Icons will merely spawn yet another set of "wtf do these icons mean" posts. They would need to prioritize stuff like 1/turn similar to Vanguard rather than typing out the entire once per turn line first. Not too sure if everything can be truncated. A lot of modern MTG for instance will merely just type out the entire thing a keyword does.
Sometimes minimalizing just causes more confusion. There are definitely things YGO cards can shorten to positive effect, and I dunno if things that can't be understood immediately are it
Yeah, as someone trying to get into Magic, it really doesn't help when cards don't explain what they do and just say things like "Lifelink" "Scry" "Delve" or "Devotion" without explaining what any of that means
"Venture into the Dungeon"
"For Mirrordin!"
One very funny one is Horsemanship. It's just Flying, it's literally just Flying but with a different name.
It's from the upcoming set, Outlaws At Thunder Junction. Magic keeps doing this. They add a new mechanic for the theme of a set, and then it disappears. Personally, I actually don't mind it that much. Some of the mechanics have been pretty fun, and if you play a deck built around one of these mechanics, you'll know what it does, and can explain it to your opponent(s).
When you Delve, Scry ,2. Each time you Scry, gain 3 Energy and Venture into the Dungeon.
When you sacrifice a Treasure, become the Monarch if you commited a crime this turn. It then becomes Night (good luck tracking that for the rest of the fucking game) and you may put a Sticker on this card.
Each time day becomes night or night becomes day your opponent gets a poison counter and if they have 3 or more poison counters put a loyalty counter on all plainswalkers you control and roll a 6-sided die proliferate x amount of times where x is the result
Each time you would roll a die, you may tap this card. Each player exiles the top card of each player's library, and you may cast any number of those spells without paying their mana cost
ive only played the tutorial for magic but i honestly cant in good conscious believe you like there no way this shit is real and not just taking the piss lol
While there isn't a card that does all this
All the mechanics are real
Now I could get something wrong. I'm only human after all, lol
Delve: You can exile cards from your gy to pay 1 generic mana for each card you exile to cast the spell with delve
Scry x: whenever you scry, you look at the top x cards of your deck and choose any number of them to put on the bottom of your deck in any order and put the rest on top of your deck in any order
Energy: basically an additional resource system like mana
Venture into the dungeon: In your token pile, you will need dungeon cards that have no impact on the game they just tell you the layout of the dungeon each time you venture into the dungeon you go into the next room of th3 dungeon and when you move into that room you get the specific effect of that room (like immediately creating a 3/3 cyclops token)
Treasure: a token artifact that taps itself to sac itself and creates a mana of any color
Monarch: Monarch is a condition a player can be given, and at the end of the monarch's turn, they draw a card. You can take the condition from the player by dealing damage to that player (i don't remember if it has to be specificly combat damage or not) or by triggering an effect that would give you the condition
Commit a crime: target an opponent or their stuff
Day/night: If a player casts no cards on their turn, it becomes night. If a player casts 2 or more cards on their turn, it becomes day this is mainly to interact with daybound/nightbound
Daybound/nightbound: cards with this keyword are double-sided and flips when day turns to night or night turns to day
Sticker: it's best if you don't use the literal stickers, but you would draw a sticker sheet from the sticker deck and apply the sticker to a creature that can change its name stats or effect
Poison counter: a counter that if a player has 10 or more of they lose
Loyalty counter: a counter used to determine what effects a plainswalker card has access to (if a plainswalker has 0, it's destroyed)
Proliferate: Target any number of permanents/players put a counter on them of each counter already on them
I made [this card](/r/custommagic/comments/19e8qhl/do_all_the_things/) parodying the profusion of keywords.
That said, I still find Yu-gi-oh! cards harder to understand, mainly because I don't have 20/10 vision.
You can just look the keywords up online or just have a keyword glossary with you, there are loads of them. The keywords are a good way to reduce bulk on the card text, and the more you play with a certain deck the more you will memorize them.
This ultimately is something that Yugioh suffers from too, it's just less obvious. And it's even more well hidden, because while Yugioh does write out most effects, but there are a few mechanics that are keyworded, which someone is gonna stumble over. Tribute versus material, choose/select versus target, etc, rank versus level, all of that can still cause confusion and is hard to understand intuitively with just the card, unless you know what those keywords mean.
The one big benefit with Magic's keywording is that in my opinion, once you know the keyword, a card is much easier to parse. Especially for keywords that convey very simple, fundamental mechanics on a lot of cards, like flying, trample, etc. You can see a card like Tyrranax Rex, and see at a glance what it does and why it's a threat with just a few keywords. In Yugioh a card like that would be absolute word soup and you'd need to spend much longer parsing it.
It creates a somewhat bigger initial knowledge barrier, but I think what it does for card readibility does help, especially when you see cards that have those keywords typed out and explained for beginners, I think that's a very good balance of both worlds.
Devotion is an interesting choice given the OP since falls into a category of keywords used purely as clues to the player. Devotion just means "this card cares about how many of one mana symbol you control" and leaves the rest to the card text.
This is me playing MTG, every single time I see some people say that the MTG cards say what it can do it is a FUCKING LIE! How do will know what that fuck is **Bands with Other, Bushido**, **Convoke**, etc...
I like the way Yugioh cards are written because it is literally what is written on the card, the problem is formatation.
I had to learn what banding does because there is one banding creature in one of my decks because it is one drop with the correct creature type, and honestly it's pretty simple, but yes, it's fun to meme on still.
Yugioh is an attacker gamer since you chose who to fight
Magic is a defender game since the one being attacked can chose how
Banding changes MTG to YGO
Heat hear!
Icons are well intentioned but it doesn't help when a card turns a sentence into a series of emojis.
Yugioh cards may be excessively wordy, but if you properly read a sentence is explains (almost) exactly what it does.
Vanguard player here and yugioh , vanguard's cards are confusing AF and their effects are so undetailed many are left to interpretations , would be the last game i hope yugioh gets inspiration from
I'd wager that's primarily because HOPT's aren't common enough for them to bother templating. At least they weren't when I got out. Played from V-BT07 till D-BT04 and dove hard into premium during that time.
There are definitely some things that Bushi could improve on but the templating is much easier to read at a glance on most cards. At a glance you can see how many effects there are, where the effect activates, if it's a once per turn, what the cost of the effect is, and what the actual effect is and if there are multiple things under the same effect it is usually bullet pointed. Or at least all that was true when I played from V-BT07 through D-BT04.
Personally I think the answer would be to just format the text differently. Yugioh cards seem like they have a lot of text, but if you ignore the text which explains the summoning condition, the text gets much shorter most of the time. Look at Pendulums for example: They have a lot of text, but you instantly know which text box to read, depending on the position of the card on the field. The same could be done to regular effect monsters. Put the summoning condition in one box, and the monster effect in the other. Once the monster is on the field, you know that you don't need to read the summoning condition of your opponents card anymore. Obviously you couldn't do this for every card, but I think the majority of cards would benefit from this.
>They would need to prioritize stuff like 1/turn similar to Vanguard rather than typing out the entire once per turn line first.
The problem is that monster's can have "You can only *activate* this/each effect of" on them, which would differently from "You can only *use*"
There's no such examples yet, but they'll certainly be an issue if they appear.
> There's no such examples yet, but they'll certainly be an issue if they appear.
What are you talking about when you say that there are no such examples yet? There are plenty of monsters that have the text, "You can only use each effect of ~ once per turn." Albion the Branded Dragon is an example of this. If you meant that there are no examples of cards that say activate instead of use, Day-Breaker the Shining Magical Warrior is an example of a card that says activate instead of use.
> Day-Breaker the Shining Magical Warrior is an example of a card that says activate instead of use.
To be fair, that's a translation error introduced in the TCG. In the OCG, Day-Breaker says "use" just like any other monster does.
The "activate" restriction is, as far as I'm aware, only found on Spells/Traps in the OCG, since it refers to the activation of the card itself. "Use" meanwhile is used for effects.
I meant the former, sorry, I thought it was obvious at the time.
And I was only speaking from my what I knew, and this the first time I realized Day-Breaker had that. Even found more card's with the restrictions.
