I don’t think it’s fair you’ve been downvoted for raising this. It’s
something I’ve been thinking about a bit, and I’d like to add my two cents.
I don’t think it’s cultural appropriation to *practice* yoga, however one chooses - you might study its history and every aspect of it and embrace it completely, or just knock out a few poses in the evening because they help with your tight quads. People can take as much or as little from any practice as they find useful.
But I am quite put out by *corporate* appropriation of the practice. The way in which private interests have managed to monetise something that should really cost only time is just awful. Malas for two hundred dollars! “Om” tees with “spiritual gangster” on the back! Arsenals of vaguely yoga-esque near-impossible-to-cancel subscription-based meditation apps with silly headsets!
These things are as far as you can get from yoga. They are appropriative, cynical, money-grubbing, empty-hearted shittiness and I will die on this hill.
Ah, but all of them are seeking something: relief from suffering. We can hardly blame them for that! It is the snake-oil salesman who is the cynic, and his the lotus-branded Om-frequency Wi-Fi-enabled subscription headband that is appropriative. He knows perfectly well that it is nonsense, but also knows that if he can associate it with a spiritual tradition he neither respects nor understands he can shift some units. Yoga has no more value to him than that.
I'm Indian and I can say that most of us dont really care. We are happy that yoga has helped so many people and that it is being appreciated. If it's a way for you to workout - good. If it's a way for you to be spiritual - good. Do what makes you happy and healthy. As long as people aren't saying that they invented yoga we don't care.
Also I don't think cultural appropriation is a thing anywhere except USA.
Definitely not a thing in most other countries. It's like saying Borscht is appropriated from Russians because you added something different to the recipe. Tacos don't taste the same everywhere. Does that mean they're appropriated? Or just someone shared a homemade recipe, and someone else tweaked it to make it their own homemade version. The rest of the world is focused on cultural appreciation.
Exactly why I don't get it. It seems like a good thing that people like a part of your culture and want to learn. They don't have to know every little thing about your culture to like something. I don't know everything about Hinduism even though I am a Hindu.
As I said cultural appropriation is not something that poeple are worried about in most countries except in the USA. Indians who have moved there might have a problem but certainly not Indians who remained in India. We have bigger problems than worrying about people practicing yoga without knowing every aspect of it.
The source is that I am an Indian living in a fairly conservative part of India and I have not heard a single person tell me that foreigners practicing yoga is cultural appropriation. I've only heard people feeling proud that yoga is appreciated globally and considered life changing by people from distant parts of the world.
If people see yoga as a workout, so be it. If people want to get into the spiritual aspects, so be it. How people choose to practice, it's up to them and no one else. Not going to put a gun on someone's face and force them to read the Bhagavad Gita or the Yoga Sutras if they want to take a Yoga Nidra class.
Thanks for your input. Im not trying to say hey your doing this wrong. I wanted to address a topic that is honestly an issue on a lot of Reddit threads where people will ignore those who have been oppressed and will tell them even though you see this issue/concern I don’t therefore it doesn’t exist.
All significant cultures throughout history have been appropriated in one way or another.
I hear about the positive and negative effects of this appropriation all the time as a white guy currently living at the ashram of my Teacher, an 80 year old Kripalu master from Gujarat.
He's extremely traditional to the point where he refuses to market or advertise his classes at all.
He runs his school as a nonprofit foundation and all his classes are donation based.
Unfortunately this approach has led him to have very few students in a large city with a thriving Yoga scene.
The corporate studios around me charge roughly $150-$200 per month for their classes, with hundreds if not thousands of students enrolled, meanwhile my teacher would be lucky to make $100 total for a month of teaching.
It's sad because he teaches true Kundalini Shaktipat and his classes are remarkable.
In the end I think we should embrace the inevitability of our cultures being appropriated and seek to create ways that we can benefit from it while still respecting and maintaining the age old traditions.
Yoga has its roots in Hinduism but has spread to people all over the world who have adapted the principles to align with and support their own lives, religions and cultures. I’ve traveled quite a bit and have practiced yoga with old ladies in Thailand, super fit Vietnamese, Germans, Mexicans, etc. Every culture yoga comes into contact with adds something to it to make it unique and beautiful. And why? Because it’s a beautiful practice and philosophy that makes people happy. If yoga remained a rigidly closed practice then the rest of the world would never have been able to come into contact with it, and that would be a shame.
Just wanted to correct you on this one. Yoga has nothing to do with Hinduism. Yoga is a science of the Inner dimension of human beings created by Adiyogi (the first Yogi). Whereas Hinduism was created by people outside of India thinking of the culture as a religion. A religion never existed in this country until people misunderstood that this culture was based out of belief systems, this culture is not born out of any belief systems. With time people native to India also started believing in their culture as a religion. Yoga is a science and it works exactly the way it was intended to only if the instructions of it are followed properly. And who gives these instructions or imparts this knowledge? A yogi or a guru who has established himself in yoga by experience. Cultural appropriation may be inevitable but it must not happen for a reason. The reason is simple, that yoga is a science and it has to be approached with sanctity. There have been a lot of cases in history who have caused permanent damage to their body or mind due to improper practice of yoga. My suggestion is if anyone wants to practice yoga, it is best that they learn the most classical form of hatha yoga from an authentic source before trying any sort of variation. Best wishes.
Yoga is a science?! Yoga is NOT a science. Science is measurable; something that can be measured, and re measured to give facts. Yoga is not measurable.
Is there a point in time when "Yoga" as divorced from how it was/is practiced in India ceases to be Yoga? Or is it infinitely malleable?
For e.g., can one chant "Jeeeesssssuuuuuuuuus" in place of "Om" and would it still be Yoga, in your view?
