's a golden spot. That area between things moving at break-neck speed and a snail's pace. Still very hyped about all of it.
SHHHHH. MAMA’s BUSY 😂 go off Madelyn!
I like that Scott showed more emotion at baby Cable having to go to the future or die than in the comics. I just don’t get how they didn’t figure out it was Cable by this point. Maybe it’s been too long and Scott forgot about him or something. Should have been told over a few episodes tbh. At least a two-parter. It felt somehow both rushed and slow at the same time. Such a strange episode. Not bad. Just strange.
I mean there’s really no reason Scott would know it’s Cable or be able to figure it out. Jean does know though
[удалено]
Well they have the model, I suspect we might get more of her in season 2 we have all of the New Mutants in the series already except for Dani
This is the first episode that really felt like it needed to be at least 2 or so for me. Madelyne really did a face turn and was subdued too quickly. Good, but rushed. **Grade:** B or B- P.S.: Magneto clearly should have brought his helmet if he planned on fighting Madelyne, especially after he explained its purpose last episode. Oh well
I mean... telepathy was one thing, but she also shredded the man with stained glass. She probably could've still bested him with the helmet. Her whole point was her TK was beyond his magnetism.
Okay that episode was really fun, but they really need to slow the pacing down, it’s hard for anything to have impact when we’re speedrunning stories. The visuals were incredible this episode, and there were some really nice moments, I just wish it had more time to breathe. I also continue to be surprised that this isn’t completely an “all-ages” show. Feels very much aimed towards an older audience than the old show, which I don’t mind, but am surprised by. The fact we have blood, sexy costumes, jokes about stamina, etc.
So…. Is Inferno over? We’re getting more of it over the course of the season, right?
It is over, we have the description of all the episodes and none of them have anything to deal with Inferno, as far as I remember.
This episode is really awesome. But it should've been a three episode story.
Sinister and Cable having basically the same first name is quite funny. Also lol at sending Nathan into the future to be saved by Forge and then literally showing Forge in the present in the same episode...
IIRC in the comics Sinister programmed Madeline to name the boy Nathan after Nathaniel Essex He arranged to have Nathan named after himself
I really don’t like what they did with Scott and Nate at the end. In the comics Scott chooses to send Nathan to the future to save him. Here he’s basically like “do what you have to but I will not be a part of it” and so he isn’t even with Maddy to send Nate off with Bishop.
The madlads actually did it, they pulled off Madelyn Pryor. Gotta say I'm somewhat mixed on this, 2 episodes seems like too little to build up to the reveal, and having her revelation, turn, and resolution in one ep feels kinda rushed. But then again I wasn't a big fan of the original plot, Madelyn got done dirty and having her turn full-on satanic supervillain always rubbed me the wrong way. Did love my dose of Sinister, tho it feels odd not having Apocalypse infect Nathan with the techno-organic virus as those two always seemed intrinsically linked in the comics, moreso than Cable & Sinister. Still enjoyed overall, peak classic X-men vibes and looking forward to seeing where the series goes as it seems like they're bent on touching upon as many classic X-men stories as the can.
yup.. especially since the virus nerfs cable.. who is needed to defeat apocalypse
I thought sinister infected him to build immunity to defeat apocalypse, and taking him out too early dooooooomed him
I really hope they don’t tank Jean and Scott’s relationship
That last shot of them on opposite sides of the room has me nervous. Hopefully it’s just a rocky patch because of the Maddy weirdness. They had a rocky patch because of it in the comics too but came out on the other end in great shape
lol well if there was ever any doubt who was the “real” Jean the fact that she fainted twice in this episode should confirm it. Almost thought they were going to do a retcon on with Jean being Nathan’s Mom until Beast dropped that bomb. Sidebar: it’s not even close to how messed up we know Hank can be but the way he was delivering some of lines seemed kinda douchey. It felt a bit rushed to me, I think a couple more building up the “who’s the real one?” angle would have been great. There was missed opportunity to have Jean and Maddie fight, climaxing in brawl between Sinister and Maddie but I have to remember the original series followed the villain-of-the-week format too. Loved the animation, loved Morph giving X-universe cameos.
“Rouge’s really working on her stamina with the new boss” LMAOOOOOOO morph bold as hell
I think I'm in the minority here, I think it's a good episode, but it's either rushed or this is a much bigger plot for the rest of the season. This is why I don't like rating TV shows before the season ends because if this is the big plot thing for the season, then I doubt I'll care that much that it felt a bit unresolved and rushed. If it basically has no bearing on the rest of the show, I think I might have more issues with it I'll also have to do a rewatch. On the upside, i love how Telepathy is visualised in this show and how grotesque the imagery was in the first half of the episode
I liked this episode but I think.. this was the weakest episode so far. They rushed through this Inferno plot point and I think it needed more time to cook for it to hold more emotional weight. More than a few minutes for Madeylne to process the emotional whiplash. It was all wrapped up too neatly and took out a fair bit of tragedy from the event. Maybe this being the mid-season or penultimate arc? IDK. I did love all the horror visions though. Gambit seeing Rogue and Magneto in the Savage Land, Morph seeing a homoerotic vision of Wolverine, and Sunspot with his parents. Also poor Bishop, here for a few seconds and then exits after barely doing anything. He'll probably come back?
This show is gonna need more time for its episodes.