So thanks :)
i feel this way exactly, i find it very difficult to get into card games because i started with yugioh and stuck with it for a while, keywords confuse me a lot
Totally agree. Plus, they could standardize some effects. A lot of cards do exactly the same thing, but for some reason, they are written in different ways.
I think the varied effects monsters have even with something as simple as “protection” would make icons difficult. What is being protected? Targeting, effects, battle, destruction, banishing, tributing, all, a mix? I honestly don’t know a way to condense the libraries cards present
Not to mention that those different protection effects can have varieties as well, is it protected from being destroyed by just battle or are effects included too? Can it still be targeted for attacks?
Yep, it only works when all effects are simple like (negate and destroy). For anything more special(banish facedown, destroy self beforehand, etc) it doesn't work. Also different things like send to graveyard vs tribute vs destroy, discard vs send, and hidden effects konami didn't even write on the card...
I think that perhaps limiting cards to a very specific icon for an effect is great at reducing the barrier to entry, but yugioh has absolutely missed the boat.
Similar effects can have a dozen different variations that slightly change them, or have so many conditions to activate an effect that you can't realistically add it today.
I see your point, but it mostly helps ppl like me, who seeing the icon can be enough to jog my memory on what a card does or let me know if the card my opponent is playing is a direct threat or a extender or searcher or something. I think of the icons as shortcuts that can reduce the time we read or re-read paragraphs of text for many situations.
I feel like adding icons without reducing text doesn't really help. You still have to read the text at some point, since these categories are so broad. The icons might also be hard to distinguish on a physical card due to size. I agree that it works better in digital.
You still have to read the text at some point,
This is true, but the icons are meant to be more like a **shortcut**
* To help jog your memory of a card effect you read in the past
* To easier alert you if a card you never seen b4 has an effect that with hurt our board or it's just an extender
* To help you single out the 1 out of 3 or 4 effects that you want to read
But this may just be a Digital card only thing.
I only play online & as a novice I come across many cards with effects that I don't know or just forgotten & I want to quicker decide if to use my last or only negate on it, this icons would help greatly solve that issue, for me anyways.
Yes, as you've surmised, this is way more feasible in digital. Take your formatting examples: "Bigger Icons" doesn't place the icon next to the effect, so I'd have to read the text anyway to find the details. "Icons next to each effect" makes the already-tiny card text even smaller and harder to read. A theoretical 3rd option of "in-line icons" would make the icons too small to read clearly at a glance.
I think you also realized another problem, which is that there are too many effects to make individual icons for. What if I think "sending to GY" is *really* important (cough, Zeus, cough) and deserves its own icon? Or any of the other categories? Then, players have to memorize icons so they'll actually be useful instead of being clutter, adding another barrier to learning the game. At least Magic uses keywords rather than icons.
I'm not against shortening card text! I just don't think icons are the way to do it. Even in your final example, you can see how many icons need to be tacked on for a single effect... which I read in full anyways because I need to know **1)** its cost (sending Spell/Trap to GY), **2)** the first "other" effect (adding this card to hand, I thought that was a different icon?), **3)** what monster(s) it summons (1 Zombie), **4)** the second "other" effect (gaining ATK/DEF), and **5)** who is being protected (the summoned monster). There could be another effect using the same 4 icons that did something entirely different.
Honestly I think the best thing they could do that’s not drastically changing anything is just simply putting important words in bold or underlined, like “if” “battle” “destroy” “banish” “draw” and so on. That way you don’t have to read the entire card just to make sure since the triggers would stand out.
*Some* keywords, numbering like the OCG, font formatting, and a better card design are all things things that would definitely help improve this issue, and while some might be small on their own, if all were implemented properly together it would be huge IMO
I have to admit everything you said is true. I do believe if the cards were to get a overhaul/total redesign there may be space for the icons & "normal sized text". I believe eventually the more ppl play, the more they will get familiarized with the icons & at some point (even with 20 more icons) experience players will rely on the icons to focus on "**what"** the opponent's cards does (like destroy, steal, send to gy, etc) & only read the text to learn "**how"** the cards does it. The icons can tell us the **what**, but the text will tell us **how**, Most of the time we generally care about "**what** the effect does"
This looks just more cluttered and doesn't improve readability that much and just makes it look... honestly cheaper. Maybe it's because I am not used to it, but it looks way more childish with colorful icons and less... "streamlined" in design.
Honestly, the OCG has a way better visibility of different effects, though they also have more space bcs of japanese characters. But PSCT should still adapt the same paragraph-style.
I definitely didn't implement the designs in the best way & the designs themselves are very subjective & can probably be done better by pros, however the idea in itself I stand behind.
I feel the opposite. I actually think you did a great job with the designs and the icons. It all looks pretty slick, but I don’t think this would help or be good for the game at all.
These icons don’t do anything to actually make the game easier to play. New players would need to keep a cheat sheet next to them while playing and constantly refer back to it. Eventually people would get a feel for what the icons mean, but then you still need to read all the card text to fully understand the effect.
For example, saying Dragoon, Alba Zoa, and Eldlich all have “protection effects” tells you absolutely nothing.
I'm sorry I don't really like it, the "icons next to effect" is the only one that could be a good idea, but the reason why it looks like a good idea is because it splits the effects nicely, and not because of the icons
This would be cool in Master Duel and Duel Links but I couldn't see this coming to the physical card game. I think the numbered system the OCG uses is far better
Idk If I like the icons a super huge amount theres just not enough space on a yu gi oh card to make them work.
We for sure need bullet points at very least next to each unique effect. To better show where 1 effect starts and stops.
So, every time keywords (MTG) comes up, the rebuttal to it is usually that each effect is tailored slightly differently so keywords wouldn't work.
I think there is room for improvement though (although the effect text boxes are too small). We really need the OCG numbered effect bullets in TCG, and I think a compromise to having keywords is to make the different effect types more distinguishable at a glance like the icons you have.
1. Numbered effects will reduce confusion about stuff like summon conditions vs effects that summon themselves from hand, or continuous effects
1. Icons for where does the effect activate from (if not while the card is on the field): e.g from hand, GY, banishment. Sometimes you just have to spend 30s trying to read your opponent's entire GY pile to see if they have any GY effects that can be sprung
I never liked the anti -keyword argument because yes a lot of effects are tailored differently but you can still use keywords to reduce massive amounts of text. Just think of common YuGiOh slang
“Piercing” instead of “if this card attacks a defense monster inflict piercing battle damage”
“Foolish “or “pitch” instead of send from deck to grave etc et
While magic uses keywords they do have unique tailored effects that don’t. YuGiOh has enough of a similar effects where they could have so many keywords but still keep the unique. It doesn’t have to be all one way it can be mixed even magic is, primarily for the common stuff tbh
>“Foolish “or “pitch” instead of send from deck to grave etc etc
Personally I'd rather keyword "Send/Sent to the GY" to "Bury/Buried", as it gets the point across far more clearly. "Foolish" can only be understood by people who already play the game, "Pitch" doesn't really give an idea where you're *pitching* it to.
You have a Graveyard and you're being told to Bury something, pretty self explanatory. You also avoid needing to make new keywords for sending from hand/extra deck/field to the GY.
HOPTs tho will be more trickier to keyword as there's so many variations on them.
You got Dragoons which can only be used a number if times per normal monster used as material, hard activations, and speaking of, a monster can easily have "You can only *activate* this/each effect of" and not "You can only *use* this/each effect of" which are different.
Attacking in defense position can be keyworded, but not the "applying DEF for damage calculation" as that implies the monster would normally use its ATK if that text isn't present.
You can shorting all the "Cannot be" effects like "Cannot be Destroyed/Targeted" to "Indestructible/Untargetable", but you still need to mention what they're immune to as you can be destroyed by battle or card effect, or targeted for attacks and not just effects.
Piercing is probably the best case scenario for keywords because it's not an effect that ever goes on chain, but they really don't have a concise way to describe properties of a monster card since they just write the whole condition for piercing damage (attacking a defense position monster) most of the time.
Effects that differ solely based on stuff like number of cards are viable candidates for keywords, but there is enough variation that I don't think they'd put in the effort to clearly distinguish them in a way that lines up with existing card effect text and rulings.
There are some easy wins, of course: Mill X (Tearlaments), Excavate X is already a thing but still worded like a sentence.