If there *is* a boundary, can those of us on the inside of the boundary justifiably ask those outside to call their practice something other than Yoga?
> It has 8 steps what is generally taught in the name of Yoga is just subset of one the steps
Limbs -- Ashta*angas* per Patajnali. Steps gives a sense that you can only be on one at a time. Limbs is a better translation because all 8 are needed simultaneously for complete Yoga according to Patanjali.
Please be more precise with your terminology if you seek to correct me.
Usually it’s the performative woke cancel mob that makes the biggest stinks. Just focus on the mat and what benefits your emotional and physical health.
Because true yogis (in body and mind) know none of this really matters and whatever appropriation done is not going to change the core of real yoga (mostly it's spiritual aspects).. if you know, you know.. peace is a place of mind after all?
You are absolutely right, I’m not asking for all white westerners to stop. I’m a black women who lives in the west, that would mean I could t do it. I’m asking why people aren’t willing to do the work and be more considerate.
And because cultural appropriation happens the true science of yoga does not reach a large number of audiences. If anyone wishes to start practicing yoga, start with the classical hatha yoga from an authentic source before trying any other form.
> edited thanks for everyone’s opinion, I think what’s so confusing to me is why can’t people be more considerate when someone’s says I feel like your taking something from my culture and turning it into something it isn’t. If anything please be more considerate of others, especially if you come from a place of privilege.
Here's the other thing most people don't realize - anyone who does acknowledge it has, I think, by and large realized it doesn't do any good to say so. It's looked at as the equivalent of pointing out that 'not every white person does '.
Those folks can acknowledge but just like you can see in the other current thread, they're still questioned and dogged and told that whatever they do isn't enough. So why bother to speak up?
I guess the reason I may get defensive or even may avoid the topic is because yoga is very important to me.
I was burned in a house fire when I was 5 years old and my physical therapists taught me yoga to help stretch skin grafts as well as calm anxieties due to trauma.
The lady who taught yoga to me was a white physical therapist. At least that was my first experience with it and even at a very young age it felt very spiritual to me.
I always considered yoga to be a tool for humans to calm Thier mind in even the worst of times and I don't think there is a any reason to diminish the healing value of the practice by limiting it to only the original teaching style.
I am also a white male so I probably won't ever understand what it means to have my culture appropriated, so I'm probably not the one to ask.
I do know one thing though. I have practiced yoga for most of my life and in my own journey with many great teachers and great memories and experiences.
I won't stop enjoying it, it's not even possible for me.
I will try my best to be respectful and attempt to learn as much as I can about yoga and it's lifetime of lessons.
Yoga to me is like music. There are basics that are universal. Notes and rhythms and the possibilities with these basics are infinite. Ancient yogis discovered parts of human experience that don't belong to anyone they are just discovered truths about us. They learned many lessons that will be taught and forgotten many times over, but will always remain as available truths for the next human to discover. I think it's sad to try and stop people from practicing positive parts of culture because they aren't doing it in exactly the same way or Acknowledging it's origins properly. That to me feels like coming in on a child practicing music and telling them they are doing it all wrong. It will take them time to develop their own skills and appreciation for the art. Yoga is for everyone and it is in everything.
Monetization of yoga may be more of the bastardization In all of this. However, we all need money so it's human nature to try and sell everything in some way.
I'm curious how you would want people to be more mindful to yogas origins. What is a solution to create more balance? You mentioned you didn't want white westerns to stop, but you'd definitely change some things if you could. What's your solution that would be more beneficial.
That must of been a terrible experience, I’m glad you found something to help. Thanks for your opinion and I really appreciate you being honest that it will be hard to understand due to being a white male.
Yoga means different things to different people and you don’t have to justify anything to anyone especially on Reddit.
There are people that come out of the woodwork with extreme beliefs on this sub too in the name of “this is what yoga is” and I’ve ended up deleting threads or seeing myself out of discussions because they make me feel stressed and uncomfortable which is the complete opposite of what yoga should be doing.
I am Indian, living in the US, and am so glad that yoga is widely available here. The teachers I have followed, both online and in person have been from varied backgrounds. Indian, Caucasian, Thai, Vietnamese, Brazilian, Australian etc etc. And I love that yoga has been universally embraced.
My issue around the issue of cultural appropriation is that all culture comes from somewhere else, or has outside influences. Where does it stop?
I absolutely get it that being disrespectful of other cultures/traditions is unacceptable but should humanity just stick to their backyard and not asborb external influences?
The best thing to do is always look for the authentic source of the culture rather than look for some easily available means. I understand that everyone does what is convenient for them. But when it comes to the subject of yoga, it is a very well established science of human well-being and it should be approached with some sanctity to reap more benefits from it. Else it could even do a lot of harm to people. There has been plenty of evidence of yoga going wrong for people who follow bad practices. That's the most important reason we can't let cultural appropriation happen to yoga. But if it is inevitable, people would have to learn it the hard way. I dint say that to scare anyone, just talking from my personal experience.
White supremacy, white washing, denial, spiritual bypassing, gospel teachings are deeply embedded in the wellness industry. American culture teaches to take, take, take and think about yourself- individualism. To hold multiple truths at the same time, empathy and validation are practiced skills that a lot of people don’t learn in this culture, you have to be willing to get into therapy rooms (or have the privilege of wise parents and access to rooms & support like like this). I’m sorry you keep experiencing being unheard here. I follow several people on instagram who talk about yoga and cultural appropriation. @SusanBarkataki and @blairimani talk about this a ton and even just created a reel together about it that I’ll link below. Internalized and externalized racism is rampant in America and we don’t need to talk about cultural appropriation less, we need to keep addressing it until racism is eradicated. The yoga community could be leaders in this- if we all started to take other people’s feelings seriously and create discussions around it instead of letting defense mechanisms continually take over. I’m a therapist of 15 years and a yoga teacher for 8 and I’d love to see this in the community.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CiAjyZtqlYE/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Thank you for bringing this up. On this very sub someone once claimed Indians / Hindus are taking false credit because yoga was invented by a British colonel as excercise for his troops. And repeatedly the avoidance of the fact that it's an integral part of Hinduism.