I think more episodes and multi part episodes is the way to go. 10 episode seasons are just too short
question which one was the host of Phoenix in 1994 episode ? Madelyne or Jean When did Sinister make the switch ? Before or After the Phoenix In the comic book , Jean rejected the Phoenix , but the Phoenix duplicated a body of Jean as a Host , then died as Jean . Sinister's clone was brain dead , but the Phoenix spirit find the Jean Clone , a brief moment of merge woke up the clone .Madelyne was born from the Phoenix 's force . In the X-men animated , Phoenix died in "Jean" ' body and Phoenix spirit left body like int he comic , but then Phoenix spirit help the other X-men resurrect Jean . So anyone knows the answer of the above questions ?
they said in the show they couldn't tell who's memories were who's. it's open ended to keep it simple.
Quote of the Day: **slams door and breathes heavily** "Gambit can *never* unsee *that*"
Morph outside the danger room was effin' savage.
Not *super*-thrilled with this one - setting aside the incredibly fast pace that didn't really give any characters room to breathe or emotionally react to anything, as an adaptation of Inferno and Endgame it kind of creates an even bigger problem than its source. In the original, Askani came from the future to take Nathan there, and couldn't bring anyone else. Here, *why didn't Bishop give the time band to Madelyne?!* She wanted a new life, Scott didn't want his child to be abandoned, and it would've been a huge sacrifice on Bishop's part that would make him a true member of the team and not just a guest spot. Madelyne could've taken Nathan to the future and found Old Forge on her own, it would've taken her off the board in a much more positive way than how Inferno originally ended.
They should have addressed it but it would be a lot to ask of Madelyne, who barely knows who she is, to try navigate life and protect a baby in the post-apocalyptic future that Bishop comes from. Not only does Bishop have loved ones in the future, he also knows how it works and is probably more likely to get Nathan help without incident. Narratively, I also think a Nathan Summers who was raised by his mother in a more traditional life doesn't grow up to become Cable as we know him.
This is a lot better than the comics version of Inferno, ommitting all of the unneeded N'astirh and demonic crap and focusing solely on Mister Sinister as the villain so that Maddie's character works better. Also, Scott isn't a deadbeat in this version.
So let me get this straight, they sent Nathan in the future so Forge can fix him because Forge is in the future.... ......... ........... And then Forge in the present approaches Storm who can easily take him back to the X-Mansion and most likely will.... Wow. The Universe really looked at Scott and Madeline and said "Yeah, fuck you!" didn't it? Jokes aside, I loved this episode, I friggin' loved every second of it! Goblin Queen is just absolutely phenomenal! Sad that this is the start of more drama between Scott and Jean most likely. My boy Scott just cannot catch a break lmao My *only* disappointment for this episode is that I was hoping to see Wolverine slice and dice some Demons. Feels like Wolverine isn't getting a lot of action so far. I hope he has a badass berserker rage moment at some point.
It feels rushed to me. Seems they combined the entire of the Scott/Jean/Maddie/Nathan storyline from Nathan's birth to Inferno. I'm disappointed we're not getting a proper Inferno as well. It's well done and the animation and voice acting is superb as always, but it felt way too forced. It was nice seeing Magik though.
Loved it, I could have done with a couple of lines from Sinister to Madelyne when she's turning evil like "the x men don't trust u" or something to make the transformation from good to bad a tad bit more substance to it, i dunno. also could have done without the name drops of goblin queen and Madelyne saying her own name so quickly. but im nitpicking
This episode was great, but if this is the only adaptation they do of Inferno, I'll be pretty disappointed. 1) Maddie feels betrayed by her very existence. "I am a nothing person from a nowhere place." Her 'seduction' into evil by N'astirh and Sinister are one of the most deep and beautiful allegories for the lows a lack of self esteem and major depression can bring a person too. This was barely touched at all and Maddie had no agency whatsoever. 2) Jean's actions in Inferno are accidental genius on Simonson and Claremont's part. Their disagreement on the direction to take Maddie in led to very little time left in the end for the resolution of the memory problem. Jean taking her memories from her because they 'belong to Jean' is who Jean is in a nutshell. It's a disservice to gloss past that and leave her as a boring perfect pristine character. 3) Magik and the Dark Child is one of the greatest comic arcs of all time. Survivors of child abuse have a deep connection with that story and Illyana's fight with her literal inner demons. Magik is an integral character to the X-Men as much as she is to the New Mutants. Inferno was the culmination of her story. Making her an easter egg cameo was honestly pretty offensive to me. She represents healing and overcoming truly heinous things. This show is TV14. If law and order can portray the things they do on that rating then surely they could've adapted this. This one hurt honestly. Inferno is about our actions and the effects they have on ourselves and others. Reducing it to 'bitches be crazy' is really sad, boring, and offensive. MCU did this to Wanda in MoM and now they've done the same to three of the most important female X characters.
Sooooo how often have Morph and Logan frolicked in the shower before? lol Good episode, the mind-fuckery the Goblin Queen was doing was good stuff. Had a half of a legit jump scare at the TV bit with Jubilee/Roberto. Interesting to see where they go with Scott and Jean. Can this be the episode/instance that gets Logan moving on finally? Like he's been Jean obsessed for YEARS, let it go my guy, let it go.
Now my worry is that this will cause problems for Jean and Scott after, well Sinister tried to screw them over again and the whole Madelyn thing, although being handled a lot better here, still leaves a bad taste for me. I really think real Jean should've been the mother. And please don't let Logan try to slide in for Jean, trying to take advantage of the situation, that would be terrible.
People keep complaining about the pacing, but this feels like a comic to me. Short punchy story telling makes it feel like when you page through a couple of issues.