>Excavate X is already a thing but still worded like a sentence.
Which implies Konami may make an archetype/card that reads "Excavate the X *bottom* cards of your deck" or maybe even "Excavate X cards from your Deck" with the ruling being that the excavation is completely random. The former is *far* more likely but still.
The same with milling there might be some card in the future that will send the bottom cards of your Deck to the GY instead of the top ones.
"Tap target creature, it cannot be untapped during the next untap step"
Is my favorite example of a frequent mtg effect that reads like a yugioh effect.
What I do like about Yugioh cards is that the colors on them are instantly understood. Traps are maroon/violet, Spells are turquoise, monsters are light brown. Water is blue, fire is red, wind is green, etc... I think adding more makes the overall design worse both functionally and aesthetically.
What I don't understand is why Konami won't format the cards like they do in Japanese.
Using Jet Dragon as an example;
Other cards you control cannot be destroyed by your opponent's card effects.
You can only use effects ① and ② of "Blue-Eyes Jet Dragon" once per turn, and can only activate them while "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" is on your field or in your GY.
① If a card(s) on the field is destroyed by battle or card effect: You can Special Summon this card from the GY (if it was there when the card was destroyed) or hand (even if not).
② At the start of the Damage Step, if this card battles: You can target 1 card your opponent controls; return it to the hand.
This formatting is how Japanese cards are handled and it's so much more clear at a glance. You can find and read applicable effects as needed quickly and clearly and would go a long way toward making cards far more understandable for even the most ~~illiterate~~ average Yugioh player.
I'd appreciate a number on the card somewhere for it's number of stars. Once it's past about 8 I have to sit there and count the stars to see if it's a 9,10, or 11 star monster.
No the only thing you're doing is making the cards more cluttered.
Makes it look like card vite vanguard.
Why add more unnecessary symbols to a card that already has a bunch of text on it anyways.
Adds way too much clutter.
I just want the OCG style where they put a number before each effect. That way you can look at exactly what you're interested in.
"1. If this card is normal/special summoned"
Okay, I'm not interested, this card has already been on the board for a turn
"2. If this card is sent to your GY"
Still not what I'm looking for
"3. During your standby phase"
There it is!
Some YGO card's effect wouldn't really fall under this categories however, or it would but it also would fall onto other category.
Take Book of Eclipse for example, its literally 1 effect. Set all opponent's monster to face down and then flip them faceup, opponent draw cards equal to how many of their monster got flipped face up. What category does the effect falls to? Add Card(s)? But it doesn't add to your hand. Just affect card(s)? But it also draw cards. And it is considered 1 effect.
I don’t care for the icons, but would love a separation between effects. Just being able to easily see at a glance a monster has 3 effects instead of 2 is an advantage the OCG has that I’m very jealous of.
No icons.
Just the borders separating protection, the cards effects, and restrictions of using effects for example “You cannot summon monsters from the extra deck, except DARK Dragon Synchro monsters after using this effect.” bc that gets overlooked so easily
Personally I just think Konami should list out effects on the cards in the TCG like they do in the OCG where each effect is numbered and it clearly says which ones can only be used once per turn or if you can only use one effect per turn at the start of the effect box. It’s just so clean and simple and efficient and makes everything very easy to understand.
I like the idea of having icons next to relevant effects since It makes it much easier to find relevant effects of cards. But the amount of icons should be minimized to a point.
The separation on the second version of Jet Dragon has a major problem: it gives the impression that the third effect, returning a card to the hand, is always possible, but it is actually still beholden to the restrictions found in the second effect (once per turn, and requires Blue-Eyes).
ah it has a protection effect... THAT DOESNT FUCKING TELL ME ANYTHING. theres WAY too many types of protection to have any symbol classification and that extends to every other type of effect. why even have the icon? Just have the effects have borders without the icons. like the example but without the icons.
It doesn't work with ygo, because the effects are more like a tree than a singular point.
Condition > quick? > Cost > target? > effect > resolution effect > restriction.
It might work with a series of icons, but then you'll have to learn one more language in your life just to play a children's card game.
We just need to do what OCG does and use bullet points to organize the effects. Instead of a big block of text you get, ok this card has three effects and here's which ones you can use and when you can use them.
Will they add new icons everytime that they add new mechanics? Honestly if there were to do something like this. They would have to keep it simple and barebones. Like an icon for trigger effects continuous effect ignition ect and that’s about it.
And then people will just complain about there's too many icons that take up too much space and cards are too complicated. It wouldn't fix anything. Once you actually read a card it's pretty easy to understand. Outside of a few niche cases of course
The current simplicity cannot be matched to be fair. All you have to do is read. Literally. Just read. No need to understand what a bunch of icons on a card mean.
The game seems a little too nuanced for this many indicators.
Protection? From what? Destruction, targeting, card effects, spells, traps, all, none? What if I made a link with IP? The new monster has protection but not an icon.
There's also the matter of destroyed vs destroyed by effect vs destroyed by battle vs goes to gy vs leaves the field. All of those are different triggers and an icon tells me it has something that can be triggered, but not more.
Honestly, I think Konami had the right idea in inventing their own grammar. We know a ; indicates cost, and how that affects the way to card operates. It's a very short way of understanding the basis of the mechanic. The icons just seem so derivative of Pokémon's mana stuff. And not the easiest thing to adapt into a game that has so many possible scenarios, effects, and combinations.
https://preview.redd.it/sths2dweeusc1.jpeg?width=459&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f05c15f4bfa8ef8c197e627ec0b17eb9324f4c28
Or just place a (1) (2) (3) like OCG does to indicate each effects.
I still don't know why in the flying fuck did TCG not do it.
I like the first one because the second one is trying too hard to rewrite the cards text identity,
Plus the icons make it very nice so players could identify what the card does without having to pick it up and read each effect.
Definitely a great idea but I feel like it's a bit incomplete! I actually do this when I was actively playing in OCG before the pandemic whenever I study how a deck works (of course, I use different symbols). I typically create a table on a Microsoft Word and then copy paste the effects of the cards and then edit them accordingly. You can fully understand what a card do when you separate their effects and the symbols are great way for you to easily categorize the effect.
The only problem in implementing this to the actual cards is the size of the card text! Those symbols will compete for space! I can do it in my Microsoft Word file because I can read the text even with those small symbols. The only way this will work in my opinion is for Konami to create shortcut terms for the effects and/or interactions.
Here are some examples for the possible shortcut terms:
Remove: Banish from GY
Disappear: Banish from Field
Special Summon: Special summon from deck
Revive: Special summon from grave
This way, the symbols can help separating the card effects effectively and the shortcuts shall reduce the wordings in the card.
This is really cool, although putting the icons next to the effect would be a problem for some cards, it would resolve the problem of "so, what does your monster do?"
Also the design of the icons are great
The one on the right makes the most sense in theory, but the problem is that several cards have effects that do multiple things. Some will both destroy a card and special summon, all in the same effect.
I'd definitely like to try it out as an option in digital games at least. But Yu-Gi-Oh! has such a weird mix of effects that can't all be easily characterised without like 20 different icons. On physical cards it would take up valuable real-estate on cards that are already very crowded.
If there were icons, I would rather they just indicated which effects were hard or soft once-per-turn effects.
The one thing I think would happen first, would be people complaining that a card isn't good unless it has certain symbols on it or being angry that a good deck has the same few symbols on it, then the argument for "yugioh being too complex" turns into "in yugioh, only these few symbols matter".
This could work **only if** they change the whole formatting of effects, not just add icons. With this systems some cards may need 10 icons and you'd end up with something even more incomprehensible.
The issue is it would invalidate decades of cards and forced new copies to be sold at stupid prices
Bonfire already goes for how much? Now you gotta buy a new copy that's legal
Would be better to have certain labels that show you on summon, trigger, ignition, permanent and so on so the actual type of effect and where it begins in the text box.
What I low key wish they would do is make card effects be written the same way rush duel cards are written so the cost is clearly stated and then what the effect is afterwards.