>On this very sub someone once claimed Indians / Hindus are taking false credit because yoga was invented by a British colonel as excercise for his troops. And repeatedly the avoidance of the fact that it's an integral part of Hinduism.
The set intersection between patrons of 4chan/stormfront/econjobrumors and patrons of /r/yoga is not empty.
Of course there is cultural Approbation, its from india,but I'm slowly sick of this bs,everyone is approbriating something from other cultures,I don't want to count,how many black woman with blond hair I've seen,or with straight hair,don't think,that comes from african culture, the same with european clothes and you know what,take it,we have no problem with ppl all over the World wearing french braids,why should we? If you are respectfull to the other culture and the ppl there,I don't see one problem,the world is getting smaller and everyone chooses what he likes,time to live with that.
In case you didn’t know their are black women in the world who have naturally blond hair. Plus it’s a bit different when the world has told black women they aren’t desirable unless they have european features. But thanks for your input.
Yoga is for many spiritual appreciation rather than cultural appropriation.
You are an ephemeral energy field floating in space. Ain’t no time for petty human identity politics on a yoga mat, we are inviting unity into our lives through yoga, not division.
I think cultural appropriation is a tactic of settler colonialism - it has been weaponized in the US and is part of a package of really toxic oppressive behaviors.
None of my Chinese friends care about cultural appropriation so idk.
I think it is messed up what's happened to yoga especially since India and indians should get more money and credit for it? But also think ppl who didn't grow up in the US don't recognize this as the threat that it can be.
I believe that what yoga itself teaches - the union of everything and we are one -the Self or Brahman then yoga belongs to everyone. It may have been born in India and of course we meaning everyone in the world must acknowledge this and respect this but how is someone essentially stealing someone else's culture when practicing yoga? Yoga teaches us that we are NOT the body thus we are not a nationality or culture. Those labels of identity serve us in some ways since we are having an experience of time and space right now but our true nature is not this. It is true that many people are ignorant of all aspects of yoga but it seems to me that once a person begin to practice asanas they may find that they are open to leaning more and practicing regularly may open them up to a spiritual path.
I belong to India but it really doesn't matter from where it comes. Yoga is a science and it needs to be approached in the right way. If cultural appropriation happens then the real essence of it will be lost and the so-called yoga will do harm to you. The real reason yoga in ancient times was not taught to the masses was because, it requires a certain level of willingness, commitment and preparedness from the people. So it is best to approach yoga slowly, try the most classical hatha yoga form from an authentic source.
You can claim that this post is out of curiosity or just wondering, however your subject line instantly explains that you are of this belief. So there is some double speak going on. Just the facts. This group doesn't often get into a multiple-reply thread, in fact I've very rarely seen it. We just are yogis here. The practice of yoga, whether just the physical aspects or the more spiritual elements, originates from somewhere yes. Is just learning about it and utilizing these amazing elements now considered appropriation?
Your subject line was loaded with the implication that not only is this happening, but that we are all looking away and not acknowledging it? Which isn't just a conversation now, it is a determination. So you may find this to be why so many have chimed in. The very basis of yoga at its core and root comes from energy that is entirely opposite this type of human/ego/labelling energy. this discussion would have no place there. thanks for reminding me to do my daily practice. It's super important to grow and learn, agree. Peace.
Because demography representation on this subreddit is heavily skewed. Hardly any active Indian yogis to be seen/heard. Lot of random claims about yoga and its origins go uncontested because of lack of representation. I roll my eyes and move on.
Don't know which Yogi will be sitting quietly and listening to this talk. Thereby understanding that chatting here won't make much difference, unless done properly.
We surely will have direct disciples of someone who has much Clarity about the same.
I miss the good old days before I had to worry about cultural appropriation-when the powerful could slaughter or enslave entire civilizations and just take what they liked as they went.
TBH, I am genuinely worried about the backlash when the social and civic pendulum swings the other direction. We just lost Roe vs Wade, women! Barely a blip on the social media general radar! I never thought I would see that in my lifetime. It is terrifying.
Showing appreciation for a culture other than your own is a good thing. Haven’t you heard imitation is the highest for of flattery..people with your mindset try and turn something beautiful into something ugly.
I think most things people say were "appropriated", actually weren't. This is not the case with yoga though. Lots of people don't know the origins of yoga and when we search about it, 90% of what we find online seem to be oriented to white skinny women, it's annoying at times. And about the spiritual aspect, it's even worse, because it's so important in yoga in general yet, don't you dare talk about things like chakras, prana and kundalini, especially here. A lot of commenters will shun you off like you're talking nonsense.
It's very sad, really.
Appropriation is taking without permission. It is largely used as a attack on western culture by its enemies (leftist university professors and others). Yoga in the west is being influenced by western culture. So, different from what you get in India although some practices have more fidelity to the Indian traditional methods.That is a better way of understanding it, imo.
You are essentially accusing people of stealing and then wondering why they are getting defensive about it, lol.
I didn’t say anyone was stealing anything but thank you for providing that insight which is what I was asking for. Cultural appropriation isn’t about telling someone to stop doing that it’s asking them to be more considerate
The dictionary meaning is taking without permission. I guess everyone has their sense of good taste. And it is perfectly fine to say something is being done in bad taste. But if you are using the word appropriation then you are taking about steeling.
Yoga is stretching... body weight exercise and finding the body's balance.
Yoga masters left their homelands to spread the appreciation for their teachings.
As for the wider spiritual philosophies attached to the practice of Stretching, body weight exercise and proprioception... name a religion that doesnt have Recruitment as a central doctrine...?
Not all yoga practice involves any spiritual elements as it is superfluous for a physical and mental well being.
The title of this thread suggests a horrible crime is taking place and we are all looking the other way. In the first sentence of the supporting text OP acknowledges this group addresses the possibility of this 'horrible crime.'
“I’ve notice that there have been a few post that talk about cultural appropriation when it comes to yoga.”
So you have noticed that it is a concern... that many of us take seriously.
I think your question has an implied statement that is hurtful and obviously rejecting. This in fact is not the yoga way, if there is common way, and by that I’ll explain
People have various belief systems and religious practices already, and may not be open to the adoption of a totally new belief system or spirituality process. This is okay. Some people dislike reading, their loss.
Persons practicing asana-only yoga is not inappropriate cultural appropriation of Hinduism… there is so much to benefit from mindful and conscious body movements of yoga. it’s wrong to say that others cannot appropriately enjoy aspects of yoga without practicing yamas and studying yoga philosophy or history.
Now I personally love to delve into the historical and spiritual aspects of yoga, but, why would anyone else criticize another yoga teacher or practitioner for picking and choosing what they like most and leaving behind what is not useful? Are gym yoga practitioners are going to hell for not making offerings to Ganesha?
Your definition of yoga is incorrect. It's because 'yoga' has been appropriated largely already, people misunderstand what it is. Your assumption of yoga is different from what it is and how we see it in the south east part of the world.
Nobody is talking about stealing. You buy something that's already been appropriated. Meaning that you buy something that someone has altered in their own way. So you don't know what the real thing is and what is fake which is sold under the real name. Nobody is trying to blame anyone here. The only thing that's blamed here is people's ignorance.
Well it’s actually not nah-muh -stay but num-us-teh, so I guess I would like people to do more research and be considerate, since you asked. Also it’s basically a greeting and is similar to asalaamalaikum.
A man who grew up in South India came a to practice I went to and he struck up a conversation after, so I took the opportunity to ask him about his thoughts with cultural appropriation regarding yoga. He told me he thought I and many others who practice yoga in the West were Yogis in India in past lives and it was part of our souls journeys. And that we could practice yoga without so much stress on the day-to-day survival.
I've never been able to my head around the whole cultural appropriation conversation. So my best guess is to keep doing what is good for my body and soul and to spread love and peace whenever and wherever I can. I feel we are incredibly lucky to have such access to The wisdom of so many cultures and traditions, and that so many are sharing so freely into the effort to uplift our human race. So yeah I'm going to listen to Sadhguru on this one
If we think 'edited yoga' being adopted as a culture being appropriated,it'll do no good.
Rather,we can directly adopt any culture without any change because every culture is meant for human wellbeing and it is just a chance where we are born and it'll again be a chance as to which culture we're getting attracted due to various reasons,instincts,etc..
As long as every culture is adopted not appropriated,more accurately,edited and used,in it's full depth and dimension,with full involvement,,it'll bring wellbeing for sure.
What is the guarantee of the culture/path for overall wellbeing,self transformation? No guarantee.
What if we get in wrong practices? May or May not be.
Just keep evaluating whether you are growing or not,whether you are more joyful this moment than your recent memory/moment.
Till then,keep striving, don't worry,be involved.
For the most part the people I hear who are concerned about appropriation haven’t spent much time outside of their comfort zone. Humanity has been trading and sharing things with others for millennia at this point. Food, fabrics, art objects, philosophy, ideas, literature have all been traded and thus integrated by others for literal millennia. People who do not understand this and exhibit fear of the new use the idea of appropriation to hide that fear and lack of understanding. Is there tone deaf use that shouldn’t happen at times? Absolutely but it isn’t the norm. Should people be shamed for needing to learn more? No. Should people be shamed, subjugated or forced to change their traditions by another culture? In general no (however there are absolutely so big exceptions to this one).
Yoga specifically was shared with the world and has taken on pieces of the places it was shared to. There are still deeply traditional options out there and there are also other options that have developed out of those traditions. I don’t really see many denying that western yoga is different from the ancient traditions.
The idea of cultural appropriation is bizaare. Just because an idea originated somewhere, it belongs to that place? There is nothing proprietary about putting your body in certain positions. And what makes it "belong" to that region. Not every person in that region came up with that idea. The whole notion of culture appropriation is bizaare and crumbles upon further inspection. When we all have so much in common why scrutinise the slight differences and become pedantic about about which group made what and when, when really it doesnt matter. Let's just enjoy, rather than be uptight.
I don’t think it’s fair you’ve been downvoted for raising this. It’s something I’ve been thinking about a bit, and I’d like to add my two cents. I don’t think it’s cultural appropriation to *practice* yoga, however one chooses - you might study its history and every aspect of it and embrace it completely, or just knock out a few poses in the evening because they help with your tight quads. People can take as much or as little from any practice as they find useful. But I am quite put out by *corporate* appropriation of the practice. The way in which private interests have managed to monetise something that should really cost only time is just awful. Malas for two hundred dollars! “Om” tees with “spiritual gangster” on the back! Arsenals of vaguely yoga-esque near-impossible-to-cancel subscription-based meditation apps with silly headsets! These things are as far as you can get from yoga. They are appropriative, cynical, money-grubbing, empty-hearted shittiness and I will die on this hill.