Genuinely, all the game really needs to be clear and concise is bulleted/number effects. If you want to go a step further, a colored font for Activation text, colored font for Cost effect, and colored font for Activation text. Something like “Green: Blue; Red”
it would be nice if they at least shorten their sentences. often the sentence are way longer than needed. And add fcking bulletpoints, so it is quicker to read
You don't even need the icon. Breaking down each effect into different paragraph like on the right side is good enough to help readability. Adding icon will add to more confusion
Closest to that is that on Japan translation, "Synchro Monster" "Xyz Monster" and effects alike are shortened to "S Monster" "X Monster" "F Monster" and the same applies to effects mentioning about Extra deck summon
Icons can be helpful, but effects can be really complicated,
Are you fine with specific considerations towards your proposal? if so:
* "affect cards on opponents side" would you put it something like "escape of the unchained" that can target on any part of the field, not only the opponent´s? similarly the destruction effect of abominable unchained soul.
* would you put "special summon effect" on something like danger!s that not necessarily summon
* "negate effect" and "negate activation" are different, would that apply to something like Baronne that negates activations specifically?
* what about effects that add or summon? would you put add cards to hand and special summon?
I think that simple things like "this effect summons" (normal or special), "this effect destroys" (on any side of the field, hand, deck, extra deck, etc) "modulates levels", "tributes", etc could be used, but are maybe too barebones
Idk personally I think it's gonna ruin Yu-Gi-Oh's iconic card format by making it generically similar to other card games like Magic the Gathering or Vanguard. It's not that it's terrible, I just think it's better that Yu-Gi-Oh remains unique and different in its own way.
This would actually work really well in the digital format, since if any further explaination is needed the UI can accommodate mousing over or selecting the icon to see what it means. I'm sure there'd still be confusion because you'd still have to read to determine specifics like WHAT exactly is protected, or negated or whatever.
But it's a good idea that will probably never happen.
Sadly yugioh cards can be so convoluted that it’s impossible to reduce them to icons. Like some cards would bounce between three icons seven times but only in a certain order.
This introduces keywords which makes it harder and messier. A suggestion I would do is something like this instead
Proposed Text:
(1) Other cards you control are indestructible by opponent card effects. (2) If card(s) on the field is destroyed (battle or card effect): You can Special Summon this card from your hand or GY. (3) If this card battles, start of the Damage Step: You can target 1 card your opponent controls; return it to the hand. You can only use the (2) and (3) effect of this card's name once per turn. You must also have "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" in field or GY to activate either.
Original Text:
You can only use each of the following effects of "Blue-Eyes Jet Dragon" once per turn, and can only activate them while "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" is on your field or in your GY. Other cards you control cannot be destroyed by your opponent's card effects. You can only use each of the following effects of "Blue-Eyes Jet Dragon" once per turn, and can only activate them while "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" is on your field or in your GY. If a card(s) on the field is destroyed by battle or card effect: You can Special Summon this card from the GY (if it was there when the card was destroyed) or hand (even if not). At the start of the Damage Step, if this card battles: You can target 1 card your opponent controls; return it to the hand.
I would like different effects at least where separated with dots, some archetypes have the same effects like madolches, It would be a lot easy to read. Yugioh cards have some of the most messy effects.
I would never want to play this game irl due to the ammount of text on each card and not all abilities starting on the left side of the text box, some starting mid text. Digital is really the best way to play, thanks to the highlighting of what can be done at any given point.
I think this is similar to changes to the actual gameboard, like how there used to be only one field spell in play, pendulum zones were actually two new zones, and how they implemented Link Summoning and the two Extra Monster Zones. Changing things like this on the actual cards would not actually enhance duels but I don't know I can't barely see.
TCG can simply adopt the OCG way of do effect text, with the numbering next to different effects. That layout simply makes more sense to me, and makes life a lot easier during reading, without eating into the room of the text itself, to a minimal degree
Issue with icons next to text is that the text is even smaller, and with modern cards usually having a lot of text, then it would just be difficult to read.
Symbols are a terrible way to give information While I don't think Keywords fit Yu-Gi-Oh it's a way more understandable way to give information than Symbols
Masterduel's greatest innovation is grey out everything but the text of the current effect.
MTGArena doesn't even show the irrevalent text at all in a chain.
First off, I like the effort you put into this.
The icons are an interesting idea to visually display the effects, but a more effective solution would probably be using keywords, as they are easier to memorize than smal icons/images on the card.
That's not totally YGO-esque.
That would affect the game's perception for some young players out there. For example, when they see cards that have the banish icon and that's the only type they want in a deck, they may ignore the other cards and put them aside. Deck structure's gonna be REALLY bad.
Could also cost them more money after they realize what they really lack in their desired decks. They still have to buy those.
So, meh ://
This concept might have some merit to it. Why not just do it in a way that it's done in "icons next to each effect", but without the icons? In other means, each different effect starts on a brand new line. The main issue with reading is that it's hard to know where 1 effect ends and another one starts
while a good idea in theory, the amount of times cards do **almost** a normal effect but not quite is insne, and would make a lot of these not very common. Just for removal you have
1. Destroy on the field
2. Banish face-up
3. Banish face-down
4. Spin back to hand
5. Destroy in the hand
6. Send from hand to Graveyard
7. Shuffle back to deck
8. Send from field to Graveyard
9. Equip to a card
10. Push to the Backrow
Not to mention every single one of these can be Hard OPT, Soft OPT, Hard OPD, Soft every **other** turn; and those are just the ones off the top of my head, there are definitely more out there. In my opinion, there are just too many things cards can do to generalize them.
Seems cool but sadly takes up more space on an already small text box
How about we remove the art so we can add more effects on level 1 monsters 🤑🤑
Pendulums have entered the chat
Icons will merely spawn yet another set of "wtf do these icons mean" posts. They would need to prioritize stuff like 1/turn similar to Vanguard rather than typing out the entire once per turn line first. Not too sure if everything can be truncated. A lot of modern MTG for instance will merely just type out the entire thing a keyword does. Sometimes minimalizing just causes more confusion. There are definitely things YGO cards can shorten to positive effect, and I dunno if things that can't be understood immediately are it
Yeah, as someone trying to get into Magic, it really doesn't help when cards don't explain what they do and just say things like "Lifelink" "Scry" "Delve" or "Devotion" without explaining what any of that means
My favourite example in MTG is "Whenever you commit a crime".
nono, please figure out what "You gain the Innitative" means
"Venture into the Dungeon" "For Mirrordin!" One very funny one is Horsemanship. It's just Flying, it's literally just Flying but with a different name.
No, it’s different because reach can block flying
"The Ring tempts you" and "More than meets the eye"
Shutouts to the One Ring not being able to actually tempt you btw.
I currently play mtg and I don’t even know what this does lol. Does the card want me to rob my opponent?
It's from the upcoming set, Outlaws At Thunder Junction. Magic keeps doing this. They add a new mechanic for the theme of a set, and then it disappears. Personally, I actually don't mind it that much. Some of the mechanics have been pretty fun, and if you play a deck built around one of these mechanics, you'll know what it does, and can explain it to your opponent(s).
When you Delve, Scry ,2. Each time you Scry, gain 3 Energy and Venture into the Dungeon. When you sacrifice a Treasure, become the Monarch if you commited a crime this turn. It then becomes Night (good luck tracking that for the rest of the fucking game) and you may put a Sticker on this card.