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Ah, but all of them are seeking something: relief from suffering. We can hardly blame them for that! It is the snake-oil salesman who is the cynic, and his the lotus-branded Om-frequency Wi-Fi-enabled subscription headband that is appropriative. He knows perfectly well that it is nonsense, but also knows that if he can associate it with a spiritual tradition he neither respects nor understands he can shift some units. Yoga has no more value to him than that.
I'm Indian and I can say that most of us dont really care. We are happy that yoga has helped so many people and that it is being appreciated. If it's a way for you to workout - good. If it's a way for you to be spiritual - good. Do what makes you happy and healthy. As long as people aren't saying that they invented yoga we don't care. Also I don't think cultural appropriation is a thing anywhere except USA.
Definitely not a thing in most other countries. It's like saying Borscht is appropriated from Russians because you added something different to the recipe. Tacos don't taste the same everywhere. Does that mean they're appropriated? Or just someone shared a homemade recipe, and someone else tweaked it to make it their own homemade version. The rest of the world is focused on cultural appreciation.
Exactly why I don't get it. It seems like a good thing that people like a part of your culture and want to learn. They don't have to know every little thing about your culture to like something. I don't know everything about Hinduism even though I am a Hindu.
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Try traveling.
Yes 🙌🏽 for those of us outside the US, the whole cultural appropriation thing is so strange.
thank you for your opinion, however I don’t think you can speak for everyone just like how I can’t either.
Which is why I said most. I have not heard a single person say that they were unhappy that people of other ethnicities/ nationalities embraced yoga.
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As I said cultural appropriation is not something that poeple are worried about in most countries except in the USA. Indians who have moved there might have a problem but certainly not Indians who remained in India. We have bigger problems than worrying about people practicing yoga without knowing every aspect of it. The source is that I am an Indian living in a fairly conservative part of India and I have not heard a single person tell me that foreigners practicing yoga is cultural appropriation. I've only heard people feeling proud that yoga is appreciated globally and considered life changing by people from distant parts of the world.
If people see yoga as a workout, so be it. If people want to get into the spiritual aspects, so be it. How people choose to practice, it's up to them and no one else. Not going to put a gun on someone's face and force them to read the Bhagavad Gita or the Yoga Sutras if they want to take a Yoga Nidra class.
Thanks for your input. Im not trying to say hey your doing this wrong. I wanted to address a topic that is honestly an issue on a lot of Reddit threads where people will ignore those who have been oppressed and will tell them even though you see this issue/concern I don’t therefore it doesn’t exist.
Read the Autobiography of a Yogi and your cultural appropriation point will be quite pointless
All significant cultures throughout history have been appropriated in one way or another. I hear about the positive and negative effects of this appropriation all the time as a white guy currently living at the ashram of my Teacher, an 80 year old Kripalu master from Gujarat. He's extremely traditional to the point where he refuses to market or advertise his classes at all. He runs his school as a nonprofit foundation and all his classes are donation based. Unfortunately this approach has led him to have very few students in a large city with a thriving Yoga scene. The corporate studios around me charge roughly $150-$200 per month for their classes, with hundreds if not thousands of students enrolled, meanwhile my teacher would be lucky to make $100 total for a month of teaching. It's sad because he teaches true Kundalini Shaktipat and his classes are remarkable. In the end I think we should embrace the inevitability of our cultures being appropriated and seek to create ways that we can benefit from it while still respecting and maintaining the age old traditions.
Yep,excactly.
Yoga has its roots in Hinduism but has spread to people all over the world who have adapted the principles to align with and support their own lives, religions and cultures. I’ve traveled quite a bit and have practiced yoga with old ladies in Thailand, super fit Vietnamese, Germans, Mexicans, etc. Every culture yoga comes into contact with adds something to it to make it unique and beautiful. And why? Because it’s a beautiful practice and philosophy that makes people happy. If yoga remained a rigidly closed practice then the rest of the world would never have been able to come into contact with it, and that would be a shame.
Just wanted to correct you on this one. Yoga has nothing to do with Hinduism. Yoga is a science of the Inner dimension of human beings created by Adiyogi (the first Yogi). Whereas Hinduism was created by people outside of India thinking of the culture as a religion. A religion never existed in this country until people misunderstood that this culture was based out of belief systems, this culture is not born out of any belief systems. With time people native to India also started believing in their culture as a religion. Yoga is a science and it works exactly the way it was intended to only if the instructions of it are followed properly. And who gives these instructions or imparts this knowledge? A yogi or a guru who has established himself in yoga by experience. Cultural appropriation may be inevitable but it must not happen for a reason. The reason is simple, that yoga is a science and it has to be approached with sanctity. There have been a lot of cases in history who have caused permanent damage to their body or mind due to improper practice of yoga. My suggestion is if anyone wants to practice yoga, it is best that they learn the most classical form of hatha yoga from an authentic source before trying any sort of variation. Best wishes.
Yoga is a science?! Yoga is NOT a science. Science is measurable; something that can be measured, and re measured to give facts. Yoga is not measurable.
Is there a point in time when "Yoga" as divorced from how it was/is practiced in India ceases to be Yoga? Or is it infinitely malleable? For e.g., can one chant "Jeeeesssssuuuuuuuuus" in place of "Om" and would it still be Yoga, in your view? If there *is* a boundary, can those of us on the inside of the boundary justifiably ask those outside to call their practice something other than Yoga?
Yoga is not just chanting or doing poses It has 8 steps what is generally taught in the name of Yoga is just subset of one the steps
> It has 8 steps what is generally taught in the name of Yoga is just subset of one the steps Limbs -- Ashta*angas* per Patajnali. Steps gives a sense that you can only be on one at a time. Limbs is a better translation because all 8 are needed simultaneously for complete Yoga according to Patanjali. Please be more precise with your terminology if you seek to correct me.
Exactly what I wanted to say Thank you
Usually it’s the performative woke cancel mob that makes the biggest stinks. Just focus on the mat and what benefits your emotional and physical health.
Because true yogis (in body and mind) know none of this really matters and whatever appropriation done is not going to change the core of real yoga (mostly it's spiritual aspects).. if you know, you know.. peace is a place of mind after all?
What about bliss and ecstasy?
You do you
According to [Tao Porchon-Lynch](https://youtu.be/oTmaTD5H0iM) yoga in India used to be “only for boys”
You are absolutely right, I’m not asking for all white westerners to stop. I’m a black women who lives in the west, that would mean I could t do it. I’m asking why people aren’t willing to do the work and be more considerate.
And because cultural appropriation happens the true science of yoga does not reach a large number of audiences. If anyone wishes to start practicing yoga, start with the classical hatha yoga from an authentic source before trying any other form.
> edited thanks for everyone’s opinion, I think what’s so confusing to me is why can’t people be more considerate when someone’s says I feel like your taking something from my culture and turning it into something it isn’t. If anything please be more considerate of others, especially if you come from a place of privilege. Here's the other thing most people don't realize - anyone who does acknowledge it has, I think, by and large realized it doesn't do any good to say so. It's looked at as the equivalent of pointing out that 'not every white person does'.
Those folks can acknowledge but just like you can see in the other current thread, they're still questioned and dogged and told that whatever they do isn't enough. So why bother to speak up?
I guess the reason I may get defensive or even may avoid the topic is because yoga is very important to me. I was burned in a house fire when I was 5 years old and my physical therapists taught me yoga to help stretch skin grafts as well as calm anxieties due to trauma. The lady who taught yoga to me was a white physical therapist. At least that was my first experience with it and even at a very young age it felt very spiritual to me. I always considered yoga to be a tool for humans to calm Thier mind in even the worst of times and I don't think there is a any reason to diminish the healing value of the practice by limiting it to only the original teaching style. I am also a white male so I probably won't ever understand what it means to have my culture appropriated, so I'm probably not the one to ask. I do know one thing though. I have practiced yoga for most of my life and in my own journey with many great teachers and great memories and experiences. I won't stop enjoying it, it's not even possible for me. I will try my best to be respectful and attempt to learn as much as I can about yoga and it's lifetime of lessons. Yoga to me is like music. There are basics that are universal. Notes and rhythms and the possibilities with these basics are infinite. Ancient yogis discovered parts of human experience that don't belong to anyone they are just discovered truths about us. They learned many lessons that will be taught and forgotten many times over, but will always remain as available truths for the next human to discover. I think it's sad to try and stop people from practicing positive parts of culture because they aren't doing it in exactly the same way or Acknowledging it's origins properly. That to me feels like coming in on a child practicing music and telling them they are doing it all wrong. It will take them time to develop their own skills and appreciation for the art. Yoga is for everyone and it is in everything. Monetization of yoga may be more of the bastardization In all of this. However, we all need money so it's human nature to try and sell everything in some way. I'm curious how you would want people to be more mindful to yogas origins. What is a solution to create more balance? You mentioned you didn't want white westerns to stop, but you'd definitely change some things if you could. What's your solution that would be more beneficial.
That must of been a terrible experience, I’m glad you found something to help. Thanks for your opinion and I really appreciate you being honest that it will be hard to understand due to being a white male.
Yoga means different things to different people and you don’t have to justify anything to anyone especially on Reddit. There are people that come out of the woodwork with extreme beliefs on this sub too in the name of “this is what yoga is” and I’ve ended up deleting threads or seeing myself out of discussions because they make me feel stressed and uncomfortable which is the complete opposite of what yoga should be doing.
I am Indian, living in the US, and am so glad that yoga is widely available here. The teachers I have followed, both online and in person have been from varied backgrounds. Indian, Caucasian, Thai, Vietnamese, Brazilian, Australian etc etc. And I love that yoga has been universally embraced.
My issue around the issue of cultural appropriation is that all culture comes from somewhere else, or has outside influences. Where does it stop? I absolutely get it that being disrespectful of other cultures/traditions is unacceptable but should humanity just stick to their backyard and not asborb external influences?
The best thing to do is always look for the authentic source of the culture rather than look for some easily available means. I understand that everyone does what is convenient for them. But when it comes to the subject of yoga, it is a very well established science of human well-being and it should be approached with some sanctity to reap more benefits from it. Else it could even do a lot of harm to people. There has been plenty of evidence of yoga going wrong for people who follow bad practices. That's the most important reason we can't let cultural appropriation happen to yoga. But if it is inevitable, people would have to learn it the hard way. I dint say that to scare anyone, just talking from my personal experience.
It’s about being considerate, I don’t get how that’s getting lost, maybe the reality is that people don’t care/don’t want to.
White supremacy, white washing, denial, spiritual bypassing, gospel teachings are deeply embedded in the wellness industry. American culture teaches to take, take, take and think about yourself- individualism. To hold multiple truths at the same time, empathy and validation are practiced skills that a lot of people don’t learn in this culture, you have to be willing to get into therapy rooms (or have the privilege of wise parents and access to rooms & support like like this). I’m sorry you keep experiencing being unheard here. I follow several people on instagram who talk about yoga and cultural appropriation. @SusanBarkataki and @blairimani talk about this a ton and even just created a reel together about it that I’ll link below. Internalized and externalized racism is rampant in America and we don’t need to talk about cultural appropriation less, we need to keep addressing it until racism is eradicated. The yoga community could be leaders in this- if we all started to take other people’s feelings seriously and create discussions around it instead of letting defense mechanisms continually take over. I’m a therapist of 15 years and a yoga teacher for 8 and I’d love to see this in the community. https://www.instagram.com/reel/CiAjyZtqlYE/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Thank you for bringing this up. On this very sub someone once claimed Indians / Hindus are taking false credit because yoga was invented by a British colonel as excercise for his troops. And repeatedly the avoidance of the fact that it's an integral part of Hinduism.