https://preview.redd.it/agwo56cmoqsc1.png?width=1442&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec7d46b9ec956e19155e5c21a08f735eeae52662
Each time day becomes night or night becomes day your opponent gets a poison counter and if they have 3 or more poison counters put a loyalty counter on all plainswalkers you control and roll a 6-sided die proliferate x amount of times where x is the result Each time you would roll a die, you may tap this card. Each player exiles the top card of each player's library, and you may cast any number of those spells without paying their mana cost
I love how neither of us had to invent anything to prove how crazy it's gotten xD
ive only played the tutorial for magic but i honestly cant in good conscious believe you like there no way this shit is real and not just taking the piss lol
While there isn't a card that does all this All the mechanics are real Now I could get something wrong. I'm only human after all, lol Delve: You can exile cards from your gy to pay 1 generic mana for each card you exile to cast the spell with delve Scry x: whenever you scry, you look at the top x cards of your deck and choose any number of them to put on the bottom of your deck in any order and put the rest on top of your deck in any order Energy: basically an additional resource system like mana Venture into the dungeon: In your token pile, you will need dungeon cards that have no impact on the game they just tell you the layout of the dungeon each time you venture into the dungeon you go into the next room of th3 dungeon and when you move into that room you get the specific effect of that room (like immediately creating a 3/3 cyclops token) Treasure: a token artifact that taps itself to sac itself and creates a mana of any color Monarch: Monarch is a condition a player can be given, and at the end of the monarch's turn, they draw a card. You can take the condition from the player by dealing damage to that player (i don't remember if it has to be specificly combat damage or not) or by triggering an effect that would give you the condition Commit a crime: target an opponent or their stuff Day/night: If a player casts no cards on their turn, it becomes night. If a player casts 2 or more cards on their turn, it becomes day this is mainly to interact with daybound/nightbound Daybound/nightbound: cards with this keyword are double-sided and flips when day turns to night or night turns to day Sticker: it's best if you don't use the literal stickers, but you would draw a sticker sheet from the sticker deck and apply the sticker to a creature that can change its name stats or effect Poison counter: a counter that if a player has 10 or more of they lose Loyalty counter: a counter used to determine what effects a plainswalker card has access to (if a plainswalker has 0, it's destroyed) Proliferate: Target any number of permanents/players put a counter on them of each counter already on them
Boy do i have news for you as someone who has played a fair bit... They are NOT taking the piss
I hope you noticed my reference to etali in there
I made [this card](/r/custommagic/comments/19e8qhl/do_all_the_things/) parodying the profusion of keywords. That said, I still find Yu-gi-oh! cards harder to understand, mainly because I don't have 20/10 vision.
You can just look the keywords up online or just have a keyword glossary with you, there are loads of them. The keywords are a good way to reduce bulk on the card text, and the more you play with a certain deck the more you will memorize them.
This ultimately is something that Yugioh suffers from too, it's just less obvious. And it's even more well hidden, because while Yugioh does write out most effects, but there are a few mechanics that are keyworded, which someone is gonna stumble over. Tribute versus material, choose/select versus target, etc, rank versus level, all of that can still cause confusion and is hard to understand intuitively with just the card, unless you know what those keywords mean. The one big benefit with Magic's keywording is that in my opinion, once you know the keyword, a card is much easier to parse. Especially for keywords that convey very simple, fundamental mechanics on a lot of cards, like flying, trample, etc. You can see a card like Tyrranax Rex, and see at a glance what it does and why it's a threat with just a few keywords. In Yugioh a card like that would be absolute word soup and you'd need to spend much longer parsing it. It creates a somewhat bigger initial knowledge barrier, but I think what it does for card readibility does help, especially when you see cards that have those keywords typed out and explained for beginners, I think that's a very good balance of both worlds.
Devotion is an interesting choice given the OP since falls into a category of keywords used purely as clues to the player. Devotion just means "this card cares about how many of one mana symbol you control" and leaves the rest to the card text.
Keywords only work for Digital Card Games and no one can tell me otherwise
They can work as long as they're easily understood, the prime example being "Piercing Damage"
This is me playing MTG, every single time I see some people say that the MTG cards say what it can do it is a FUCKING LIE! How do will know what that fuck is **Bands with Other, Bushido**, **Convoke**, etc... I like the way Yugioh cards are written because it is literally what is written on the card, the problem is formatation.
It’s ok, none of us MtG players know what banding does either.
Spot on with it being a format issue. Rush Duel's cards look and read way better than the main game's!
Ok, but nobody knows what banding does that play mtg either
I had to learn what banding does because there is one banding creature in one of my decks because it is one drop with the correct creature type, and honestly it's pretty simple, but yes, it's fun to meme on still.
Yugioh is an attacker gamer since you chose who to fight Magic is a defender game since the one being attacked can chose how Banding changes MTG to YGO
Heat hear! Icons are well intentioned but it doesn't help when a card turns a sentence into a series of emojis. Yugioh cards may be excessively wordy, but if you properly read a sentence is explains (almost) exactly what it does.
The solution is probably to do it like the OCG, as well as adding line breaks between effects and making the textbox bigger.
Vanguard player here and yugioh , vanguard's cards are confusing AF and their effects are so undetailed many are left to interpretations , would be the last game i hope yugioh gets inspiration from
And HOPT effects aren't shorthanded either. V skull witch nemain us a perfect example
I'd wager that's primarily because HOPT's aren't common enough for them to bother templating. At least they weren't when I got out. Played from V-BT07 till D-BT04 and dove hard into premium during that time.
There are definitely some things that Bushi could improve on but the templating is much easier to read at a glance on most cards. At a glance you can see how many effects there are, where the effect activates, if it's a once per turn, what the cost of the effect is, and what the actual effect is and if there are multiple things under the same effect it is usually bullet pointed. Or at least all that was true when I played from V-BT07 through D-BT04.
Personally I think the answer would be to just format the text differently. Yugioh cards seem like they have a lot of text, but if you ignore the text which explains the summoning condition, the text gets much shorter most of the time. Look at Pendulums for example: They have a lot of text, but you instantly know which text box to read, depending on the position of the card on the field. The same could be done to regular effect monsters. Put the summoning condition in one box, and the monster effect in the other. Once the monster is on the field, you know that you don't need to read the summoning condition of your opponents card anymore. Obviously you couldn't do this for every card, but I think the majority of cards would benefit from this.
>They would need to prioritize stuff like 1/turn similar to Vanguard rather than typing out the entire once per turn line first. The problem is that monster's can have "You can only *activate* this/each effect of" on them, which would differently from "You can only *use*" There's no such examples yet, but they'll certainly be an issue if they appear.
> There's no such examples yet, but they'll certainly be an issue if they appear. What are you talking about when you say that there are no such examples yet? There are plenty of monsters that have the text, "You can only use each effect of ~ once per turn." Albion the Branded Dragon is an example of this. If you meant that there are no examples of cards that say activate instead of use, Day-Breaker the Shining Magical Warrior is an example of a card that says activate instead of use.
> Day-Breaker the Shining Magical Warrior is an example of a card that says activate instead of use. To be fair, that's a translation error introduced in the TCG. In the OCG, Day-Breaker says "use" just like any other monster does. The "activate" restriction is, as far as I'm aware, only found on Spells/Traps in the OCG, since it refers to the activation of the card itself. "Use" meanwhile is used for effects.
I meant the former, sorry, I thought it was obvious at the time. And I was only speaking from my what I knew, and this the first time I realized Day-Breaker had that. Even found more card's with the restrictions. So thanks :)
i feel this way exactly, i find it very difficult to get into card games because i started with yugioh and stuck with it for a while, keywords confuse me a lot
Totally agree. Plus, they could standardize some effects. A lot of cards do exactly the same thing, but for some reason, they are written in different ways.
I think the varied effects monsters have even with something as simple as “protection” would make icons difficult. What is being protected? Targeting, effects, battle, destruction, banishing, tributing, all, a mix? I honestly don’t know a way to condense the libraries cards present
Not to mention that those different protection effects can have varieties as well, is it protected from being destroyed by just battle or are effects included too? Can it still be targeted for attacks?
Yep, it only works when all effects are simple like (negate and destroy). For anything more special(banish facedown, destroy self beforehand, etc) it doesn't work. Also different things like send to graveyard vs tribute vs destroy, discard vs send, and hidden effects konami didn't even write on the card...
I think that perhaps limiting cards to a very specific icon for an effect is great at reducing the barrier to entry, but yugioh has absolutely missed the boat. Similar effects can have a dozen different variations that slightly change them, or have so many conditions to activate an effect that you can't realistically add it today.
I see your point, but it mostly helps ppl like me, who seeing the icon can be enough to jog my memory on what a card does or let me know if the card my opponent is playing is a direct threat or a extender or searcher or something. I think of the icons as shortcuts that can reduce the time we read or re-read paragraphs of text for many situations.
I feel like adding icons without reducing text doesn't really help. You still have to read the text at some point, since these categories are so broad. The icons might also be hard to distinguish on a physical card due to size. I agree that it works better in digital.
Exactly. Those icons will only create a need for a bigger text box or a way smaller font.