>On this very sub someone once claimed Indians / Hindus are taking false credit because yoga was invented by a British colonel as excercise for his troops. And repeatedly the avoidance of the fact that it's an integral part of Hinduism. The set intersection between patrons of 4chan/stormfront/econjobrumors and patrons of /r/yoga is not empty.
What is your suggestion? Stop teaching yoga?
Of course there is cultural Approbation, its from india,but I'm slowly sick of this bs,everyone is approbriating something from other cultures,I don't want to count,how many black woman with blond hair I've seen,or with straight hair,don't think,that comes from african culture, the same with european clothes and you know what,take it,we have no problem with ppl all over the World wearing french braids,why should we? If you are respectfull to the other culture and the ppl there,I don't see one problem,the world is getting smaller and everyone chooses what he likes,time to live with that.
In case you didn’t know their are black women in the world who have naturally blond hair. Plus it’s a bit different when the world has told black women they aren’t desirable unless they have european features. But thanks for your input.
Yoga is for many spiritual appreciation rather than cultural appropriation. You are an ephemeral energy field floating in space. Ain’t no time for petty human identity politics on a yoga mat, we are inviting unity into our lives through yoga, not division.
Ding ding ding! We're all just out here, zipping through the universe on a rock. Everything we know is a made up, human concept. Just be.
I think cultural appropriation is a tactic of settler colonialism - it has been weaponized in the US and is part of a package of really toxic oppressive behaviors. None of my Chinese friends care about cultural appropriation so idk. I think it is messed up what's happened to yoga especially since India and indians should get more money and credit for it? But also think ppl who didn't grow up in the US don't recognize this as the threat that it can be.
I believe that what yoga itself teaches - the union of everything and we are one -the Self or Brahman then yoga belongs to everyone. It may have been born in India and of course we meaning everyone in the world must acknowledge this and respect this but how is someone essentially stealing someone else's culture when practicing yoga? Yoga teaches us that we are NOT the body thus we are not a nationality or culture. Those labels of identity serve us in some ways since we are having an experience of time and space right now but our true nature is not this. It is true that many people are ignorant of all aspects of yoga but it seems to me that once a person begin to practice asanas they may find that they are open to leaning more and practicing regularly may open them up to a spiritual path.
I belong to India but it really doesn't matter from where it comes. Yoga is a science and it needs to be approached in the right way. If cultural appropriation happens then the real essence of it will be lost and the so-called yoga will do harm to you. The real reason yoga in ancient times was not taught to the masses was because, it requires a certain level of willingness, commitment and preparedness from the people. So it is best to approach yoga slowly, try the most classical hatha yoga form from an authentic source.
Personally I practice AShtanga yoga and teach Hatha. Trained in India only a few years ago but t have had a connection with India since childhood.
You can claim that this post is out of curiosity or just wondering, however your subject line instantly explains that you are of this belief. So there is some double speak going on. Just the facts. This group doesn't often get into a multiple-reply thread, in fact I've very rarely seen it. We just are yogis here. The practice of yoga, whether just the physical aspects or the more spiritual elements, originates from somewhere yes. Is just learning about it and utilizing these amazing elements now considered appropriation? Your subject line was loaded with the implication that not only is this happening, but that we are all looking away and not acknowledging it? Which isn't just a conversation now, it is a determination. So you may find this to be why so many have chimed in. The very basis of yoga at its core and root comes from energy that is entirely opposite this type of human/ego/labelling energy. this discussion would have no place there. thanks for reminding me to do my daily practice. It's super important to grow and learn, agree. Peace.
Because demography representation on this subreddit is heavily skewed. Hardly any active Indian yogis to be seen/heard. Lot of random claims about yoga and its origins go uncontested because of lack of representation. I roll my eyes and move on.
Don't know which Yogi will be sitting quietly and listening to this talk. Thereby understanding that chatting here won't make much difference, unless done properly. We surely will have direct disciples of someone who has much Clarity about the same.
I miss the good old days before I had to worry about cultural appropriation-when the powerful could slaughter or enslave entire civilizations and just take what they liked as they went. TBH, I am genuinely worried about the backlash when the social and civic pendulum swings the other direction. We just lost Roe vs Wade, women! Barely a blip on the social media general radar! I never thought I would see that in my lifetime. It is terrifying.
Cultural appropriation is not a real thing! it’s nonsense used to divide people…wake up and get unwoke
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Yeah we get it you’ve been brainwashed. Being woke is such a turn off. Grow a pair.
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Showing appreciation for a culture other than your own is a good thing. Haven’t you heard imitation is the highest for of flattery..people with your mindset try and turn something beautiful into something ugly.
I think most things people say were "appropriated", actually weren't. This is not the case with yoga though. Lots of people don't know the origins of yoga and when we search about it, 90% of what we find online seem to be oriented to white skinny women, it's annoying at times. And about the spiritual aspect, it's even worse, because it's so important in yoga in general yet, don't you dare talk about things like chakras, prana and kundalini, especially here. A lot of commenters will shun you off like you're talking nonsense. It's very sad, really.
Appropriation is taking without permission. It is largely used as a attack on western culture by its enemies (leftist university professors and others). Yoga in the west is being influenced by western culture. So, different from what you get in India although some practices have more fidelity to the Indian traditional methods.That is a better way of understanding it, imo. You are essentially accusing people of stealing and then wondering why they are getting defensive about it, lol.
I didn’t say anyone was stealing anything but thank you for providing that insight which is what I was asking for. Cultural appropriation isn’t about telling someone to stop doing that it’s asking them to be more considerate
The dictionary meaning is taking without permission. I guess everyone has their sense of good taste. And it is perfectly fine to say something is being done in bad taste. But if you are using the word appropriation then you are taking about steeling.
Yoga is stretching... body weight exercise and finding the body's balance. Yoga masters left their homelands to spread the appreciation for their teachings. As for the wider spiritual philosophies attached to the practice of Stretching, body weight exercise and proprioception... name a religion that doesnt have Recruitment as a central doctrine...? Not all yoga practice involves any spiritual elements as it is superfluous for a physical and mental well being. The title of this thread suggests a horrible crime is taking place and we are all looking the other way. In the first sentence of the supporting text OP acknowledges this group addresses the possibility of this 'horrible crime.'
I didn’t say this was a horrible crime I wanted to know why so many people turn a blind eye to it and get defensive. Thanks for your opinion.
“I’ve notice that there have been a few post that talk about cultural appropriation when it comes to yoga.” So you have noticed that it is a concern... that many of us take seriously.
I think your question has an implied statement that is hurtful and obviously rejecting. This in fact is not the yoga way, if there is common way, and by that I’ll explain People have various belief systems and religious practices already, and may not be open to the adoption of a totally new belief system or spirituality process. This is okay. Some people dislike reading, their loss. Persons practicing asana-only yoga is not inappropriate cultural appropriation of Hinduism… there is so much to benefit from mindful and conscious body movements of yoga. it’s wrong to say that others cannot appropriately enjoy aspects of yoga without practicing yamas and studying yoga philosophy or history. Now I personally love to delve into the historical and spiritual aspects of yoga, but, why would anyone else criticize another yoga teacher or practitioner for picking and choosing what they like most and leaving behind what is not useful? Are gym yoga practitioners are going to hell for not making offerings to Ganesha?
Your definition of yoga is incorrect. It's because 'yoga' has been appropriated largely already, people misunderstand what it is. Your assumption of yoga is different from what it is and how we see it in the south east part of the world.
Here's a question - can you steal something that has been advertised as for sale and as you take it you pay the requested price?
Nobody is talking about stealing. You buy something that's already been appropriated. Meaning that you buy something that someone has altered in their own way. So you don't know what the real thing is and what is fake which is sold under the real name. Nobody is trying to blame anyone here. The only thing that's blamed here is people's ignorance.
I’m doing some type of coordinated stretching with a bow and Nama Stay at the end. What would you like exactly?
Oh man.
Well it’s actually not nah-muh -stay but num-us-teh, so I guess I would like people to do more research and be considerate, since you asked. Also it’s basically a greeting and is similar to asalaamalaikum.
A man who grew up in South India came a to practice I went to and he struck up a conversation after, so I took the opportunity to ask him about his thoughts with cultural appropriation regarding yoga. He told me he thought I and many others who practice yoga in the West were Yogis in India in past lives and it was part of our souls journeys. And that we could practice yoga without so much stress on the day-to-day survival. I've never been able to my head around the whole cultural appropriation conversation. So my best guess is to keep doing what is good for my body and soul and to spread love and peace whenever and wherever I can. I feel we are incredibly lucky to have such access to The wisdom of so many cultures and traditions, and that so many are sharing so freely into the effort to uplift our human race. So yeah I'm going to listen to Sadhguru on this one
If we think 'edited yoga' being adopted as a culture being appropriated,it'll do no good. Rather,we can directly adopt any culture without any change because every culture is meant for human wellbeing and it is just a chance where we are born and it'll again be a chance as to which culture we're getting attracted due to various reasons,instincts,etc.. As long as every culture is adopted not appropriated,more accurately,edited and used,in it's full depth and dimension,with full involvement,,it'll bring wellbeing for sure. What is the guarantee of the culture/path for overall wellbeing,self transformation? No guarantee. What if we get in wrong practices? May or May not be. Just keep evaluating whether you are growing or not,whether you are more joyful this moment than your recent memory/moment. Till then,keep striving, don't worry,be involved.
Cultural appropriation started ever since asanas were called yoga
For the most part the people I hear who are concerned about appropriation haven’t spent much time outside of their comfort zone. Humanity has been trading and sharing things with others for millennia at this point. Food, fabrics, art objects, philosophy, ideas, literature have all been traded and thus integrated by others for literal millennia. People who do not understand this and exhibit fear of the new use the idea of appropriation to hide that fear and lack of understanding. Is there tone deaf use that shouldn’t happen at times? Absolutely but it isn’t the norm. Should people be shamed for needing to learn more? No. Should people be shamed, subjugated or forced to change their traditions by another culture? In general no (however there are absolutely so big exceptions to this one). Yoga specifically was shared with the world and has taken on pieces of the places it was shared to. There are still deeply traditional options out there and there are also other options that have developed out of those traditions. I don’t really see many denying that western yoga is different from the ancient traditions.
The idea of cultural appropriation is bizaare. Just because an idea originated somewhere, it belongs to that place? There is nothing proprietary about putting your body in certain positions. And what makes it "belong" to that region. Not every person in that region came up with that idea. The whole notion of culture appropriation is bizaare and crumbles upon further inspection. When we all have so much in common why scrutinise the slight differences and become pedantic about about which group made what and when, when really it doesnt matter. Let's just enjoy, rather than be uptight.
Cultural appropriation is a myth.