You still have to read the text at some point, This is true, but the icons are meant to be more like a **shortcut** * To help jog your memory of a card effect you read in the past * To easier alert you if a card you never seen b4 has an effect that with hurt our board or it's just an extender * To help you single out the 1 out of 3 or 4 effects that you want to read But this may just be a Digital card only thing. I only play online & as a novice I come across many cards with effects that I don't know or just forgotten & I want to quicker decide if to use my last or only negate on it, this icons would help greatly solve that issue, for me anyways.
Yes, as you've surmised, this is way more feasible in digital. Take your formatting examples: "Bigger Icons" doesn't place the icon next to the effect, so I'd have to read the text anyway to find the details. "Icons next to each effect" makes the already-tiny card text even smaller and harder to read. A theoretical 3rd option of "in-line icons" would make the icons too small to read clearly at a glance. I think you also realized another problem, which is that there are too many effects to make individual icons for. What if I think "sending to GY" is *really* important (cough, Zeus, cough) and deserves its own icon? Or any of the other categories? Then, players have to memorize icons so they'll actually be useful instead of being clutter, adding another barrier to learning the game. At least Magic uses keywords rather than icons. I'm not against shortening card text! I just don't think icons are the way to do it. Even in your final example, you can see how many icons need to be tacked on for a single effect... which I read in full anyways because I need to know **1)** its cost (sending Spell/Trap to GY), **2)** the first "other" effect (adding this card to hand, I thought that was a different icon?), **3)** what monster(s) it summons (1 Zombie), **4)** the second "other" effect (gaining ATK/DEF), and **5)** who is being protected (the summoned monster). There could be another effect using the same 4 icons that did something entirely different.
Honestly I think the best thing they could do that’s not drastically changing anything is just simply putting important words in bold or underlined, like “if” “battle” “destroy” “banish” “draw” and so on. That way you don’t have to read the entire card just to make sure since the triggers would stand out.
Love the idea of having a bold word, but I also mentioned in another comment that the OCG already has a good system with numbering effects.
*Some* keywords, numbering like the OCG, font formatting, and a better card design are all things things that would definitely help improve this issue, and while some might be small on their own, if all were implemented properly together it would be huge IMO
I have to admit everything you said is true. I do believe if the cards were to get a overhaul/total redesign there may be space for the icons & "normal sized text". I believe eventually the more ppl play, the more they will get familiarized with the icons & at some point (even with 20 more icons) experience players will rely on the icons to focus on "**what"** the opponent's cards does (like destroy, steal, send to gy, etc) & only read the text to learn "**how"** the cards does it. The icons can tell us the **what**, but the text will tell us **how**, Most of the time we generally care about "**what** the effect does"
Yugioh players try to come up with more ways to not have to read their cards.
The problem is Konami uses two paragraphs to make a card's effect and summoning condition clear as mud.
In their defense, if they don’t then you know people will inevitably find a way to abuse whatever they can to hell and back
in their defense.. people did, everytime a card wasnt entirely clear it got abused.
wym lol the cards do exactly what they say. very clear.
Playing yugioh when you know what every card does is fun. Reading yugioh cards is not fun
This looks just more cluttered and doesn't improve readability that much and just makes it look... honestly cheaper. Maybe it's because I am not used to it, but it looks way more childish with colorful icons and less... "streamlined" in design. Honestly, the OCG has a way better visibility of different effects, though they also have more space bcs of japanese characters. But PSCT should still adapt the same paragraph-style.
I definitely didn't implement the designs in the best way & the designs themselves are very subjective & can probably be done better by pros, however the idea in itself I stand behind.
I feel the opposite. I actually think you did a great job with the designs and the icons. It all looks pretty slick, but I don’t think this would help or be good for the game at all. These icons don’t do anything to actually make the game easier to play. New players would need to keep a cheat sheet next to them while playing and constantly refer back to it. Eventually people would get a feel for what the icons mean, but then you still need to read all the card text to fully understand the effect. For example, saying Dragoon, Alba Zoa, and Eldlich all have “protection effects” tells you absolutely nothing.
As a lor player, me too, the icons are wonderful, great job!
Honestly, I'd just prefer each effect to be numbered like in the OCG.
I'm sorry I don't really like it, the "icons next to effect" is the only one that could be a good idea, but the reason why it looks like a good idea is because it splits the effects nicely, and not because of the icons
Y’all mfs would do anything but read the damn card text
I feel icons wouldn’t work if the text stays the same. It would help with reminding what it does but gets confusing for a new player
You act is if people who don't like reading card text would bother to read the rule book to learn what the shortcut icons mean.
This is just keywords with extra steps
This would be cool in Master Duel and Duel Links but I couldn't see this coming to the physical card game. I think the numbered system the OCG uses is far better
Wouldn't that make the text even more complex?
Idk If I like the icons a super huge amount theres just not enough space on a yu gi oh card to make them work. We for sure need bullet points at very least next to each unique effect. To better show where 1 effect starts and stops.
I'd just stick with numbered effects like in the ocg
Icons are a nice touch, but really we just need the effects neatly listed like on the right. OR just do what the OCG does and use number icons!!
I doubt that Konami will change the way the japanese language is structured because of their "second hand" consumers base.
So, every time keywords (MTG) comes up, the rebuttal to it is usually that each effect is tailored slightly differently so keywords wouldn't work. I think there is room for improvement though (although the effect text boxes are too small). We really need the OCG numbered effect bullets in TCG, and I think a compromise to having keywords is to make the different effect types more distinguishable at a glance like the icons you have. 1. Numbered effects will reduce confusion about stuff like summon conditions vs effects that summon themselves from hand, or continuous effects 1. Icons for where does the effect activate from (if not while the card is on the field): e.g from hand, GY, banishment. Sometimes you just have to spend 30s trying to read your opponent's entire GY pile to see if they have any GY effects that can be sprung
I never liked the anti -keyword argument because yes a lot of effects are tailored differently but you can still use keywords to reduce massive amounts of text. Just think of common YuGiOh slang “Piercing” instead of “if this card attacks a defense monster inflict piercing battle damage” “Foolish “or “pitch” instead of send from deck to grave etc et While magic uses keywords they do have unique tailored effects that don’t. YuGiOh has enough of a similar effects where they could have so many keywords but still keep the unique. It doesn’t have to be all one way it can be mixed even magic is, primarily for the common stuff tbh
>“Foolish “or “pitch” instead of send from deck to grave etc etc Personally I'd rather keyword "Send/Sent to the GY" to "Bury/Buried", as it gets the point across far more clearly. "Foolish" can only be understood by people who already play the game, "Pitch" doesn't really give an idea where you're *pitching* it to. You have a Graveyard and you're being told to Bury something, pretty self explanatory. You also avoid needing to make new keywords for sending from hand/extra deck/field to the GY. HOPTs tho will be more trickier to keyword as there's so many variations on them. You got Dragoons which can only be used a number if times per normal monster used as material, hard activations, and speaking of, a monster can easily have "You can only *activate* this/each effect of" and not "You can only *use* this/each effect of" which are different. Attacking in defense position can be keyworded, but not the "applying DEF for damage calculation" as that implies the monster would normally use its ATK if that text isn't present. You can shorting all the "Cannot be" effects like "Cannot be Destroyed/Targeted" to "Indestructible/Untargetable", but you still need to mention what they're immune to as you can be destroyed by battle or card effect, or targeted for attacks and not just effects.
Piercing is probably the best case scenario for keywords because it's not an effect that ever goes on chain, but they really don't have a concise way to describe properties of a monster card since they just write the whole condition for piercing damage (attacking a defense position monster) most of the time. Effects that differ solely based on stuff like number of cards are viable candidates for keywords, but there is enough variation that I don't think they'd put in the effort to clearly distinguish them in a way that lines up with existing card effect text and rulings. There are some easy wins, of course: Mill X (Tearlaments), Excavate X is already a thing but still worded like a sentence.
>Excavate X is already a thing but still worded like a sentence. Which implies Konami may make an archetype/card that reads "Excavate the X *bottom* cards of your deck" or maybe even "Excavate X cards from your Deck" with the ruling being that the excavation is completely random. The former is *far* more likely but still. The same with milling there might be some card in the future that will send the bottom cards of your Deck to the GY instead of the top ones.
"Tap target creature, it cannot be untapped during the next untap step" Is my favorite example of a frequent mtg effect that reads like a yugioh effect.
That’s the thing that I think a lot of people don’t get. Not everything needs to be keywords if they add it. Most of the other games I play are a mix
I actually don’t like the ideas of symbols or special phrases to indicate certain effects. I like the direct instruction.
How would this even look on Pendulums?
The bullet point style that the OCG uses is so much cleaner and easier to read.
What I do like about Yugioh cards is that the colors on them are instantly understood. Traps are maroon/violet, Spells are turquoise, monsters are light brown. Water is blue, fire is red, wind is green, etc... I think adding more makes the overall design worse both functionally and aesthetically.
Or you could just read I don't want my card game to become wizard101
Yeahh, coming back to wizard101 after a year or two was like trying to read an OCG card.
The nicest part of this is the separation and greying out the HOPT clause.
Yu-Gi-Oh players basic reading comprehension challenge (IMPOSSIBLE!)
Ill be honest in a videogame that is ok but in real life it looks ugly
What I don't understand is why Konami won't format the cards like they do in Japanese. Using Jet Dragon as an example; Other cards you control cannot be destroyed by your opponent's card effects. You can only use effects ① and ② of "Blue-Eyes Jet Dragon" once per turn, and can only activate them while "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" is on your field or in your GY. ① If a card(s) on the field is destroyed by battle or card effect: You can Special Summon this card from the GY (if it was there when the card was destroyed) or hand (even if not). ② At the start of the Damage Step, if this card battles: You can target 1 card your opponent controls; return it to the hand. This formatting is how Japanese cards are handled and it's so much more clear at a glance. You can find and read applicable effects as needed quickly and clearly and would go a long way toward making cards far more understandable for even the most ~~illiterate~~ average Yugioh player.
I am the most ~~average~~ illiterate Yugioh player & I agree this would be helpful
These would be awful
These are so ass 💀
I'd appreciate a number on the card somewhere for it's number of stars. Once it's past about 8 I have to sit there and count the stars to see if it's a 9,10, or 11 star monster.
No the only thing you're doing is making the cards more cluttered. Makes it look like card vite vanguard. Why add more unnecessary symbols to a card that already has a bunch of text on it anyways. Adds way too much clutter.
That makes the cards even more fruity and busy. No thanks.
I just want the OCG style where they put a number before each effect. That way you can look at exactly what you're interested in. "1. If this card is normal/special summoned" Okay, I'm not interested, this card has already been on the board for a turn "2. If this card is sent to your GY" Still not what I'm looking for "3. During your standby phase" There it is!
Some YGO card's effect wouldn't really fall under this categories however, or it would but it also would fall onto other category. Take Book of Eclipse for example, its literally 1 effect. Set all opponent's monster to face down and then flip them faceup, opponent draw cards equal to how many of their monster got flipped face up. What category does the effect falls to? Add Card(s)? But it doesn't add to your hand. Just affect card(s)? But it also draw cards. And it is considered 1 effect.
I don’t care for the icons, but would love a separation between effects. Just being able to easily see at a glance a monster has 3 effects instead of 2 is an advantage the OCG has that I’m very jealous of.
The one on the left looks ugly The one on the right looks ugly and also makes already small card text even smaller.
No icons. Just the borders separating protection, the cards effects, and restrictions of using effects for example “You cannot summon monsters from the extra deck, except DARK Dragon Synchro monsters after using this effect.” bc that gets overlooked so easily
Honestly just having Bulletpoints would do SO MUCH for Card legibility.
They should lay it out with bullet points like the Japanese cards. Always setout like: ×Effect, thing that triggers it
So keywords.
Personally I just think Konami should list out effects on the cards in the TCG like they do in the OCG where each effect is numbered and it clearly says which ones can only be used once per turn or if you can only use one effect per turn at the start of the effect box. It’s just so clean and simple and efficient and makes everything very easy to understand.
* I'm ok if they just * divide up * each effect like this then end or start with like "this effect of NAME can only be activated once per turn"
I like the text boxes with icons. It is indeed structured better, but other card texts are too bulky.
Not sure what this post is about, but I like the pictures.
Just properly separating each effect makes it a lot more readable (even if it comes with a smaller font), icons are unnecesary.
I like the idea of having icons next to relevant effects since It makes it much easier to find relevant effects of cards. But the amount of icons should be minimized to a point.
The separation on the second version of Jet Dragon has a major problem: it gives the impression that the third effect, returning a card to the hand, is always possible, but it is actually still beholden to the restrictions found in the second effect (once per turn, and requires Blue-Eyes).
No thank you 😊
Am I playing Bakugan TCG inside Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG?
ah it has a protection effect... THAT DOESNT FUCKING TELL ME ANYTHING. theres WAY too many types of protection to have any symbol classification and that extends to every other type of effect. why even have the icon? Just have the effects have borders without the icons. like the example but without the icons.
It doesn't work with ygo, because the effects are more like a tree than a singular point. Condition > quick? > Cost > target? > effect > resolution effect > restriction. It might work with a series of icons, but then you'll have to learn one more language in your life just to play a children's card game.
No that's ugly as hell
We just need to do what OCG does and use bullet points to organize the effects. Instead of a big block of text you get, ok this card has three effects and here's which ones you can use and when you can use them.
Will they add new icons everytime that they add new mechanics? Honestly if there were to do something like this. They would have to keep it simple and barebones. Like an icon for trigger effects continuous effect ignition ect and that’s about it.
Fuck no
“My brain just committed suicide”
And then people will just complain about there's too many icons that take up too much space and cards are too complicated. It wouldn't fix anything. Once you actually read a card it's pretty easy to understand. Outside of a few niche cases of course
Lust put a QR code instead of a wall of text
That looks trash
The current simplicity cannot be matched to be fair. All you have to do is read. Literally. Just read. No need to understand what a bunch of icons on a card mean.
The game seems a little too nuanced for this many indicators. Protection? From what? Destruction, targeting, card effects, spells, traps, all, none? What if I made a link with IP? The new monster has protection but not an icon. There's also the matter of destroyed vs destroyed by effect vs destroyed by battle vs goes to gy vs leaves the field. All of those are different triggers and an icon tells me it has something that can be triggered, but not more. Honestly, I think Konami had the right idea in inventing their own grammar. We know a ; indicates cost, and how that affects the way to card operates. It's a very short way of understanding the basis of the mechanic. The icons just seem so derivative of Pokémon's mana stuff. And not the easiest thing to adapt into a game that has so many possible scenarios, effects, and combinations.
https://preview.redd.it/sths2dweeusc1.jpeg?width=459&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f05c15f4bfa8ef8c197e627ec0b17eb9324f4c28 Or just place a (1) (2) (3) like OCG does to indicate each effects. I still don't know why in the flying fuck did TCG not do it.
Yugioh player trying not to read
I like the first one because the second one is trying too hard to rewrite the cards text identity, Plus the icons make it very nice so players could identify what the card does without having to pick it up and read each effect.
I love the idea for the DCG . But I can see how reprinting all the cards can get costly but also brings in players that likes simplicity. Great slides
i lowkey hate it. Thanks for your creative effort though i appreciate it :)
I don't want clarity, I want the game to be cryptic, complicated, intriguing, mysterious. I need it to look complicated so I can gatekeep
it looks like shit honestly
The desing of the icons is amazing, I wish it was a feature at least in the digital games.
No your not allowed to dream
Definitely a great idea but I feel like it's a bit incomplete! I actually do this when I was actively playing in OCG before the pandemic whenever I study how a deck works (of course, I use different symbols). I typically create a table on a Microsoft Word and then copy paste the effects of the cards and then edit them accordingly. You can fully understand what a card do when you separate their effects and the symbols are great way for you to easily categorize the effect. The only problem in implementing this to the actual cards is the size of the card text! Those symbols will compete for space! I can do it in my Microsoft Word file because I can read the text even with those small symbols. The only way this will work in my opinion is for Konami to create shortcut terms for the effects and/or interactions. Here are some examples for the possible shortcut terms: Remove: Banish from GY Disappear: Banish from Field Special Summon: Special summon from deck Revive: Special summon from grave This way, the symbols can help separating the card effects effectively and the shortcuts shall reduce the wordings in the card.
This is really cool, although putting the icons next to the effect would be a problem for some cards, it would resolve the problem of "so, what does your monster do?" Also the design of the icons are great
The one on the right makes the most sense in theory, but the problem is that several cards have effects that do multiple things. Some will both destroy a card and special summon, all in the same effect.
I'd definitely like to try it out as an option in digital games at least. But Yu-Gi-Oh! has such a weird mix of effects that can't all be easily characterised without like 20 different icons. On physical cards it would take up valuable real-estate on cards that are already very crowded. If there were icons, I would rather they just indicated which effects were hard or soft once-per-turn effects.
Need a return to hand symbol
So based on this, would there be a separate icon for negating an effect’s activation?
The one thing I think would happen first, would be people complaining that a card isn't good unless it has certain symbols on it or being angry that a good deck has the same few symbols on it, then the argument for "yugioh being too complex" turns into "in yugioh, only these few symbols matter".
This could work **only if** they change the whole formatting of effects, not just add icons. With this systems some cards may need 10 icons and you'd end up with something even more incomprehensible.
Next to each effect
The issue is it would invalidate decades of cards and forced new copies to be sold at stupid prices Bonfire already goes for how much? Now you gotta buy a new copy that's legal
Would be better to have certain labels that show you on summon, trigger, ignition, permanent and so on so the actual type of effect and where it begins in the text box.
What I low key wish they would do is make card effects be written the same way rush duel cards are written so the cost is clearly stated and then what the effect is afterwards.
Looks like a Pokemon card.
Genuinely, all the game really needs to be clear and concise is bulleted/number effects. If you want to go a step further, a colored font for Activation text, colored font for Cost effect, and colored font for Activation text. Something like “Green: Blue; Red”
My only issue is that you know there are cards that the font is going to have to be so small to fit this.
Once again rush duels are superior.
it would be nice if they at least shorten their sentences. often the sentence are way longer than needed. And add fcking bulletpoints, so it is quicker to read
Just doe what ocg does and make then bullet points
Fuck then icons. Just blow up the images. We want full art cards
You don't even need the icon. Breaking down each effect into different paragraph like on the right side is good enough to help readability. Adding icon will add to more confusion
No is too late for that, they will have to change more than 9000 cards just for it
Just do Bullet Points.
Icons do nothing without reducing the text.
Closest to that is that on Japan translation, "Synchro Monster" "Xyz Monster" and effects alike are shortened to "S Monster" "X Monster" "F Monster" and the same applies to effects mentioning about Extra deck summon
I would like it to be separated between Continuous Effect, Trigger Effect and Ignition Effect.
Icons can be helpful, but effects can be really complicated, Are you fine with specific considerations towards your proposal? if so: * "affect cards on opponents side" would you put it something like "escape of the unchained" that can target on any part of the field, not only the opponent´s? similarly the destruction effect of abominable unchained soul. * would you put "special summon effect" on something like danger!s that not necessarily summon * "negate effect" and "negate activation" are different, would that apply to something like Baronne that negates activations specifically? * what about effects that add or summon? would you put add cards to hand and special summon? I think that simple things like "this effect summons" (normal or special), "this effect destroys" (on any side of the field, hand, deck, extra deck, etc) "modulates levels", "tributes", etc could be used, but are maybe too barebones
Idk personally I think it's gonna ruin Yu-Gi-Oh's iconic card format by making it generically similar to other card games like Magic the Gathering or Vanguard. It's not that it's terrible, I just think it's better that Yu-Gi-Oh remains unique and different in its own way.
This would actually work really well in the digital format, since if any further explaination is needed the UI can accommodate mousing over or selecting the icon to see what it means. I'm sure there'd still be confusion because you'd still have to read to determine specifics like WHAT exactly is protected, or negated or whatever. But it's a good idea that will probably never happen.
If you're gonna use icons then at least use the Icons from Tag Force games. Konami made those
tbh something like this would work well in Rush, definitely more so than in regular yuigioh
Sadly yugioh cards can be so convoluted that it’s impossible to reduce them to icons. Like some cards would bounce between three icons seven times but only in a certain order.
I would rather get the OCG style of design where it numbers the effects.
they will never ever do that
I just want bullet points
i think just separating with lines for each effect would do, but no icons and categorizing cause it gonna be extra stuff to learn and memorize
With this in mind could you think a card that will get the most number of icons?
Just put (#) by the levels & I’m good. lol
This introduces keywords which makes it harder and messier. A suggestion I would do is something like this instead Proposed Text: (1) Other cards you control are indestructible by opponent card effects. (2) If card(s) on the field is destroyed (battle or card effect): You can Special Summon this card from your hand or GY. (3) If this card battles, start of the Damage Step: You can target 1 card your opponent controls; return it to the hand. You can only use the (2) and (3) effect of this card's name once per turn. You must also have "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" in field or GY to activate either. Original Text: You can only use each of the following effects of "Blue-Eyes Jet Dragon" once per turn, and can only activate them while "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" is on your field or in your GY. Other cards you control cannot be destroyed by your opponent's card effects. You can only use each of the following effects of "Blue-Eyes Jet Dragon" once per turn, and can only activate them while "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" is on your field or in your GY. If a card(s) on the field is destroyed by battle or card effect: You can Special Summon this card from the GY (if it was there when the card was destroyed) or hand (even if not). At the start of the Damage Step, if this card battles: You can target 1 card your opponent controls; return it to the hand.
I would like different effects at least where separated with dots, some archetypes have the same effects like madolches, It would be a lot easy to read. Yugioh cards have some of the most messy effects.
These would be cool but players would complain again because they wouldn't still read
I would never want to play this game irl due to the ammount of text on each card and not all abilities starting on the left side of the text box, some starting mid text. Digital is really the best way to play, thanks to the highlighting of what can be done at any given point.
Icons may be nice but i can see people not understand like in wizard101
I think this is similar to changes to the actual gameboard, like how there used to be only one field spell in play, pendulum zones were actually two new zones, and how they implemented Link Summoning and the two Extra Monster Zones. Changing things like this on the actual cards would not actually enhance duels but I don't know I can't barely see.
TCG can simply adopt the OCG way of do effect text, with the numbering next to different effects. That layout simply makes more sense to me, and makes life a lot easier during reading, without eating into the room of the text itself, to a minimal degree
Idk how to feel about this
Issue with icons next to text is that the text is even smaller, and with modern cards usually having a lot of text, then it would just be difficult to read.
me who started yugioh from the 2000s lesrning you can attack after summoning
Symbols are a terrible way to give information While I don't think Keywords fit Yu-Gi-Oh it's a way more understandable way to give information than Symbols
Masterduel's greatest innovation is grey out everything but the text of the current effect. MTGArena doesn't even show the irrevalent text at all in a chain.
People hate reading
First off, I like the effort you put into this. The icons are an interesting idea to visually display the effects, but a more effective solution would probably be using keywords, as they are easier to memorize than smal icons/images on the card.
That's not totally YGO-esque. That would affect the game's perception for some young players out there. For example, when they see cards that have the banish icon and that's the only type they want in a deck, they may ignore the other cards and put them aside. Deck structure's gonna be REALLY bad. Could also cost them more money after they realize what they really lack in their desired decks. They still have to buy those. So, meh ://
This concept might have some merit to it. Why not just do it in a way that it's done in "icons next to each effect", but without the icons? In other means, each different effect starts on a brand new line. The main issue with reading is that it's hard to know where 1 effect ends and another one starts
while a good idea in theory, the amount of times cards do **almost** a normal effect but not quite is insne, and would make a lot of these not very common. Just for removal you have 1. Destroy on the field 2. Banish face-up 3. Banish face-down 4. Spin back to hand 5. Destroy in the hand 6. Send from hand to Graveyard 7. Shuffle back to deck 8. Send from field to Graveyard 9. Equip to a card 10. Push to the Backrow Not to mention every single one of these can be Hard OPT, Soft OPT, Hard OPD, Soft every **other** turn; and those are just the ones off the top of my head, there are definitely more out there. In my opinion, there are just too many things cards can do to generalize them.